CM Punk and Nash had a little shoot style interaction on Raw. Maybe it was scripted, maybe it wasn't. However, one of the things Punk said about Nash was that he didn't have a mind for the business. I think he was WAY off on that comment. I think Nash may have one of the best minds for the professional wrestling biz than probably 98% of all wrestlers ever. Nash has been at the top of WWF, WCW, TNA, and now in WWE. On top of that nearly impossible feat, he was a draw in WWF and WCW...a big one. Further, Nash knew how to make money. Period. He was getting paid ridiculous sums in WCW and then sat out for almost 2 years while his contract ran out. Appearantly now he has a legends deal that pays him to be on hand. If you watch shoots with Nash, he gets who draws money and knows its much more than what you do in the ring. All in all I think it was a great decision on WWE's part to book a guy that knows the biz and knows how to be a star with Punk.
CM Punk was WRONG about Nash
- Thread starter dtroppe
- Start date
abraxasdeux
Extremely Biased Wrasslin' Fan
I think you're confusing "Having A Mind For The Business" with "Just Being A Greedy Son Of A Bitch"
Having a "Mind For The Business" is knowing when to quit and taking a backseat to the up-and-comers and nuturing them into the wrestlers they could eventually become if given the right push by the company (which Nash, having been in the business for so long, could give the company a letter of recommendation)
Having a "Mind For The Business" is knowing when to quit and taking a backseat to the up-and-comers and nuturing them into the wrestlers they could eventually become if given the right push by the company (which Nash, having been in the business for so long, could give the company a letter of recommendation)
I agree Nash is one greedy SOB!!! He always has been always will be!! Hes always been about himself mr nash whatever the hell he calls himself!! Punk was spot on when he called him out!! Im trying not to bash Kevin but geez come on a leopard doesnt change his spots only his territory!!
I agree with the response above, there's a big difference between having a mind for the business & being greedy or making money. Having a mind for the business means you can book a match without always having yourself go over. It means the fingerpoke of doom never happens. It means that you don't hold someone down because you have a personal beef with them. Nash has made his money, he has a good mind for making himself money but a good mind for the business? No, not with what you stated.
I believe it was also a shot at his booking and creative ideas in WCW. In which he showed that he has no mind for the business.
Im a Nash fan, always have been. His size and ability is a draw. But unlike the OP says...he was never a huge draw on his own. In the NWO, yes, but in WWF he wasn't.
Nash has a great mind for business in general. He knows how to make himself money. Not the company and the others he works for and with.
Im a Nash fan, always have been. His size and ability is a draw. But unlike the OP says...he was never a huge draw on his own. In the NWO, yes, but in WWF he wasn't.
Nash has a great mind for business in general. He knows how to make himself money. Not the company and the others he works for and with.
theHeadliner
Getting Noticed By Management
I'm pretty sure he was the worst drawing champ in WWF history when he held the belt. I think Bret Hart was getting bigger checks than Nash while Nash was champ too.
Just to let you know, he didn't sit out 2 years while his contract ran out. WCW was bought out in 2001 and Nash, Hogan, and Scott Hall showed back up in WWE in Feb 2002. Some may say that Nash is greedy, but I think he is smart. Then again, he may be in financial trouble, so that is why he has a deal with WWE. Who knows, but is he smart, or is he Greedy??? I'd say he is smart. Why not go back to WWE, where he knows HHH is high up on the chain, and we all know the HHH and I would have to say Michales had alot to do with getting him back in, mainly more HHH. As for the shoot, when Punk was rambling off all the names Nash used, it was funny to see.
Rampage Bentley
Saving WZ one post at a time.
Kevin Nash was head booker at WCW, he had an undercard filled with Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rey Mysterio and had them all basically curtain jerking.
Do you remember the fingerpoke of doom?
Or how about Nash booking himself to go over Goldberg?
He doesn't have a good mind for the business, he's too narrowminded. If it's not going to get Kevin Nash or Kevin Nash's friends over, he's not going to bother.
Do you remember the fingerpoke of doom?
Or how about Nash booking himself to go over Goldberg?
He doesn't have a good mind for the business, he's too narrowminded. If it's not going to get Kevin Nash or Kevin Nash's friends over, he's not going to bother.
Awesome_Miz
Proud LSN mentee
Nash has amind for business for himself and that means he graves the money but he smart because he knows ways of making money for free without doing anything.
enviousdominous
Behold my diction
Meh, Nash has been in the business long enough to have developed some kind of mind for it. Either way, he's an easy punching bag for Punk in that nobody ever really did a shoot on Nash regarding his statements and bookings in WCW.
You probably already realize that saying that he knows more than 98% of all wrestlers ever is a bit of a stretch. He sent WCW crashing into a mountain side with the help of Hogan, Russo and Bischoff. If he was such a keen mind regarding the business (back then) he probably would have been a little more humble and let the younger talent acheive stardom.
You probably already realize that saying that he knows more than 98% of all wrestlers ever is a bit of a stretch. He sent WCW crashing into a mountain side with the help of Hogan, Russo and Bischoff. If he was such a keen mind regarding the business (back then) he probably would have been a little more humble and let the younger talent acheive stardom.
Amusing to see all of these people in this thread who must be long-time acquaintances of Kevin Nash. How else would you all know how greedy he is? "But Slyfox, he wanted a big contract, and he booked himself to win matches, and he didn't push a bunch of midgets who were never significant draws, waaahhhh".
Get over it. A comment was made "he had an undercard filled with Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rey Mysterio and had them all basically curtain jerking"...how many of those guys ever turned out to be the draws the nWo was? How many of those guys ever put butts in the seat like Nash? The answer? None. Mysterio is the only man who can claim a legitimate ability to draw, but the demographic he draws is not a demographic WCW ever targeted, so that really doesn't matter.
In the wrestling business, you push the guys you can trust. You put the title on the guys you know will be around to defend it. It's pro wrestling 101. And when you're the booker, you know you're going to be around and you know you can be counted on. Nash didn't do anything which cannot be looked at as a legitimate and valid reason for booking a show the way he did.
And to say he doesn't care about about other guys is just silly. I'm firmly convinced the only reason Scott Hall is still alive is because of Nash. Nash just spent Monday night setting up CM Punk time and again to go over him on the mic, in essence, putting over Punk on the mic the way he would in the ring.
I'd love to see some people who actually have a clue post in this thread, because the majority of you obviously do not.
Get over it. A comment was made "he had an undercard filled with Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rey Mysterio and had them all basically curtain jerking"...how many of those guys ever turned out to be the draws the nWo was? How many of those guys ever put butts in the seat like Nash? The answer? None. Mysterio is the only man who can claim a legitimate ability to draw, but the demographic he draws is not a demographic WCW ever targeted, so that really doesn't matter.
In the wrestling business, you push the guys you can trust. You put the title on the guys you know will be around to defend it. It's pro wrestling 101. And when you're the booker, you know you're going to be around and you know you can be counted on. Nash didn't do anything which cannot be looked at as a legitimate and valid reason for booking a show the way he did.
And to say he doesn't care about about other guys is just silly. I'm firmly convinced the only reason Scott Hall is still alive is because of Nash. Nash just spent Monday night setting up CM Punk time and again to go over him on the mic, in essence, putting over Punk on the mic the way he would in the ring.
I'd love to see some people who actually have a clue post in this thread, because the majority of you obviously do not.
Corpse_Machine
"Vintage Since 1989"
In my opinion that wasnt scripted, Nash started mumbling a little bit half way through and some of the stuff he was saying was kinda poor ammo.
If it was scripted then Nash needs to work on his promos.
If it wasnt scripted then Nash needs to get a bit more creative with his words.
If it was scripted then Nash needs to work on his promos.
If it wasnt scripted then Nash needs to get a bit more creative with his words.
Papa Zapatista
Dark Match Winner
Listen to yourself, you're preaching borderline communism. It's not his job to determine whether or not he should be in the spotlight over someone else. He has every right to use his abilities to keep making money for himself. Would you step aside and turn down a promotion if you knew a co-worker could do a better job than you?
It's people like you in the IWC who truly have no mind for the business. Because you forget the most important part: it's business. It's not a magical place of unicorns and rainbows where everyone jumps aside to let others surpass them. Each person is out for himself, and himself only. Management's job is to create the best product possible, not Kevin Nash.
Corpse_Machine
"Vintage Since 1989"
You may shoot me down for this and if you must then go ahead, but didnt all of these guys you mentioned eventually manage to draw? Clearly not at the same time as the NWO or anything of that high value but they did manage it.
Jericho, Rey and the Radicals all have/had quite a massive following.
Uncle Phatso
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I love Big sexy, I have since I was a kid. My parents were huge Hogan marks, HUGE. So in wrestling the Nwo was a staple for me as a kid. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were my dudes, Only Sting trumped them in Wcw.
Here is the small thing about Kevin Nash that made him credible. He was Hogans right hand man in arguably the biggest group ever in wrestling. He's a former 6 world champion, and held onto one of them for almost a year. If an almost 20 year vet and former six time world champion doesn’t know what he's doing. Then Jesus...
He's an old hand that has mic skills and a ring presence almost second to none. Everyone hating on Nash is pointless, he knows what he was doing. Punk is great on the mic, and I believe in his time Nash could of gone shot for shot with Punk. Nash is somewhat out of practice but he's not this money grubbing moron that everyone is trying to play him out to be.
I believe Nash could put on a small match with Punk, not a clinic. But something short 5-8 minutes maybe. But still he put over one of the biggest superstars in the company on Raw. When one of HHH's best friends puts you over you know you are doing something right.
I don't think promo scripted or not was as good as it could of been. Nash seemed to be a bit lost during portions of it. But it's live Tv, I don't care who you are. People have off nights, but big deal. The Iwc will pick that shit apart, because we all know that Arm chair booker #1 could cut a super swell promo in his bathroom that would blow Nash out of the water.
Are you kidding me!? Are you really kidding me here, you think Nash is just taking up space. Maybe the fact that he's putting over a person who's been working his ass off for years to get to this isn't enough. This is story telling 101, you have to have someone put over Punk as credible. Sure wins over Cena are nice, but he's proving to the masses that when he says he's the best in the buisness today. That he is god damn one of the best, because Kevin Nash in his prime was a great mic worker and a great wrestler.
Kevin Nash isn't hogging the spotlight, he isn't ruining someones contract. He's making Punk look like even more of a beast on the mic.
Here is the small thing about Kevin Nash that made him credible. He was Hogans right hand man in arguably the biggest group ever in wrestling. He's a former 6 world champion, and held onto one of them for almost a year. If an almost 20 year vet and former six time world champion doesn’t know what he's doing. Then Jesus...
He's an old hand that has mic skills and a ring presence almost second to none. Everyone hating on Nash is pointless, he knows what he was doing. Punk is great on the mic, and I believe in his time Nash could of gone shot for shot with Punk. Nash is somewhat out of practice but he's not this money grubbing moron that everyone is trying to play him out to be.
I believe Nash could put on a small match with Punk, not a clinic. But something short 5-8 minutes maybe. But still he put over one of the biggest superstars in the company on Raw. When one of HHH's best friends puts you over you know you are doing something right.
I don't think promo scripted or not was as good as it could of been. Nash seemed to be a bit lost during portions of it. But it's live Tv, I don't care who you are. People have off nights, but big deal. The Iwc will pick that shit apart, because we all know that Arm chair booker #1 could cut a super swell promo in his bathroom that would blow Nash out of the water.
Are you kidding me!? Are you really kidding me here, you think Nash is just taking up space. Maybe the fact that he's putting over a person who's been working his ass off for years to get to this isn't enough. This is story telling 101, you have to have someone put over Punk as credible. Sure wins over Cena are nice, but he's proving to the masses that when he says he's the best in the buisness today. That he is god damn one of the best, because Kevin Nash in his prime was a great mic worker and a great wrestler.
Kevin Nash isn't hogging the spotlight, he isn't ruining someones contract. He's making Punk look like even more of a beast on the mic.
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
It was not a shoot.
Nash DOES have a mind for the business. He went into business for himself a few times, but listen to his shoots (his none drunk with X Pac shoots). The dude is really smart.
People, STOP with the WCW shit. When Ted merged with AOL, their corporate people tried their best to ruin the company. Constant instability will do that.
Nash has a great mind for the business, so does CM Punk. They do it in different ways. Yet also a lot of the same ways. They're both very story and character oriented as opposed to "do more moves".
People who are saying Nash doesn't belong in the storyline don't get the storyline. They just wanna see CM Punk win the title clean and win a bunch of defenses in "hard fought straight up wrestling matches" clean. They're stupid. The story is that CM Punk is fighting the man. If he has the title, his character isn't as over because he has already fucking won. Nash is perfect because he's a Kliq member, so there's credibility to that, he's more intimidating than X-Pac, he's more sober than Hall, and if you used HBK he'd be taking cheers away from Punk. Nash fits the story.
Nash DOES have a mind for the business. He went into business for himself a few times, but listen to his shoots (his none drunk with X Pac shoots). The dude is really smart.
People, STOP with the WCW shit. When Ted merged with AOL, their corporate people tried their best to ruin the company. Constant instability will do that.
Nash has a great mind for the business, so does CM Punk. They do it in different ways. Yet also a lot of the same ways. They're both very story and character oriented as opposed to "do more moves".
People who are saying Nash doesn't belong in the storyline don't get the storyline. They just wanna see CM Punk win the title clean and win a bunch of defenses in "hard fought straight up wrestling matches" clean. They're stupid. The story is that CM Punk is fighting the man. If he has the title, his character isn't as over because he has already fucking won. Nash is perfect because he's a Kliq member, so there's credibility to that, he's more intimidating than X-Pac, he's more sober than Hall, and if you used HBK he'd be taking cheers away from Punk. Nash fits the story.
I totally agree with the user who disregarded the whole thing about Benoit, Eddie etc. Yes in the long run they did make it to the top, but at the time you had the likes of Hogan, Goldberg and so on which drew the money. Face facts Eddie was not on that level. Hell even in the WWE those who were named were in the midcards for years, successful midcard runs but they weren't given the spotlight for many years after if they ever did come out of it.
Also Benoit was to be WCW Champion, but he left for WWF so to say someone kept him down is a bit of rubbish... he was a midcard in WCW and a midcard for the majority of his time in WWE. This had nothing to do with Nash, just one of those things. Eddie was given a bigger push in WWE but that was after he went to rehab and cleaned himself up. One could argue he wasn't the most reliable wrestler to give a push too
Jericho, apart from being the first man to hold both belts what did he do outside the midcard? His title runs have hardily been anything worth mentioning.
WWE gave these guys a chance for one reason, because they needed to. The company was on the verge of going out of business and had to create. WCW didn't have this problem until 2000 by which time a) They didn't listen b) They pushed Jeff Jarrett c) The likes of the NWO no longer appealed.
A lot of harsh criticism goes to Nash, but if you look at the bigger picture its totally unfair. People talk about how he booked himself over Goldberg.... yet when he did that he did it such a way that Goldberg didn't look weak and you basically had to paralysis the man to beat him. It was a good way to end the streak and keep Goldberg the way he is. They did something similar with Lesnar, but on a lesser scale.
Nash was a big player in the last successful era of wrestling, the problem with WCW wasn't what he did or didn't do. There were that many issues that it needed one man to control everything and it simply didn't have that, its one of the reasons WWE is stable. Vince decides and thats the end of it, WCW didn't have this and backstage politics and AOL/Time Warner killed it in the end.
Also just for people's information, Nash's contract in WCW wasn't two years when the company went bust. It expired in or around December of 2001, so he did wait with the others and took the pay slip.... anyone who thinks that is greedy really needs to wake up, it was a smart thing to do. He would never get that paycheck in WWF so why lose money and join a badly thought out Invasion?
Also Benoit was to be WCW Champion, but he left for WWF so to say someone kept him down is a bit of rubbish... he was a midcard in WCW and a midcard for the majority of his time in WWE. This had nothing to do with Nash, just one of those things. Eddie was given a bigger push in WWE but that was after he went to rehab and cleaned himself up. One could argue he wasn't the most reliable wrestler to give a push too
Jericho, apart from being the first man to hold both belts what did he do outside the midcard? His title runs have hardily been anything worth mentioning.
WWE gave these guys a chance for one reason, because they needed to. The company was on the verge of going out of business and had to create. WCW didn't have this problem until 2000 by which time a) They didn't listen b) They pushed Jeff Jarrett c) The likes of the NWO no longer appealed.
A lot of harsh criticism goes to Nash, but if you look at the bigger picture its totally unfair. People talk about how he booked himself over Goldberg.... yet when he did that he did it such a way that Goldberg didn't look weak and you basically had to paralysis the man to beat him. It was a good way to end the streak and keep Goldberg the way he is. They did something similar with Lesnar, but on a lesser scale.
Nash was a big player in the last successful era of wrestling, the problem with WCW wasn't what he did or didn't do. There were that many issues that it needed one man to control everything and it simply didn't have that, its one of the reasons WWE is stable. Vince decides and thats the end of it, WCW didn't have this and backstage politics and AOL/Time Warner killed it in the end.
Also just for people's information, Nash's contract in WCW wasn't two years when the company went bust. It expired in or around December of 2001, so he did wait with the others and took the pay slip.... anyone who thinks that is greedy really needs to wake up, it was a smart thing to do. He would never get that paycheck in WWF so why lose money and join a badly thought out Invasion?
abraxasdeux
Extremely Biased Wrasslin' Fan
Are we even watching the same RAW?
Punk has been over for weeks, having you been hearing that applause?
The company randomly chose to push him on a whim because he was deadweight due to the lack of attention focused on him and his contract was up and they wanted him to go out with a bang
They probably just didn't expect him to get so popular so soon
Punk doesn't need to be any more over than he already is, Nash varifing his credibility is nice, but not totally necessarily
Also, never said Nash was ruining someone's contract, never said he was hogging the spotlight.
The only thing that I'm paying attention to these days is the storyline because the wrestling is outright bland
I have no problem with Nash being back in the company, or being part of the storyline, I just have a problem with him being part of the dwindling active roster that needs fresh meat badly
Just to clarify what I said earlier, I've met Kevin Nash & hung out with him, very nice man, I'm not saying holding out for money or worrying about himself is bad. Anyone else would do the same thing, I also didn't mean he was greedy. Like I said, anyone else would do the same thing. Just not brag about it.
When I say he doesn't have a good mind for the business I'm talking about booking a match & storytelling. Your job as a booker is not to put yourself over everyone else so you make more money. Your company will go out of business very quickly if you always did that!I quit watching WCW after the fingerpoke of doom but not because of that moment. It was the moment after when the unstoppable force of Goldberg got his ass handed to him. It was the same old thing again. Maybe it wasn't always Nash & maybe people are lumping Nash & Hogans booking together but the NWO was huge but it was destroyed by greed & creative control! Not what someone who has a good mind for the business would let happen. Just sayin
When I say he doesn't have a good mind for the business I'm talking about booking a match & storytelling. Your job as a booker is not to put yourself over everyone else so you make more money. Your company will go out of business very quickly if you always did that!I quit watching WCW after the fingerpoke of doom but not because of that moment. It was the moment after when the unstoppable force of Goldberg got his ass handed to him. It was the same old thing again. Maybe it wasn't always Nash & maybe people are lumping Nash & Hogans booking together but the NWO was huge but it was destroyed by greed & creative control! Not what someone who has a good mind for the business would let happen. Just sayin
abraxasdeux
Extremely Biased Wrasslin' Fan
Vince has said on the record that his company provides "Opportunites" not "Careers"
............What I'm trying to get across is that Nash needs to play the role of Terry Funk in ECW here, he needs to get the newbies ready and let them know what they need to do to help the company grow and not so much focus on his own affairs. He was GIVEN an OPPORTUNITY and he needs to utilize it.
He is over the hill and probably won't have much time left in the company, so why not make the most of it?
I don't care if he's looking out for number 1, he just needs to focus on the big picture like he hasn't in the past
No, they weren't draws, which is why I mentioned Rey has been the only one to do so, but not in a demographic in which WCW was concerned.
Nash has a very good mind for the business. Despite what people in the IWC may think, the wrestling business is not a noble business. It never has been and never will be. The wrestling business is a "what affects me" business. If you're not looking out for yourself, then no one else is either. The fact Nash has been so successful for so long is proof he has a mind for the business.
I think Kevin Nash has a tremendous mind for the professional wrestling business. The man has been a big deal everywhere he has been, and while there may be somewhat of a luck component to this, and a certain amount of self centered-ness, the results speak for themselves. In WWF, Big Daddy Cool was closely associated with HBK, eventually breaking free of him and becoming huge on his own. nWo speaks for itself, the greatest faction in the history of professional wrestling , impacting the professional wrestling business in a monumental way. He was a prominent guy for years in TNA. And now he's back in the big leagues, where he will be valuable in the continued elevation of CM Punk. He realizes I'm sure that he's well past his prime, and will not be main eventing anytime soon, and I see no titles around his waist in WWE. Let's face it, it would be ridiculous for a guy past his prime to be thrust into the main event in 2011, I cannot imagine any company proceeding with anything as short sighted as pushing stars from yesteryear in the biggest PPV of the year. Trust me, we won't be seeing Kevin Nash on the poster for WM, nor will he be anywhere the main event 
No denying his mind for the business, though. Forget about the IWC delusion that these guys somehow owe the business something and now in turn need to pay it back. Kevin Nash is looking out for one thing and one thing only: Kevin Nash, just like many of us would do if we were standing in his enormous shoes. He will integrate himself into another prominent storyline, without dominating it, make himself a few bucks along the way, and help WWE continue it's progressive move forward with Punk. Win win.
No denying his mind for the business, though. Forget about the IWC delusion that these guys somehow owe the business something and now in turn need to pay it back. Kevin Nash is looking out for one thing and one thing only: Kevin Nash, just like many of us would do if we were standing in his enormous shoes. He will integrate himself into another prominent storyline, without dominating it, make himself a few bucks along the way, and help WWE continue it's progressive move forward with Punk. Win win.
Swarles Barkley
Pre-Show Stalwart
And aside from the nWo, Nash has never been a draw. In fact, Nash has never been a draw by himself. The nWo drew because of Hogan. It was something new to see Hogan play a heel and that was the drawing point, not Nash. Remember, WCW didn't start crushing the WWF in the ratings until after Hogan joined.
Anyway, to say that Jericho and Eddie never drew is ridiculous, and proves you don't know what the would "draw" means.
sdaniel1977
Dark Match Winner
Punk was absolutely right for what he said about Nash. He has no mind for the business because he thinks he is the business. When in wcw he constantly belittled a lot of talented workers that he claimed the crowd didn't want to see. The "vanilla midgets" as he called them. Well, 4 of those men went on from WCW to be very marketable world champions in WWE. Namely it was Mysterio,Benoit,Jericho,and the late Eddie Guerrero. Eddie wasn't marketable? Vince sure did a job with him. Nash wants to talk respect in the business? Was it respect when the nWo did a horseman parody belittling one of the greatest workers and the greatest group ever in wrestling? Is he really too jaded to know that without the foresight of Arn Anderson in naming the group that it paved the way for all future factions to exist? Everybody wants to talk of how Cena can't work and I'll grant you he's not the greatest by any stretch, but I will give him credit for his love of the business. I can't say the same for Kevin Nash.
Yes, aside from that group Nash co-founded which turned the wrestling world on its heels, revolutionized the business, turned a company losing millions of dollars a year to one that was making $300 million and almost put the WWE out of business...yes, aside from that group...
I agree Hogan played a big part in it. No doubt about it. He played the major part. It doesn't change the fact that when Nash was doing the booking, he was still part of (at the time) the biggest drawing angle of all time, and he was one of the biggest reasons for it. And it doesn't change the fact that nothing those guys ever did came close to matching what Nash and the nWo did.
Oh really, then why don't you educate me. Please point to me the drawing those guys did. Show me where ratings and business significantly improved during their title reigns and main-eventing careers. Please point me to your evidence these guys were great draws to the type of fans WCW promoted to.
I eagerly await your failure.
