Brock & Undertaker: What Does Each Gain By Winning?

[Luke Sandell]

Neither one gains anything.

Said perfectly. This is the thing, the E's creative team is so bad at setting proper feuds up anymore, and once that they're done with dead-end feuds they just don't know what to do with their stars.

Take a look at Ambrose, he had a feud with Rollins but since then he's just been floating around doing nothing. He's a possible main eventer but he's just sitting around the mid-card.

And this is why I worry, it looks like they're setting up for the rubber match between the 2 at Wrestlemania. Now while that's a big draw, what does the E plan to do with Lesnar after he inevitably loses at Summerslam? The past 15 months he's been booked as an absolute monster. THE guy to beat right now. He's going to look fairly weak after being beat by an old man.

What does Undertaker do with this win? Not much what so ever. He beats the guy that took his streak...after 15 months. I can't see this being much of a vengeance personally.

All that being said, this does seem to be the match we will have to grovel through just to receive the WM32 match, so I guess we will complain what ever happens, even though it doesn't matter in the long run.


Inevitably though you're just going to hear people saying this could be to set up Cena's heel turn at WM32. "He comes out and costs Undertaker his retirement match yada yada yada". But that's for a different thread...

 

[Luke Sandell]

Since everyone has said the relevant stuff about the match and Sally's topic, I will make a very far-off prediction well in advance... with Reigns vs Lesnar being rumoured for Mania 32... I say that Reigns is manipulated by Bray Wyatt into going heel and He is the one who will cost Lesnar the win against Taker to start the wheels in motion for a possible Mania rematch. Taker, on the other hand, will go to announce his end after gaining retribution when Sting shows up.

If only, gahh that'd be perfect.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Lesnar again looks like an unbeatable monster.

Taker gets revenge for the Streak and restores his legacy.

Does Lesnar still look like an unbeatable monster? Yes. Does Taker need to defeat Lesnar to restore his legacy? No. It's just for the money, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Although I'm not interested in this match.

 

[whoopin' ass]

See, that is the problem with pushing part-time wrestlers - what's the story? With Lesnar and Taker, there is no real purpose behind it. Let's step back a second and look at Sting. People wanted Sting vs Taker and it would have been an extremely easy match to make. You don't need a build-up, you don't really need an angle even - simply have Sting appear and say he wants to take on Taker. You make it a special attraction, outside of current storylines and have the match. Simple, straightforward and gives the audience what whey want. But what happened instead - we get Sting vs HHH in this storyline that makes no sense and leads nowhere. Who in their right mind would put all that effort into something when there is a simple storyline that takes virtually no effort and is going to get the same or better results? That's wwe right now.

The Taker streak was another one of those storylines that needed no work - someone decides they an be the one to take down Taker at Mania but ultimately fails. Usually leads nowhere but at least it is a big match. When Lesnar beat Taker, that should have been the end of it - Taker should have been done and Lesnar played out like it should. Now, they want to continue that feud but to what end? Taker wins and what, he get a title shot? Sting challenges him to a Mania match? Why? Having Taker come back a year and a half after the loss makes no sense and a win by him gains nothing except for maybe a temporary boost in ratings if he appears more. But are they really going to make him champ again? Yeah, again it is the temp ratings boost like when Rock won the title but then again, how did Rock winning really help the company? Why would Taker winning help if Rock didn't? So ultimately with Taker winning, all you get is that little ratings boost but nothing more.

With Lesnar, a win makes him still seem strong but again, to what end? Are they making him champ again? His being champ sure didn't seem to help last time. Are they going to build him up to help put someone over? Unlikely - Rollins could have pinned him at Mania and didn't. Seems only guys who pin Lesnar are your HHH's and Cena's - established guys. And is he loses, so what? Look at wwe in the past - top guy loses to another top guy, goes out next night and dominates lesser talent. Remember Cena losing to Lesnar and then dominating the Wyatt family the next night? So Lesnar loses, comes out and destroys Ambrose or Rollins or someone - he gets "suspended" for his actions until the Rumble and then be gets brought back. Again, what did you gain?

Ultimately, you gain nothing storywise from this match. I think there is a place for these kinds of matches but these types of matches need to be special attraction matches outside of the regular storylines. You need to build talent and can't keep running back to these guys to do that unless you are going to let the younger talent get big wins and Vince won't do that. You know, it is kind of funny - Vince wanted Austin to lose to Lesnar his first night in the company with no sort of buildup or anything and was shocked when Austin said "screw you". Look at today: even when it makes sense, Vince won't let his to guys lose to the younger talent. Boy things have changed.

 

[kadroan]

You beat me to making this thread Sally,

All signs point to Undertaker getting his win back. Which helps no one involved and likely leads to an even more unwanted rematch at Wrestlemania in Dallas. Yeah this match is a huge draw there is no disputing that, but if Undertaker wins, everything Brock has been built up to be over the last year and a half will be all for nothing. Ending the most coveted streak in the history of pro wrestling and being buit up as THE boss in WWE to defeat...only for the guy he beat in the first place to knock him off his throne.

It makes no sense and makes the last 15 months or so of Brock being unbeatable and no selling everything completely worthless if he is just going to up and lose to Undertaker. No one thinks any different of Undertaker. There is no shame in losing to Brock freaking Lesnar kayfabe or not. I always thought it was interesting that Brock was the one who "got away" so to speak for Taker and would have let it stay that way. In this day and age everyone beats everyone in wrestling sooner or later.

If Brock wins all is fine and dandy, but it doesn't do anything for him either. I mean beating the same guy who he sent to the hospital after their last match doesn't make Brock anymore terrifying than he already is. If Brock winning is the plan then I am game even though this match never needed to happen. Makes Undertaker look like a sore loser more than anything else. If Undertaker wins, I just am not sure what the point of the streak ending in the first place was.

Taker - looks like a legit threat again and when he returns for his annual WrestleMania match, it would actually be a big deal. Taker would probably be the favorite in his WrestleMania match like he was in the past.

Brock - Looks even more dangerous. Not too many people can say Taker has never beat them. Should put Brock back in the title picture whether he takes a break or not.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

Taker - looks like a legit threat again and when he returns for his annual WrestleMania match, it would actually be a big deal. Taker would probably be the favorite in his WrestleMania match like he was in the past.

Brock - Looks even more dangerous. Not too many people can say Taker has never beat them. Should put Brock back in the title picture whether he takes a break or not.

Undertaker doesn't need to do anything ever again to look like a legit threat. He's the Undertaker. He could return unannounced and win the World Title in the same night and nobody would question it. He just swatted Bray Wyatt away like a fly at Wrestlemania. Undertaker at Wrestlemania is always going to be big no matter what. He doesn't need to win anything to further establish this. Certainly not this match to the guy who ended his 21-0 streak completely fair and square. All that is going on is he is looking like a sore loser throwing his toys of the crib in this feud.

Brock doesn't need to beat the Undertaker to be put back into the title picture. He can be inserted whenever they feel he needs to be. Realistically speaking, there is nothing left to do in WWE for Brock but compete for the world title. When you end a streak like that and squash John Cena I highly doubt there is anywhere else to go.

To sum it up, nobody needs this feud nor do they need to win nor does it need to happen except for an increase in network subscriptions for a night. Something that could seriously do more harm than good if this match goes down bullshit alley with Undertaker winning.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

My sources told me that at the end of Summerslam...Undertaker and Roman Reigns will be standing alone in the ring, the lights will go out and when they come back on...Roman Reigns will be in Undertakers gear and The Original Deadman will have vanished from the ring. Roman Reigns will be the new Undertaker.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Undertaker doesn't need to do anything ever again to look like a legit threat. He's the Undertaker. He could return unannounced and win the World Title in the same night and nobody would question it.

okay but why? 5 years ago i would have agreed with you but now you have a guy who wrestles once a year. As well, the guy in the ring isn't the same Undertaker who used to strike fear into the hearts of his opponents. The worst thing these once a year appearances have done to Undertaker is show that is he a person after all. If you are going to accept that, then he doesn't look like a legit threat anymore. If you want to go with the idea that he is the Phenom Undertaker, then he still isn't a threat since Lesnar beat him so others can. Anyone watching him over the last few years would see a big change compared to him from before. The fact that he only wrestles once a year is a big change in character - why isn't he still there collecting souls? Plus, would you buy Hogan or Flair winning the title? How about Big Show? They are all former champs too.

If you have Taker wrestling once a year in non-storyline matches, the mystic of the Undertaker is preserved somewhat - he only needs to show up once a year to show it is still his yard. But Lesnar beat him which showed it isn't his yard anymore. As well, he came back a year and half later to attack Lesnar. That's doesn't make Taker look strong. He screwed him out of the title - how about doing that a year ago against Cena? Or why didn't he attack him sooner? His waiting so long makes him look weak. If Vince wanted to rebuild Taker for a retirement match, then he shouldn't have faced Wyatt. If they were planing Wyatt/Taker 2, they should have been dropping hints since the Mania match. This just reeks of desperation from the wwe - ratings are down so we are going to bring back Taker early.

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

okay but why? 5 years ago i would have agreed with you but now you have a guy who wrestles once a year. As well, the guy in the ring isn't the same Undertaker who used to strike fear into the hearts of his opponents. The worst thing these once a year appearances have done to Undertaker is show that is he a person after all. If you are going to accept that, then he doesn't look like a legit threat anymore. If you want to go with the idea that he is the Phenom Undertaker, then he still isn't a threat since Lesnar beat him so others can. Anyone watching him over the last few years would see a big change compared to him from before. The fact that he only wrestles once a year is a big change in character - why isn't he still there collecting souls? Plus, would you buy Hogan or Flair winning the title? How about Big Show? They are all former champs too.

If you have Taker wrestling once a year in non-storyline matches, the mystic of the Undertaker is preserved somewhat - he only needs to show up once a year to show it is still his yard. But Lesnar beat him which showed it isn't his yard anymore. As well, he came back a year and half later to attack Lesnar. That's doesn't make Taker look strong. He screwed him out of the title - how about doing that a year ago against Cena? Or why didn't he attack him sooner? His waiting so long makes him look weak. If Vince wanted to rebuild Taker for a retirement match, then he shouldn't have faced Wyatt. If they were planing Wyatt/Taker 2, they should have been dropping hints since the Mania match. This just reeks of desperation from the wwe - ratings are down so we are going to bring back Taker early.

I totally agree with you wwe is losing ratings and fanbase as many fans are adverting to UFC since CM Punk announced he signed with UFC now there are rumors Lesner is heading to UFC soon enough. I keep saying the same thing Mark calloway is no phenom he has no mystical powers he begged Lesner at a UFC event to bury him and beat him to end his streak prior to WM30 and it was done the torch was passed the streak is broken and that s it
To be the man you got to beat the man as Flair used to say and Lesner is a dominant threatening force he beat the cripplin wearin, mascara wearin , leather claddin , bone tearin old man so what does he have left? He should retire and have a last match with STING

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

Since everyone has said the relevant stuff about the match and Sally's topic, I will make a very far-off prediction well in advance... with Reigns vs Lesnar being rumoured for Mania 32... I say that Reigns is manipulated by Bray Wyatt into going heel and He is the one who will cost Lesnar the win against Taker to start the wheels in motion for a possible Mania rematch. Taker, on the other hand, will go to announce his end after gaining retribution when Sting shows up.

You got a valid point there I must admit I ll even go as further to extend the branches that KANE will interfere and If Bray Wyatt steps in with Reigns than for sure hell STING will be in it I see Reigns turning on STING on the 6 man tag team with Dean Ambrose

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

Undertaker gains nothing from winning, and he should not win. Lesnar ending the Streak gave him the biggest push of all time, and he has not been beaten since then. Having Taker be the one to finally beat Lesnar and get his win back is a completely pointless setback to Lesnar. Undertaker is 60 years old and looks like dog shit. Lesnar should beat him decisively.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Undertaker gains nothing from winning, and he should not win. Lesnar ending the Streak gave him the biggest push of all time, and he has not been beaten since then. Having Taker be the one to finally beat Lesnar and get his win back is a completely pointless setback to Lesnar. Undertaker is 60 years old and looks like dog shit. Lesnar should beat him decisively.

I agree, Undertaker is right at his last few throw downs. They are entering risky territory here , Lesnar could kill the old man by mistake, right on T.V. When Lesnar took The Streak away, Taker was somehow even worse than he is today...when he lost The Streak he looked like a very frail old woman dressed like The Undertaker. Today, at least he looks like a bingo hall old woman dressed like The Undertaker.

 

[Navi]

I totally agree with you wwe is losing ratings and fanbase as many fans are adverting to UFC since CM Punk announced he signed with UFC now there are rumors Lesner is heading to UFC soon enough. I keep saying the same thing Mark calloway is no phenom he has no mystical powers he begged Lesner at a UFC event to bury him and beat him to end his streak prior to WM30 and it was done the torch was passed the streak is broken and that s it

Please show us how CM Punk going to UFC is losing the WWE ratings, and how the fans are flocking over there. If any wrestling fans tune into see Punk's first match, it will be out of curiosity only, and in the hopes he gets the crap beat out of him.

Lesnar has signed a multi year deal with the WWE, and stated on ESPN he has no plans of returning to UFC. So where are you getting your information from.

On topic, this match does nothing for either one. Taker shouldn't win, that will undo what Lesnar did. Lesnar shouldn't win, as it will make Taker's return a waste. The only winners will be the WWE who will make a fortune off merchandise sales.

Unless this is some sort of a lead up to Taker/Sting at Mania, which I'm not looking forward to either.

 

[Prince Vee]

To be honest, this is one sort of feud in which you shouldn't scrutinize who's going to benefit from this feud. This feud got the intensity. A very well built-up storyline. And moreover when Brock Lesnar yells, "I'm gonna kill you" for which The Undertaker responds with "You're gonna have to" that doesn't seem to be Kayfabe. It seemed more real. That's the reason why this feud seems to be more interesting.

Anyhow to answer to the OP's question, The one who's going to benefit from this feud is the WWE Universe. Lets sit back and enjoy this rather than judging it.

Cheers!!

 

[sMark]

Undertaker gains nothing from winning, and he should not win. Lesnar ending the Streak gave him the biggest push of all time, and he has not been beaten since then. Having Taker be the one to finally beat Lesnar and get his win back is a completely pointless setback to Lesnar. Undertaker is 60 years old and looks like dog shit. Lesnar should beat him decisively.

This. Undertaker acts like a desparate old man who can't admit, he is done.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Undertaker gains nothing from winning, and he should not win. Lesnar ending the Streak gave him the biggest push of all time, and he has not been beaten since then. Having Taker be the one to finally beat Lesnar and get his win back is a completely pointless setback to Lesnar. Undertaker is 60 years old and looks like dog shit. Lesnar should beat him decisively.

And this is why WWE is in the terrible position it's in. No respect for veteran talents. Brock Lesnar's "legacy" is non-existent and unimportant. Restoring even a small amount of Undertaker's legacy is more important than more stroking of Lesnar's planet-sized ego.

 

[Aquaman6686]

You are dumb as fuck.

The fact that you think Brock Lesnar's ego is more important than Undertaker's legacy proves how little you know and/or care about the wrestling industry.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I don't think a loss in this match would harm either man, Their both such big names and had so many wins over both of their careers one loss won't do a thing

 

[Aquaman6686]

I don't think a loss in this match would harm either man, Their both such big names and had so many wins over both of their careers one loss won't do a thing

The end of The Streak already devalued Undertaker like no loss has ever hurt any other professional wrestler. Ending The Streak ended Undertaker's mystique and permanently damaged his legacy. Only a clean submission victory over Brock Lesnar at a WrestleMania can repair some of that damage, which is why the match taking place at SummerSlam makes it irrelevant.

 

[Sundar]

I think one thing we are forgetting is the fact that when Brock broke the streak and started his title run, he had about 1 year left in his contract and many were under the impression that he would quit and resume his MMA career. Therefore, they may have decided to give him one last monster run and use it to build the next big babyface. However, since we now know that Brock will be around for three more years (which is a long time in pro-wrestling) and also because Roman isn't quite ready yet, they may have decided to put this plan on hold because there's plenty of time to rebuild Brock in three years and still have him pass the torch.

Also, WWE creative does not seem to think as much in the long term as the IWC does. To them it's all about keeping network subscriptions up and Taker vs Lesnar is always a big match that generates hypes and subscriptions. Everything else is secondary.

 

[Sundar]

The end of The Streak already devalued Undertaker like no loss has ever hurt any other professional wrestler. Ending The Streak ended Undertaker's mystique and permanently damaged his legacy. Only a clean submission victory over Brock Lesnar at a WrestleMania can repair some of that damage, which is why the match taking place at SummerSlam makes it irrelevant.

If having his streak broken by Lesnar devalued Taker's career, then Taker beating his previous opponents at Wrestlemania to build his streak devalued their careers as well. It made them look so weak.

 

[FlairFan2003]

You beat me to making this thread Sally,

All signs point to Undertaker getting his win back. Which helps no one involved and likely leads to an even more unwanted rematch at Wrestlemania in Dallas. Yeah this match is a huge draw there is no disputing that, but if Undertaker wins, everything Brock has been built up to be over the last year and a half will be all for nothing. Ending the most coveted streak in the history of pro wrestling and being buit up as THE boss in WWE to defeat...only for the guy he beat in the first place to knock him off his throne.

It makes no sense and makes the last 15 months or so of Brock being unbeatable and no selling everything completely worthless if he is just going to up and lose to Undertaker. No one thinks any different of Undertaker. There is no shame in losing to Brock freaking Lesnar kayfabe or not. I always thought it was interesting that Brock was the one who "got away" so to speak for Taker and would have let it stay that way. In this day and age everyone beats everyone in wrestling sooner or later.

If Brock wins all is fine and dandy, but it doesn't do anything for him either. I mean beating the same guy who he sent to the hospital after their last match doesn't make Brock anymore terrifying than he already is. If Brock winning is the plan then I am game even though this match never needed to happen. Makes Undertaker look like a sore loser more than anything else. If Undertaker wins, I just am not sure what the point of the streak ending in the first place was.

Here's the thing....what exactly has Brock built up since he came back ?

He came acting like a spoiled brat and proclaiming himself an unbeatable bad A#$ but immediately lost to Cena....definitely got him over as a heel but hardly a scary unbeatable beast.

Then he barely survives three (admittedly excellent) matches against a semi retired HHH, clearly playing the villain, including a barely survived win at S-Slam and clean loss (albeit another close, competitive and entertaining match) at Mania - He is more established as a jerk heel but again hardly a frightening beast

Beating Taker at Mania was impressive....the win itself wasn't particularly dominant but ending "The Streak" carried some weight. Parlaying that into his only truly dominating "beast like" performance at S-Slam against Cena (winning the World Title) was impressive but it was the 1st time in two years he actually was booked to look like an unbeatable bad A$# and not just a jerk heel.

Then in his rematch Cena dominates him and he barely escapes with the belt, lucky he wasn't beaten outright - After that he barely survives a Triple Threat Match with Cena & Rollins, a more balanced match but not even close to dominant. At Mania he looks dominant in a short match until he is up ended, outsmarted, and loses to Rollins.

That loss might have earned him some sympathy from fans but over all for two years Lesnar has "ACTED" on the mic like a beast but mostly in the ring he's been more like a HHH or Flair-like villain, skilled but cowardly heel who needs luck and cheating to barely survive by a thread against virtually every threat, basically what Rollins is right now.

Lesnar, who flirted with a face turn after losing to Rollins, can easily go back to being a heel against Taker because so little has changed in his presentation between Mania & now. Likewise, Lesnar has consistently been billed as a tough but very beatable opponent, which doesn't change if Taker beats him as long as they let the match be competitive. Then Lesnar can take some time off, come back and beat a mid carder, and start a main event feud later on in time for the next Mania. Absolutely nothing changes for him, especially given his limited part time schedule, he can remain as the obnoxious heel who isn't nearly as tough as he acts and sell tickets to fans who want to see him get his butt kicked.

Taker is likely on his last major run, and if so WWE will certainly give him a nice exit and run to retirement like they did Flair & HBK, which would make fans happy and sell tickets in the meantime, a win over Lesnar at S-Slam would go a long way towards to kickstarting that. Also, Taker has never been a character to take a personal slight lightly and Lesnar not just beating him but basically humiliating him again & again over the loss is just the kind of thing his character would not be able to walk away from.

 

[Messiah]

Neither guy gains anything from winning. They can't make Lesnar look badder than he does and Undertaker only competes once or twice a year. He'll always be the Undertaker. They made this match because they want to make SummerSlam the biggest SummerSlam of all time, that's why they made it 4 hour's as well, and possibly why John Cena is competing for the WWE Title..

 

[Kidpolean]

Nobody will win this match! Come on guys ,as wrestling fans, you should know this will have a DQ finish. My guess is Sting attacks Taker and turns heel. Either way, this match is simply going to set up either Taker or Brock's Mania match.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Personally I question how many extra subscribers Taker/Lesnar 2 can get the WWE Network but it's the only logical reason why this match exists. Chances are WWE creative was trying to think of a big Summerslam main event and this was the biggest one they could come up with and on that front they definitely succeeded in their goal as Taker vs. Lesnar is the biggest match WWE could run at this point in time outside of Taker vs. Cena. Personally, I would've liked Taker/Cena and Rollins/Lesnar but I digress.

Although it's a big match to me it does show the big issues WWE has creatively all in 1 match. Relying on older/part-time talent, lack of storytelling logic and not thinking long term are easily the biggest issues with this match taking place but then again since WWE can only think 1 event ahead these days it's pretty much how things are going to be for the foreseeable future which sucks but if it accomplishes their business goals then good on them.

I'm fine with relying on part-timers and old stars if needed but it's hard to ignore the other 2 points. When it comes to the finish 1 of 2 things are going to be accomplished: Either Brock wins again, Brock and Taker pretty much stay in the same spots they are currently in or (which is the more likely scenario) Taker gets his back, in turn the breaking of the streak is now worthless and Lesnar's dominant aura he carries around pretty much disappears.

As of right now WWE has 2 real money guys; John Cena and Brock Lesnar. Cena is the kind of character that can lose tomorrow and not lose any value, Lesnar is not in that boat and a loss can really hurt the value he brings to WWE which is quite a lot. Most of Taker's value pretty much went out the window at Wrestlemania 30 and beating Lesnar won't change that so it makes no sense for Taker to go over here. Lesnar winning doesn't do nothing for anyone but it doesn't hurt anyone either and since the match is already made you might as well go the route that has pretty much no chance of causing damage.

When Lesnar finally does get pinned, let it be to a guy who can gain something from it, don't let it be to a guy who will just hurt everything by doing it.