Championship Region, Sixth Round: (1) Ric Flair vs. (3) Andre the Giant

Discussion in 'Championship Region' started by klunderbunker, May 3, 2016.

?

Who Wins This Match?

  1. Ric Flair

  2. Andre the Giant

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a sixth round match in the Championship Region and it is a standard one on one match. It will be held at AT&T Stadium in Dallas, Texas. This match will take place on the same night as the fifth round match so the wrestlers will not be coming in fresh. The amount of damage will be gauged by the margin of the previous match and the length based on the total number of votes (read as a match with few votes would be short and a lot of votes would be longer).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #1. Ric Flair

    Round 5: 40-35


    VS.

    [​IMG]

    #3. Andre the Giant

    Round 5: 54-19



    Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    So it looks like this is Andre's year.

    Hanging over any discussion here is the margin of victory. Ric Flair had way more trouble with Goldberg than anyone sane would expect, and comes into this match beat to hell. Andre's reaching casually for his twelfth bear and third roasted chicken of the night, which in Andrespeak means he's still working on hors d'oeuvres. Even before we take damage into consideration, Ric Flair has significant difficulty in using his preferred way to end a match here; while I'm sure there's someone out there who can pull out video of Ric Flair having Andre the Giant in a figure-four once, it's still a bad look and a touch more challenging than applying one to an equal sized competitor.

    People can probably concoct some way that Ric Flair could win this match. Run it ten times, and Andre takes nine of them.
     
    #2
  3. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Flair made it past Goldberg with a pretty close result, and Andre beat Sting by beating every last ounce of spirit out of him.

    Sting was a thorn in Flair's side, whom Flair could never quite get the better of in their many feuds. Now Flair is going up against a guy who trounced Sting, that represents a serious problem. While Flair made a career of finding clever ways to beat his opponents, he's never been very good against giants.

    Andre was nobody's fool, he knew how to beat crafty opponents and he could easily rival Ric Flair's worldwide appeal. Andre has Ric begging for mercy during 75% of this match and doesn't let his guard down this close to the top.

    Vote Andre.
     
    #3
  4. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Andre squashed Sting and Flair had a hard time getting through Goldberg. The obvious choice is Andre but I might hold my vote because I don't want this to be a squash match, so I might hold my vote for Flair.
     
    #4
  5. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    So far the three that have responded have brought up the margin of victory in the previous round. Don't let that fool you. Andre easily beat Sting so because Flair struggled with Goldberg Andre could easily beat Flair? That may be logical but it's also boring. Pro wrestling will trade logic for drama any day. Flair would be enough of an underdog as it is. The damage from the previous round just makes it all that much better when he wins here. He's overcome the odds in big situations before, such as drawing #3 and winning the WWF world title in what most people consider to be the greatest Royal Rumble ever. Can't you just picture the dirtiest player in the game coming up with something underhanded to upset the lovable giant? If this tournament was something booked in real life a prime Ric Flair surely would have won at least one by now.
     
    #5
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  6. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Yes, that is right ladies and gentlemen. Andre eats bears for his appetizer. That is really all we need to know in order to make this vote count. The man eats grizzlies for a snack.



    Humorous mistakes in spelling aside, this is real easy. Andre is more than Flair can handle in his weak state. We have seen him pull off victories on the verge of bleeding to death, but I cannot see how he takes down a relatively fresh Andre. His buddies cannot really help here & Andre is not going to take too kindly to any cheap bullshit.

    Goodnight Flair. It's been nice, but your limo is waiting.
     
    #6
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  7. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    I wonder though, what if Andre was put against Undertaker and not Sting, and Goldberg and not Flair?

    Both Sting and Flair, defeated their (almost) gigantic opponents in Undertaker and Goldberg.

    I almost regret it that we didn't get to argue between Undertaker and Andre, but we got a boring Andre vs Sting match.

    Andre beating The Rock was a big upset. Freaking Rock. Were was Andre these past tournaments though? Did he used to find Hogan in his way all the time?

    Cena-Austin will be a close one. If Andre wins this in a squash manner, like Sting, then Andre will walk all over Cena/Austin. Like The Brain said, that's boring and predictable. I'm willing to give Flair my vote here, only because I want a fun final.
     
    #7
  8. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    :wtf:

    None of us would be bringing up the margin of victory if it wasn't a legitimate aspect of the later rounds of this tournament. We're not trying to fool you Brain, if you have a better point then maybe say something like "While it's true that Andre's margin of victory was greater, let's also look at how...".

    Oh good grief, leave it to Brain to dictate how not to be boring in a very boring way. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't yawn through a savage Andre the Giant sized beat down. While we can vote based on whatever careless whim suits us, the entire point of this discussion is to trade logical arguments based on who would most likely win. Underdogs have their day every now and then and it's awesome when they do, that doesn't discount the abilities of their (overdog?) opponent.

    While I'm in awe of your audacity, I'm going to need a little more explanation than just "when he wins here" in regard to a gassed Flair magically beating a fresh Andre. Your best example of Flair's potential in a match against Andre is a Royal Rumble where the focus of the finish was on Hogan and Syd. If you look back on when Flair was going up against The Giant in WCW, the best he could eek out was a no contest.

    No, I honestly can't imagine that happening Brain. I have an over-active imagination and I can't imagine Ric Flair beating Andre the Giant under these circumstances. Use your brain and imagine for yourself what Ric could possibly use against Andre to take him off his feet, if it's your argument then you need to back it up. Andre was lovable, but he wasn't naïve.

    I totally agree that a prime Ric Flair deserves to win one of these tournaments, but I'd like to add that he doesn't deserve that accolade nearly as much as Andre the Giant deserves that accolade. Andre was everything that Ric Flair was, and so much more. Nobody is more deserving of the status of "Icon" than Andre the Giant.
     
    #8
  9. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Andre knocked out Brock Lesnar, he'd be just fine.

    Good for them. Sting didn't beat Andre, and I highly doubt that the statistics of the previous matches made that much of a difference. You didn't see too many people arguing on Sting's behalf.

    So basically, Sting is boring.

    You do realize that the past tournaments are archived, right?

    :twak:

    There was a Scottish writer named Osborne Mavor who said, "Boredom is a sign of satisfied ignorance, blunted apprehension, crass sympathies, dull understanding, feeble powers of attention, and irreclaimable weakness of character."

    I can't tell you what should excite you, but maybe you should wait until after the voting starts to determine who you should vote for if you're going to just vote for whomever isn't winning.

    If Andre doesn't deserve to win here, maybe dream up an explanation that relates to the actual potential of both men.
     
    #9
  10. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    So you want to throw a vote to the clear loser here, just to make it more even for Andre's next opponent? Basically you are saying Andre is too good & should be handicapped so Austin\Cena have a better chance, hoping you can use the damage loophole against him instead of actually having to argue a real point.

    What is so boring about crowning a new & deserving champion? Even if the damage thing is close for both 6th round fights, there are still many variable criteria you could use to argue the final match. Sounds like you are just being lazy & are worried you could not come up with an argument against Andre.
     
    #10
  11. Cena Is A Punk Rocker

    Cena Is A Punk Rocker Accidental spam artist

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    I voted for Cena in the other one because I'm voting for Andre in this one. Something about that matchup is exciting for me. Any of the final four are deserving.
     
    #11
  12. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Actually I think that's the deal. Andre has walked all over everyone in this tournament. There's no legit way Flair could beat this guy.
     
    #12
  13. Gallops77

    Gallops77 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Flair is the dirtiest player in the game. He will find a way to beat Andre. He'll pay someone to take Andre out or pay the ref to give him a fast count.

    Vote Flair.
     
    #13
  14. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I'm still shocked Flair is alive in this thing (this year). Now, he's barely made it past Goldberg, in a vote that would make me think he won by Arn interfering with a slapjack to Goldberg's skull, allowing a quick pin, while Andre won a match in almost dominant fashion. Flair can try to take out Andre's knee, and Andre falls on him for the win.

    Vote Andre.
     
    #14
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  15. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Flair might be the dirtiest player in the game but I'd absolutely LOVE to see 1 strong way he somehow ends up beating the 8th wonder of the world. Seriously, what the fuck is Flair going to do to Andre here? Even at Flairs absolute height and during Andre's decline he still wasn't the big star Andre was.

    If Flair doesn't get pinned then chances are he gets disqualified due to major interference and underhanded tactics, none of which would be good enough to put Andre down. He could break Andre's ankle like he did Dusty's, slap on the figure 4 and he would still lose this match, especially considering him winning with the Figure 4 wasn't that common. I'm all for drama and having fun here but for myself (and I said it in the previous thread) the best drama this tournament could have is Cena defeating the unstoppable Andre The Giant in the finals after Cena just barely got by Austin, now THAT'S drama I want to see, not Flair winning with brass knuckles or interference by the Horsemen like he has done a thousand times before, that's sounds a lot more boring than Cena/Andre to me.

    If we're going logical than obviously I'm picking Andre, if we're going for drama then I'm STILL picking Andre due to who he could face in the finals.
     
    #15
  16. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    While it's true Andre's margin of victory was greater, let's also look at how Ric Flair may be the best conditioned wrestler there ever was. How he wrestled sixty minutes every night for years. How he would often wrestle in one town for sixty minutes in the afternoon then travel to another town and wrestle sixty minutes again that night. I'm not worried about the Nature Boy having to work one tough match right after another in the same night.

    I've seen people before just look at the margin of victory from the prior round and put too much stock into it. I don't think it's a big factor here.


    I think I would yawn through a savage Andre the Giant sized beat down. That doesn't sound like a very exciting semi final in a tournament that has been going on for months. And Flair is only an underdog in size, not ability.

    The 92 Rumble was all about Flair. He was the story of the night. He came from enemy territory down south and outlasted the entire WWF roster in one match. It wasn't necessarily the best example of how Flair would beat Andre but it was an example of how Flair has the skill and endurance to overcome the odds and come out on top against the best in the business. If you want a more clear example of a one on one situation you can look to how Flair dethroned the unstoppable Vader at Starrcade 93.

    So you can't think of a way Flair can take Andre off his feet? He can give Andre a chop block and then continue to work the knee. I'd say that's pretty realistic. Or he could dodge an offensive move from Andre that puts the Giant on the mat. It's happened before. Andre didn't go down much after 1986 because he was in such bad shape he couldn't bump anymore and struggled to get back up. Before that people took Andre down plenty.

    Andre wasn't quite everything Flair was. Andre wasn't a champion. Well he was for about 30 seconds but I don't think that matches up with the near 4,000 days Flair wore the gold. Flair is just the more realistic winner from a booking standpoint. Who is more likely to wrestle three times in one night, Andre or Flair? Andre is the special attraction. The fans got to see him win once and then wrestle again. He's done. Flair moves on and makes for a better opponent for Austin or Cena in the final.
     
    #16
  17. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I find it bizarre how much people bring up previous condition, it's honestly like they've never seen wrestling. Anyway, I don't think it matters here anyway, Andre would still win. Andre had a much bigger reach, both literally and metaphorically than Flair ever did and is, along with Hogan and The Rock the wrestler that people are most likely to have heard of.
     
    #17
  18. Hollywood Naitch

    Hollywood Naitch The current reigning and defending

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    I think Andre is going into this match with a huge advantage. He's had a pretty smooth run through the tournament so far, especially his previous match so he's certainly going to be the fresher of the 2 men in this match. Ric Flair is the 60 minute man, and will have recovered from his match earlier in the night more so than most other wrestlers would have, but he's still carrying more damage than Andre into this collision.

    Andre's huge size would eliminate any strength based offence Flair would have, so he'd have to focus on chopping Andre's legs to get him down. But even then, would he be able to get the Figure 4 on such enormous legs, and would Andre simply be able to power out of it?

    I think this would be closer than most think, as an in-prime Ric Flair would pull out every dirty trick in the book to steal a win here, but I reckon he'd come up short against a fresher, in-prime Andre.

    After withstanding several Figure 4 attempts, The Giant eventually splashes The Nature Boy for the 3 count, and limps into the next round, carrying serious leg damage.

    Vote Andre.
     
    #18
  19. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Very good Brain, I see you've done your homework. Ric Flair is famous for being a sixty minute man, because his matches would typically end on a time-limit draw. A time-limit draw is the most boring finish a match could possibly have.

    I'm not worried about Ric's ability to work a match the night after a grueling match either, but we're talking about Andre the Giant here. Andre has endured 60 minute matches in his prime, but he had a reputation for finishing his matches in ways that made him look dominant. Having a hardy work ethic is just one thing, it'll take a hell of a lot more than that to beat Andre.

    You'll probably need to change your name to "The Balls" pretty soon, because statements like that take balls of steel to just blurt out. I'm not trying to sell Andre just on how he had a wider margin of victory in his match against Sting as compared to Flair's margin of victory in his match against Goldberg, and making a point in reference to that occurrence isn't an attempt to fool you.

    I think you would yawn through nuclear war, but that's probably just the narcolepsy. Flair is an underdog in size, and compared to Andre the Giant he's an underdog in ability. Being able to flounder through a 60 minute match with Bob Backlund or King Kong Brody until the match is called for time is a feat worthy of some praise. Andre went on perpetual win streaks against opponents like Killer Kowalski, Bob Backlund and Harley Race. Andre has dominated all of Flair's toughest opponents, thus Flair is probably at a disadvantage here in terms of ability.

    Truth be told; Flair had one of the best debuts in the WWF and he used his cunning and cleverness to capture the world title in one of the greatest Royal Rumbles of all time. His win over Vader was spectacular as well, and there's the fact that Ric has a higher win percentage against Vader.

    Comparing Vader to Andre is pretty damn lopsided in Andre's favor. In Vader's prime, he would take pins that would make him look like he has the athletic ability of a turtle and then snap back up like "What just happened!?" Prime Andre would take a pin an average of once every five years, and then those pins would come after his opponent used everything short of the kitchen sink to take Andre down. When comparing Vader and Andre, Vader does not look unstoppable.

    Ok, rewind a second Brain. Your original statement was:

    I wasn't arguing that I couldn't imagine Andre being taken off his feet, at this point I think Ric could at least manage that. Taking Andre down is one thing, beating him is something completely different. I'm still going to need your help to inspire my imagination to believe that Ric can win this one.

    Damn Brain, I think you lost an argument to yourself in the first three sentences. There's very few world champions that Andre hasn't beaten decisively.

    You make valid points when it comes to the fact that pro-wrestlers are ultimately at the mercy of the bookers, but you seemed to stop that train of thought when considering just who was more likely to be booked for an actual win. The special attraction, or the guy the fans have seen a hundred times already that year.

    Andre moves on here because he's a bigger threat to Austin or Cena, the better man deserves to win.
     
    #19
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  20. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Isn't Andre the one who won the World Championship and then sold it to the Million Dollar Man? He might be the 8th Wonder of the World, but he's clearly a an IQ level of a potato. Selling the World title? That's a travesty.
     
    #20
  21. stingray11214

    stingray11214 Cena is no Bruno & Cole is no Solie

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    Jim Crockett, Sr., Vince Sr., Don Owen and Sam Muchnick must be rolling in their graves right now. Why? No promoter that liked money would have booked two cash cows like Flair and Andre in their primes to face each other. Let's be real: Flair would have lost. Either he got squashed or got DQ'ed when he fire two fists into Andre's nuts. It would have been a near momentum killer for Flair, as Andre in his prime was unbeatable.

    Andre wins in a walk.
     
    #21
  22. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Flair walks out from the locker room, takes a deep breath, and as a result he begins to bleed profusely. After bleeding to death, Andre finishes his third bottle of vodka, shrugs his shoulders, and has his hand raised in victory.

    Ok, now that we all smirked a bit from that, let's get onto what would really happen in this match.

    Although Flair is tactical, bends the rules to his advantage, and has beaten super heavyweights before, Andre is not someone to be taken lightly. In his prime, he was a SUPER-super heavyweight. The man's strength is unmatched and wrestling experience speaks for itself. And although Flair has just as much experience on his side, I don't believe he can overcome the greatest super-heavyweight in history, especially in a match with no stipulations to give him an edge.

    Andre's time has finally come in this tournament and I'm elated beyond belief. While it won't be a cakewalk, Andre's size, strength, agility, and experience will overwhelm Flair. Congrats Andre; it's your time.

    Vote Andre.
     
    #22
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  23. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
    E-Fed Mod

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    Kayfabe is still real to some it seems. If this is your argument then stop posting in this thread.


    Flair may injure Andre's knees in an attempt to bring the big man down but that will only get him so far. Without a No DQ stipulation allowing the other horsemen to interfere it's just a matter of time before Andre pins him.

    And if they decide to interfere any way then Andre wins via DQ.
     
    #23
  24. tdmoon

    tdmoon Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Though I've seen others dismiss it, I do like The Brain's arguments for Flair. I agree that Flair, better than anybody, is capable of putting the previous matches punishments behind him. Say what you want about him, his stamina and ability to absorb punishment were second to none.

    I am also in agreement that Flair really does deserve to win one of these. Ric Flair is among the greatest wrestlers of all-time and can make an argument for being the greatest champion of all-time. Championships won and quality of title reigns carry significant weight with me in this tournament; it may even be the number one factor. Flair's championship pedigree alone makes me give serious credence to him winning not only this match, but the tournament itself.

    It is difficult to imagine Flair-hell, anybody-not only hurting, but defeating Andre. He was just so massive and strong. I have never seen a more savvy or more resourceful wrestler than Ric Flair, though. I don't see him being able to make Andre submit to a figure four, or fall prey to a surprise roll-up pin. I have no problem picturing Flair figuring out some way to pick up the win. The most likely scenario I am picturing is Flair luring Andre to the outside and picking up a countout win, something along the lines of the infamous Lawler-Andre "The Night a Midget Beat The Giant" bout.

    Though it may appear I'm submitting a vote for Flair here, I'm not ready to do that. It isn't as easy to make a detailed case for Andre, simply because the case itself is simple....It's freakin' Andre the Giant. Andre is not only towering in size but in his place in wrestling history. He is among the most popular and most influential individuals wrestling has seen. Hell, even women who have no interest in wrestling love Andre; I've had several girlfriends who are fans just because it seems most women in a certain age range have well-worn copies of Princess Bride. Andre even losing a match was huge mainstream news. Andre the Giant is the closest thing to an unstoppable force the wrestling world has ever seen. As accomplished and great as Ric Flair was, it's almost hard to imagine anybody beating a in his prime Andre.

    I can kind of see a tournament like this being a way of getting Andre his due. As great as he was, and as much as he meant to the business, there weren't as many notable achievements available to Andre, especially in regards to championship belts. He was such a presence and so popular he never needed that recognition. In lieu of titles, a tourney win would give Andre the credit he has certainly earned. Flair has closets full of gold and accomplishments; as important as Andre is, it would be great seeing him credited for all that he has meant to wrestling.

    All I know for certain is that I'm glad I still have a few days to decide this. Both Andre and Flair have some very strong arguments(thank you EnviousDominous and Brain for your contributions ITT) and I'm not quite ready to make my selection yet. Hoping to see a few more posts on this before I have to decide!
     
    #24
  25. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Flair's persistence and resiliency were not unlike that of the X-Men's Wolverine. While he would often face plant from exhaustion after simply being whipped into the corner, or literally beg his opponents to become less hostile, he had a profound knack for being able to come back from nearly anything.

    I wouldn't say that he was second to none. I would however say that anyone who's ever compared to his very extreme level of endurance have failed in their attempts last through a match against Andre the Giant.

    Deserving to win the tournament is one thing, being capable of beating the opponent you've been handed is something completely different. This match is about this match, we're here to argue on behalf of this match. Ric Flair may have been an amazing World Champion, but he's lost decisively to people who wouldn't last ten minutes with Andre.

    A countout win? We're starting to sound very desperate to imagine how Ric would win here.

    I'm imagining Andre leaning against the corner of the ring, chatting with the ref while Ric cautiously enters the ring only to dart back outside of it when Andre glances at him. Andre brushes off every attempt by Ric to get out of the ring, and eventually Ric has to allow himself to get within arm's length of Andre to avoid a riot.

    I could see Ric getting a low blow behind the ref's back, thumbing Andre's eye and stomping on Andre's foot. I see those brief advantages having a reverse effect when a pissed off Andre gets his hands on Ric's neck, pulls him into a bear hug and stops short of popping him like a hot pocket.

    One thing I really think we should abstain from is looking at this match like "Who deserves to win the whole tournament?" Opinions in regard to that should be reserved for a different thread.

    Ric had his share of epic World Title matches, but beating Andre would put you in a class that undermines every world title in existence. Flair was big on world titles, not so much on decisively defeating seemingly insurmountable opponents. His win against Vader was beyond anyone's expectation, but Andre had wins against opponents of Vader's caliber that left no question in the minds of fans in regard to whether or not he could defeat them.
     
    #25
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