Brock & Undertaker: What Does Each Gain By Winning?

[Mustang Sally]

If Undertaker wins his Summerslam match against Brock Lesnar, what good falls his way?

Essentially, very little. After he lost to Brock two years ago, he never showed up in the months afterward to address the loss of his Streak.... and I figured the odds were even we'd never see him in the ring again. Instead, he showed up at WM31 without an advance appearance, leaving Bray Wyatt to handle the build-up for the match by his lonesome. Okay, so 'Taker was now finished, wanting to end with a win? Fair enough.

So, how big a surprise is it to see him at the biggest mid-year PPV? Yes, we figure he's facing Brock to avenge his defeat, although I can't figure out why he's so mad at Brock; wasn't the guy just doing what he was supposed to do when matched with 'Taker? It's not as if Brock cheated to win.

Okay, so if 'Taker wins in August, he gets back at Brock. So what? The Streak is still a thing of the past, right? While it will be a spectacle worth watching (Undertaker in full 'gunslinger' mode still scares the hell out of me) he surely isn't coming back to wrestle any type of schedule, right? So what is he doing this for? A boatload of cash?

Probably.

*********

Meanwhile, what's in it for Brock Lesnar if he emerges victorious?

Again, not much. If he wins, he's beating the same guy he beat before ....someone who, as incredible as it seems, works less matches than Brock himself. There are no titles at stake, no boost in rep for Brock......and likely no interesting repercussions from the match, unless you're interested in Undertaker-Brock III.

The scared look on Brock's face at the first sight of Undertaker was priceless....it seems that Brock's having given up his MMA plans and committing entirely to pro wrestling has boosted his enthusiasm for working in WWE, which is a terrific thing. It makes him seem more a member of the company than just a seldom-seen mercenary.

But, 'Taker-Brock II? I would say the only reason for this contest is to build the gate for Summerslam. No other compelling reason.

I also think it will do what they want it to do. What do you think?

 

[HORRORHOLIC]

The Undertaker has NEVER beat Brock in a one on one match so him finally proving to everyone especially himself that he can do it would mean something.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

You beat me to making this thread Sally,

All signs point to Undertaker getting his win back. Which helps no one involved and likely leads to an even more unwanted rematch at Wrestlemania in Dallas. Yeah this match is a huge draw there is no disputing that, but if Undertaker wins, everything Brock has been built up to be over the last year and a half will be all for nothing. Ending the most coveted streak in the history of pro wrestling and being buit up as THE boss in WWE to defeat...only for the guy he beat in the first place to knock him off his throne.

It makes no sense and makes the last 15 months or so of Brock being unbeatable and no selling everything completely worthless if he is just going to up and lose to Undertaker. No one thinks any different of Undertaker. There is no shame in losing to Brock freaking Lesnar kayfabe or not. I always thought it was interesting that Brock was the one who "got away" so to speak for Taker and would have let it stay that way. In this day and age everyone beats everyone in wrestling sooner or later.

If Brock wins all is fine and dandy, but it doesn't do anything for him either. I mean beating the same guy who he sent to the hospital after their last match doesn't make Brock anymore terrifying than he already is. If Brock winning is the plan then I am game even though this match never needed to happen. Makes Undertaker look like a sore loser more than anything else. If Undertaker wins, I just am not sure what the point of the streak ending in the first place was.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It makes no sense and makes the last 15 months or so of Brock being unbeatable and no selling everything completely worthless if he is just going to up and lose to Undertaker.

Exactly. What's the sense of building Brock to god-like dimensions these past two years only to have him lose to a guy who wrestles once a year? Yet, what's the sense of staging this match if Undertaker loses again?

Then again, this is the Undertaker, and his legend alone might be enough to have him avenge his defeat without costing Brock much in the 'standings.'

So, it seems both guys have something to lose, yet neither gains much by winning. Great, huh?

This match seems to cry out for an unclean ending, yet I'd hate to think WWE would allow one in this setting.

What to do?

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

What to do?

and thats the beauty of where we are at right now.

Nobody has a clue where to go because we can’t see what the other has to gain. If it was an up and comer vs one of these guys then we could sit here and debate whether it’s time to put the up and comer over or to put a notch so to speak on these guys post. Instead what we have is a situation where if ‘Taker wins we are saying it wastes all Brocks momentum. If Brock wins why bring ‘Taker back? They are the 2 things I keep reading about this.

To be honest with you I have no answers. I’d probably lean more towards Lesnar winning again to kick off ‘Takers retirement angle.

The people who do have something to gain even way? Us the fans because mark my words this is going to be fucking awesome.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

Exactly. What's the sense of building Brock to god-like dimensions these past two years only to have him lose to a guy who wrestles once a year? Yet, what's the sense of staging this match if Undertaker loses again?

Then again, this is the Undertaker, and his legend alone might be enough to have him avenge his defeat without costing Brock much in the 'standings.'

So, it seems both guys have something to lose, yet neither gains much by winning. Great, huh?

This match seems to cry out for an unclean ending, yet I'd hate to think WWE would allow one in this setting.

What to do?

Not only is it Undertaker not being a full time performer who could benefit HUGE by getting the rub, he's essentially on his way out the door soon (one would think), which makes it even more head scratching if he wins.

From what I have read over the years, being both in books and listening to interviews, Undertaker has always been as professional as they come and has always done the right thing. Reasons why he's one if not the most respected wrestlers of all time. So for him wanting a win against Brock before he goes out seems unlikely. This smells of Vince to me personally. Or maybe Taker DOES want at least one win against Brock. Who knows I am just a viewer this all just perception from the outside.

A screwy finish going to a double disqualification would likely be the best scenario for this match for all involved or Lesnar beating Taker senseless and having the match stopped allowing Taker to leave until Mania. Alas, this would obviously lead to a dreaded rematch at Wrestlemania 32. Something I don't think anyone wants. At least I don't. Plenty of other better options to go.

No matter what I think they almost have to go with a screwy finish to protect both guys. Undertaker wins, it's basically a big middle finger to all of us who sat through the last 15 months wondering who on earth could beat someone like Brock Lesnar. Brock wins, we all go collectively "so what?"

 

[LBGetBack]

Kayfabe-wise, Brock also had just intentionally injured Kane the previous week.

While they've always had an odd relationship, it is not out of character for Taker to come to Kane's defense. It's happened before. Perhaps seeing the guy who broke his streak also taking out his brother was enough to put him over the edge. Again.....kayfabe wise.


* Also, if Taker joins the Authority and reinvents himself I would LOVE it. May not be popular with many others, but I've never been much of a fan of Taker's gimmick. I realize that many others disagree, but all that spooky, supernatural dead man stuff was just dumb to me even when I was 10. Not my thing.

Taker reinventing himself and becoming an onscreen character who doesn't wrestle(except maybe on special occasion like Triple H) would have so much potential IMO. He's well known as a locker room leader.....maybe he becomes a heel version of that, punking out guys for power-tripping reasons.

 

[Blade]

What does Undertaker gain? I'm not really sure. Does it really matter to his legacy if he gains revenge on Lesnar? I don't think so. People will remember the Streak ending. But the fact that the Streak is remembered in that way shows that Undertaker has already cemented his legacy. And, short of pulling a Hogan or a Benoit, his legacy can never be tarnished. He has nothing to prove. And, if the stories are true, Taker is the kind of guy who would want to put someone over before he retires. Which we obviously know is soon.

Which makes me think, does this match give us an indication of of Taker's imminent retirement? Assuming he faces Sting at Wrestlemania 32, then this Lesnar angle is the only unfinished piece of business in the Undertaker's story. Maybe they're going to wrap it up before a retirement match next year? Either way, that's not a strong enough argument for Taker to win.

As for Lesnar? Well, if he beats the Undertaker completely clean again, that makes him even more credible. This is the guy who ended the Streak, destroyed John Cena, beat Roman Reigns' face too a pulp. Why not have him essentially retire Undertaker too?

There's no such thing as "too strong." A wrestler can never look too strong. The stronger Lesnar looks, the better he can put over a younger guy when the time comes, whether it's against Reigns, or Rollins, or Owens, or whoever.

Look what defeating the seemingly-undefeatable did for Lesnar. He went from a part-time attraction with an almost 50/50 win/loss record, and became the guy to beat in the WWE. His next clean loss will be an even bigger deal than when Cena loses clean. And beating the Undertaker again will only make his clean loss that much better.

Like I said, Lesnar got his mythical aura of invincibility from beating the Undertaker. If Undertaker comes back and beats Lesnar clean, that damages Lesnar. It shows that he is actually human. And shouldn't that revelation be reserved for someone who can use it in the future?

Lesnar should go over. It's better for the long-term.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Neither one gains anything.

Brock Lesnar has already been handed EVERYTHING on a silver platter. Yet another win over Undertaker is just one more cherry on top of his sundae.

Undertaker winning means nothing. The Streak is still dead, and the win being at any event other than WrestleMania makes it irrelevant.

This is the most highly-anticipated completely irrelevant match in history.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This match is about keeping up the Network numbers. They haven't put the numbers out in a while and SummerSlam seems to be the right time to do it.

Either of these guys gaining doesn't mean much as they are both going to disappear not long if not immediately after the match.

I kind of expect Lesnar to win and get horribly wounded in the process to have an excuse to take more time off. Maybe he can "rebreak" those ribs.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I am going to break down the pros and cons regarding a victory for each man:

Undertaker wins
Pros
1) He gets back his lost "dignity" after the streak broke.
2) He gets his first victory over Lesnar.

Cons
1) Streak breaking means very little. The reason the streak broke, was to elevate Brock Lesnar as a major draw and also use this rub, in order to create the next megastar, since the guy that was going to pin Lesnar would get a HUGE rub. Noone has pinned Lesnar in 2 years.
2) Brock might lose some credibility as the monster, since he's going to lose to a 50 year old man.

Brock Lesnar wins
Pros
1) The rub, Lesnar's monster nature, all stay there and also freshen up, in order to create the next megastar at WM 32 (possibly).
2) Lesnar's here to stay, Undertaker is close to retirement. It's an old wrestling rule. Lesnar still has something to gain by beating Taker, while Taker doesn't really gain much..

Cons
1) Undertaker will stay Lesnar's bitch. Taker has NEVER beat Brock Lesnar. I don't think it's bad, Taker's legacy doesn't suffer from that, but still it would be good to see some redemption.

Weighting these pros and cons, it's safe to say that Lesnar winning is best for bussiness, while Taker winning is best for fans. The perfect scenario would be to have Taker win this one, then Brock to go all heel and have a rubber match, maybe at SSeries, were Lesnar finally wins the feud by making Taker tap-out.

However, since a rubber match, might won't be happening before 'Mania, I see Brock picking up the win, defending "the streak" successfully and also keeping his monster nature intact.
I want to see Taker killing Lesnar, but Lesnar going over is better for long term.. Except if there will be a rubber match before 'Mania.

 

[Chicago1989]

If I was booking this thing, I would either have Brock go over Taker again or have some screwy finish happen at SummerSlam. That way, it plants seeds for a storyline of which Undertaker still wants to redeem his loss and wants to do it at WrestleMania, which is where he should have his last match, and finally avenge his loss and to FINALLY be able to beat a guy that Undertaker has never beaten in Brock Lesnar.

 

[mlp420]

This is one of those matches where you're better served being a fan than an armchair booker. It's Taker getting his long overdue revenge against the guy that ended his WM streak. If Brock wins he'll be the first to have beaten Taker in a match where Taker is out for revenge. That's really all there is to it.

 

[OYDK]

Well, that also begs the question, what does Brock Lesnar gain from beating anybody on the roster? Does it really matter if he beats John Cena again? He's done it in dominating fashion once already. Would it have mattered if he beat Seth Rollins, the guy who's needed a boatload of help just to pin... well everybody? To the casuals, Taker still has a legendary aura around him and pinning him will do more for Lesnar than if he were to pin just about anybody else in my opinion.

Pinning The Undertaker again just reiterates the fact that he's the most dominant man in wrestling history. And I do wholly believe that he will pin Taker one more time. I just can't see Taker being the one to pin or submit Lesnar after 2 and a half years (or so Cole says) of dominance.

Also, I don't think Taker had a problem with losing to Lesnar at Mania, it was the fact that Lesnar (or Heyman) constantly rubbed it in his face for a year and a half. Taker said that in his promo if I'm not mistaken. Basically, it's a match that will draw a ton of eyes to Summerslam and the Network and it will allow Lesnar to seem even more unstoppable. I personally, don't really see the problem that many people have with this match, to be honest.

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

If Undertaker wins his Summerslam match against Brock Lesnar, what good falls his way?

Essentially, very little. After he lost to Brock two years ago, he never showed up in the months afterward to address the loss of his Streak.... and I figured the odds were even we'd never see him in the ring again. Instead, he showed up at WM31 without an advance appearance, leaving Bray Wyatt to handle the build-up for the match by his lonesome. Okay, so 'Taker was now finished, wanting to end with a win? Fair enough.

So, how big a surprise is it to see him at the biggest mid-year PPV? Yes, we figure he's facing Brock to avenge his defeat, although I can't figure out why he's so mad at Brock; wasn't the guy just doing what he was supposed to do when matched with 'Taker? It's not as if Brock cheated to win.

Okay, so if 'Taker wins in August, he gets back at Brock. So what? The Streak is still a thing of the past, right? While it will be a spectacle worth watching (Undertaker in full 'gunslinger' mode still scares the hell out of me) he surely isn't coming back to wrestle any type of schedule, right? So what is he doing this for? A boatload of cash?

Probably.

*********

Meanwhile, what's in it for Brock Lesnar if he emerges victorious?

Again, not much. If he wins, he's beating the same guy he beat before ....someone who, as incredible as it seems, works less matches than Brock himself. There are no titles at stake, no boost in rep for Brock......and likely no interesting repercussions from the match, unless you're interested in Undertaker-Brock III.

The scared look on Brock's face at the first sight of Undertaker was priceless....it seems that Brock's having given up his MMA plans and committing entirely to pro wrestling has boosted his enthusiasm for working in WWE, which is a terrific thing. It makes him seem more a member of the company than just a seldom-seen mercenary.

But, 'Taker-Brock II? I would say the only reason for this contest is to build the gate for Summerslam. No other compelling reason.

I also think it will do what they want it to do. What do you think?

Brock cannot have his reputation tarnished at this point afterall he is the man that beat the man as Ric Flair would say it in his own words! Brock has a lot to gain cause he is a face now and way things are going underfaker is a heel! Brock will be elevated as the most dominant force in wrestling history to beat faker not once but twice and probably 3 times! It is stupid what Mark is doing cause he is in the one that practically begged Lesner when he appeared in UFC to end his career and legacy and pass the torch! This is some waste of a build up cause its been 2 years ago and I agree what is the point? I see some interference in here and Bray Wyatt interfering can help boost by adding STING in it

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

If I was booking this thing, I would either have Brock go over Taker again or have some screwy finish happen at SummerSlam. That way, it plants seeds for a storyline of which Undertaker still wants to redeem his loss and wants to do it at WrestleMania, which is where he should have his last match, and finally avenge his loss and to FINALLY be able to beat a guy that Undertaker has never beaten in Brock Lesnar.

Noone wants to see recycled matches of best of 3 we all jeered when ROck lost to cena and if they go at it again for the 3rd time fans won t care to see it
So in fact we all ask that that cripplin wearin, bone tearin, mascara wearin, leather claddin, beer bellin to hang up his boots once and for all or go after STING as fans want to see. Brock is the man that beat the man he is a dominant force I would book Brock to win over mark or have an interference happen with Kane or Bray Wyatt cause Brocks loss will tarnish his reputation as we don t want to see Brock job anymore

 

[miamicanes460]

Neither can really afford to lose cleanly.

My bet is that Sting costs Taker the match and it keeps Brock looking strong and it gives Taker and Sting a reason to fight at Mania, where Taker will go over. It makes perfect WWE sense.

 

[stingray11214]

SummerSlam was sold out long before this match was even created. Problem was trying to get those people to drop $9.99 a month to keep on dropping it. Brock/Taker at least keeps those eyeballs. When Trips said on RAW that "We ALL had a vested interest", he was not kidding. That was the ONLY reason this match was made. It does NOTHING for Taker as his legacy is in granite already. It does nothing for Brock as he has been a real badass since coming back. This has EVERYTHING to do with the bottom kine and keeping shareholders happy. If they can break $240 million a year from the Network, it will go a long way in keeping the money people happy.

 

[hatehabsforever]

The simple fact of the matter is, at face value, neither guy benefits from this matchup and personally, I have very little interest in seeing this rematch. If Brock Lesnar wins and the Undertaker loses, it's just a repeat of their Wrestlemania match, and really would shock virtually no one. Lesnar was neither afraid of or intimidated by Taker 1+ years ago. Presumably he would not be again now, and he would knock the shit out of him again. Which has no effect on either guy whatsoever, and I have zero interest in seeing this play out.

If the Undertaker beats the Beast Incarnate, it would stretch plausibility far beyond what I can accept. I mean come on, kayfabe only stretches so far. Lesnar runs rampant over everyone in his path, including the Deadman, then loses to him over a year later? Beyond stupid. At least on RAW, there was the "shock value" of the Undertaker's appearance. That doesn't exist in an announced match.

The only way this match doesn't seem pointless to me is if there's some sort of outside interference that either results in a no decision, or a loss by one guy due to outside interference. Such as a scenario like this.

Brock Lesnar is running roughshod over Taker again. After a little initial Undertaker offense (to save face), Lesnar begins beating the shit out of Taker yet again. The lights go out, and Sting makes an appearance. Dazed and confused by the iconic appearance, Sting gets in a little offense on Lesnar. By then, Taker has had time to recover, and he pins Lesnar 1-2-3. The Phenom and the Icon send face to face, as the show ends.

The next night on RAW, the two of them meet in the ring. Undertaker thanks Sting for the help, but Sting says he's not interested in thanks. What he is interested in is a match with the Undertaker. At Survivor Series. Which, of course, Sting wins, setting up their Wrestlemania 32 rematch, which Taker wins in a double retirement match.

That's all I got, anything else for me will be lackluster.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In terms of each man's place in wrestling history, there's not much to be gained in the grand scheme of things. Unless there's some mega falling out, both men will wind up in the WWE Hall of Fame at some point in time.

If Taker wins, he'll have gained minor revenge for Lesnar's defeat of him at WrestleMania, but it's pretty much inconsequential because there's no loss Taker could hand Lesnar that would remotely compare with the moment of shock & awe that was experienced when Lesnar broke the streak 15 months or so ago.

If Lesnar wins, it's ultimately just a means of further establishing his dominance, though it's pretty difficult to add onto that when you consider Lesnar's overall impact. He's the youngest World Champion in WWE history, he wound up winning the UFC Heavyweight Championship in his MMA career, he comes back to WWE to dominate almost as though he never left, winds up breaking Taker's streak and hands Cena the most devastating and decisive loss of his career. Unlike Taker, the biggest damper to Lesnar's career is that the man has no passion, no real love for anything he's ever done as it's all been 100% about the money.

What the WWE gains out of this is a big money match regardless of who wins. A lot of people are going to subscribe to the WWE Network for the novelty of a rematch "15 months in the making." At this point, I get the notion that everyone's ultimately just hoping the match is fairly entertaining and Taker comes out in one piece.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Brock has a lot to gain cause he is a face now and way things are going underfaker is a heel!

Actually, you're hitting on a point I missed. Yes, by all intents and purposes, Undertaker is functioning as the bad guy for this encounter. He appeared out of nowhere, viciously fronting Brock, whom the company is now trying to paint as a hero. 'Taker seems to be mad as hell about.......what? Brock beating him? That's what Brock was supposed to be shooting for 2 years ago, right? The fact 'Taker is coming off as a heel is something radically different for him, right?

And the thing is.......who's gonna boo him, no matter what he does between now and Summerslam? After 932 years of being a face, how can he be regarded as a villain against Brock?

Conversely, Brock is apparently being depicted as the good guy against Undertaker. Huh? Do you buy it? After years of heel-dom, why is Brock suddenly a good guy?

Oh, that's right.....he opposed Seth Rollins and his Merry Band of Men. So now Brock is being cheered.....as much because he's earned our appreciation as the fact Undertaker is presenting as a bad guy.

So......who in hell do we root for? Who's the face and who's the heel? How do we root against a living legend and root for a vicious, sadistic mercenary rulebreaker?

Come to think of it, maybe this is a more interesting match-up than I thought.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

If they were smart.. they would use this match to enhance other possible matches that may be in the books ( separately of coarse ) for Wrestlemainia 32. Double interference to end the match or some kind of shocking goddamn attack spurring a brawl. If this really is going to be The Main Event for Summerslam then at least give us some kind of crazy Undertaker-like ending. You know the match itself is not going to be that great so...might as well have Undertaker shoot lightning out of his eyes at the end of the match and zap HHH or whoever attacks him. Then Brock can lift the entire ring and flip it over on to the first seven rows of people. All those people paid stuntmen so Vince doesn't get sued.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Undertakers gain by winning - I suppose he can say he avenged his loss for The Streak, as silly as it sounds. Or he can claim that HE is the only guy that can destroy or handle the other god-like character The Beast himself, Brock Lesnar. He can also gain a new opponent for Wrestlemania if they have people attack him after he wins.

Brock Lesnar's gain by winning - I would say you could look at it as, He's doing it for Paul Haymen and not himself. Paul Haymen has had half of his career in and out of The Undertakers business. Undertaker has been beating Haymen all this time, like Hogan thwarted Bobby The Brains family his whole career in the 80's. He can - Do it for Haymen - But you could say he already did by taking The Streak. I don't know, he can say he's still an unbeatable god-like monster and destroy Taker in two minutes.

 

[mont3818]

Simple, Taker Gets To Beat Lesnar For The First Time Ever In Singles Competitio And Ride Into His Retirement Match At WM32 With Momentum. If Brock Wins He Gets To Keep His Unbelievable Run He Has Been On And Put Taker To Rest For Good. Seems Like Each Man Has A Lot Of Gain (And A Lot To Lose) From The Match. High Stakes! Isn'tThat Why We Watch In The First Place?

I Believe There's A Way To Lessen The Damage To Brock If He Loses... Have Him Get (Kayfabe) Injured During The Match To Make It A Little More Believable That Taker Could Win, Not Kill Brocks Momentum, And Allow Him To Go On His Obligatory Hiatus After The Match.

 

[L@RISANO]

Since everyone has said the relevant stuff about the match and Sally's topic, I will make a very far-off prediction well in advance... with Reigns vs Lesnar being rumoured for Mania 32... I say that Reigns is manipulated by Bray Wyatt into going heel and He is the one who will cost Lesnar the win against Taker to start the wheels in motion for a possible Mania rematch. Taker, on the other hand, will go to announce his end after gaining retribution when Sting shows up.