Some Respect For Kevin Nash

[TUFFY54]

Kevin Nash is one of the most disrespected wrestlers on these forums. He has been called everything from lazy to greedy to a bad worker. I must say that I disagree with almost all of this. Lets take a look at some of the most common things said about him.

He Was A Bad WWF Champion
Lots of people claim that Kevin Nash had a terrible run as WWF champion. Nash wasn't a great champion, but he was a good champion. He had the look, he was believable, and he was great on the mic. During his year long run he had great feuds with the likes of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. The WWF didn't make a lot of money at this time, but that wasn't Nash's fault. Nash didn't have any control over the fact that, while he was champion, Vince brought in some of the worst characters in wrestling history. Mantaur, Kwang, Rad Radford, Barry Horowitz, The Bodydonnas, Well Dunn, Issac Yankem, and The Heavenly Bodies were being pushed by the WWF when Nash was champ. It would be hard for any wrestling company to make a lot of money with an undercard like that. Nash also isn't responsible for Vince pushing Mable against him in the main event. However, during his reign the WWF did beat WCW in the ratings. In 1996 and 1997 WCW destroyed the WWF in ratings. During that time the main champs were Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker. Does that make them bad champions?

He Only Achieved Success Because Of The Clique
Nash gained his success through his own hard work. He was never handed anything but a hard time and bad gimmicks before he got his break. When he got his start in WCW he was made to have a green mohawk and be a part of the Master Blasters. After a few months of making no money they told him the gimmick was over. Next he received the most embarrassing gimmick in wrestling history with OZ. It was horrible beyond words. I can't even try to explain it, just watch it on YouTube. After dealing with all of that, he came up with his own gimmick. Vinnie Vegas was a precursor to Diesel, and it got him noticed by the WWF. He formed the Clique after arriving in WWF. Almost every wrestler claims that his business is filled with backstabbers, and that you can't trust anyone. He and the others had dealt with his before and decided to do something about it. They basically started their own personal union. They told each other what they got paid, and tried to make sure they all made as much money as possible. They invited other wrestlers to join with them, but they wouldn't share what they were making for fear of upsetting Vince. A lot of people claim that they held everyone down and did whatever they wanted. None of us were there, but I find this hard to believe. If they had that much control then Hall would have gotten a run as champion, and neither of them would have left for WCW. Nash has said in interviews before how, during his time as world champ, Bret and Taker were both making more money than him. I also find it funny that Nash is always accused of his politics in the WWF when Shawn Michaels was the leader of the Clique. As far as the argument for not putting people over goes, how come no one bashes Steve Austin? Jeff Jarrett went back to WCW because Austin said he would never do the job and give Jeff the stap. He and Rock also did the same thing to Billy Gunn. Thats why his King of the Ring push never went anywhere. And lets not forget the problems between Randy Orton and Ken Anderson.

He's Only Famous Because He Was In The NWO
That's like saying John Lennon was only famous because he was a Beatle. Nash was one third of the most popular, and revolutionary, stable in pro wrestling history. During the height of the NWO Nash was getting bigger pops than anyone else in WCW. He was one of the main forces behind one of the most important angles in wrestling history. Remember, Nash powerbombed Bischoff through a table over a year before Austin stunned McMahon.

He Didn't Put Anyone Over
Nash lost plenty of times before he was the WWF champ. Vince was the one that decided to have him hold the belt for a year and never get pinned. On his way out of the WWF he put over Shawn, Bret, and Taker. In WCW he was supposed to be the muscle of an unstoppable group. I sure don't think the NWO would have worked if Nash was getting pinned every night. Why exactly would WCW want to make one of their biggest, and highest paid, wrestlers go out and lose every night. He and Hall lost all the time, they just used their influence to get the belts back on Nitro every time because they were heels. After the NWO died down he had about the same win/lose record as every other main event wrestler in WCW. I think he's lost more matches than he's won in TNA.

He Booked Himself To End Goldberg's Streak
This is one of the biggest misconceptions in wrestling. Nash beat Goldberg in December of 98. He didn't become booker until spring of 99. He was told he was going over Goldberg. He also didn't do anything to hurt Goldberg. People were getting tired of Goldberg because there was never any drama or emotion with him. He never had a compelling storyline and he couldn't cut an interview. Eventually, people got tired of him coming out, screaming, and spearing a guy for the 200th time. Go on You Tube and watch the Starrcade match. The crowd was almost split 50/50, and their were a ton of cheers when Nash won. Don't forget, he didn't even go over clean. Hall had to use a stun gun for Nash to beat Goldberg.

The Finger Poke Of Doom
How come nobody thinks Andre The Giant is a greedy, lazy, piece of crap that killed the WWF? He won the world title and just handed it to Ted DiBiase. It was no different than the Finger Poke of Doom. For that matter, how come Samoa Joe isn't hated on for just giving the title to Kurt Angle while he was feuding with him? Wrestlers giving up titles to advance storylines has been done before and after the Finger Poke. Hogan and Nash didn't hurt WCW with the Finger Poke, Goldberg did. The plan was for Goldberg to go through the entire new NWO until he got the belt back from Hogan. It was going to be a great angle and would make Goldberg fresh again. Instead, Goldberg decided to punch out a limo window during Nitro. Instead of going through with a hot new feud, he almost bled to death and was off TV for months. Besides, the angle was done to draw heat, and 12 years later people are still mad about it. Sounds like it did its job to me.

He Booked WCW To Its Death
This one is up in the air. He probably didn't help WCW in the end, but nobody in WCW helped it. He was a cog in a bad machine. There were so many things wrong with WCW and the AOL merger that no single person can be blamed for its death.

He's Lazy / A Bad Worker
Nash played college basketball and helped take the Tennessee Volunteers to the Sweat 16. He then played pro basketball in Europe until a knee injury forced him to retire. These aren't things a typical lazy person does. After that he did something else that wasn't exactly lazy. Unlike John Cena, who as CM Punk pointed out on RAW, likes to pretend he's a Marine with his salutes and dog tags, Kevin Nash joined the Army to pay his bills. He served for two years and reached the rank of specialist. He then worked as a bouncer and auto mechanic before become a pro wrestler at the ago of 30. He wasn't lazy as a pro wrestler either. Nobody ever chanted boring when he wrestled. He had great matches with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall, and The Undertaker. His gimmick in the NWO was that he was laid back and didn't care, but he never sandbagged it in the ring. He openly admits that he is, and always has been, limited in the ring. He couldn't do flips, and he didn't need to. He had more charisma than every cruiserweight in WCW combined. He was able to work a style that got over with the fans and made him famous. The fact that he still takes bumps and goes out to the ring in his 50's doesn't really strike me as something a lazy person would do.

He's Bitter
Nash isn't bitter, he's honest. In interviews he honestly talks about things he likes and things he thinks are bad in the world of pro wrestling. People go on these forums every day and talk about what they think sucks about pro wrestling and how they would change it. The people with these opinions (myself included) have never set one foot into a wrestling ring. Yet, when a superstar and 20 year veteran of the sport says he doesn't like something, people claim he's bitter and jealous. Nash also never buried any of his old bosses in shoot interviews. Unlike almost every other wrestler that puts a shoot interview out, he didn't trash Vince, Bischoff, or Dixie. In fact, he didn't even trash Vince Russo. I think he was 100% right when he said he was a bigger star than RVD and Jeff Hardy. As popular as those guys are, they will never do anything that compares with the NWO in its prime.

He's Greedy
This is the dumbest thing anyone could ever say. Of course Kevin Nash tried to get as much money possible. Hogan, Flair, Austin, Bret, Goldberg, and a dozen other wrestlers have done the same thing. It isn't real and Nash always realized it was a job. Everyone in the world thinks they should be making as much money as possible at their job. Everyone in the entertainment industry is in it for the money! Every day ESPN has a story about an athlete holding out on a contract for more money. Why should Nash be cursed for doing something that everyone you see on TV does? He has also acknowledged many times that he helps provide for many of his family members that haven't been as fortunate as him.

Here's the truth about Kevin Nash:
At the end of the day, Kevin Nash is a twenty year veteran who is remembered for being involved in the angle that made wrestling a pop culture phenomenon in the 90's. He made millions of dollars, and became one of the most popular wrestlers in the world during the height of the NWO. He won many world titles and was a main event star in the three biggest wrestling companies in America. He was controversial, but charismatic. He wasn't perfect, but no wrestler has ever been.

I'll end this with a quote from Jim Ross. A man that is universally respected for his talent and opinions in the wrestling business. This quote was taken from the WWE's Greatest Stars of the 90's DVD: "You can't talk about the biggest wrestling stars of the 90's without talking about Kevin Nash. And you can't do it honestly without putting him toward the top of the list."

 

[The Brain]

The first thing I want to say is I liked Nash when he was Diesel. I think people are too hard on him when it comes to his reign as WWF champion. I’m one of the few people who liked the WWF when it was running on Diesel fuel.

With that said, I’ve never cared for Nash’s ego and think he actually gets too much credit at times. He talks about his success in the business and how he knew how to draw a sell out crowd. He makes these claims yet attendance was down during his time as champion. His supporters are quick to mention his role in the nwo and how that angle changed wrestling. The nwo did change wrestling and Nash was a big part of that angle, but he wasn’t the reason for its success.

When Hall and Nash first showed up in WCW there was confusion among the fans and many felt they were actually sent by the WWF. The internet was brand new in people’s homes around this time and there weren’t any credible web sites. It was mostly chat rooms filled with people who had no idea what they were talking about. If this angle took place today everyone would immediately know the truth behind it. It would still be interesting but it wouldn’t have captured the fans’ imaginations like it did back then. This wouldn’t have even worked at an earlier point. The timing was perfect as this was around the time Vince McMahon was first acknowledging his competition and the bad blood between the two companies had become public. We all know the real key to the success of the nwo was the Hogan heel turn. Without that the nwo probably would have been around for less than a year, been defeated by the top WCW guys at War Games, and that would have been the end of it. Of course I’m just assuming here but that’s my opinion.

Nash bragging about how great he was in wrestling is like Jesse Ventura bragging about how great he was in movies. Sure Predator and The Running Man did well at the box office (well Predator did anyway) but it was Arnold Schwarzenegger who drew the fans in, not a supporting actor. So while I like Diesel he’s far from the top of my list of all time greats.

 

[MHardy_Fan]

You make very good points. Nash was one of my wrestlers from the early 90’s up until his days in the WWE in the 2000’s. I always thought he was very charismatic on the mic and was fun to watch in the ring. I loved his feuds with Shawn Michaels; they had a great story to them. Also, that Taker and Diesel match was pretty hyped and it delivered. Nash is just easy to hate on because he was involved with all that WCW mess. Everyone has a different story on how things went down as far politicking went in WCW. We will never know the true story. Fact is, Nash was still a great wrestler!

 

[MarcusFenixX]

i can honestly say i agree with you 99.9%, the .1% because i liked goldberg lol but although i liked him ive watched his streak over n over n u were ryte, it got stale, i still see it as the 2nd best streak in wrestling cause i mark out for the man. but on the real subject NASH!

As much now-a-days people wanna call bull shyt on stuff going on, wether it be interviews, in ring action, youtube videos, whatever. this guy gives u his honest opinion and doesnt HOLD BACK! hes a monster who has put people over, made some bad decisions (havent we all?!?!) tried to fix them(whatever company he was in) but his in ring work was always great and you could see his dedication a mile a way. why else would a man stick with one of the worlds most critiqued activities/sports for his career. one word, PASSION. loved or hated he has stuck with it.

On a separate note, He DESERVES a HOF induction, no matter what company owns it, hes a walking legend, give the man his due.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I agree with The Brain on this issue. Kevin Nash's run as Diesel gets criminally underrated because of who were champions before and after Diesel and because of his own big mouth.

Nash's mouth is his biggest problem. He talks about revolutionizing wrestling and drawing huge crowds when the facts are dead against him. He was A part of the revolutionary NWO faction and a case could be made that he wa perhaps the least significant member of the original NWO. He was a good champion as Diesel but perhaps one of the worst drawing ones in history. There is more than just one reason for this and most of those reasons don't even involve Diesel but facts are facts and if he shows disregaard for those facts, it just makes him look bad.

He was never a great worker but he was decent in his Diesel days and got worse as time went by. He is great on the mic and that was mostly the reason for his success. I think that if he talked a bit less he would probably be held in much higher esteem.

 

[alistahr]

holy shit, this is the best thread ive seen in this god forsaken site.

Your points are dead on, especially the one about fans calling him bitter, it seems like most of these idiots on this site and plenty other wrestling forums feel like they have more right to give their opinion about the business than those who have been a part of it and played the game that is the wrestling business, especially someone like Nash.

props to so far my favorite thread ever

 

[dansaun77]

Kevin Nash is one of the most disrespected wrestlers on these forums. He has been called everything from lazy to greedy to a bad worker. I must say that I disagree with almost all of this. Lets take a look at some of the most common things said about him.

He Was A Bad WWF Champion
Lots of people claim that Kevin Nash had a terrible run as WWF champion. Nash wasn't a great champion, but he was a good champion. He had the look, he was believable, and he was great on the mic. During his year long run he had great feuds with the likes of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart. The WWF didn't make a lot of money at this time, but that wasn't Nash's fault. Nash didn't have any control over the fact that, while he was champion, Vince brought in some of the worst characters in wrestling history. Mantaur, Kwang, Rad Radford, Barry Horowitz, The Bodydonnas, Well Dunn, Issac Yankem, and The Heavenly Bodies were being pushed by the WWF when Nash was champ. It would be hard for any wrestling company to make a lot of money with an undercard like that. Nash also isn't responsible for Vince pushing Mable against him in the main event. However, during his reign the WWF did beat WCW in the ratings. In 1996 and 1997 WCW destroyed the WWF in ratings. During that time the main champs were Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker. Does that make them bad champions?

He Only Achieved Success Because Of The Clique
Nash gained his success through his own hard work. He was never handed anything but a hard time and bad gimmicks before he got his break. When he got his start in WCW he was made to have a green mohawk and be a part of the Master Blasters. After a few months of making no money they told him the gimmick was over. Next he received the most embarrassing gimmick in wrestling history with OZ. It was horrible beyond words. I can't even try to explain it, just watch it on YouTube. After dealing with all of that, he came up with his own gimmick. Vinnie Vegas was a precursor to Diesel, and it got him noticed by the WWF. He formed the Clique after arriving in WWF. Almost every wrestler claims that his business is filled with backstabbers, and that you can't trust anyone. He and the others had dealt with his before and decided to do something about it. They basically started their own personal union. They told each other what they got paid, and tried to make sure they all made as much money as possible. They invited other wrestlers to join with them, but they wouldn't share what they were making for fear of upsetting Vince. A lot of people claim that they held everyone down and did whatever they wanted. None of us were there, but I find this hard to believe. If they had that much control then Hall would have gotten a run as champion, and neither of them would have left for WCW. Nash has said in interviews before how, during his time as world champ, Bret and Taker were both making more money than him. I also find it funny that Nash is always accused of his politics in the WWF when Shawn Michaels was the leader of the Clique. As far as the argument for not putting people over goes, how come no one bashes Steve Austin? Jeff Jarrett went back to WCW because Austin said he would never do the job and give Jeff the stap. He and Rock also did the same thing to Billy Gunn. Thats why his King of the Ring push never went anywhere. And lets not forget the problems between Randy Orton and Ken Anderson.

He's Only Famous Because He Was In The NWO
That's like saying John Lennon was only famous because he was a Beatle. Nash was one third of the most popular, and revolutionary, stable in pro wrestling history. During the height of the NWO Nash was getting bigger pops than anyone else in WCW. He was one of the main forces behind one of the most important angles in wrestling history. Remember, Nash powerbombed Bischoff through a table over a year before Austin stunned McMahon.

He Didn't Put Anyone Over
Nash lost plenty of times before he was the WWF champ. Vince was the one that decided to have him hold the belt for a year and never get pinned. On his way out of the WWF he put over Shawn, Bret, and Taker. In WCW he was supposed to be the muscle of an unstoppable group. I sure don't think the NWO would have worked if Nash was getting pinned every night. Why exactly would WCW want to make one of their biggest, and highest paid, wrestlers go out and lose every night. He and Hall lost all the time, they just used their influence to get the belts back on Nitro every time because they were heels. After the NWO died down he had about the same win/lose record as every other main event wrestler in WCW. I think he's lost more matches than he's won in TNA.

He Booked Himself To End Goldberg's Streak
This is one of the biggest misconceptions in wrestling. Nash beat Goldberg in December of 98. He didn't become booker until spring of 99. He was told he was going over Goldberg. He also didn't do anything to hurt Goldberg. People were getting tired of Goldberg because there was never any drama or emotion with him. He never had a compelling storyline and he couldn't cut an interview. Eventually, people got tired of him coming out, screaming, and spearing a guy for the 200th time. Go on You Tube and watch the Starrcade match. The crowd was almost split 50/50, and their were a ton of cheers when Nash won. Don't forget, he didn't even go over clean. Hall had to use a stun gun for Nash to beat Goldberg.

The Finger Poke Of Doom
How come nobody thinks Andre The Giant is a greedy, lazy, piece of crap that killed the WWF? He won the world title and just handed it to Ted DiBiase. It was no different than the Finger Poke of Doom. For that matter, how come Samoa Joe isn't hated on for just giving the title to Kurt Angle while he was feuding with him? Wrestlers giving up titles to advance storylines has been done before and after the Finger Poke. Hogan and Nash didn't hurt WCW with the Finger Poke, Goldberg did. The plan was for Goldberg to go through the entire new NWO until he got the belt back from Hogan. It was going to be a great angle and would make Goldberg fresh again. Instead, Goldberg decided to punch out a limo window during Nitro. Instead of going through with a hot new feud, he almost bled to death and was off TV for months. Besides, the angle was done to draw heat, and 12 years later people are still mad about it. Sounds like it did its job to me.

He Booked WCW To Its Death
This one is up in the air. He probably didn't help WCW in the end, but nobody in WCW helped it. He was a cog in a bad machine. There were so many things wrong with WCW and the AOL merger that no single person can be blamed for its death.

He's Lazy / A Bad Worker
Nash played college basketball and helped take the Tennessee Volunteers to the Sweat 16. He then played pro basketball in Europe until a knee injury forced him to retire. These aren't things a typical lazy person does. After that he did something else that wasn't exactly lazy. Unlike John Cena, who as CM Punk pointed out on RAW, likes to pretend he's a Marine with his salutes and dog tags, Kevin Nash joined the Army to pay his bills. He served for two years and reached the rank of specialist. He then worked as a bouncer and auto mechanic before become a pro wrestler at the ago of 30. He wasn't lazy as a pro wrestler either. Nobody ever chanted boring when he wrestled. He had great matches with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall, and The Undertaker. His gimmick in the NWO was that he was laid back and didn't care, but he never sandbagged it in the ring. He openly admits that he is, and always has been, limited in the ring. He couldn't do flips, and he didn't need to. He had more charisma than every cruiserweight in WCW combined. He was able to work a style that got over with the fans and made him famous. The fact that he still takes bumps and goes out to the ring in his 50's doesn't really strike me as something a lazy person would do.

He's Bitter
Nash isn't bitter, he's honest. In interviews he honestly talks about things he likes and things he thinks are bad in the world of pro wrestling. People go on these forums every day and talk about what they think sucks about pro wrestling and how they would change it. The people with these opinions (myself included) have never set one foot into a wrestling ring. Yet, when a superstar and 20 year veteran of the sport says he doesn't like something, people claim he's bitter and jealous. Nash also never buried any of his old bosses in shoot interviews. Unlike almost every other wrestler that puts a shoot interview out, he didn't trash Vince, Bischoff, or Dixie. In fact, he didn't even trash Vince Russo. I think he was 100% right when he said he was a bigger star than RVD and Jeff Hardy. As popular as those guys are, they will never do anything that compares with the NWO in its prime.

He's Greedy
This is the dumbest thing anyone could ever say. Of course Kevin Nash tried to get as much money possible. Hogan, Flair, Austin, Bret, Goldberg, and a dozen other wrestlers have done the same thing. It isn't real and Nash always realized it was a job. Everyone in the world thinks they should be making as much money as possible at their job. Everyone in the entertainment industry is in it for the money! Every day ESPN has a story about an athlete holding out on a contract for more money. Why should Nash be cursed for doing something that everyone you see on TV does? He has also acknowledged many times that he helps provide for many of his family members that haven't been as fortunate as him.

Here's the truth about Kevin Nash:
At the end of the day, Kevin Nash is a twenty year veteran who is remembered for being involved in the angle that made wrestling a pop culture phenomenon in the 90's. He made millions of dollars, and became one of the most popular wrestlers in the world during the height of the NWO. He won many world titles and was a main event star in the three biggest wrestling companies in America. He was controversial, but charismatic. He wasn't perfect, but no wrestler has ever been.

I'll end this with a quote from Jim Ross. A man that is universally respected for his talent and opinions in the wrestling business. This quote was taken from the WWE's Greatest Stars of the 90's DVD: "You can't talk about the biggest wrestling stars of the 90's without talking about Kevin Nash. And you can't do it honestly without putting him toward the top of the list."

Kevin Nash indeed was booker before Starrcade 1998, and did indeed book himself to defeat Goldberg and end his streak. This is bona fide fact.

 

[JETER123]

Kevin Nash indeed was booker before Starrcade 1998, and did indeed book himself to defeat Goldberg and end his streak. This is bona fide fact.

No...it's not...Even Nash said he started booking in February of 1999.

On to the thread.

I think Kevin Nash is one of the funniest wrestlers of all time. Nash also oozed star power and every match he was basically had that big match atmosphere. Most entertaining big man of all time.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Some very good points. Another thing to keep in mind is that Nash's bad reputation was also aided by co-workers claims about his attitude and antics backstage. The phrase 'vanilla midgets' comes to mind. Nash got on the bad side of a group of wrestlers who, at the time, were very underutilized, yet went on to be very influential within the industry (and very, very over with the IWC). I am of course speaking of Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko, etc. Add that to Nash's association with HBK (himself an infamous prick at the time) and the perpetually troubled Scott Hall, and it's no wonder that Nash was cast in a negative light, which went on to influence perceptions of him for years to come. I don't doubt that some of that negative reputation was justified; he was embedded in backstage politics in WCW, at least based on what we've heard. Still, I think you're right about the man's career. There's no doubt that he was one of the biggest stars of his time.

While I wasn't a huge fan of Nash in WCW, I honestly believe that he's been one of the greatest veteran assets for TNA. Next to Angle and Jarrett, I can't think of anyone who's done more for TNA's up and coming talent than Nash.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

The Finger Poke of Doom is among the most overrated and overcriticized things in wrestling history. Here are the ratings for WCW for the two months before the Finger Poke of Doom: 4.1, 4.3, 4.5, 4.2, 4.2, 4.2, 4, and 4.6. Here are the ratings for the FPOD and the following month and a half of episodes: 5.0, 5.0, 4.4, 5.0, 4.7, and 5.7. If the FPOD so offended wrestling fans, don't you think they would have tuned out somewhat quickly? Of course. But ratings were actually BETTER in the immediate aftermath, showing it actually built up interest. The follow-up was weak after that, especially with Goldberg's dumb ass getting injured and not being able to take vengeance on the nWo. So yeah, the Finger Poke of Doom was not as big of a deal as people like to pretend like it is, usually for some Nash, Hogan, or Bischoff hating agenda.

Nash also definitely deserves respect. The guy has a long and storied career, and whether people like to admit it or not, his career is entwined with one of the hottest periods of wrestling ever, and his name will always be there, and more importantly, it BELONGS there.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think that Nash IS over-criticised but still seems to think he should be earning the biggest money today.

Nash WAS a vital cog in the nWo, probably the most revolutionary faction in wrestling history. His arrival to join Scott Hall as "invaders" was certainly key in the WCW taking the leads in the ratings war. That cannot be disputed. Nash was one of the hottest wrestlers in the business at that point. He was a major player in WCW's hottest period, and certainly deserves respect for that.

Back in his days as Diesel, I dont think of him as a bad champion. As pointed out by the OP, WWE was featuring some appalling wrestlers on their shows at that point, and people will not shell out big money to buy a show for one match (except on rare occasions). Nash was never going to be a huge financial success as champion in a situation like that, and as the OP again correctly pointed out, WWE was still beating WCW in the ratings while he was holding the title, and only dropped into 2nd place after the title switched hands.

Since WCW folded however, I believe Nash's value as an in-ring performer is dramtically reduced. I certainly think he needs to call it a day, his matches are becoming painful to watch and he can barely move. The guy is incredibly charismatic though, and I do think he needs to remain in the industry in some way, he has alot to offer as an on-screen character as long as he doesnt wrestle.

Regarding the politics...yeah he probably did use that to some extent, but he was probably the smart one. By aligning himself with other big names like HBK and Hall, Nash was able to ensure he didnt get screwed over and stood up to Vince, whereas most others were too fearful for their jobs to do so. And to those who say he is greedy? Yes he is, but at one point he did deserve the big money, and what other wrestler isnt in the business to make as much money as possible. For that matter, who in life isnt out to get as much as they can from their job? There is the bullshit about "wrestling because I love it!"...you may love it but dont lie to me and say you would turn down millions of dollars for wrestling, of course you wouldnt.

So, in conclusion, I do think Nash is over criticised, he may not have been the best wrestler ever but he had quite a few good matches, was a key member of the nWo, is probably one of the funniest, most charismatic wrestlers of the last 20 years and still could offer a lot to the business, just not as an in-ring competitor.

 

[CruelButFair]

Agree with every single thing said. I get so sick of people blaming nash for the goldberg thing. It really seems like they were not watching wrestling at that time. Wolfpac was bigtime and Nash was extremely popular. And the fact is he did NOT book that match. Nash was the only credible option to take the belt from goldberg since they already had him run thru the Giant and Hogan and pretty much everyone else with a name in the company.

Another thing i get sick of hearing is that nwo only made it cause they got hogan in it. Again, i can only assume the kids making them comments did not actually watch wrestling at that time. Hogan was stale as year old bread. Hall and Nash were a BIG deal, and their popularity was at its apex. Hogan was getting booed everytime he wrestled cause like the previously mentioned goldberg, people were sick of him beating everyone all the time. Hogan getting into the nwo rejuvinated his career, but do not make the mistake of thinking that it was him that made the nwo work. He was a big piece of the puzzle but Hall and Nash were the "In" thing and continued to be for a long time. If Bossman and Jarrett woulda formed the nwo when they came to wcw and got hogan to join, do you really think it woulda been that big? Imo no.

 

[dude_d_dude]

Everyone's making spot on points, but I only have one question...
What exactly was that whole "Goldberg punching a limo" thing all about?
I'm not spamming I seriously don't know LOL

But if we're on the topic of Nash, I always thought that should he have been a little nicer to people/fans/etc, the IWC wouldn't hate him as much. Sure the man has botched his fair share of moves and had his fair share of backstage stories but who hasn't? I think Nash mixes up blatant honesty for blatant rudeness sometimes, and if he's an ass in real life it makes him that much easier to hate.
There have been better champs than him but there have been FAR worst (Khali I'm looking at you)

 

[DeathClutch]

Nash did his stuff in WCW and should be rewarded for it, he was a major part of the nWo and the Attitude era in fairness however he's been involved in some dubious decsions like beating Goldberg only to be pinned by Hogan after a finger prod.

WWF Nash had a good run as far as championships go but as World Champion I don't believe he was a good champion. Most of his reign he feuded with guys who's skill didn't compliment Kevin's and the matches ended up looking bad, Sid, Sid/Tatanka, Mable, Bulldog the only two people he had QUALITY matches with were Bret Hart (Survivor series more so) and Shawn. The Royal Rumble was a knockdown dragout style which was Kevin's typical style but thrown in No DQ and you had a top match (Survivor Series 1995) and Shawn in fairness turned himself face in that their WrestleMania 11 match which was selfish but in hindsight kick started Shawn's 1995-1997 run, but yet again Shawn rematches Kevin in 1996 in a No DQ (No holds barred) match and again it was classic because Kevin Nash was better styled in for hardcore/street fight bouts if you don't believe me watch his 2003 feud with HHH he had a street fight at the Insurextion PPV and out of their 3 PPV matches THAT is their best match.

Personally I think he deserves respect for his WCW/nWo run no doubt but his WWF/WWE runs I believe he was in the right place at the right time, is he talented sure, but Main event talented I don't believe so (more so from 2002-present anyways) but he's got a decent bookers mind to him so he gets more brownie points for that.

He's lucky what he achieved in WWE, that said I've always wanted to see him rematch Underaker as I enjoyed their 1996 feud.

 

[TUFFY54]

Everyone's making spot on points, but I only have one question...
What exactly was that whole "Goldberg punching a limo" thing all about?
I'm not spamming I seriously don't know LOL

Shortly after the finger poke of doom, Nitro had some sort of backstage brawl. Just your typical backstage fight you see on a wrestling show. Goldberg was trying to get at the NWO in their limo. I believe he was supposed to use some piece of metal that was hidden under a shirt wrapped around his arm to break out the limo window. He either forgot the safety measures or lost it, but he didn't use the metal to break the window. He just walked up to it on camera and punched it out. He severed an artery in his arm on live TV and damn near bled to death on the way to the hospital. He was out for months and thats why the finger poke angle didn't work.

 

[therockiswwf]

He Was A Bad WWF Champion
Your right about him here. Nothing around that time was great.

He Only Achieved Success Because Of The Clique
I have never heard anyone say this, so no comment.

He's Only Famous Because He Was In The NWO
I have never heard anyone say this, so no comment.

He Didn't Put Anyone Over
In wCw I dont remember him losing much. I do remember him refusing to lose to the Big Show. He skipped the starcade he was supposed to lose to Big Show and his excuse was he had a heart attack yet he came back like a week later completely fine.

He Booked Himself To End Goldberg's Streak
He did do this. Nash says he started booking later but others have stated that he was booker by this time. Has anyone ever thought you know that Nash lied about not being the booker yet.

The Finger Poke Of Doom
This was bad for two reasons.
1. It made the already dragged out nWo comeback
2. It was also the night Mick Foley won the title with the putting asses in seat thing

He Booked WCW To Its Death
He didn't help.

He's Lazy / A Bad Worker
He is lazy and (according to a lot of people) an ass but he was also very smart. In wCw he did many things to keep him at the top which in turned made himself a shit load of money.

He's Bitter
Agree with you here.

He's Greedy
He made sure to make himself a lot of money.

No the truth is he made himself a lot of money but at the same time was an ass, lazy, kept others down, and did other crap.

 

[The Ace of Knaves]

No one man can deny the success of his career. He's a legend whether people admit it or not. And his angle with HBK & Taker circa 1995-1996 was underrated as hell. No matter what people may say, his Wrestlemania XI match with Shawn Michaels and Wrestlemania 12 match with Undertaker was back to back Wrestlemania classics.

And as Diesel, he was perhaps the finest monster heel in The New Generation Era alongside Sid, then again Sid rose to the top of the food chain from 1996 to 1997 AFTER Diesel/Nash left the company. Nash is also very over with the crowd and had the best mic skill a big guy can ever posses. Need I say he's the most legendary monster heel alongside Andre The Giant & Masked Kane? Comparing him to current monster heels like Sheamus or Ezekiel Jackson is like comparing Christoper Nolan to Uwe Boll.

 

[Hitman-HBK United Inc.]

The way I see it, a lot of Smarks like to stand out by being "un-trendy" when it comes to wrestling, but the fact is they're just as trendy as every fan. Much like hating Nickelback has become a trend in music, hating Kevin Nash has become a trend among smarks. While they do make some good points about him at times, to me it's just become a trend.

One thing a lot of people complain about is that Nash "didn't pay his dues enough", but yet people say the Miz did! Well funny, because Nash had been wrestling about the same amount of time, the Miz had, when he won his first world title. Fact is Nash did have appeal as Diesel, he was a tough ass-kicking heel, who looked and played the part, fans dig that (see: Batista, Dave). He had a natural charisma, and was actually good on the stick. PS Nash had to wrestle as OZ, if that isn't paying something, I don't know what is!

He was starting to slowly draw positive reactions after his performance in the 1994 Royal Rumble, which people still talk about to this day. Then after winning both the I-C and Tag Belts, he turns face. All fine and good...but then wins the belt a week later??? If you ask me, a new babyface needs a feud and program to build up for at least a couple months to really etch him in that light. When Jake Roberts turned babyface in 1987, he had the Honky Tonk Man to help him etch his name in stone as a babyface. Nash had a week, to buildup his impending feud with Bob Backlund, sure it turned some heads, but still, too much too soon after just turning to the otherside. Turns didn't happen every week back then....they still meant something.

So now to truly market Diesel as a babyface, you need a good first opponent to put him over, someone who can mesh well with him from a storyline standpoint, as well as make him look good in the ring? What heel could do that? Shawn Michaels of course....but wait, due to there major split up, and Shawn being propelled into the main event, that was being saved for 'Mania. Fair enough. How about a rematch with Bob Backlund? And build up a storyline where Shawn will be in his corner, as they can start the whole thing about Shawn working ten years to get to the top, and Diesel didn't have to work near as long, thus Shawn saying Diesel doesen't deserve to win the championship, and he'll lend Backlund the support. That might work. But what did the WWF do...Diesel vs. Bret "The Hitman" Hart.....ok, so let me get this straight, you're trying to get your new babyface champion, over as the biggest in the company and you stick him with the guy who's been the top babyface for two years, and near the top of the babyface heap even longer than that? That was a big mistake. Now, yes from a storyline standpoint, Bret getting the match made perfect sense, but not what Diesel needed.

The match at Rumble '95, was phenomenal, and showed the world that Diesel could cut it in the ring. A word on Nash's ability in the ring of I may....do smarks EXPECT him to be a marvel technician? If they do, they have no business watching any big guys wrestle. Nash had a style that worked for him, end of story. He wasn't paid to be a technician, as a matter of fact, Nash said in an RF Shoot, that he tried to chain wrestle with Backlund at house shows, and it looked plain awful, and Vinny Mac told him to stick to his powerhouse manuvers.

I digress back to the Rumble, so in his first big title defence despite a great showing, the match was a NO-CONTEST/DRAW. Yes, he didn't even win. But of course he didn't, Bret was still Vince's top merchandise mover, as well as his big draw overseas, and needed to protect him. So this was a major Catch-22 for WWF. Diesel was doomed right out of the gate....

Then there was another problem...what happened to Diesel the badass? Now he was just a menacing 7 foot smiling babyface. That's not what fans wanted to see, they wanted to see the badass Diesel. The feud with Shawn was built around Shawn, Diesel didn't seem as meaningful to the match as Shawn did. Plus Shawn's arrogant persona, started garnering a cult following. So we all know the story, Shawn works his ass off to steal the thunder, and never has a Superkick meant so much in destroying someone, when Diesel got his shoulder up, and the crowd REALLLY shit on it. The way the story of this whole thing between the two was going, you actually felt BAD for Shawn when he lost. So of course, Shawn was turned babyface, and due to everything that built up to 'Mania, and the stuff I stated before...this reign couldn't be salvaged.

At this time, the WWF was STACKED in terms of top popular babyfaces, Bret, 'Taker, Razor, Diesel and now Shawn. But it seemed as though (to me anyway), Diesel ranked BELOW all of them, even Shawn now. His feud with Sid stunk, as did the matches and PPV buys. A feud with King Mabel...I don't see how Nash could be faulted for that, nobody bought Mabel as a main event guy, and he was terrible to watch. Nash is the kind of guy you need to throw someone in the ring with that has chemistry with him. He was doomed for the rest of the year, he had a nice tag team with Shawn, an uninteresting feud with the British Bulldog, who had zero chemistry with Diesel.

Do you know when Diesel truly started catching on...when he snapped after Survivor Series after losing the belt to Bret, declaring "I'M BACK!" His reactions seemed stronger, and his PPV's with Bret & Shawn drew better than many of his previous main events as a babyface.....but of course, of to WCW he went, just when WWF finally GOT IT with him.

Now everyone, the nWo, do I need to go into detail? I really don't, it was phenomenal drew big bucks for WCW, turned them around, nearly put WWF into the ground. Need I go on? BUUUT...yes by 1998, it was overkill, but the angle would not have worked without Hall & Nash kicking it off together!

See despite his apparent failures as a draw, he was still a top guy in WWF for nearly 2 years, and he's still known. Why do you think people are finally taking to John Morrison now? Because he beat Sheamus, who despite barely drawing half a penny on PPV, was still seen as a main event guy due to the exposure.

And in mid-1998, when the Wolfpack thing was happening (which I didn't like but whatever), Nash was EXTREMELY popular as a babyface, he was one of the most over faces in the company. They dug his cool persona. Now call me crazy, but I actually ENJOYED some of his matches with The Giant. His matches with Hall weren't that good, but looking at them, Hall was really dragging his ass in there.

Now of course, people cite his backstage politics, yes, I'll agree with just about anyone there. And yes, the decisions he made as a booker, were all very questionable, and at times downright moronic. Now according to Nash, his ending Goldberg's streak, was without a doubt, dumb. And Goldberg cites that Nash booked himself to do that, but Nash claims that he wasn't on the booking team until February of 1999.....the way I see it, Nash was already in the booking teams ear at this point, if he was on the team not long after Starrcade...so I have to call that into question!

At times Nash dellusional in his justification of things...saying how people were already chanting Goldberg sucks in some arenas! So what! Who was making more money for WCW at that time? Nobody!

Now, it was around this time Nash gained the nickname, Big Lazy. Well, I personally thought the matches with him and Goldberg were quite good, and they had a surprising chemistry in the ring. His matches with DDP sucked yes, as did his matches with Savage, who in my opinion had NO business in a wrestling ring at that point, and so did his Road Wild match with Hogan....but umm, wasn't Hogan also at an all time low in ring work? If you're going to blame Nash, you'd have to blame Hogan too. There were times where Nash dragged it, true, but I don't think he did everytime, and I don't think he should take ALL of the blame.

Sometimes Nash is dellusional about his contributions to the business...he brags about how he put over Rey Mysterio, and I think he only did that in effort to shut the smarks up. But here's the thing, putting someone over, and jobbing to them are two completely and vastly different things. Mysterio's charachter was DESTROYED when he lost the mask. And what did it do for Mysterio afterwards? Nothing, he was just in the same place he always was. Putting over someone means, you truly do something for there careers...for example, Bret Hart didn't even LOSE to Steve Austin, and Austin looked all the more better despite being on the losing end. THAT'S putting someone over.

I mean, Santino beat Sheamus...so what, what did it really do for Santino, he's still popular, but did it move him higher on the card? Sheamus actually put John Morrison OVER, and now Morrison's drawing the biggest pops of his career.

Nash always seems to have a reason for everything yes....and he's also become quite critical these days. While Nash may be cited as the last person to criticize anyone, he does often make good points, but I do think some of his justifications of certain incidents are downright laughable.

So in closing...Nash IS a legend, because he ended up being a success in the business after a year of failing as a main eventer, but looking back, it ended up doing him good in the long run, it gave him enough credibility to help the nWo work.

I do think Nash deserves SOME flack especially for his latter WCW days, but sometimes I just think many are grasping straws with certain crticisms about him!

 

[THE SWAG]

very good thread, i agree with everything you said, and he was at the forefront for one of the biggest moments in pro wrestling, and he has been one of my faves since he was vinnie vegas

 

[The Eighties]

Nash is an interesting one, the only top guy I know of that openly admits he wasn't much of a worker, and while he likes to point out his genuine overness, I've rarely seen him lay claim to being a huge draw, he always gives Hogan and the NWO gimmick the bulk of the credit, however he and Hall were the catalyst and for my money the only two guys from the WWF that could have made the inception of that angle work.

What was and still is unique about Nash is he has the looks, charisma and mic skills of a top babyface but is a giant. If you look throughout history the near 7 footers are always monstrous looking types, or at the best just average and most have had moutpieces do their talking.

Nash the wrestler:
Despite his own self deprication he wasn't a bad worker in his prime, he understood the art of working as a big man, something lost a lot in today's wrestling. Sure he needed someone good in with him to have good matches but that is standard for his limited style., and his trilogy with Bret and matches with Shawn were all high points in WWE's match catalogue of the 90's.

He didn't draw:
True, he wasn't an overly succesful draw as champion and I wouldn't say he was the main reason the NWO drew but he was a factor. However in WWE he had no one to really work with, the companies two best opponents for him were face's.

If you look at his 94 booking from the Rumble to him being Bret's first PPV defense at KOTR you see where he could have drawn as champion, as a big badass heel, a monster unlike any other given his look and charisma, essentially if he had been booked the way he was towards the end of his WWF run I'd wager he would have drawn consideranlty better.

He played politics:
Newsflash! So has every other top name in the history of the business.

He's lazy:
In the latter days of WCW this was true.

He booked himself over Goldberg:
There are so many versions of this story out there no one in this thread can make a definitive statement on the incident. I will just say Bobby Heenan's view was that whoever booked that was an idiot, I tend to put a lot of stock in his views on the business.

Conclusion:
Nash is one of the top names in the history of the business, his best work was in the WWF when it came to the ring, but booking-wise WCW used him a lot better, although you could say even they didn't really maximise his potential on the singles front as many big fueds he could have had never happened.

When all is said and done he will be remembered as a decent big man who was smart enough to make a lot of money and was part of one of the biggest angles in wrestling history. He came through the hard way and was likable enough whilst at times being a bit of an asshole. He's not amongst the ring greats or the biggest draws but he is a memorable as the coolest giant to ever set foot in the business.

 

[K Bro 30]

I think the whole argument about how Nash drew depends on your argument about how influential he was in the nWo. Reality is those nWo shirts sold a lot, and then once the Wolfpack formed, the nWo red and black shirts were filling the stands as well. He was a World Champion in WCW during their ratings win streak, and he could cut it on the mic.

I don't think the nWo is the same if the Giant does not get Powerbombed through the stage. I think that his success as both a singles and tag wrestler needs to be noted. 6-time world champion, I believe he belongs in the HOF. And soon.

I understand I'm a bigger Nash fan than most people who probably have an opinion on this site, but there is no denying that he is one of the greatest and most influential big men of all time.

 

[byrnside]

I liked Nash, some of his hate comes from the fact that he was one of the reasons WCW got ran to the ground.

Although he was part of it, you can't really blame that on Nash. WCW on the whole was ran very poorly and without Bischoff, was ran by people who had little or nothing to do with wrestling. So they let Nash and Hogan and a host of others come on to the creative team to call the shots. They couldn't make consistant decisions and so many angles were left without finishes and so many guys were lost in the shuffle.

I don't care what anyone says, Nash was a draw as one of the leaders of the nWo. As Brain touched on earlier, the nWo was a huge success because of most of us that are old enough to have watched it, weren't very old at the time and there was hardly any internet either so what we thought we were seeing was Razor Ramon and Diesel invading and trying to take over the show, which was awesome and so revolutionary. As an avid WWF fan I thought it was so cool. As I've said so many times before on the endless nWo threads that have been posted..

The fact remains that it was Hall and Nash that won me over, I don't think one would have made the angle successful without the other. That combined with Hogan turning heel for the first time in two decades is what made the nWo successful right out of the gate. The nWo angle ran stale after a while but I don't think that was because of Nash necessarily.

 

[Push]

Thank goodness Nash went to Atlanta along with Hall. Nash got to show much more of his personality as an nWo member. A lot of his charisma/mic skills were wasted having to confirm to the guidelines set by the Diesel gimmick.