He was WAY Over on RAW in Tulsa trust me i was there (not sure how it came off on TV) but live he got a GREAT pop. Please tell me i read that wrong your comparing JOMO to Chavo. Chavo's good but he will never be a world champ he had a chance when Eddide died but WWE gave it to REY
Wohoo he's over in a state. Let's give him the WWE championship and top face of the company. Cena is more over but screw that. Because John Morrison is over in Tulsa!
Don't get me wrong. Sure he's over in Tulsa. But big deal? He's over somewhat in any state. He's getting cheers and all that. But it's nowhere near the point where he's worth a WWE championship. He's still boring on the microphone. He's still inconsistent in his in-ring ability. That's not a world champion to me. That's a mid-carder at best.
You might've forgotten someone, Eddie Guerrero. I'm not comparing him to Chavo. Because as you clearly did read it wrong, I stated that Rey Mysterio's success is due to Eddie Guerrero's death. So John Morrison would need someone close to him to die to get over. And that guy close to him would have to be more over.
Can't argue with edge being a better ring competitor. At this point he's leaps and bounds ahead of Morrison, in every aspect. But he's also like 6 years older than John.
True that. But Edge was much better during his young days in his career. Have you seen the match he had with Owen Hart in the 90's? Sure Owen as well as Bret could make others look good. But Edge shows greatness back then. And he hadn't even been with the company for 2 years. John is still inconsistent. And he's been there for 7!
I never said that John was more over than Jeff now. But Jeff wasn't as over back when he was doing things for the tag division and as a singles mid-carder. He rose up the ranks, paid his dues, improved every aspect of him and his character and he worked his way to the main event. Which is what Morrison is in the process of doing.
That's true. But even with that at this point of Morrison's career Jeff was still more over than Morrison is currently. I mean Jeff was one of the biggest guy's in the company back then. A few social appearances here and there and Cena could've gotten out of the top dog picture. Morrison will never, and I repeat,
never get to that level. I am very confident in this.
Of course we could argue about it... it's a discussion forum, isn't that the point.
Of course Prax, but we got lives as well, things to look into, threads to post, threads to reply to. Don't you agree?
And I'm no wrestler, but I'd be willing to bet that a senton is easier to hit than a corkscrew moonsault off the second rope. it's Morrison's fault for having a difficult finisher, but at least he's being creative. And I think it's that aspect that makes the two so comparable.
Of course it's gonna be easier. I mean holy shit look how he twists himself? But A.J Styles has managed to do it fairly well the few times I've seen it done. As well as Jeff actually managed to do the sentons from amazing spots.
Creative is arguable. Seeing as it is basically a rip-off. But I do agree. I give him the hats off to perform it. But at least perform it properly thank you? He managed to do it in the past. Now he's slowing down.
I don't think there are that many moves that are harder than a corkscrew moonsault, especially one off the second rope. Again, it's his fault for picking something so difficult, but you have to give him credit for at least trying to be original. And frankly he's only had the finisher for about a year or a year and a half. Sometimes it takes years to perfect moves.
Sure it's one of the harder ones. At least you could assume it. But there's a lot of moves that are either hard to sell, or hard to properly perform. Look at Justin Gabriel, at least he hits flawless every time. I'd sure as hell rather try and perform Morrison's finisher than Justin's. Same goes for Evan Bourne.
And your point about Jeff having more experience proves my point... Jeff was a jobber for a long time before he finally broke out in the last couple of years. It's arguable that Morrison has accomplished just as much if not more, considering the time each has spent in WWE.
Arguable. Morrison doesn't have half the tag team championships that Jeff Hardy has held alongside Matt in the first part of their respected careers. Much less the fact that he's an European champion, light heavyweight champion, both championships active in the period of time that Jeff was in WWE that Morrison was as well (5-7 years period). Jeff Hardy was a 4 time intercontinental champion.
And yes it was around Jeff's later period, but he has also gathered one hell of a list of championships after his TNA return. Which is where it would make his period with WWE on the superior length of years to John.
All in all I seriously doubt that by the end of their respected careers in WWE, that Jeff Hardy won't be the superior one still in championships, accomplishments and legacy.
Really? Cause I have... plenty of times...
Mind you I became a fan in 2009. I haven't exactly gone back and watched every single promo Jeff has put on. So I have yet to see him butcher a sentence.
Well I meant since his time on RAW. I don't really count Ted/Morrison because it's just kinda there. I don't think there's a plan for a blow-off other than a raw match.
Very well.
And who knows. There could be plans for it. There could not be. Only time will tell for that. I mean We've seen it before with Miz and R-Truth, I didn't expect it to turn into a Pay Per View match. Same with R-Truth and Ted DiBiase.
My point is that regardless of feud situation, they find ways to get him on the show. They put him and Truth against ShowMiz to get him a match at Wrestlemania, and they gave them the opener. Other than his recent injury, he's pretty much been on every raw and now he's getting a spot on Team Cena, which proves that they at least have some faith in him to draw.
They gave almost everybody a spot at Wrestlemania. Just because of the paycheck. There would've been complaints otherwise. Hell there were complaints.
John is on there and all that. Sure, and it's due to him being over. Because the crowd wanna see him, but talent wise he's nowhere near world champion. He could've been in 2009 on Smackdown, but he sure as hell ain't now.
The purpose would be to showcase his abilities, put on a good match and get him over through his wrestling ability. But on RAW, if a match isn't a means to an end, it's not going to happen. On Smackdown, you'll see a champ face an up and comer, two high mid carders going at it, just for the match. On RAW, that doesn't happen. Morrison has the ability to have great matches, he's proven that on smackdown even when he didn't have a storyline or feud.
That might very well be true. But I don't think that it's purely that which are keeping him down. John is pretty decent in the ring. But he's not perfect. He has flaws, flaws which should be dealt with. And it shows.
I don't believe he could get over purely due to his wrestling ability in the way that he would get so much over that he'd become a world champion. I mean sure it might have happened before with Bret Hart. But he was still decent on the microphone. And he was insanely over back in the 90's compared to what John will ever become.
Right now, they could put him against Edge, Jericho, some of the Nexus guys, Miz, even Sheamus or some of the faces, and it would serve the purpose of putting him over through his ring ability.
Hell he'd get over just wrestling Jericho. But it just doesn't seem in the cards. I think it's been on notice before that he's not in a position where you would consider him able to carry the top championship, and again it's due to his bland and inconsistent style on the microphone as well as in the ring.
And don't get me wrong the in-ring ability might very well not be that bland. But it gets old rather quickly. I loved John Morrison in the ring back on Smackdown in 2009 against Jeff, Edge and Punk. I'm not too impressed now.
I'm not saying that they should just always have random matches. But RAW's focus on storyline takes away from the wrestling, and causes the show to have less matches worth watching. This has been the case for a long time now. On Smackdown, they put the storylines over through wrestling, through commentary during the match, regardless of whether it's relevant to the feud or not.
Arguable about the worth watching matches. RAW has managed to put on decent matches back and forth for the past 4 months time or so. At least I would like to think so, Wrestlemania did good for RAW.
But even if Smackdown puts the storylines over through all these aspects. It doesn't change the fact that John might not even have been in a position to become world champion on Smackdown, because even over there, there will be better choices.
For instance, forgetting the Nexus storyline for a second, with Sheamus facing Orton, they could book Sheamus vs. Morrison as the main event of next week's raw, have them go at it for 10-15 minutes at the halfway point with a commercial break, and put Sheamus over by beating Morrison in a hard-fought match, which, at the same time, puts Morrison over as a worthy competitor.
Could work. But I don't see it happening. Sheamus might sure be needing to cleanly beat some mid-carders. But there's other choices as well. John has proved that he could go toe to toe with the Smackdown champions. No need to make Sheamus look weak by going toe to toe with John Morrison.
And that's what I see happening, Sheamus looking weak. Because in the end, Sheamus is supposed to be a solid main event player now. He has defeated John Cena, Triple H and Randy Orton. But to have to use 10-15 minutes defeating John Morrison. That's gonna look odd, but that's just me I guess.
Or, if they were going ahead with an Edge-Jericho feud, they could book him against one of those two guys one week, with the commentators putting over both guys and the feud in a 15 minute match.
This is what they do on Smackdown every week.
You're forgetting what show we're talking about - 15 minute matches? RAW?
Not that much of a possibility, sure it would be a great watch. And Jericho & Edge has done it before in making Morrison look good, or well Jericho has made 90% of the roster look good. But it doesn't mean that it will happen this time. There's no need to go in a direction where the feud is hyped through fighting others. So unless you have John or Edge / Jericho loosing by interference from the other. Then it's not gonna happen.
I disagree. Despite being older, more experienced and more accomplished, Christian and Hardy are currently at the same level as Morrison, and it doesn't look like WWE has plans for either to be a main eventer anytime soon. I don't think it pulls him down at all though.
I don't see how Christian and Hardy steps into this? Because they're just as able to draw? Because they're just as good, if not firmly better in the ring than Morrison?
Because I would assume that Christian and Hardy is more over than Morrison, and I'd consider it a clear shot.
I don't think we're arguing the same thing here... it seems like you think I'm talking about RIGHT NOW... of course he won't be a world champion RIGHT NOW. But in a couple of years, there will be retirements, releases, movement, injuries, and I think then, that's when Morrison benefits and makes his move.
I'm thinking overall. Sure there's gonna be retirements, releases etc. But who's to say none of these things affects John Morrison in the way that he's suffering from that specific thing rather than taking the spot of the person suffering from it?
And WWE seems high on pushing young talents, talent to take over when the older ones leave. And it's clear that John is nowhere in those future plans.
