CM Punk is not....

[Pay Per Ghost]

the best brawler, or the best technician and he certainly is not the best at aerial offence!

Now boys and girls trust this is not me being a typical smark and saying OMFG hez so overrated, I have hated Punk's elbow with a passion since day one. Hell! Big Show did a better elbow at TLC was it? Punk has always had his best matches with three people in my opinion, 1. Cena: Because Cena brings the big fight atmosphere and gives it that electric ambience, 2. D. Bryan: Simply because Bryan is a much better technician and more fluid in his holds and his flow from one move to another is way better, 3. Orton: Orton is a damn damn good wrestler, and the end of NOC should tell you how he wins fans over.



However, Punk is the best talker but that is the premise of another thread I will soon make, but here I shall summarize it for you where I am going with this one... ANYBODY CAN SHOOT!


You know what's tougher? For a guy to be burdened with a god damn gimmick kilt and having to work with that as a heel. Sounds easy now because we know how great Rowdy Piper is, but when you are given bagpipes to fiddle with, well, you got your work cut out. Listen we all get giddy when anyone shoots. Be it Matt Hardy, Paul Heyman, Vince Russo....scratch that, not him. There is nothing that great about a shoot unless there is real conviction and passion and the ability to talk backing it. Punk has all that...and here's the deal, so does Cena. Cena ripped and I mean ripped Punk a new one on the Raw before NOC. The colors, the stolen elbow, how boring the title scene has been after Extreme Rules everything, how boring Punk was till he decided to shoot and here is my questions fans...

Was Punk always gonna be a boring dullard unless he became this straight-shootin' mouthy prick? ​

 

[I am Mr. Excitement]

I don't know man. I am a CM Punk fan as well and not one of those Punk fans who jizz in there pants everytime he's on the screen. John Cena every week makes CM Punk look bad and it's true. Punk is just too big of a pussy to be the tweener. He could be if he wanted to with Paul Heyman right now. But you never know the storyline could lead to something different. But Punk is great as a heel, good as a face, and excellent as a tweener. But I dont know its really because Vince doesn't want to show edgy television it's TV-PG. But if he would have stayed with the tweener istead of going full baby face nobody would have any complaints about CM Punk.

 

[Mikechase69]

Please just shut up, My god your post is just full of fail and it just seems like something someone who just started watching during that god awful Cena promo. Let me just run down your points.

1. No Cena doesn't bring that "big fight" atmosphere all of his matches have that same feel to them where you just have this sick feeling knowing that the guy will no sell moves and make a crappy comeback and over come the odds and wins, or when he does lose it won't be clean it will be under some circumstance to make him "look strong".

2. I wouldn't deny this point and I doubt Punk would.

3. Orton is boring as hell always was and still is everything about the guy is robotic from his promo and to his matches.

And once again that promo before NoC sucked badly it was your typical Cena screaming at the top of his lungs making down right stupid points. And what the hell is up with people on the IWC? You guys talk about wrestling like the stuff is real.

 

[keehlnate]

He is the best talker definitely. No one can touch him with the mic on his hands and even on commentary.

He is the best technician (?). Perhaps. If you consider Daniel Bryan as the best technician right now, then CM Punk is not one step behind.

CM Punk can be the best only if he doesn't have that wimp body. If he only have the physique of Cena or even Orton's then he can be the best. That's his only flaw. I guess.

 

[Desyar]

I wouldn't say he's the best talker. He's nowhere near The Rock or Y2J's level in terms of talking. He's good but not the best. I would say he's one of the best technicians though.

I just hope WWE doesn't drop the ball with Punk's current heel character. So far I find this new character to be dull. And associating a good talker like Punk with Paul Heyman just doesn't make any sense...

 

[Nate DaMac]

I sort of agree with some of your points. I think. He does work exceptionally well with Cena, Daniel Bryan, and Orton, but that's the outcome when you put 2 exceptional workers in the ring together. He also had a good match with Triple H and had a great series of matches with Jericho. He's also pulled some decent matches out of subpar opponents like Ziggler.

I'm also with you on the whole "Shoot" thing to an extent. It has to be a little easier to do a promo when you're intentionally breaking the fourth wall. However, it's also the reason I'm more impressed with his current character. What's he doing isn't a shoot anymore, he's playing a character. He's using classic heel traits, not pulling away the curtain, and his current feud with Cena is just as entertaining as the first one, if not more so.

I don't really care whether or not he's the best brawler, technician, or aerial whatever, those are just buzzwords to get heat. Obviously, it's working. I doubt he really cares either.

 

[WWE4EVA]

CM Punk is not the best technical wrestler??? REALLY??? Ziggler is sup par?? REALLY? Is this a thread with a bunch of 13 yr olds? Punk is by far one of the BEST technical wrestlers in WWE, along with D Bryan and d Ziggler. When was the last time Ziggler had a bad match? Don't worry I'll wait until u figure that one out...ok he had one bad match as part of the spirit squad. But back to Punk, Punk is the best CURRENT talker in the WWE. As a matter of fact i think he would be better if wwe would just let him write his own material. As far as who he has the best matches with, of course d. Bryan is number one, they've worked together for YEARS in ROH. Experience with a person will give u a great match each time. same reason why edge vs Cena worked so well, they trained together b4 the "feud" on TV. Cena is a bullshit entertainer, he's NOT a wrestler, he doesnt kno much about the wrestling business or the technique. Now dont get me wrong, im not thrilled about the pairing of Heyman and Punk, I personally think Punk doesnt need him and a up n coming star (like Ziggler) would benefit more from having Heyman as a manager than Punk, but i dont work for WWE so my ideas and opinons dont mean sh*t. So basically, stop slamming Punk, he's been carrying the WWE on his back for the past year as champ and he is outearning Cena as the top seller in the company. He's doing his JOB as his BOSS tells him to, and anyone over the age of 18 with a job understands that u may not always agree with the boss, but u damn sure always do wat he says.

 

[DirtyJosé]

I really don't know what is worse at this point...

The instant-fix "HE SAVED WRESTLING" fanboys who figured he'd be like Cena only not be so "Cena", or the "Just a shoot guy/talker/overrated/blah" guys who think that being good in a one or two areas means that he must be absolute trash in everything else.

Ultimately, it comes down to a problem symptomatic to our times and our world beyond wrestling in which everything is very quickly either "BEST EVAR!" or "WORST EVAR!". There is no "middle class" so to speak, or at least they are very quiet (possibly because they are being entertained?). I suppose I might be making a bigger deal about this than needs to be, and I might actually be falling into the same trap I'm laying out here, but I'm looking back at all my heroes and anti-heroes in wrestling from the past and I'm seeing that they too specialized in a small handful of things which shined so much that it helped hide the shortcomings in the other areas.

HBK could "sell", but I've never EVER been impressed with him on the mic. And outside of a few high-profile angles, I've never known him to be able to carry much of anything, let alone the company, without tons of drama and petty behavior on his part. Of course, we still call him a Legend, and rightfully so.

I guess my point is that the "IWC" needs to stop talking about the "IWC" as if they aren't a part of it. If you are here and reading this, you are the "IWC" regardless of whether you like Cena or not or whatever else they divide over. Many people like Punk. Many don't. He seems to be impressing the right people inside and outside the company, as one doesn't get a run like this without having earned it. If it seems like people are crazy one way or another about Punk and talk about it too much, it's because not enough full-fledged stars are being made these days and so any breakthrough is going to have all eyes on them.

I'd really like to end it their without being dragged into silly Non-Spam zone topics, but I really really can't go without one other thing: Cena's "ripping (Punk) a new one". I saw no such thing. It was actually worse than the banter between Rock and Cena leading into WM. Sorry, but this is wrestling and boys having been "ripping each other off" for longer than any of us have been alive. Cena's as guilty of it as anyone else on the roster. The people who bought into that promo are the same ones guilty of the behavior I described earlier.

 

[TheHorndogSays]

I absolutely LOVED his SES promos a few years back as I felt they were the best thing in WWE at the time. Him cutting a promo during the royal rumble during that time was absolutely brilliant. So to answer your question succinctly, no he would not be "boring" without the straight shoot, however I do feel that he would not be viewed as the same level of John Cena.

Now I am one that feels that his "pipe bomb" was the best promo I've ever heard. In one 5 minute promo he made himself an instant star, hyped the upcoming match, made fans want to tune in the following week to see what would happen, and if I'm not mistaken created so much buzz that Wrestlezone's server could not handle the massive amount of traffic that night and the site was temporarily shut down as a result. With all of that said, I DO feel that John Cena is the better talker. Eric Bischoff said it best, Cena is the best talker in wrestling history and considering Bischoff is tight with Hogan, that's saying something. The one thing I think Cena excels at over Punk is Cena can cut a promo that gives a big fight feel (or a BIGGER fight feel) to any match he's involved in.

 

[dotty_84]

That promo on Raw before NOC was awesome credit to all involved but everyone saying Cena blew him away are wrong. If you look at the promo punk mentions how Cena when he speaks in french to the Canadians lowers himself. Which in itself is true but he's a face so he can Cena to me tries to hard to pander to everyone but to his credit he puts in the effort.

Also Cena rips on Punk for the elbow, we all know that's in respect to Randy Savage. Punk could have easily have defended that you also notice how punk never mentioned 5 moves of doom or how the 5 knuckle shuffle is a signature move based on the peoples elbow. Punk set up Cena to go all out on the final word. Punk doesn't retort but if you look at Punks actions he seems like he goes back into his shell then goes for a sucker punch on Hart. It was brilliant Punk played heel to perfection Cena played face to perfection.

Punk really winds people up with this best in the world, you love him, you talk about him but even the haters rip him. No press like bad press and that goes for fans talking about him on the net. He's being talked about and i think for him that's a good thing.

 

[sanefan_har]

Its obvious you're anti punk, or just dont know how the business works. Seriously, people were more interested in Punk-D Bry than Cena-Laurinitis. The reaction for the match was pathetic compared to Punk D-Bry. And Punk has put up good matches with Jeff Hardy, John Morisson and other guys in ECW. Not just Cena, D-Bry and Orton. You're just a dillusioned attention seeker. I agree Punk isn't the best, but who else comes that close. Cena??? Hell No. D-Bry? Possibly. Randy Orton?? Hell No.

 

[slodgeball]

CM Punk is a very equipped superstar, even though he is a good babyface, he is much better at being a heel. He is very decent on the Mic, probably one of the best in WWE today. His in-ring skills are solid and can pull off very good matches, the only problem with Punk is his size, if he could have a better look rather than looking like a pin, then he would get so much more credit.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

What's wrong with Punk calling himself "the best"? Flair did it, Hart did it, HBK did it, Macho Man did it, Y2J did it, Austin did it, Rock did it, Triple H did it, Randy Orton's done it and so have any number of memorable heel wrestlers throughout wrestling. Trying to suggest that CM Punk doesn't belong in that level of company based on his abilities is laughable. People can always debate as to who really is "the best" and all that crap, but don't let the warm & fuzzy feelings of wrestlers you loved, and continue to love, growing up delude you into thinking that CM Punk isn't as talented as any of those men I just mentioned. The fact that we were growing up when we were watching those guys in their prime doesn't automatically render some superhuman quality upon them that nobody else in this day & age can touch. I get that some people aren't into Punk just like some aren't into every other wrestler. But give credit where it's due even if you're not into the guy.

I read a comment somewhere in which someone said that Cena makes Punk look bad each week. How exactly? Because they're not doing everything that you personally believe they should? In promo confrontations, how often does the babyface come out as ultimately "looking better"? Almost every single time that I can think of. CM Punk isn't trying to be the "cool heel" that internet fans think is so great to cheer for, thereby thumbing their noses at convention in some lame attempt to convince themselves that they're edgy. Punk's playing an asshole, plain and simple, and John Cena is playing the guy that's not. Sure it's simplistic, but that tends to be the way most people want to see confrontations play out. It's been that way in theater for millenia, it's that way for television shows, for movies, etc. It's great to have characters that walk the line in that gray area of good and bad, but they don't make up the bread and butter of entertainment. If anything, WWE has portrayed Punk & Cena as pretty close to equals in my eyes. They had another fantastic match at NOC in which they threw everything at each other and neither of them actually won. This past Monday, Punk was "screwed" out of a victory by a questionable call from a ref, thus giving him something legit to gripe about. If you want an example of a feud in which someone looked bad against John Cena, look at Alberto Del Rio. They made Del Rio look like a total chump against Cena and it's cost him momentum that he still hasn't quite recovered to this day. There's a difference between a babyface getting the upper hand in a feud every once in a while and making his opponent look completely inept. I dunno why there are so many extremes on topics like this. For instance, if a guy loses then it means his push is over. If a guy loses, especially if he's a heel, then he looks bad. If a guy loses cleanly, then it means he's got heat backstage with someone higher up.

All this talk about "the best" is nothing more than yet another pro wrestler using buzz words to get a response. CM Punk recieved big pops as a face when he said them and now he generates a lot of heat as a heel when he says them. Who "the best" overall truly is can never be answered. Whether or not Punk is thought of as among one of the "all time greats" can only be answered by the passage of time. To say that he's not among the very best, possibly the best, overall in wrestling today is whether you're a fan of him or not is kind of laughable.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Was Punk always gonna be a boring dullard unless he became this straight-shootin' mouthy prick?

I don't think so. His SES stuff was unique and original; it took someone with his speaking ability to bring it off.....and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had ample input on the creative end. A few guys on the roster are able to speak as they will during promos (Triple H, Rock, etc) while everyone else has to stick to the script. Somewhere along the line, Phil Brooks earned the right to be one of the chosen few who can say it the way they want.

To that end, in addressing the OP point that "anyone can shoot" I'd add that it takes an extra dose of glibness and creativity to appear to be shooting when actually bringing a pre-arranged program to the mic. To this day, we debate whether last years Summer of Punk was a spontaneous outpouring of true feelings.....or whether the whole thing was planned. Naturally, many on this forum claim to really "know" what happened, but none of us really do.

Now, that's an effective turn of events, and it took an exceptional performer to bring it. Whether one thinks he backs it up in the ring is almost beside the point.

 

[Phil]

Really pisses me off when fans speak about a 'shoot or promo' between two wrestlers. The WHOLE show is f'n scripted just like Eastenders or some sh*t like Jersey Shore. There told what to say to each other, Cena's not really having a dig about his elbow or coloured trunks mate. As in executing a good promo i.e not screwing up there lines and speaking clearly with some believability in what he is saying, then yes Punk is better than anyone on the CURRENT roster, with a stick. Every single f'n so called 'pipe bomb' was written down on a peice of paper by probably someone really high up backstage, or a greasy fat dude that works in creative. Daniel Bryan defiantly tells a better story in the ring, I think Punk makes his moves look REAL to an extent but Bryan looks like he is hurting his opponent which we ALL know he actually isn't, only with the slightest amount of contact.
What is technical when we speak about wrestling? Submissions, holds, smoothness, selling a move or the execution of a move and not physically hurting you're oppenent? Breaking it down, clearly Bryan is the best Submission wrestler, Ziggler for selling moves and smoothness in the ring. To be honest who is the best story teller in the WWE nowadays? My poinion theres only a small group of 5/6 that can tell a story on the big stage nowadays. If you want to talk about the best at such and such then break it down into sections dude.

 

[Skinsley]

This thread really takes the biscuit when it comes to garbage and stupidity.
John Cena made CmPunk look bad? No shit! its Face vs Heel and it's not all totally Adlib.

Does CmPunk think he is the best at EVERY aspect in wrestling? or was he making a Heel like comment?

Give me a break....this thread doesn't even hold any relevance until the OP realises this is Fiction.

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Punk didn't shoot on raw,it was a fucking promo you idiot.Nobody shoots in this era.Nothing happens without the consent of vince.After getting that clear on topic,is punk the best?Hell no!Is he one of the best?Hell yeah!To think punk is not worthy to be on the top is foolish.He's definately one of the best allround pro-wrestler in the world.When he was a face,he acted like one.Now that he's a heel,he's acting like a classic old school one.The current heels in the roster should take notes from that.He's not trying to act cool in the eyes of the one's who add little to nothing in the company.He was a good talker in the past.His SES,New Nexus work shows that.Only cena can match punk on mic in the current roster.Technically he's very good.At times he can be sloppy,but many greats have been so.He still is able to provide good matches.He may not draw like cena,but still draws more than 98% of the active roster.His feud with hardy in 2009 was that years 2nd best after cena-orton.To call him the best is idiotic.But so is calling him overrated and good for nothing.

 

[#MrScissorsKick]

Punk can talk, theres no doubt in anyones mind that he's a terrible speaker he's good. I'm not a fan of punk but you're right he isn't the best aerial attacker and probably not the best technical wrestler ever but he's damn good. I mean I can't stand the guy at all but he's the kryptonight to john cenas Superman. He is the perfect guy to be cenas rival. Was he always going to be dull? I don't think so. He's a natural arrogant, cocky guy so one way or another he was gunna rise to the top in a undetermined amount of time

 

[refuses_to_job]

cm punk only has fans cause he was in ROH and everyone thinks they're cool if they like him because of that. Same thing with Daniel Bryan. They also think everytime he's on the mic he's shooting and they need to realize that nobody shoots anymore since wrestling is all real now. Most people who love cm punk are 17 years old anyway and think its cool to be straightedge but then they realize that Rob Van Dam can do 20 more moves than CM punk and he smokes weed so heck, why not? (dont watch the Jake Roberts movie kids)

 

[Mantis]

Whether Punk is the best brawler, talker, etc is debatable, but he's a heel and exaggerated boasting is what heels do.

 

[RD_21]

Oh look, a CM Punk hater who will again try to convince me that CM Punk is not good and I'm wrong to like him.

You can "not get" CM Punk all you want, but it doesn't mean that we are wrong for liking him or you are wrong for hating (or not liking if you prefer) him.

I was a CM Punk fan when he started on WWECW and was doing the most interesting every week in all WWE programs with his feud with JoMo there, so I didn't jump on board when he did his pipebomb like so many, I just like him and for me he's the best thing in wrestling with Daniel Bryan, but it doesn't mean it needs to be the same for you.

I just hate people who will make a counter agressive post to the blind fan of a wrestler as much as I hate people who are blind fan of a wrestler.

 

[braveh]

He is not a good babyface, he does not have great signature moves, his finishing move is bad, is catchphrase is bad........but occasionally he has been a great heel. No question about it. Very overrated in IWC world though.

 

[Darkseifer330]

the best brawler, or the best technician and he certainly is not the best at aerial offence!

Now boys and girls trust this is not me being a typical smark and saying OMFG hez so overrated, I have hated Punk's elbow with a passion since day one. Hell! Big Show did a better elbow at TLC was it? Punk has always had his best matches with three people in my opinion, 1. Cena: Because Cena brings the big fight atmosphere and gives it that electric ambience, 2. D. Bryan: Simply because Bryan is a much better technician and more fluid in his holds and his flow from one move to another is way better, 3. Orton: Orton is a damn damn good wrestler, and the end of NOC should tell you how he wins fans over.



However, Punk is the best talker but that is the premise of another thread I will soon make, but here I shall summarize it for you where I am going with this one... ANYBODY CAN SHOOT!


You know what's tougher? For a guy to be burdened with a god damn gimmick kilt and having to work with that as a heel. Sounds easy now because we know how great Rowdy Piper is, but when you are given bagpipes to fiddle with, well, you got your work cut out. Listen we all get giddy when anyone shoots. Be it Matt Hardy, Paul Heyman, Vince Russo....scratch that, not him. There is nothing that great about a shoot unless there is real conviction and passion and the ability to talk backing it. Punk has all that...and here's the deal, so does Cena. Cena ripped and I mean ripped Punk a new one on the Raw before NOC. The colors, the stolen elbow, how boring the title scene has been after Extreme Rules everything, how boring Punk was till he decided to shoot and here is my questions fans...

Was Punk always gonna be a boring dullard unless he became this straight-shootin' mouthy prick? ​

I read this and I laughed. Cena couldn't rip a sheet of wet paper in a promo much less rip Punk. Punk has never really been boring in my eyes because it was either his matches or his promos that caught my attention. The only reason why Punk's title scene was a flat was because creative put Punk in the back seat to crappy matches and storylines( Cena vs Laurinitis/Big Show). Not hating on Cena but you seem to give Punk less credit than he deserves and if you're saying Cena is better than him, you really have to reassure yourself. Punk is legit good and Cena is only good because he's friendly with the kids and charities.

 

[#tamale]

Someone said it earlier, CM Punk is being an asshole. Not the cool internet heel, but just an asshole. The type of guy who doesn't care about his matches, always talks about how great he is, holds the title up in the ring for minutes and minutes until we cut into commercial break, etc. I still don't see why some people continue to treat him as a face.

As far as CM Punk being great? Yes, he is an excellent pro wrestler. His work with Cena right now has been gold. Yet, it does take more then one person to make a storyline work, and Cena has been making top storylines for years. Also, it is true, he has had more high profile matches then anyone on the roster dating back to I believe WM 22 when he made Triple H tap, which nobody expected. From there on it was:

RVD - One Night Stand
Shawn Michaels - WM 23
Royal Rumble 2008
Batista - SS 2008 and WM
Chris Jericho - Survivor Series
CM Punk - MITB and NOC
The Rock - WM

All very high profile, intense, engaging matches and I'm sure I'm missing a few. So does Cena bring that "big fight" atmosphere? Yes, but when he has a great opponent, the level increases.

 

[braveh]

The only reason why Punk's title scene was a flat was because creative put Punk in the back seat to crappy matches and storylines( Cena vs Laurinitis/Big Show).

Not true. Creative said to Punk, take it away be yourself, it's your stage. It is his fault. He is not a good babyface. Own up to it.