Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

#hamler

That's all folks.
Don't laugh, it's serious.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody religion. FSM was created in 2005 by Oregon State physics graduate Bobby Henderson. FSM was originally intended to protest against the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to permit the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public schools. In an letter sent to the Kansas State Board of Education, Henderson parodied the concept of intelligent design by professing belief in a supernatural creator that resembles spaghetti and meatballs.

Henderson called for his "Pastafarian" (pasta and Rastafarian) theory of creation to be allowed equal time in science classrooms alongside intelligent design and evolution. He explained that since the intelligent design movement uses references to an unspecified "Intelligent Designer", anything could fill that void, including a Flying Spaghetti Monster. After Henderson published the letter on his website, it quickly became an Internet phenomenon and a symbol for the case against religion and the tecahing of intelligent design in schools.

Bobby Henderson said:
I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

Pastafarian belief is that an invisible and undetectable Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. Pirates are seen as the original Pastafarians, and Pastafarians instists that a decline in the number of pirates over the years has resulted in a steady rise in global temperature.

Pastafarians celebrate every Friday as a holy day. Their holidays include Ramendan Pastover, International Talk Like a Pirate Day and a holiday similer to Christmas. This is hilarious but I understand their meaning-- to basically make fun of religious people. Me being an athiest, I see what they're getting at but I some how find it disrespectful a bit. But everyone in America is entitled to their own beliefs, that's where you come in;


-Is this guy full of shit?

-Do you find this type of protest, disrespectful to religious people?

-Is this Organization Justified?



And a pic.
Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

Discuss this shit.
 
Of course, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a pile of nonsense but then many of the arguments used to teach intelligent design are equally nonsensical.

Does religion have a place in the classroom? I think so, so long as it is treated as a intellectual subject on its own rather than a doctrine and certainly not as part of science.

Some people will find it disrespectful but to me it is not a protest specifically against religion in itself but against the encroachment of religion in science lessons. Because of that, it is important for the integrity of science to be able to fight back against overly zealous religious types who find themselves in charge of the education system and the only way seems to be to play them at their own game and that is what the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is. The zealots cannot come out and say categorically that intelligent design is about God so that leaves room to picture that intelligent designer however you want, and at the same time make a mockery of what is a controversial subject.
 
-Is this guy full of shit?
Full of shit the way any comedian is I suppose.
-Do you find this type of protest, disrespectful to religious people?
Disrespectful towards Religion. If people get offended, they need to find a sense of humor.
-Is this Organization Justified?
Yeah. The Church tend to stick it's nose into everyone's business, and I don't think a little shoving back hurts.
Ofcourse you're talking to a Pastafarian... :p
 
The church is satire, plain and simple. It's a commentary on how ludicrous certain religions, namely Christianity, can be, and it's a much more effective protest than most of the tired Atheist vs. Christian rhetoric.

Is it disrespectful to religious people? Well, to some, but that's not a problem, nor is it new. Some people will be offended by just about anything, and something diametrically opposed to Christianity will obviously offend some. Just because religion has always been a touchy subject, that doesn't mean that no one's allowed to take the piss out of it from time to time. Parody and satire have become staples of this generation, and this organization is a testament to that. The Flying Spaghetti Monster could just as easily have been featured on South Park.

The organization is justified, just like any other religious or pseudo-religious organization. No one has the right to say which thoughts and beliefs are invalid. The Church is using the powerful tool of satire to get a point across, and that's a much more desirable M.O. than the many "legitimate" churches out there that use fear or hate as opposed to humor.
 
-Is this guy full of shit?

I wouldn't say full of shit; More as to a ridiculing of religion and more importantly, Intelligent Design. The first paragraph in the OP says it all. It's original intention was to be a satirical protest to the teaching of Intelligent Design alongside Evolution in the Kansas State Board of Education. It's a mere poke at religion and intellectual design.

-Do you find this type of protest, disrespectful to religious people?

I guess to an extent. I'm pretty sure many religious people (i.e. Christians) take offence to such nonsense. But then again, that's the point of this satire--to ridicule said people. Though, it should be dully noted that people will tend to take offence to alot of things. Just look at the term "Merry Christmas." People take offence to that because you do not say "Happy Holidays" instead.

-Is this Organization Justified?

Sure it is. It's just like any other religion. However idiotic and absurd it may sound, people have the right to believe whatever it is that they want to. I have my own beliefs; you have your own beliefs; Christians have their own beliefs; Mormons have their own beliefs; Scientologists have their own beliefs--and so on. It's all a matter of what you blieve; and if these people believe this shit, then so be it.


But at the end of the day, this Church is nothing more than a satire. So it should be left at that, I suppose. :shrug:
 
This guy is amazing. Does it sound stupid? No stupider than half of the stuff that comes out of 'religion'. Does it have a lack of evidence? There's as much evidence for this possibility as ther is for whichever 'God' or 'higher power' we're discussing. That's why it's so amusing to me. When looking at most religions, without that 'faith' thing people go on about, the lack of evidence for everything noted is just as high as with this particular 'belief'. What? Someone just randomly began talking about this 'Church'? You mean like Jesus randomly began talking about being the son of God?

Intelligent Design theory is the smartest thing those religion people have come up with. Not smart in a good way, but rather they were smart enough to realise science was on the way to disproving everything they believed in, so they thought 'hey, I know, let's just allow science to make breakthroughs, then we'll just say God made that happen!'. Amuses me how people see this any other way.
 
It's been a while since I've posted here, but since religion is one of my favorite subject, I thought it might just be time again to drop in ;)

Well, as said - I'm not a huge fan of religion, especially organized religion. Now I don't have a problem with belief, or faith; everyone is of course entitled to their individual take on the world, and if that look at the world includes in believing in s "greater entity" as creator of the universe, or in believing in Mohammed as the prime prophet or in Jesus Christ as the "Son of God" and saviour of mankind, so be it - for me personally, it's always been less about the figures and names of religions, less about the rituals that are propagated, but more about the underlying teachings.

For as ridiculous as most religions are, with their countless supernatural references and transcendental explanations of pretty much everything, it cannot be denied that the underlying principles - mostly - are good, in an ethical sense. The things that are taught in the New Testament, such as caring for other people, are essential good. The teachings of the Q'ran are essentially good; and so on and so forth. However, wherever there was (or is!) power, and wherever that power is somehow linked to religious beliefs, the underlying principles quickly get corrupted and misused by the "insitution" church; and this is what I despise.

For, if you break it down, religion is really nothing much else than "morals and ethics for dummies", if you will. Originally, religion was used both to educate people into behaving in a socially acceptive way, and also to control them: They were being taught that a being "wiser than them", the being that "created" them wants them to behave in a certain way; and if they do, they will be rewarded. If however they do not do as they are told, they will be punished in the afterlife, by being sent to hell or purgatory. So far, so simple. Not everyone is a born philosopher; not every person likes to ponder the different aspects of morality and ethics for hours on end. I believe that originally, religion was a means of education on the one hand, and of control on the other. For making people act according to what you (i.e. those who form the religion; evangelists, priests, prophets, preachers etc...) make them think is "right" or "a godly will" is that much easier I think if you wish to address more "simple-minded" and easily influenced folk, who - out of fear of the unknown, out of fear of the transcendental - will act as they are told, in the belief it will save their souls. Whatever ends you mean to achieve in truth, that of course is your choice alone.

Now of course it can be argued that it was not only "simple-minded" folk who in the past were heavily influenced by religions and of course by those people in "charge" of the religions; but there is no denying that those who have power over a religion, and can thus mobilize the followers of that religion by altering or interpreting that religion to suit their own visions, can much more easily control their zealous followers and bring them to do whatever the "powers that be" desire, than someone who has to lead and mobilize by pure reason alone.

Now my big problem with religion has always been that - that it is too much of an escapism for me; that people rely too much on religion, rely too much on others to tell them what is "right" and what is "wrong", what to do and what not to, instead of thinking about morals and ethics on their own. Instead, they prefer to be led like sheep (literally, just look at Jesus' "shepherd"-references!), eat up blindly everything that is fed to them simply because it is passed down as "tradition" by their elders, without ever questioning origin or merit of the designs; and this is what I really can't take.

And now to teach that in school, as something that is supposed to be "fact", when there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that ANY of that which religions claims is at all true, is really problematic. I mean, here in Austria we also used to have "religion" in school, but it was not presented as a pseudo-science, but it was taught as what it was: something that was written down a long time ago, something to help people lead their lives and give them something to believe in if they do not have anything to believe in of their own.

Now that is not a bad thing per se either, but the issues I have with religion can be broken down into two main categories I guess:

1. The unwillingness of taking responsibility for one's own actions or defining one's own personality and take on issues like morals, ethics, justice oneself by justifying everything with divine will ("deus le vult!"), the hope/fear of a pleasant/terrible afterlife or because of mere tradition and

2. The abuse of religion for manipulation and control of people, and as a justification for the most heinous of crimes.

And both these points have happened in the past to great extent (just look at the immense control the catholic church had in the Middle Ages, both over the actual rulers (and supposeldy "educated" class) as well as over simple folk, and the way they abused that power to gain more power of their own, killing more than enough innocent people in the process), and are still being employed today in countries where government is still not entirely separated from religion; and that is a huge problem in my opinion. For as said, as soon as some religion - ANY religion, at that - has influence on your justification of actions, you run risk of being tempted in justifying ANYTHING and EVERYTHING with divine will; that is also the reason why I thought former presient Bush's comments that "God wants him to do" certain things highly problematic - In a country that takes great pride in being rational, and that tries to be morally upright, to justify ANY action whatsoever with something as purely and utterly hypothetical and supernatural as a "God" is very dangerous, in my opinion.

But of course it happens in other countries as well, especially in those in the Middle East right now where Islam has a heavy influence on governments and leaders as well. But as said - the problems aren't related to Islam or Christianity alone, but occur wherever some transcendental being is employed as a justification for actions when there is no justification in rationality or law to be found. (That of course "law" itself is but an intellectual construct and therefore also has no "absolute" right of existence or right of observance, is another matter; but on the contrary to "divine" law, "human" law is constructed from scratch essentially as a "contract" by those subjects it seeks to bind - humans - whereas "divine" law can be constructed by one person alone, and later altered and used at will without the consent of anything like another "contractual party" - but well, that is a discussion for another time haha).

Now as for the spaghetti monster - it's just really a good way to hold the mirror into the face of over-zealous believers. Now don't get me wrong - essentially, I do think that faith and belief are good things, since they really can help people lead better lives. But that is really all they are, and all they are supposed to be: little tips and guiding lights for those who do not know for themselves. However, the means which are used to illustrate those tips - be it through the alleged "wonders" Jesus performed, through the punishments "God" visited upon mankind for its trespasses, or the stories told about Mohammed - nothing of that should be taken literally, and none of the rituals created by churches over centuries to control people and give them some sort of routine and sensation at the same time in their lives, should not be seen as untouchable, everlasting doctrines and as absolute truth.

And moreover, who are we to judge and say that "God" - if one such being exists - is NOT a flying spaghetti monster? I personally am an agnostic, and not an atheist; I don't go out there and say: "There is no god, there can be no god" - for: Who am I to know?! I mean, surely the existence of a god-being has not yet been proven... but then again, it has also not been scientifically denied, since it is just not possible for us to know. The universe is vast, and cannot even begin to comprehend what - if anything - might lie beyond. I will not go out there and claim that there is no "God" - nor will I go out there with feverish zeal and say "I am sure there is a God out there!", for to claim either thing, to me, is completely ridiculous, not to say foolish.

However, please understand I mean no insult to religious people; if you are of the opinion that a "God" created the world, that he sent his son to earth to teach us humans and that that son "died for our sins", then so be it. It is your right as a thinking human being to believe whatever you will. And besides... IT MIGHT JUST BE TRUE. I, however, do not know. And I do not claim to know, one way or the other.

I'd like to close with this popular little quote that I read a while ago, and it pretty much sums the whole problem up in a nutshell:

"Religious wars are nothing but grown men and women fighting over who has the better imaginary friend."
 
Is this guy full of shit?

Is this guy full of it? Sure he is. But that doesn't make him any less entitled to his beliefs, or lack thereof, then anyone else. Furthermore, he's an intelligent guy, so he's using what he's saying to prove a point. While I disagree with him on said point, I respect his point, the idea on intelligent design. There is no empirical proof for Intelligent Design, so one could argue that the very thing I believe in is just as ludicrous.

-Do you find this type of protest, disrespectful to religious people?

I can't speak for all religious people, but being one myself, I didn't take the slightest bit of offense to it. I found it to be quite funny, in fact. If you can't find humor in this sort of thing, even as a Christian, then you take yourself way too seriously. It's really easy to take offense and feel disrespected by things and people if you're looking to be. I don't think he is meaning to redicule religion as much as he is a tenant of religion. And if he's targeting people who believe in said tenant, then I can laugh at being part of the joke.

-Is this Organization Justified?

Justified? I think he himself acknowledged that its not in....

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson
I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.

Justified means to be valid, or right. There's no real validity in the idea of "Flying Spaghetti Monsterism", and of course he's acknowledging that. The bigger picture is that there is a basis for what he's ultimately trying to say, and that's the idea of tangible evidence and logical conjecture being what is taught within our classrooms across the country as being the proper way to go. And I agree with him on that. I have no problem with the idea of Intelligent Design(Creationism) being taught within school, but only as a theory. Ultimately, what should be taught should be based upon those things we have proof of within our heads, and not what we believe in our hearts. Anything else is a matter of personal faith, and the place for that to be taught as truth is within the church, not the classroom.
 
Justified means to be valid, or right. There's no real validity in the idea of "Flying Spaghetti Monsterism", and of course he's acknowledging that. The bigger picture is that there is a basis for what he's ultimately trying to say, and that's the idea of tangible evidence and logical conjecture being what is taught within our classrooms across the country as being the proper way to go. And I agree with him on that. I have no problem with the idea of Intelligent Design(Creationism) being taught within school, but only as a theory. Ultimately, what should be taught should be based upon those things we have proof of within our heads, and not what we believe in our hearts. Anything else is a matter of personal faith, and the place for that to be taught as truth is within the church, not the classroom.

This caught my eye, and I am wondering, what type of class do you think intelligent design would fit into? Assuming it was taught as one possible theory.
 
This caught my eye, and I am wondering, what type of class do you think intelligent design would fit into? Assuming it was taught as one possible theory.

I think Intelligent Design could be taught within the bounds of a general science course. Science is obviously the systematic arrangement of a body of facts or truths, and Intelligent design could be taught as one POSSIBLE truth. Its the way it was taught, along with evolution, as part of my general science class my freshman year in high school 14 years ago. I dont see how it should be done any other way.
 
You know, I think this is reminding me of the issue there was sometime ago when someone brought it up to the US Senate or whoever about the classification on the census/race on some papers they were filling out for Voter Registration. The person was angry because they were classifying themselves as Vulcan (yes..that from Star Trek) and they would also require a translator for the Vulcan language. I don't have a problem with people wanting to believe in their own culture/religion/etc as long as it doesn't start to impede on others' beliefs. The only way I would have a problem with it is if the person(s) became violent and were wanting to force their beliefs on me. I wouldn't have a problem with it being something open as an optional course for those who are interested in wanting to know more. I believe that if we are exposed to what we do not understand, that it can lessen our fears, and help to create a more open mind to many of the prejudices that some people have about certain religious aspects in society today.
 
:lmao:

The sad part is that the guy who started this has just as much fact as any other religion. What difference is their that an invisible spaghetti monster exists than any god?People can believe whatever they want, as long as these guys don't try invading my country on behalf of this noodle structured diety.

Than again, didn't Italians create spaghettie noodles? So were they around even before the universe was created???

In all seriousness, I like seeing this kind of religion. Maybe when people see that a religion like this makes no sense, they will realize that maybe some of the other ones should be questioned a little more too. If it gets people questioning things, more power to them.
 
Lord, I know I shouldn't eat thee… Mmm, sacrilicious.

You can't be "full of it" if you don't actually try to peddle it as word of God truth. Come now, it's sarcasm and satire; and just a bit o' good fun really.

I think it's very respectful to question and challenge a concept as to constantly be reminded of it's (proposed) merits, that it can be accomplished through humor is just an extra little bonus.

Justified in what sense? They've certainly the right to do as they please, as someone else has the right to reject it.
 

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