Christian's Deserved World Title

[Tech N9ne]

I am a Christian fan as well and I have always pulled for him to have at least one WWE World Title. I still think he should have had a couple, especially by now.

But, I am starting to lose hope. It doesn't look like it is ever going to happen. I think if it was going to happen, it would have happened last year sometime. With the more time that goes by, the window for Christian gets smaller and it just seems more and more unlikely that he will capture what all of us "Peeps" think he should have already.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I agree with everyone that Christian deserves a title reign. We all know the stories that Vince does not like Christian and doesn't see him as championship material.

What doesn't make sense to me is you would think that Edge would have a lot of say in the matter. As we all know, Adam Copeland and Jason Reso are lifelong, best friends.

I would think that with the respect that Edge has earned and for his all his hard work and loyalty, he'd go to Vince and say, give Christian the belt or that he'd put Christian over.

Maybe Christian doesn't want that but I always wondered why, when Edge is one of the top stars ever, Vince wouldn't give his best friend the belt.

 

[Rayne]

What the hell is all this talk about someone "deserving" a title?

Wrestling 101 here, which it seems a lot of folks in this thread skipped: The man who deserves the title is the man who puts asses in seats. Over the past couple of years, this has been warped slightly, into "the man we believe could put asses into seats", due in no small part to the youth movement. You gotta get 'em over somehow, and Cena/Orton/Edge can only carry so many people on their own. A championship might be a prop, but it isn't something you give to a guy like some "Employee of the Month" award. Someone might "deserve" a bigger paycheck, or a bigger merchandising cut, but no one "deserves" championships. Those are earned by a proven ability to make money for your company.

Another big myth- Christian isn't a WWE champion, just because he was a TNA champion, because Vince says blah blah....... and so forth. The WWE is a multinational multimedia company. The days of them doing things on a whim, because it might be a good idea are gone. These days, everything is market researched and focus tested into sterility. Christian doesn't draw. It's hard for the Peep Marks around here to get, but people that are passionate about Christian are in the minority. The fan base is younger and less informed. The TLC matches he was in are a distant memory; they know little, if anything about Christian's NWA title run, much less that there's such a thing as the NWA (be it the National Wrestling Alliance or *****s With Attitude. Kids these days. )

Look, Christian is 37. There are people that are older then him wrestling and winning championships, yes. But they were made long before their late 30's. The WWE simply isn't creating new champions out of people Christian's age. It's not worth the time investment for them, when they could be using those prime segments to push people like Barrett, Sheamus, Swagger, Punk, or several other people, in the hopes that one of them breaks through and gives the WWE several successful years.

Sorry, Peep Show. If Christian was going to be a world champion (of a real championship), it would have happened by now.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

What the hell is all this talk about someone "deserving" a title?

Wrestling 101 here, which it seems a lot of folks in this thread skipped: The man who deserves the title is the man who puts asses in seats. Over the past couple of years, this has been warped slightly, into "the man we believe could put asses into seats", due in no small part to the youth movement. You gotta get 'em over somehow, and Cena/Orton/Edge can only carry so many people on their own. A championship might be a prop, but it isn't something you give to a guy like some "Employee of the Month" award. Someone might "deserve" a bigger paycheck, or a bigger merchandising cut, but no one "deserves" championships. Those are earned by a proven ability to make money for your company.

Another big myth- Christian isn't a WWE champion, just because he was a TNA champion, because Vince says blah blah....... and so forth. The WWE is a multinational multimedia company. The days of them doing things on a whim, because it might be a good idea are gone. These days, everything is market researched and focus tested into sterility. Christian doesn't draw. It's hard for the Peep Marks around here to get, but people that are passionate about Christian are in the minority. The fan base is younger and less informed. The TLC matches he was in are a distant memory; they know little, if anything about Christian's NWA title run, much less that there's such a thing as the NWA (be it the National Wrestling Alliance or *****s With Attitude. Kids these days. )

Look, Christian is 37. There are people that are older then him wrestling and winning championships, yes. But they were made long before their late 30's. The WWE simply isn't creating new champions out of people Christian's age. It's not worth the time investment for them, when they could be using those prime segments to push people like Barrett, Sheamus, Swagger, Punk, or several other people, in the hopes that one of them breaks through and gives the WWE several successful years.

Sorry, Peep Show. If Christian was going to be a world champion (of a real championship), it would have happened by now.

So you're telling me that right now, a World title feud between Christian and Edge wouldn't put butts in the seats? Ok, Ok, maybe Edge would be the draw but if they had one more feud and Christian won the title, fans would definitely be behind him. He would draw for sure.

He's a good draw in the right feud. Edge could easily put him over.

 

[Rayne]

So you're telling me that right now, a World title feud between Christian and Edge wouldn't put butts in the seats? Ok, Ok, maybe Edge would be the draw but if they had one more feud and Christian won the title, fans would definitely be behind him. He would draw for sure.

He's a good draw in the right feud. Edge could easily put him over.

You said it without meaning to. Edge would draw, and Christian would get put over. A "world title feud", however, does not directly lead to "Christian becomes world champion".

Fans would definitely be behind him? He would draw for sure? What makes you say that? The couple of years he's just spent between Smackdown and Superstars, after being off of the insular WWE radar entirely? That's a pretty huge assumption you're working from, when you state right off that Edge would be the draw for the feud and would have to be the one putting him over... and we're also missing just exactly how Edge would pull that off. It's far more common for the rub to wear off after the feud then it is for the rub to suddenly launch a guy.

Guys that are nearing 40 don't "get put over" just because someone online thinks the fans would be behind them. There are no wrestling promotions in the business of making stars out of men near 40; there IS one that's currently using already made stars in their 50's, but they prefer their champions gift wrapped and sent over.

"He's a good draw in the right feud"- ok, so after that feud, what then? (For the record- I remind you that people said the exact same thing about Jeff v. Matt Hardy, and no one gave a shit when it happened.) Christian is suddenly a main event draw that everyone believes in? Like Sheamus and Swagger? You don't put a belt on someone just because it'd make for one really good match, you put it on him because he is capable of being the centerpiece for an entire story arc.

Hate to break your heart, but the WWE has no good reason to make a world champion out of Christian. They are a business, not a support group to make 37 year old men feel good.

 

[nerd4life]

said it before and ill say it again, IWC likes to say people who have never gotten the belt before should get the belt. i.e christian jomo kofi etc. Just because youve been around for a while doesnt mean you deserve a world title. Like Rayne said or whateevr very few if any people show up to see christian, hes boring. captain charisma? i dont think so.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

They gave the world title to Jack Swagger. You think anyone shows up to see him? Hell, they just gave Dolph Ziggler the belt (even if it was for like 10 minutes).

I'm not saying Christian should get a long title run. He's a 2 time ECW champ, 3 time IC champ and a 9 time tag team champ. It's not like's he's been around all this time and never won anything.

Christian should get one title run where he feuds with Edge then drops the title. What's wrong with that?

He's more deserving than guys like John Morrison or Kofi Kingston, who people act like are some great stars. Christian has been around and he's won championships.

That's good enough for me.

 

[shafe_41]

The hell he don't. He has "it" just as much as his old partner Edge. More than most of the rising stars. He's very over with the fans, the majority of which have been clamoring for a World title reign for him since he came back. The "it factor" is one of the greatest cliches in all of television. Basically a way of making a statement without backing it in any way. I could go that route and say: Your opinion doesn't have the "it" factor so therefore I win. But that's no fun is it.



He's certainly above average, especially in WWE's current product. And when was the last time Cena came to the ring and people anticipated a classic? Never, unless you say 'that match is classic John Cena' because it's exactly the same as his last one.

Intangibles, another great way to make a point without actually making one. Which intangible(s) are we talking about here?



There it is again, "it" factor. Christian is past the point of proving he has "it". I'm not for giving away belts because of seniority, but to wrestlers who are good enough to hold it. And Christian is good enough.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah

That's all I read there. Simple point being this... if Christian had whatever "it" may be, he'd be champion over and over. Maybe "it" is another 10-15 lbs and a bigger build. Maybe "it" is not having a certain match looking great when it should have looked great. Maybe "it" is all about timing and Christian just never got the timing right. Or better put... maybe timing didn't get Christian right. Maybe it's a great storyline and feud that he never had. Maybe it's a better catchphrase. Maybe it's him not kissing enough ass backstage and wants his career to be judged solely on his hard work. Maybe it's a combination of all these things. Hell, maybe it's none of these. That's why it's called "it" because nobody knows what "it" may be. A match, the right time, etc...

Are there people in history that I feel didn't have that "it" factor that became champion? Yes. Tons. There are also people that had "it" that didn't become champion. Short example is this... Look at Ted DiBiase. I'll argue until I die he is the greatest heel in the history of the WWE. He's also the greatest superstar in WWE history to never win the big one. But he had "it." Amazing ring skills, amazing on the mic, so much heat on him from the fans, well liked in the locker room, etc... But what gave Sgt. Slaughter a heel run with the title over Ted? Timing. The Iraqi sympathizer role going into WM7. That was timing. Timing gave him that title. As a superstar though, I don't believe for one second Sarge had "it." Looking at an overall body of work, anybody you talk to will put Ted DiBiase over Sgt. Slaughter 8 days a week. Sarge is great. Ted is better. Way better.

There are many things that can make a champion. Again, I love Christian. Consistently one of most entertaining superstars on the card. But he hasn't caught ANY of those factors in his favor to give him a title run. If Sgt. Slaughter can be a champion because of timing, then anybody can be a champion IMO. I could give you more examples but that's way too much to type. I'll say something without saying much. The Great Khali was a champion. But guess what? Christian is head over heels better. All Khali had was size. That's it. Something else Christian doesn't have. Like I said, I could come up with examples all day. But you can't deny the fact that Christian isn't a champion in the WWE... and there's a reason for that.

 

[Rayne]

They gave the world title to Jack Swagger. You think anyone shows up to see him? Hell, they just gave Dolph Ziggler the belt (even if it was for like 10 minutes).

I'm not saying Christian should get a long title run. He's a 2 time ECW champ, 3 time IC champ and a 9 time tag team champ. It's not like's he's been around all this time and never won anything.

Christian should get one title run where he feuds with Edge then drops the title. What's wrong with that?

He's more deserving than guys like John Morrison or Kofi Kingston, who people act like are some great stars. Christian has been around and he's won championships.

That's good enough for me.

Which was all explained in prior posts. You are still under this mistaken idea that wrestlers "deserve" a championship based on tenure. Did Bob Holly deserve to be a world champion? How about Shelton Benjamin? How about Charlie Haas? How about Jerry Lawler? The idea of someone "deserving" a championship is a bullshit concept you only see put forth by internet smarks; because they understand that the champion is chosen, but are still dumb enough to think it's some kind of reward for service rendered.

Reposting myself about Swagger, et al, since copy+paste to answer something I've already stated is easier then explaining it again.

Wrestling 101 here, which it seems a lot of folks in this thread skipped: The man who deserves the title is the man who puts asses in seats. Over the past couple of years, this has been warped slightly, into "the man we believe could put asses into seats", due in no small part to the youth movement. You gotta get 'em over somehow, and Cena/Orton/Edge can only carry so many people on their own.

Swagger and Ziggler didn't get belts because they "deserved" them- your thinking is still hung up on the idea of a title belt as a reward for service. They got the belts because it was thought a championship reign would raise their stock and make them bankable in the future.

Christian, on the other hand, has a very short future. He's not going to be wrestling in his mid-40's; at least, not on television. Why spend segment time on building a superstar who, in almost all certainty, won't be around for a long spell?

Drop the whole concept of someone "deserving" a belt just because they've been a professional wrestler for a while. Pick up the concept of a guy being given a championship because a group of writers thought he'd make the company the most money of their available options.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

It's all about making money.


Can you make money on a couple PPVs with Christian feuding with Edge for the WHC?


Yes, you absolutely can. Butts would be in the seats and kids would be buying the PPV.

That's the whole point of WWE. Make money. Swagger vs. any bozo for the World title or Edge vs. Christian for the World title? Which one is selling more PPVs and tickets?

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Which was all explained in prior posts. You are still under this mistaken idea that wrestlers "deserve" a championship based on tenure. Did Bob Holly deserve to be a world champion? How about Shelton Benjamin? How about Charlie Haas? How about Jerry Lawler? The idea of someone "deserving" a championship is a bullshit concept you only see put forth by internet smarks; because they understand that the champion is chosen, but are still dumb enough to think it's some kind of reward for service rendered.

Reposting myself about Swagger, et al, since copy+paste to answer something I've already stated is easier then explaining it again.

Swagger and Ziggler didn't get belts because they "deserved" them- your thinking is still hung up on the idea of a title belt as a reward for service. They got the belts because it was thought a championship reign would raise their stock and make them bankable in the future.

Christian, on the other hand, has a very short future. He's not going to be wrestling in his mid-40's; at least, not on television. Why spend segment time on building a superstar who, in almost all certainty, won't be around for a long spell?

Drop the whole concept of someone "deserving" a belt just because they've been a professional wrestler for a while. Pick up the concept of a guy being given a championship because a group of writers thought he'd make the company the most money of their available options.

You think that a PPV with Edge vs. Ziggler for the belt or Edge vs. Christian for the belt would get more buys?

Yes, those other guys have longer term futures sure. But they need a gradual build up for their characters and pushes. Christian has won titles before so they can just stick him in a title match without having to build it up AND they'll still get kids to buy the PPV. When you've been around long enough and have name recognition with not just 10 year olds, you can easily win the belt and make it believable.

 

[Rayne]

It's all about making money.

Can you make money on a couple PPVs with Christian feuding with Edge for the WHC?

Yes, you absolutely can. Butts would be in the seats and kids would be buying the PPV.

That's the whole point of WWE. Make money. Swagger vs. any bozo for the World title or Edge vs. Christian for the World title? Which one is selling more PPVs and tickets?

And then what?

You don't need to tell me that professional wrestling is about making money- I can fairly well guarantee that I understand that better then 99% of the boards. But you're looking at the short-term picture, through the eyes of fandom. "A good feud" doesn't translate directly into money. "Butts would be in the seats and kids would be buying the PPV?" What do we base this on? Where does the money come from?

One feud doesn't create the lasting ratings increase that advertisers pay for; in and of itself, having a few slightly higher rated shows is meaningless to the bottom line. How will one match with a top card guy and a mid-card guy boost PPV buys so appreciably that it's worth putting the youth movement on hold for?

I hear a lot of "of course it would make money", but no one is being clear about how you take a guy who's been wrestling mid-card programs for two years (TNA belts do not count in the WWE universe), suddenly give him a championship, and then, suddenly, lots of money. It's the old South Park joke:

Step 1, give Christian the belt.
Step 2, ????
Step 3, Profit!

You can't have all your focus on the short-term dollar- that's what TNA has been doing for the past year, and their ratings haven't moved at all. (TNA fans- 1.0 to 1.1 is statistically insignificant due to the methodology of the Nielsen ratings.) The WWE is in a phase where they are building up new superstars, and no one has yet commented on how it makes sense to build a 37 year old man from the mid-card into your top star, when you know that he has little loyalty to the company, and likely doesn't have much time in the industry left. (Again- the guys you see wrestling in their 50's were legends long before they were Christian's age.)

If it was going to happen for him, it would have happened by now. He's a popular mid-card guy, and that's it. There have been plenty of them, and just because some people like you doesn't mean you 'deserve' a title reign.

Yes, those other guys have longer term futures sure. But they need a gradual build up for their characters and pushes. Christian has won titles before so they can just stick him in a title match without having to build it up AND they'll still get kids to buy the PPV. When you've been around long enough and have name recognition with not just 10 year olds, you can easily win the belt and make it believable.

No one gets "just stuck" in the WWE title picture. That's UFC you're thinking of.

Ezekiel Jackson has won titles before; can you just stick him in a title match without having to build it up? (BTW- you need to build up EVERY title match. No one gives a shit about two guys fighting in professional wrestling.) What about Heath Slater? He's won titles before; where's his spot in the main event? Let's go a little bit older- how about Golddust? He's won several titles before- how about we just throw the belt on him? He 'deserves' it, doesn't he? R-Truth has held all of the belts that Christian's held, except for the ECW title (does that even count?); can we "just stick him in a title match" and have it all work out?

Christian isn't the superstar you think he is. Sorry.

 

[King of Kings 1985]

As much as I'd like to see it happen...it won't happen.
I read somehwhere that Edge had requested that at this years WrestleMania, that it be him vs Christian for the World Heavywheight Championship, and Vince flat-out said no, as he didn't see anything in it, no interest, no money, nothing. Although I think that has more to do with it being at WrestleMania, any other Event and it may have been a different story.

 

[FSWWE]

Hell YES!!!

Christian entered in the WWE with Edge, they have similaritys, in phisics and in way of talking to people, so if Edge can be a 11th Time World Champ, doesnt Christian deserves at least
ONE TIME WORLD CHAMPION???

Edge vs Christian will happen, that is for granted!!!
I mean it is going to be a LEGEND MATCH!!

It's like Triple H vs Shawn Michaels, they fought a lot of times, and ALL the matches were EPIC...

So Edge and Christian feud is going to be EPIC TOO!!
No assaults, no one is going to be heel!!

It is going to be a friend vs friend hell of a match, maybe the first won by Edge...
Maybe Christian winning another tittle shot, and somehow ended in a draw...
and Christian saying that Edge and him, are going to face once more, thats for sure...

Edge may lose his title to ADR or even Wade Barret, and then recoverying at EC for instance, and going to Wrestlemania facing the RR Winner Christian at TLC!!! and here Christian win his first major tittle!!

C'Mon Edge vs Christian isnt a match for Over the Limit, or Backlash!!
Is a SummerSlam or a Wrestlemania match ALWAYS!!

 

[jimmyswindler4]

You talk about drawing money , but for me and i know for alot of other people seeing edge vs christian than edge vs del rio makes me want to buy it or even all 3 of them in triple threat

but edge vs del rio? NO del rio has been pushed to the top to quick and i am a fan of del rio but its too soon a triple threat would make me more interested in this match

 

[byrnside]

Personally, with the lack of established stars, I think Christian's big break is finally coming.

Spoiler

From the main site:

Thanks to Tim Harmon for sending in the following:

I Just got back from Smackdown here in cleveland at the Q. It was a very good show. I am sending a few off air pictures and a clip of Edge and Christian after smackdown went off air. Yes I said Christian, I know they promoted him for next weeks smackdown. but after smackdown went off air Christian did a run in to help Edge. The headline dark match was to be Del Rio and Corre vs. Big Show, Edge & Rey Mysterio. But Mysterio was a no show and Christian stepped in for him in the match. Edge did get a bloody nose and maybe broke. don't know how much will be shown on smackdown but Del Rio's shirt was bloody from Edge. Anyway Edge and Christian at the very end pull out the history books and did the 5 second pose for the crowd. It was funny. I was definitely Edge's night, he was everywhere.Cole is over as a heel BIG TIME.

With that being said, I think Christian is going to be thrust, if nothing else, into the upper main-event scene. Maybe Christian's big break is finally coming. Any thoughts?

 

[GrandSword]

Christian's time has past. He missed the boat. Guys like Del Rio, Barrett, Swagger, Sheamus etc. have all leap frogged him. It's unfortunate but it's reality. WWE has to set for the new generation as Taker, Edge and HHH retire and guys like Cena and Orton move into their spots as being attractions and not needing the belt. Christian just like Goldust and Regal is a great wrestler and if he sticks around will be able to work with the young guys and get them ready for greatness...

 

[FightOwensFight]

With Christian being inserted into the Edge/Del Rio build-up, does anyone else see the possibility of a Three-Way at WM? Even more exciting, this set's up nicely to have Christian screw Edge at Mania to start the feud everyone has wanted to see?

 

[Nate DaMac]

I would love to see Christian get a title reign. I actually believe that it will happen by the end of the year.

I don't buy this whole theory of Vince burying Christian due to him going to TNA. I believe that he only puts the title on guys that are insanely over to the point that he realizes it's a smart move, as was the case with Rey Rey and Jeff Hardy. Although Christian has always had a huge fanbase on the internet, he's only really been moderately popular with the wrestling fans as a whole until recently.

With that in mind, this is the first time we have had Edge and Christian have both been face on the same brand while also being considered main event talents. The time is more perfect than ever to try to see if he can sink or swim by letting him get a title shot at ADR if he wins at Wrestlemania or hell, you can probably even give Christian the belt at Mania.

There are several different angles they could go with here, use your imagination.