Championship Region, Sixth Round: (2) Bret Hart vs. (9) Brock Lesnar

[Da Prophet]

Goldberg literally never beat Bret Hart. Bret even won the concussion match. Goldberg, in the record books, is Bret's bitch. Also, the Goldberg concussion didn't end his career, it was one he got afterwards.

"Bill Goldberg kicked me in the head and ended my career because he didn't know what he was doing." Bret continued, "You get guys that cost me millions and millions of dollars, cost me my career, probably led to my stroke, and so many things that happened all because somebody didn't know what they were doing." - Bret Hart interview by Forbes 2016.

So, you're wrong. Bret Hart acknowledges that Goldberg's kick ended his career. Ask Bret Hart who won out of him and Goldberg. One just competed in a main event of WrestleMania while the other sits at home unable to do basic tasks, watching himself on the Simpsons, and complains about the state of professional wrestling.

Bret couldn't handle the physical nature of being in the ring with Goldberg. He sure as hell isn't surviving against Brock Lesnar.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

No wrestler has ever been better at chopping down the tree. If anyone can find a way to chip away at Brock and catch him off guard, it would be Bret Hart.

However, Lesnar is one dominant son of a bitch. I am leaning toward Bret, and will vote for him, but I won't be bothered one bit if Brock moves on.

 

[sikkbones]

No wrestler has ever been better at chopping down the tree. If anyone can find a way to chip away at Brock and catch him off guard, it would be Bret Hart.

However, Lesnar is one dominant son of a bitch. I am leaning toward Bret, and will vote for him, but I won't be bothered one bit if Brock moves on.

Bret would have won the wrestlemania 19 match after the botch...

One mistake is all that bret needs.

If he can make that far...

 

[ShinChan]

Using a legitimate concussion against Bret Hart is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. If people are going to use "Bret couldn't handle Goldberg so he can't handle Brock Lesnar" then what about "Bret defeated Goldberg even after suffering a concussion?". The professionally trained MMA fighter is also irrelevant. If you're going to use it, then how about "Brock Lesnar couldn't defeat Roman Reigns even after 3 F-5s?". Another one, "Has Bret lost to Goldberg in 86 seconds?". No? Well, Brock did.

Vote Bret Hart as he's a better professional wrestler.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

"Bill Goldberg kicked me in the head and ended my career because he didn't know what he was doing." Bret continued, "You get guys that cost me millions and millions of dollars, cost me my career, probably led to my stroke, and so many things that happened all because somebody didn't know what they were doing." - Bret Hart interview by Forbes 2016.

So, you're wrong. Bret Hart acknowledges that Goldberg's kick ended his career. Ask Bret Hart who won out of him and Goldberg. One just competed in a main event of WrestleMania while the other sits at home unable to do basic tasks, watching himself on the Simpsons, and complains about the state of professional wrestling.

Bret couldn't handle the physical nature of being in the ring with Goldberg. He sure as hell isn't surviving against Brock Lesnar.

Sorry, but are you seriously advocating voting for Brock Lesnar because Bill Goldberg was a sloppy, dangerous wrestler and severely affected Bret Hart's entire life because of it?

Classy.

BTW, if you want to keep this based on wrestling, and not who was a sloppy, dangerous professional...

Bill Goldberg NEVER beat Bret Hart. Hart had a record of 4-0-2 against Goldberg.

So since Goldberg did beat Lesnar, and Goldberg was Bret Hart's bitch... there's even more reason to show that Hart can beat Lesnar.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

As much as I see Hart as the most overrated talent of all time, Brock has skinny legs and Hart could expose that easily.

 

[ShinChan]

Have we really come all this way for a Bret Vs bruno final?

What's the problem with that final? Even I would like Bruno Vs. Brock Lesnar. But what about the logic that Brock Lesnar has suffered significant damage after defeating The Undertaker in a close match and Bret Hart easily defeated Chris Jericho? If we're going to ignore it, then what's the use of organizing three matches in one day for a particular finalist?

Also, I don't want to see ridiculous "Brock Lesnar will squash Bruno" arguments.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Bret Hart isn't on Lesnars level. Everyone is going on like Hart would wrestle rings around Lesnar. Lesnar isn't no schmuck when r comes to grappling.

 

[ShinChan]

Bret Hart isn't on Lesnars level. Everyone is going on like Hart would wrestle rings around Lesnar. Lesnar isn't no schmuck when r comes to grappling.

I don't agree with Bret Hart wrestling rings around Brock Lesnar. But I have 3 reasons to vote against Brock Lesnar here.

1. Brock's weakness is submission specialists like Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle. He has tapped out to both of these. Bret Hart is also a submission specialist.

2. The damage taken by Brock is way more than damage taken by Bret in the previous round. So, it's more easy for Bret.

3. Bret Hart is a better professional wrestler. And I might be personally biased here. But I care more about a wrestler who entertains me with his matches than someone who bores me with his squashes over some talented wrestlers when he can actually be good but he doesn't just care enough for the fans. And if an entertainer doesn't care about his fans, then I can't respect him as an entertainer.

 

[Tastycles]

Kurt Angle had Lesnar's number better than most, and he is fairly similar in his approach to Bret Hart. Bret Hart also used to beat Goldberg a lot, who was seen as an unstoppable force, just like Lesnar. As unlikely as it seems, that points to a Bret Hart win.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I'm picking Bret for the win. Lesner can't be in any serious shape after dealing with The Undertaker in his last match. Bret Hart can turn this into a match of endurance and reverse the F5 into a surprise school boy pin for the win.

He's the best there was, the best there was and the best there ever was...

 

[Bernkastel]

I voted for Bret based on 2 things...

He's in much better shape coming into this round than Lesnar. Lesnar had a war with the Undertaker, while Bret had a routine victory over Chris Jericho. If the rules of the championship round are to mean anything this gives him an advantage.

And even though 2017 Brock Lesnar is booked a whole lot stronger than 2003 Brock Lesnar, he hasn't shown that he still has the stamina of his younger self. Most of Brock's current matches are short. Usually under 10 minutes. I think he's had a few matches that are close to the 20 minute mark, but he clearly looks gassed afterwards. Brock in his younger days could go 60 minutes no problem, but I'm not so sure now. There's no evidence that he can in the same capacity. What we do know is that Brock is now a 39 year old man with a history of serious health issues. His diverticulitis has been exploited in the WWE since returning, and I'm sure a wrestler like Bret could take advantage of that weakness.

If you were to use the younger Lesnar then the stamina argument becomes non existent. Thing is though that Lesnar wasn't booked to be nearly the unstoppable machine that he is now, and gave up falls to smaller technical wrestlers like Angle, Benoit, and Guerrero. That was a beast that Bret could slay. Otherwise Bret has the advantage in stamina, and I don't see Brock being able to survive 2 back to back wars against strong opponents like Undertaker and Bret Hart.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

By the way, do you know how shit you have to be to at speaking to be worse on the stick than pre-heel Bret?

 

[nightmare]

Why everyone thinks this will be a long match or end with a damn roll up is just crazy to me. Lesnar for the past few years has been booked damn near unstoppable. More so than his original run. He isnt going to be taken to wrestling school here & since he doesnt get paid by the hour, he gets the job done quickly.


Brock isnt dumb. He isnt going to just let Hart do what he wants and slowly pick him apart till there is no gas left in the tank. Tired giant plus schoolboy win is such a lame ass argument.

 

[enviousdominous]

I'm one of the biggest Bret Hart fans out there, I hate hate HATED Steve Austin during their feud. But I'm going with Brock.

Bret Hart is a technician and a strategist, he plays to his opponents weaknesses and works his matches like a chess-master. The thing is, so does Brock.

Prowrestling is about getting what we expect because clichés are fun. The big guy is stupid/slow but strong/intimidating, the smaller guy is small/weak but smart/fast. Occasionally you get someone like Brock who breaks the mold and behaves unlike most performers his size, he's not a big guy who rests on the strategy of "I'm bigger, therefore I will win!"

Brock knows that he can lose to Bret Hart, and he's not going to take him lightly. Brock took a squash loss from Goldberg, Goldberg being the guy who could never beat Bret. Because of that; Brock knows that Bret will be picking apart his own common strategy, and will thus have to have an ace up his sleeve like when he leaped over Goldberg's failed spear attempt.

This will be a match featuring two established technicians, one star graduate of the infamous Hart Dungeon and one dominant NCAA champion. When I compare my impression of their skills, Brock has Bret beat on strength and tenacity while they're both even on technique and adaptability.

Vote Brock

 

[Dragon Chief]

The logical choice here is Lesnar and I'm not going to bother going into detail on why he would win this because there is obviously a bias on these forums for old school wrestlers.

Lesnar is a beast simply put, he is stronger than Hart, faster than Hart, more dominate than Hart and can be more technical than Hart. Lesnar draws more than Hart as well, the only thing Hart has on Lesnar is a longer career in the business which isn't really a good point when determining who would win since Lesnar is better than Hart in just about every other category.

Funny how people bring up Angle and Benoit as a reason why Bret Hart would win, when Brock Lesnar has beaten those guys more than he has been beaten by them, not a valid point.

The concussion Bret Hart suffered at the hands of Goldberg is a valid claim, it shows a wrestlers durability. Hart can't take hard hits, Lesnar on the other hand gave himself a concussion at WM 19, finished the match and had great run as WWE champion.

Brock Lesnar wins this by TKO (similar to the Randy Orton finish) and possibly end Bret's career but go ahead continue to overrate old school wrestlers and screw Lesnar out of another tournament.

Vote: Lesnar

 

[SSJPhenom]

I don't get the argument that this is going to be a long drawn out match in which Hart will win because Lesnar will be gassed and worn out. Is there a stipulation that I'm missing somewhere? I also don't get the argument of Hart going over based on past matches with big guys. If I'm not mistaken, just about every time Hart faced a big guy the only reason he won was because of some sort of shenanigans. When he faced 'Taker you have Diesel interfering or HBK hitting 'Taker upside the head with a chair, when he faced Diesel you have 'Taker interfering or something else happening, when he faced Yoko there were shenanigans afoot. So what leads people to believe that Hart is just going to chop Lesnar down to size in this long drawn out marathon of a match is beyond me.

Everything that Lesnar has done since his return suggests that this match would go about 10 min at most with Lesnar throwing Hart around and around. Hart will get some offense in but every time Hart starts to get a foot hold in the match Lesnar is going to throw him again. Hart isn't going to have Lesnar down, pull him over to the ropes, put his leg on the second rope, and jump on it like he does. He isn't going to get Lesnar into the ring post Figure Four. This is Lesnar's match to win and win it he will.

Vote Lesnar.

 

[OYDK]

Everything that Lesnar has done since his return suggests that this match would go about 10 min at most with Lesnar throwing Hart around and around.

Lesnar has wrestled exactly three matches that have gone under 10 minutes since his return. One of those resulted in him being squashed and another one was cut short by Taker's interference. That was a fresh Lesnar. In this scenario, Lesnar has already been in a dogfight with The Undertaker earlier in the night (which of course is being completely ignored by Bork supporters) and now needs to go against a relatively fresh Bret Hart.

People need to stop acting like Bret Hart is Dean Ambrose or Seth Rollins. The guy was the face of the company at one point and is on a tier with the likes of Cena, Taker, and Goldberg; all of whom have taken Lesnar to the limit at his most dominant. People also need to stop acting like Brock Lesnar can beat Andre the Giant and Bruno Sammartino blindfolded with one arm tied behind his back. The guy is not that dominant against top level wrestlers. He lost to Cena, he lost to Taker, he lost to Goldberg, he lost to HHH, and he was saved a loss at Mania 31 to Roman Reigns by Seth Rollins. I have no trouble believing that a tired and beat-up Brock can lose to Bret Hart.

 

[nightmare]

Its really more of people using Lesnar's 2 or 3 submission losses against him and saying Hart would wear him down.

Brock may have lost by submission, but so has Hart. More times in fact. Logic says if the super technician has tapped more often, then he has a better chance of losing by submission. Sure, Bret could make Brock tap but Lesnar is more than capable of making the Hitman quit.

Lesnar from back in the day has shown to have more than enough to go the distance. Lesnar now pulls the trigger before he gets too winded. So either Brock ends it early, or he goes toe to toe with Bret for the distance.

While Lesnar may have lost to a few smaller technicians, he has also dispatched them quite viciously as well. Bret Has lost tons to bigger guys, only to win the end game & often with shenanigans. I already have shown his history in losing the first few meetings against bigger opponents. Facts are facts & that is a big negative for Bret.

All in all, Lesnar is more dominant with the tools to withstand Bret's style and counter with a ferocity Hart has never seen. Just ask Cena and Taker. Two talents higher on the mountain than Bret that were thrashed by Brock.

 

[tdmoon]

The logical choice here is Lesnar and I'm not going to bother going into detail on why he would win this because there is obviously a bias on these forums for old school wrestlers.

I guess that depends on your definition of "old school". Here is the tournaments sweet sixteen:

Round 4 Results

Hogan Region

(5) Chris Jericho b. (8) Goldberg 36-22
(2) Bret Hart b. (3) Randy Savage 34-18

Cena Region

(9) Brock Lesnar b. (4) Sting 31-18
(2) Undertaker b. (3) Lou Thesz 30-22

Austin Region

(4) Bruno Sammartino b. (1) Steve Austin 41-13
(3) Triple H b. (7) Ultimate Warrior 38-13

Rock Region

(4) Kurt Angle b. (1) The Rock 32-18
(3) Andre the Giant b. (2) Ric Flair 31-21

Take out just three of the sixteen(Thesz, Andre, Bruno) and this was an Attitude Era PPV.

Bret Hart has a richer legacy, is more accomplished, and is simply a better wrestler than Lesnar. He should advance easily here. Vote Bret.

 

[nightmare]

Richer legacy how? Family name, other than that I dont see it. Ill give him the fact he carried the company while in a spot. Doesnt diminish the legacy Brock has carved as a dominant main event player.

More accomplished? Brock wins the amatuer legacy over Bret. When he went pro, he has been in main event battles damn near the entire time, while Bret spent tons of time lower down the card before moving up. Besides the laughable WCW time, he really hasnt earned more than Lesnar besides an extra KOTR win. Although an IWGP title evens that out.


Better wrestler? Nah. Bret may have been trained in the dungeon, but Lesnar has done more without visiting the basement. Mic skill, Bret is horrible... at least Brock has Heyman. Oh & rest assured Paul would help give Hart a fit in this as well.

This wont be a marathon & Bret wont be winning by Sharpshooter or roll up. History shows he is trash in first meetings against monsters. This should be no different unless you want to ignore had evidence.