Bret Hart could NEVER be called an all-time great, due to lackluster mic skills.

[Wald]

Excellent way of summarising the issue. Bret had that calm sit down and talk thing going. Look at the promos talking about being reluctant to fight Owen before Mania 10...

Definitely. Look at this promo before WM12 for an example. Bret puts over HBK as a great wrestler, as just as big a threat as the likes of Undertaker and Diesel, the title match, how Shawn is at a disadvantage as challenger and also puts himself over as champion. By saying he will prove he is the best ever he also sets up HBK as champion coming out of the event as HBK would have just beaten the best ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBUKgjJ1OxY

 

[peter_midnight]

Raven though...I am a huge Raven mark and many wont consider him an all time great but I do. Why? The guy has great mic skills. The guy has great ring presence - dont believe me? Then view many of his WCW matches. Raven himself has said he was so high back then that he cannot remember the matches. Sure many of them were Raven's rules but he knew his way around the ring and could hold the match. He is amazing on booking and has a great mind for the business. But sadly his drug related problems have kept him down - especially in WWE. But Raven is most definitely an all time great in my mind.

Raven had a presence that just made him stand out in WCW and ECW. In WWF/E, it just didn't work and it's a shame. Raven was hands down one of the most unique guys ever and I feel his WCW version could've taken off before he went Farris Bueller on everyone.

Also, Chris Benoit didn't get as high as he could have , and his World Title reign is looked at as a failure, because he was poor on the mike, yet was every bit as great in the ring as Bret.

So, stick work seems to be why people get behind someone, when it suits you. But someone like Bret got over because of the lack of other incredible workers in the ring at the time, having Canada behind him, and being part of the Hart family. This got him ahead of other poor speakers, because of his connections. Also, he was one of the few guys Austin put over.

Also, I don't know what criteria Bret uses when he disregards Triple H. Triple H is better on the mike, was as good at one stage as Bret, and sold more main event tickets than Hart, who was champion during the poorest rating years of Raw. Yet he bags him. Far be it for me to suggest that Montreal 97 had NOTHING to do with Bret's assessment of Triple H.

I think Benoit's reign wasn't as good because the lack of history in WWE at the time. Benoit in WCW was revered because the WCW fans knew how hard he had to work and how he never got his just due. In WWE he was pushed relatively fast, all things considered. It's not like he ever feuded with Hogan in WCW, but Benoit was in feuds w/the Rock and Austin pretty quickly.

BTW, HHH sucks on the mic. He's boring, repetitive and is the most inconsistent gimmick I've ever seen at the main event level, First, he's an arrogant blue blood that slowly lost his accent (I'll accept that one). He then becomes a comedy guy with some arrogance. Then, he becomes this bad ass (1999/2000). Suddenly, he goes back to being arrogant again while basically being a cheap version of Ric Flair, but he decides to keep the bad ass entrance. Seriously, WTF is he? It makes no sense whatsoever. One minute, he's a bad ass, but then he's this arrogant, pompous guy that we're supposed to believe becomes a bad ass for some reason?

HHH was never even close to being on Bret's level in the ring, ever. I've seen Bret Hart do a crucifix among other things that guys his size shouldn't be able to do. Not to mention, Bret is the only guy that can make many moves like the back breaker look believable. When HHH makes Diesel, the Undertaker, and Sid Vicious look like a million bucks, come talk to me about being great.

As for selling more tickets, really? When did HHH sell more than 82,000 tickets in a main event as the IC champion nonetheless? Go ahead, I'll wait. When it comes to drawing power, no one in the clique ranks among the top. Even Hall & Nash while being over in the nWo, can't say they were the sole reason thanks to Hogan being involved.

Beyond mic skills, there is something called charisma. They are not mutually exclusive, and they are not the same thing. Bret Hart had a look and swagger that made people pay attention to him, regardless of him saying anything on the microphone.


As for Triple H... I'm sure Montreal has a lot to do with his opinion of Haitch. I doubt he can judge him objectively due to some deep seeded resentment. Triple H is a better talker and he was around during a bigger era, though he takes too much credit for that. But one thing he's right about is that Triple H has never been as good in the ring as Bret.

Bret Hart from the beginning always had a cool factor about him. Everything bout him from the way he looked to the way he moved was crisp and fresh. Everything the guy did looked deliberate and well done.