Championship Region, Sixth Round: (1) Steve Austin vs. (1) John Cena

[enviousdominous]

I've seen quite a few arguments stating that "Cena is no Steve Austin." That argument might be ever more stupid than the first one I mentioned. In the same breath, I can make a billion arguments about how Austin is no John Cena, either.

Truly, these two are damn near identical kayfabe-wise.

Both men built their fanbases on how brash and arrogant they were, and both men had big money matches that required them to tone down the arrogance slightly and adopt a new persona based on being the best. They started with talking shit, and they reached their apexes by doing shit.

In my earlier post I neglected to mention John Cena's match with JBL at WrestleMania, which I'm sure was more of a milestone for his fans than his match at Survivor Series. In the interest of fairness, and for general enjoyment, here's that match:

[YOUTUBE]4nXuJ2Lwqv8[/YOUTUBE]

When it comes to two of pro-wrestling's most over performers in history, I have to split hairs and use arguments that might only have significance for myself.

I don't think that Stone Cold was supposed to be as over with the fans as he became, I think that he was written into the show as a mid-carder who would suffer on behalf of his affiliation with the NWA. You already know that Stone Cold's 3:16 speech was never supposed to happen, we were supposed to be watching a Triple H coronation as the new King of the Ring.

I think that the second the WWE brass saw John Cena, they (appropriately) saw dollar signs and were already brainstorming how he could be the poster child for their company.

I give Stone Cold the edge because he didn't need over a decade to give us some of the most memorable moments in prowrestling history, but I'm willing to admit that a vote for John Cena is a wise and informed vote.

Just giving you my take on all this.

 

[D-Man]

I don't think that Stone Cold was supposed to be as over with the fans as he became, I think that he was written into the show as a mid-carder who would suffer on behalf of his affiliation with the NWA. You already know that Stone Cold's 3:16 speech was never supposed to happen, we were supposed to be watching a Triple H coronation as the new King of the Ring.

But the fact that Austin seized that opportunity is what gives him an edge. They say that the pro-wrestling business is all about time and circumstance. When you're given the opportunity to sink or swim, you don't tread water; you do the backstroke in style.

I think that the second the WWE brass saw John Cena, they (appropriately) saw dollar signs and were already brainstorming how he could be the poster child for their company.

In all fairness, I think they do that with every talent they sign, otherwise why would they waste money on him? I don't think Cena was any different.

I give Stone Cold the edge because he didn't need over a decade to give us some of the most memorable moments in prowrestling history.

This is the only thing you said that I wholeheartedly disagree with. Technically, Austin needed about 7-8 years before he made a true splash in the industry. He had to work his way through WCW, ECW, and his first few years in WWE before he was handed HHH's spot. And just think about how much longer it would have taken if he wasn't given that TV time to shine and deliver that 3:16 promo.

Cena, on the other hand, was signed to OVW in 2000, moved up to the main roster in 2002, and then adopted the "Word-Life" gimmick which skyrocketed him to main event status by 2004 (only two years on the main roster and five years in pro-wrestling as a whole) where he was delivering unforgettable moments on a weekly basis and became WWE's top star. So, to contradict your points, it took Cena less time to do what SCSA did.

I'm still undecided but while I appreciate the debate, I've got to point out the correct facts.

 

[harrythem]

Also I'd like to add that in 1998 Austin didn't have any competition other than The Undertaker. When the real competition kicked in and young talents like HHH and Rock steped up, Austin lost his shit and couldn't even hold his title.

Cena however, bravely fought names like JBL, Angle, Jericho, HBK, HHH.. young names like Edge, Lashley and Orton and monsters like Umaga and The Great Khali.

I'm sorry but I'd say Kane in 1998 was a more effective main event talent than Khali Umaga and, to a point, even JBL were. He was a character that was created for a 6 month run and somehow became huge.

Mick Foley? Again I'd say Foley in 1998 was a bigger star than Lashley Orton or even Jericho ever could be.

Cena's done well but to poo-poo on the talent Austin had to work with as, somehow, being below some of the names you mentioned doesn't strike as all things being considered equal.

If you want to go from a Kayfabe point of view than simple look at Austins record where it really mattered, in mega-drawing ppv main events against star talent in their "prime period" Austin beat HBK, Rock & Rock between 1998-2001. Cena's big period, if we're looking for comparable names is Triple H, HBK and Rock. However, although he beat Rock in the rematch the fact is, against prime Austin's number 2 guy (the Macho to his Hogan) Cena lost in Rocks first singles match in around 8 years.

Simply put a prime Cena against a prime Austin would be a fantastic feud if they let it keep a bit of an edge, but I'd trust Austin to get the job done rather than Cena because, when the chips are down, Cena's never shown me even half the intensity inside the ring (from his punches to his comebacks) to show he could handle a fired up Austin stomping a mudhole.

But, even after all that, I can still see why people would vote for Cena, as he's done amazing stuff, I just think it's slightly easier to be Superman when, instead of being surrounded by Batman and The Flash, you've got Aquaman and Hawkman

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I really don't like the Cena is more dominant than Austin argument. Austin beat The Rock, Foley, Kane (when he was almost unbeatable), Undertaker, HBK, HHH, Kurt Angle, Benoit, Bret Hart, The Big Show (when he was dominant) and many names I can't remember.

Cena lost to The Rock in Rock's first singles match in nearly a decade and was absolutely destroyed by Brock Lesnar in a title match a couple years ago. Austin lost here and there as well, but was never destroyed like that.

Outside of "we love new wrestling" and "we want Cena to win this (even though he shouldn't)," what is a solid reason to vote Cena? I'm not seeing it. This vote should not be this close.

 

[nightmare]

I really don't like the Cena is more dominant than Austin argument. Austin beat The Rock, Foley, Kane (when he was almost unbeatable), Undertaker, HBK, HHH, Kurt Angle, Benoit, Bret Hart, The Big Show (when he was dominant) and many names I can't remember.

Cena lost to The Rock in Rock's first singles match in nearly a decade and was absolutely destroyed by Brock Lesnar in a title match a couple years ago. Austin lost here and there as well, but was never destroyed like that.

Outside of "we love new wrestling" and "we want Cena to win this (even though he shouldn't)," what is a solid reason to vote Cena? I'm not seeing it. This vote should not be this close.

Longevity and # of belts won is the only logical argument. The 2 you mentioned seem to be the popular ones though. Problem is that longevity isnt really Steve's fault given his injury shortened career. If not for the knees and neck, Austin would be a double digit champ for sure. Some folks may be confusing the words longevity and dominance. Over a decade Cena may have won some big matches & helped the rebuilding process, but Austin was a runaway train that fueled a revolution of sorts that shifted the power landscape of wrestling. Shorter? Sure, but more impact. Austin is the better man here, admitted by some who even voted Cena.


Anyone basing their argument on dominance or longevity should be expected to vote just that way for Andre next round. Especially anyone pushing for new blood to win this whole thing. Those two factors, plus the tournament damage going into the finals making Andre much fresher, means Andre will ultimately win. Unless of course people vote because of "LOLCENAWINS".

 

[Slyfox696]

I see the vote is close, I don't know how close the post vote is, but I'm casting my vote for John Cena.

Steve Austin was great, one of the greatest ever. But so is Cena and Cena has done it for over a decade, whereas Austin only had a few years on top. Both men changed the business, but Cena has done it longer and has a very long list of great matches to his name.

John Cena wins.

 

[ShinChan]

John Cena for me easily.

John Cena has been the face of WWE since more than a decade which is damn difficult and hard.

Cena outsmarts Austin in every matter be it longevity, in-ring skill, etc. Austin was a great pro wrestler but Cena is just better than him.

Having good/great matches at this age and great concepts like US Open Challenge, Cena is damn too great for Austin to go over.

Cena all the way to face Andre The Giant in the finals.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Since the vote is close, I will add my written vote for Cena. I like Austin, I have more history with him as a fan, even going back to his "Stunning" Steve days in WCW. But Cena has been the top dog for a LOT longer and is bigger and more athletic. He's also a lot fresher coming off his dominant win.

Vote Cena.

 

[justtxyank]

I'll get my written vote out there for Austin.

I was not an Austin guy in the 90s, but there is no questioning how big he was. Austin is arguably the most popular wrestler of all time and is the only one who peaked as high as Hogan, or higher.

Cena has the longer track record of being on top, but it isn't exactly like those have been the glory years for the WWF/E.

 

[D-Man]

I'm going to give a written vote for Cena here. My reasons were stated in a previous post but for the sake of not posting spam, I'll say it's because it was more of a struggle for him to achieve his top status than Austin, he held that top status for a longer period of time, he obtained many more championships and sold more merchandise than Austin.