Championship Region, Sixth Round: (1) Steve Austin vs. (1) John Cena

[klunderbunker]

This is a sixth round match in the Championship Region and it is a standard one on one match. It will be held at AT&T Stadium in Dallas, Texas. This match will take place on the same night as the fifth round match so the wrestlers will not be coming in fresh. The amount of damage will be gauged by the margin of the previous match and the length based on the total number of votes (read as a match with few votes would be short and a lot of votes would be longer).

#1. Steve Austin

Round 5: 47-27


VS.

#1. John Cena

Round 5: 65-19


​

Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

You know what? John Cena is a little bit fresher than Austin, but that doesn't mean that's the way Cena beats him. Cena accomplishements outshines Austin's, but Austin is the #2 wrestler of all time, behind Hogan. This is also in Texas.

Cena and Rock are 1-1, where Austin and Rock are 2-1 for Austin. Plus the Rock Cena faced was a guy who hadn't wrestled for 8 years and Cena lost.

Part of me wants to vote Cena and the other part wants to vote Austin, because logic.

However, if Kurt Angle can get 27 votes against Stone Cold, then Cena deserves at least 10 more. I'll be rooting for Cena in this one. Consider this a passing of the torch, since Austin has won this SOB for 3 times the past years.

Vote......... JOHN CENA!!!! (tuturutuu tuturutuu)

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

However, if Kurt Angle can get 27 votes against Stone Cold, then Cena deserves at least 10 more. I'll be rooting for Cena in this one. Consider this a passing of the torch, since Austin has won this SOB for 3 times the past years.

I can't speak for the other Angle voters but I think a big factor in the closeness of that vote was because he and Austin competed against each other many times, with Angle picking up several wins over Austin. Cena and Race didn't have that direct comparison so that likely played into Cena's dominance in that vote.

Truth be told I'm not overly keen on either of these guys and it does indeed look like Andre's year.

Austin may just shave it for me.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Both appealed to the lowest common denominator, with Austin being a real life South Park character and Cena bashed gay people on a frequent basis, so I'm no fan to either man. But I expect the polarizing Cena to take this.

Cena was on top for a much longer time, isn't damaged nearly as bad as Austin was from the previous round, and he produced a record that went platinum. Austin can't sing worth a shit. I like my stars to carry a tune.


Vote for the meme. Vote Cena.

 

[Rayne]

Really tough one to call here. It's so even in all aspects that I might vote for Cena on account of Steve Austin being a wifebeater.

That's right. We're doing this.

 

[harrythem]

Steve Austin had 2 daughters with a woman from Essex.

They go to the school round my house

Thus Stonecold supports Essex, thus I support Stonecold

Plus the colours of Cena's merch offend the fuck out of my eyes

 

[nightmare]

I would love to see Austin wave his middle finger in front of his face to mock Cena, before delivering a nice stunner. Could have been a hilarious moment.



Ugh. Idk how to go with this one. I like Austin more, but regardless of the mechanics behind how Cena became the top guy- he has been just that for longer than Austin was. Longevity is something to consider here, but who knows how much longer Austin would have gone if not for injuries. That is just a 'what if?' though, so John Cena gets the longevity points here.


Besides the US title run, there are only a few moments from Cena that stand out for me as enjoyable, whereas Austin has dozens more in a shorter period of time. So while Cena may have the longevity vote, the above gives Austin the point in regards for impact during his time.


Big time main events seem to give Austin an edge as well, but that can also be subjective based on who you prefer. I think that his match with Bret and the 3 against Rock were some of the best in Mania history & nothing Cena has done beats those for me.


I am not sure on exact numbers, but I really dont think Cena has outsold Austin in the merch department. Anyone have something that clears this up?


For now I am leaning toward Austin. Cena will surely give him a fight, but in the end I see Steve taking him down. Few can brawl like Austin & I dont think John has been in a fight like Stone Cold will give him. Unless someone brings up something huge for John, I think my current vote stands.

 

[Matyy256]

1997/98 Austin over 2006/07 Cena anyday. Someone mentioned Austin was 2-1 over Rock but if you also count the DX PPV match and the Backlash 99 match Austin is 4-2 against the Rock. Then again Rock's victory over Cena was a bit of a fluke since Cena let his guard down and tried to perform the people's elbow. Cena's longevity shouldn't used against Austin as he had to retire early because of his neck. Cena may have more title runs but Austin was the man when wrestling was at its peak. The margin between Austin and Angle may have been closer but truthfully Race was lucky to make it as far as he did and I'm damn sure Angle would have been a tougher opponent against Cena. Vote Austin.

 

[Cena Is A Punk Rocker]

Something about this entire deal screams Cena/Andre. So because that is the more interesting match up for me. Im voting Cena.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I want to see Cena/Andre in the finals, lets guarantee a first time winner this year. We can pretend all we want that Cena is better and greater than Austin but I think we all know that's simply not true, as great as Cena is he is NO Austin but that's quite alright as well. A lot of that has to do with timing and being in the right place at the right time and Austin came around at a time his character spoke to society in a way that only Hogan has accomplished and Cena can't compete with that through no fault of his own.

One thing that can't be argued though is Cena is one of the biggest stars of all time and only a few guys have reached or surpassed his heights. So far Hogan, Austin and Rock have won this tournament, the only one left of the WWE megastars is John Cena and quite frankly he's due for winning one of these things. Austin has won 3 if I'm not mistaken and quite frankly I'd like to see someone new take the tournament this year and of everyone still remaining who hasn't won I'd say Cena is the obvious choice. Not only that Cena's credentials are no question big enough to warrant putting him over ANYONE. Most of all though, I think in the 10th tournament it would be a fitting story for a megastar who came in second numerous times to finally pull it off and win the whole thing. He's come close so many times and this year is the perfect time to have Cena cross the finish line.

 

[NSL]

While Cena's match was longer, it was by a much more decisive margin. This would still be a close match, but it just feels like one where Austin would be ready for that final Stunner to put that last nail in the coffin, and we get a surprise AA or even an STF for the win in a shock.

I'm not going to argue against Austin here. I will vote for Cena though.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'll vote Austin because I think he's better and would win this match. Austin had a shorter prime, but had a much bigger impact. Far more people tuned in to watch Austin do his thing every week than do for Cena. Austin is universally loved while Cena is the most polarizing guy they've had in that position. I have come around to Cena as an all-time great, but he's no Steve Austin.

 

[Tastycles]

There's 4 ways wrestling companies make money - house shows, PPV, TV ratings and merchandise. Cena, by an enormous margin, wins three of those categories, and whilst he loses TV ratings hands down, that is by far the least profitable, just ask WCW. Cena not only has done this for 2 or 3 years, but for 11 years. 11 years where he never had a foil anywhere near as good as Vince McMahon and where his number 2 players weren't as good as The Rock. Cena is the best professional wrestler of all time and should win it all.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

There's 4 ways wrestling companies make money - house shows, PPV, TV ratings and merchandise. Cena, by an enormous margin, wins three of those categories, and whilst he loses TV ratings hands down, that is by far the least profitable, just ask WCW. Cena not only has done this for 2 or 3 years, but for 11 years. 11 years where he never had a foil anywhere near as good as Vince McMahon and where his number 2 players weren't as good as The Rock. Cena is the best professional wrestler of all time and should win it all.

Just curious here, but if you're using things like merch sales and PPV buys to determine your winner... how do you figure Cena wins everything but TV ratings by an enormous margin?

As far as merchandise alone goes, I'd argue that the "Austin 3:16" shirt by itself has outsold all of Cena's merchandise combined. It's hard to find data from the WWE on this, but they themselves still list that shirt as their greatest ever.

Regarding PPV buyrates? I'll leave you this http://www.2xzone.com/wwe/buyrates.shtml#.VyswRORqIR8

Some of the best years ever, across the board, are the Austin years.

About house shows? Cena has been the biggest draw currently for WWE in that regard, but I seriously doubt his average draw of 5,600 in 2014 (latest I could find data for) tops Austin's average. In fact, it doesn't:

Cena - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2203700-biggest-takeaways-from-wwe-house-show-attendance

Austin - https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/avghouseshow


Austin tops Cena in every single one of your categories.

Just sayin'

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Just curious here, but if you're using things like merch sales and PPV buys to determine your winner... how do you figure Cena wins everything but TV ratings by an enormous margin?

As far as merchandise alone goes, I'd argue that the "Austin 3:16" shirt by itself has outsold all of Cena's merchandise combined. It's hard to find data from the WWE on this, but they themselves still list that shirt as their greatest ever.

Regarding PPV buyrates? I'll leave you this http://www.2xzone.com/wwe/buyrates.shtml#.VyswRORqIR8

Some of the best years ever, across the board, are the Austin years.

About house shows? Cena has been the biggest draw currently for WWE in that regard, but I seriously doubt his average draw of 5,600 in 2014 (latest I could find data for) tops Austin's average. In fact, it doesn't:

Cena - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2203700-biggest-takeaways-from-wwe-house-show-attendance

Austin - https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/avghouseshow


Austin tops Cena in every single one of your categories.

Just sayin'

Austin's 3:16 shirt might be the greatest ever (taking your word), but Cena has about 18 (arbitrary number) different shirts, wrist bands and the like that add up to greater than anyone. Not to mention, he's been selling those for over a decade, and while you can still get an Austin shirt, they're not going to sell nearly as much nowadays or really even just a few years after he left. Place that on top of the fact that he was only active for a short period of time.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Austin's 3:16 shirt might be the greatest ever (taking your word), but Cena has about 18 (arbitrary number) different shirts, wrist bands and the like that add up to greater than anyone. Not to mention, he's been selling those for over a decade, and while you can still get an Austin shirt, they're not going to sell nearly as much nowadays or really even just a few years after he left. Place that on top of the fact that he was only active for a short period of time.

Per Meltzer, in 1998 Austin's merchandise sales numbers were $13 million (adjusted for inflation would be about $18 million today). Forbes estimated that in 1998, he sold 12 million shirts, and his merchandise accounted for 50% of the WWE's total revenue for the year.

Someone's numbers are obviously off a bit, because you weren't buying a shirt for a dollar back then (more like $20), but the point is simple. Austin sold a shit ton of merchandise. For a point of reference, the best year I could find for Cena was 2009, and he sold about $5 million in merchandise.

Yes Cena does sell a lot too, and has been for a long time. And yes, he also has a lot of various things with his name on them being sold.

Thing is... so did (and does) Austin.

It wasn't like he just had the one shirt. He was constantly coming out with new ones. Plus hats, vests, and various other things. One of the most popular items on WWE shop zone right now? An Austin 3:16 beer cozy. Austin was huge on merchandise because that's where he made most of his money (still does). He was no different than Cena in this regard. The major difference between them, is while Cena's never really had that one iconic thing, Austin did. Poll 10 fans on Cena's most iconic shirt, and you'll get a few different answers and a debate. Poll 10 fans on Austin's most iconic shirt, and you'll get a unanimous choice on one item.

Sure he doesn't sell nearly what he did when he was active and the top guy in the company... but he still sells on WWE shop today, and they're actually still coming out with new merchandise for him. In fact, went to shop zone, sorted their t-shirts by best sellers (not sure what type of date range they use), and saw a couple interesting things.

The Austin Podcast woman's tee (new item) and Austin 3:16 are both outselling anything of Cena's (Cena 15x shirt is currently the most popular Cena item). And then the Austin What? shirt is outselling everything else.

I also noticed that holy shit everything looks the same on there (and mostly resembles to varying degrees the type of stuff Austin was coming out with 15-20 years ago.

The point there, is that a guy that hasn't wrestled in 13 years is outselling a guy that hasn't wrestled in in about 4 months. So I don't think it's really fair or accurate to say that Cena wins the merchandise sales category by 'an enormous margin' as Tastycles said.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Aww fuck, I've just realised I voted for Cena when I was meant to click on Austin.

God Dammit.

Please everyone else vote for The Texas Rattlesnake so my mistake doesn't cost him this match.

Cena is good no doubt about it, but Austin is better in every way.

Better promo
Better in-ring
Better gimmick
More entertaining
Bigger draw
Bigger merchandise seller
Better catchphrases
Better finishing move
Better feuds

Headliner of the greatest show of all time (wm17)- Austin
Most famous promo in WWE history- Austin 3:16
Greatest feud in WWE history- Austin v McMahon

The only thing Cena has over Austin is number of title reigns, and you can guarantee that has Austin not retired due to injuries, and had been active and a top guy during the brand split, he'd have Cena's number of reigns.

Vote Austin (please)

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I would hope Cena wins in total merchandise and ticket sales seeing he has been on top for ten or eleven years as opposed to Austin's three or four. There's no way you can convince me Cena has had a hotter run than Austin did. He has been blessed with great health, which is about the only advantage he has over Austin.

 

[Bernkastel]

Realistically speaking I would say that Austin was a bigger star and will probably ultimately be remembered for having a far more profound impact on the industry than John Cena. Austin is the man that presided over the era that allowed WWE to gain a virtual monopoly over the pro wrestling industry. With their victory over WCW, WWE became pro wrestling incarnate. One in the same. John Cena presided over the era where WWE began to expand globally, and was their top ambassador. While John Cena's era was profitable, it was hardly a major boom period or cultural explosion like Austin's. And for that I think Austin should win.

However I can see the arguments for Cena, and he has one major advantage over Steve: his longevity. Most people don't seem to place a whole lot of importance on longevity, but it represents staying power and consistency. John Cena has held the top position in WWE longer than anyone not named Bruno or Hogan. And through all of that he has not lost any drawing power or mass marketing appeal. A remarkable achievement in spite of the overexposure rates of the modern internet era. While it is not fair to call Steve a flash in the pan, because he did set a record breaking run in 1998e, his time on the top was short. So short that Austin never felt the pressure of having to carry a company off and on for as long as Cena has. Austin IRL has nothing but praise for Cena, and if this match were real I have no doubt that Steve would want to do the honors for John, even if promoters were against it.

Ultimately I voted for John because Steve has won this thing 4 times, and Cena is plenty deserving to win one of these.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

This one was a bit difficult for me. I usually take who was the bigger star in their respective primes to base my vote on. If that's close I do take in drawing power and merchandise sales. If that's close I go down my list and very near the bottom is who I like better.

Because these men are so closely matched in every other way I base my vote I had to base my vote on who I like better and that's Austin. I won't pitch a fit if Cena wins though because he's one of the few on Austin's level in every way.

 

[ChickenWaffles]

Citing t-shirt sales is an example of how weak John Cena's case is here. Austin is the biggest star this business has ever seen whereas Cena is the top guy in a period of low interest in professional wrestling. As the poster boy for the last decade he has to shoulder at least part of the blame for that, and in the previous "era" he would not have been as successful (i.e.. when the top tier talent was significantly better than it is now). Vote Austin.

 

[nightmare]

Seems like some people admit Austin was better/bigger yet are still voting for Cena.

So that makes total sense.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I'd like to take another look to this, from a kayfabe standpoint.

Austin's run a the top was from 1998-2003. Let's look at the competition Austin had:
1998: His biggest wins were against Shawn Michales at Wm and against The Undertaker at Summerslam. HBK and Undertaker were the WWF's two biggest stars left from their previous eras. However HBK wasn't really in his peak, due to the back injury. Undertaker was though.

1999: Austin defeats The Rock at Wm. However that was a more like rookie Rock, rather than the Great One. Then he continues his feud with Undertaker, with whom if I remember correctly, they traded many victories back then, but in the end it was always Austin who would come out on top. Then he loses the belt at Summerslam against Foley and HHH and then fails to regain his belt against the rookie main-eventer, HHH.

2000: Austin comes back from injruy beats Rikishi (big deal) and then fails to beat Triple H. Austin wins the Rumble, but fails to beat Triple H again. And then at Wrestlemania against a prime Rock, Austin cheats to win. Then Austin coninues to cheat his way to victory (even taps out to Angle). And after that run up until Vengeance 2001, Austin never becomes the champ again.

Let's take a look at John Cena.
2005: Beats JBL, Y2J and Kurt Angle. All great veteran names in WWE. Loses the belt due to the cash-in against Edge, but no big deal since he takes it back again.
2006: Makes Triple H tap, the same guy Austin never defeated in his prime. Loses the belt to RVD due to shenangians, but no big deal, since he beats Edge in his own match, at his own hometown, TLC-match and takes back the belt. And then he holds that belt for the infinity. Beats HBK, Umaga, Khali, Lashley and Orton. Cena was untouchable. Loses the belt in 2007 due to injury.
2008 was not a very good year for John, since he came back early from his injury and also suffered another one. But who cares? Cena comes back beats Y2J, beats a prime Edge, beats a prime Orton and also beats a prime Batista 3 times in a row at Wrestlemania. Also beats DX in a triple threat match. Also makes HHH tap out again at the EC in 2010. Yeah he might lost the belt to Sheamus (just like Austin lost the belt to Kane).

What i'm trying to do here is compare those two in their prime. Austin prime was from 1998-1999. Cena had a double prime 2005-2007 and 2009-2010. 5 years.

Also I'd like to add that in 1998 Austin didn't have any competition other than The Undertaker. When the real competition kicked in and young talents like HHH and Rock steped up, Austin lost his shit and couldn't even hold his title.

Cena however, bravely fought names like JBL, Angle, Jericho, HBK, HHH.. young names like Edge, Lashley and Orton and monsters like Umaga and The Great Khali. Cena had way more competition than Austin and he squashed his competition. Austin on the other hand? Not so much. He had one legit rival in The Undertaker. 1999 Rock and HHH weren't the world class players they went on to be yet.

This is the best arguement I can make for John Cena here. Leaving merch sales, ticket sales aside and looking at this from a kayfabe standpoint, Austin never reached Cena's dominance, hence why prime Cena can beat Steve Austin.

 

[enviousdominous]

So... I voted Austin.

Both of these men have moments in their careers that stand out to me as the absolute worst moments in the history of pro-wrestling, and those particular moments are regarded by many people as the greatest moments in pro-wrestling history.

When I take a step back and ignore the anger sharks in my head, I look at how each man really captured their turning point in the continuity of kayfabe.

Do any of you remember when John Cena turned face in 2003? I'd be surprised if anybody on here can distinctly remember that occurrence, so here it is:

[YOUTUBE]pYJZ095lUr0[/YOUTUBE]

John has a problem with being told that he's the new member of Team Lesnar, because they didn't ask him politely. Fun. Love the way he tries to mimic Ebonics as well.

In the interest of fairness, here's that Survivor Series match:

[YOUTUBE]NHqZf0hA3OM[/YOUTUBE]

Not a bad match, and Cena sealed the deal for his team. It was a by the numbers, worthwhile effort that we all know paid off big time. It just wasn't that memorable.

For those of you who've lived under a rock for the last twenty years, Steve Austin made a reference to John 3:16 that I don't have to reference with a video because if anyone remembers anything about pro-wrestling they remember that. To cement his status, he had his true breakout moment when taking on Bret Hart after a lengthy series of insulting promos directed toward Bret and the Hart family. If you missed it, here's the match:

[YOUTUBE]UtQ4Pd4z3LE[/YOUTUBE]

Now, I hate Austin, but that was fucking amazing. I don't have to recap any of what happened there because most of us can remember that finish vividly enough that it may as well have happened yesterday.

For all the factors benefiting both men, I look at the resiliency factor as being the most prominent. I think that Austin fought harder, gave more and ultimately stole the hearts of fans all over again with that match. I think that John Cena is worthy of all the praise he's given by his fanbase, but I've never seen John Cena give us that kind of an example of himself.

Vote Austin.

 

[D-Man]

What a match-up. It's pairings like this that make this tournament so worthwhile.

First of all, I REFUSE to vote for Cena purely based on the fact that Austin has won this thing four times. What difference does that make? So, you'd all rather Cena got a sympathy vote? It just makes no sense to me. If Austin continues to win this tournament, then in the eyes of Wrestlezone Forums and its readers, he is the greatest wrestler and most suitable to win. That's all this should EVER be based on; not that it's "Cena's turn to win."

(I bet you think I'm going to vote for Austin now.)

Secondly, I've seen quite a few arguments stating that "Cena is no Steve Austin." That argument might be ever more stupid than the first one I mentioned. In the same breath, I can make a billion arguments about how Austin is no John Cena, either. In present time, they're two polar opposites in the pro-wrestling industry with completely different paths to their individual successes. However, everyone needs to remember that Cena filled an incredibly large void in the wrestling industry, post-Attitude Era. And the void he filled was chock-full of attitude. I give you Exhibit A:

[youtube]Dl8CrbJwZ2k[/youtube]

One one hand, you've got a guy like Austin who saved an entire company from be annihilated by their biggest direct-threat. And during which time the WWE could print its own money. He is (arguably) the most popular superstar of all time.

One the other hand, you've got John Cena who carried the same company on its back in an era where the same company was taking a major nosedive, was re-branding itself, lost much of its powerhouse roster, and was looking for someone to not only change the company but to bring it into a new era.

So what's more important? A guy who took a company's success to unimaginable heights during a time period where he was backed by a bulletproof roster and an era that was created to fit him like a tailored suit? Or a guy who rose from the fallout of being a goldfish in an ocean and carried a company on his back during an era where the company probably struggled the most since the early-to-mid 90's?

(I bet you think I'm going to vote for Cena now.)

In summation, this is obvious a tough decision for me. Sure, Austin's popularity stuck with him throughout the years. And most older fans like him more than John Cena. But then again, since he hasn't needed to reinvent himself since retiring, fans only remember Austin as being a middle-finger-sticking, beer-drinking, foul-mouthed rebel. But Cena needed to reinvent himself and has successfully done that over and over again. Granted, fans are tired of this current version of one of his reinventions but there was a time when it was loved by everyone, too.

I'm still undecided. This hurts my brain.