What makes you say Foley, Michaels, or Taker carried Hunter? Triple H has had several great matches with several different people. He was carried every time? I find that hard to believe. Just because he was in the ring with a great opponent doesn't mean that opponent carried him. If Hunter always had to be carried he wouldn't be consistently good regardless of how talented his opposition was.
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Bret Hart calls out Triple H, says HHH vs Taker at Mania 28 was mediocre....
- Thread starter Mr Mikey Mike
- Start date
What makes you say Foley, Michaels, or Taker carried Hunter? Triple H has had several great matches with several different people. He was carried every time? I find that hard to believe. Just because he was in the ring with a great opponent doesn't mean that opponent carried him. If Hunter always had to be carried he wouldn't be consistently good regardless of how talented his opposition was.
Sorry but everything Bret Hart said is 100% wrrooongg
My God
All of Hunter's matches vs Foley were nothing short of 5 star
All his Matches with HBK were nothing short of 5 star.
Both triple Threats vs Benoit were 5 star
His HIAC MY God was one amazing story being told in the ring. Forget the action , yea wasn't that great, but the story telling was ART.
Something people don't take into consideration, he's one of the greatest heels to step foot in the ring. This is no joke. Yes he held people back , but the WHC was as it's prime when Trips held it.
Look at Shawn Micheals response when he returned back in 2002. It wasn't that great. Welcome Triple H, watch the Survivor Series when he won the WHC and tell me what response he got. Yes , it was due to Triple H making HBK that good of a face. He made Benoit relevent, he made Batista relevent , he made Orton relevent.
To be honest , in terms of contributing to the business. Triple H is just there under Hogan , Rock and Austin by a 1 or 2 steps, but he's above the rest by atleast 3-4.
I'm no fan of Trips , but I really really really hate when people bash the guy , when honestly the guy knows more than you what you actually want.
My God
All of Hunter's matches vs Foley were nothing short of 5 star
All his Matches with HBK were nothing short of 5 star.
Both triple Threats vs Benoit were 5 star
His HIAC MY God was one amazing story being told in the ring. Forget the action , yea wasn't that great, but the story telling was ART.
Something people don't take into consideration, he's one of the greatest heels to step foot in the ring. This is no joke. Yes he held people back , but the WHC was as it's prime when Trips held it.
Look at Shawn Micheals response when he returned back in 2002. It wasn't that great. Welcome Triple H, watch the Survivor Series when he won the WHC and tell me what response he got. Yes , it was due to Triple H making HBK that good of a face. He made Benoit relevent, he made Batista relevent , he made Orton relevent.
To be honest , in terms of contributing to the business. Triple H is just there under Hogan , Rock and Austin by a 1 or 2 steps, but he's above the rest by atleast 3-4.
I'm no fan of Trips , but I really really really hate when people bash the guy , when honestly the guy knows more than you what you actually want.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
The whole thing with Taker sitting up and being practically immune to damage was tied into the urn. They covered that story immensely during his feud with the Million Dollar Corporation, Yokozuna, and even Mankind. He's pretty much been a regular worker with a high threshold for pain since the Mankind feud. And it makes sense that the older he gets the less pain he can take. Again, it's all about suspending the disbelief and getting into the characters. The story of the streak is obviously one of the biggest attractions when it comes to Mania so why would they tarnish it by having Undertaker just thrash his opponents... The whole thing that makes it exciting is believing that someone will FINALLY beat him.
You come off as sounding like one of those marks who got angry with Triple H for "holding people back", which is debatable. Most of the people he supposedly held back were most likely never going to make it anyway or they would have achieved it in spite of him, or anyone else. The fact of the matter is Triple H has done a lot for the business, and continues to do so considering this in flux of bright stars that keep showing up in the WWE these days.
You can say a lot about Triple H but he was already at the top before he married into the McMahon family... DX opened the door for Triple H, and he refused to let that door close.
Triple H helped bring Randy Orton and Batista to the Main Event scene first through the Evolution stable and then through feuding with both of them. He opened the door for those two like Michaels opened the door for him; but he gets no credit for that.
He also helped make Benoit look like a credible champion in spite of having no microphone skills. Triple H tapped for him on the biggest stage, in one of the biggest matches of that era. There's countless other selfless things that Trips has done along the way, but he's only remembered for the "holding people back"... Kind of makes you wonder why Steve Austin doesn't take criticism like this considering he made a hell of a lot more money than Triple H and made a hell of a lot less stars than Trips has
You're right though, Triple H probably won't be remembered in the same light as Bret or Shawn, because he's going to transcend them as eventually owning the company along with Stephanie. That's the ultimate win in the end. Case closed.
Ok all that about the urn and the undertaker is irelavent... It was not a great match end of story.. And as far as triple h transcending anything is a laugh... Only thing transcending about triple h is his ego when the rock proved that he was 100x better at life then he was...
I could care less about triple h booking himself in main events because wrestling hasnt had the same punch after 2001.
And so wat for putting Orton and Batista over.. They both were terrible and no threat to his self proclaimed king or kings title. He even put over Cena he is worse.. But what about king booker who in my opinion was that last good talent wwe had with the title. He books him in a squash match because not only is booker t a better wrestler, better entertainer, he was also the last threat to his position.
What makes you say Foley, Michaels, or Taker carried Hunter? Triple H has had several great matches with several different people. He was carried every time? I find that hard to believe. Just because he was in the ring with a great opponent doesn't mean that opponent carried him. If Hunter always had to be carried he wouldn't be consistently good regardless of how talented his opposition was.
HHH vs. Taker, WM27: The whole story of the match was Taker selling his vulnerability and the last Hell's Gate sold the whole match. Plus, it really wasn't the classic people make it out to be: the rest of the card just really sucked.
HHH vs. HBK, Armageddon 2002: HBK fell through 3 tables, the only reason we remember that series so.
HHH vs. Cactus Jack, Hell in a Cell: Foley's selling can carry anyone. Look at all the bumps he took. To be honest I wouldn't even remember this match if HHH didn't bring it up every RAW of his Evolution days.
HHH vs. HBK vs. Chris Benoit: The best thing HHH did in that match was tap out. This, I would say, is the only classic match he had (barring EC's, Rumble's, etc.), and he served no purpose other than dropping the title. The match would have went on just as good if it was Benoit vs. HBK.
HHH vs. The Rock, Ladder Match, Summerslam: Once again, HHH played placeholder here. Rock's rise was so meteoric at this point that the whole feud benefited HHH more than Rock. Plus, everyone and their mother got involved in this match, so the wrestling itself, although great, wasn't the highlight: it was the interference and the danger of Rock winning.
HHH vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008: Remembered solely because of Jeff and his first win, and also kind of messed up on HHH's part: after all the matches they had for the title and all the times Hardy lost throughout the year, they had to bring Edge in to take the pin.
I could go over many more, but it's true: HHH never really had a classic, and all of his great matches only stand because he either managed to hang with a great competitor or was just a placeholder. He's a legend because of longevity. And he hasn't really been consistently good: he's had some really shitty main event matches. Need I bring up the SS match against Kozlov again?
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
Sorry but everything Bret Hart said is 100% wrrooongg
My God
All of Hunter's matches vs Foley were nothing short of 5 star
All his Matches with HBK were nothing short of 5 star.
Both triple Threats vs Benoit were 5 star
His HIAC MY God was one amazing story being told in the ring. Forget the action , yea wasn't that great, but the story telling was ART.
Something people don't take into consideration, he's one of the greatest heels to step foot in the ring. This is no joke. Yes he held people back , but the WHC was as it's prime when Trips held it.
Look at Shawn Micheals response when he returned back in 2002. It wasn't that great. Welcome Triple H, watch the Survivor Series when he won the WHC and tell me what response he got. Yes , it was due to Triple H making HBK that good of a face. He made Benoit relevent, he made Batista relevent , he made Orton relevent.
To be honest , in terms of contributing to the business. Triple H is just there under Hogan , Rock and Austin by a 1 or 2 steps, but he's above the rest by atleast 3-4.
I'm no fan of Trips , but I really really really hate when people bash the guy , when honestly the guy knows more than you what you actually want.
Don't think u said anything accurate except for that he held people back... And please don't say hogan and triple h in the same sentence... It's a disgrace to wrestling..
The man is like HBK said. " Mid card 4 life"
HHH vs. Taker, WM27: The whole story of the match was Taker selling his vulnerability and the last Hell's Gate sold the whole match. Plus, it really wasn't the classic people make it out to be: the rest of the card just really sucked.
I wasn't crazy about the WM27 match either. Their matches at WM17 and WM28 were both very good or great.
HHH vs. HBK, Armageddon 2002: HBK fell through 3 tables, the only reason we remember that series so.
What about SummerSlam 2002? What about the final Raw of 2003?
HHH vs. Cactus Jack, Hell in a Cell: Foley's selling can carry anyone. Look at all the bumps he took. To be honest I wouldn't even remember this match if HHH didn't bring it up every RAW of his Evolution days.
Royal Rumble 2000? I guess that was all Cactus too, right? Probably would have been just as good if it were Cactus against the Blue Meanie.
HHH vs. HBK vs. Chris Benoit: The best thing HHH did in that match was tap out. This, I would say, is the only classic match he had (barring EC's, Rumble's, etc.), and he served no purpose other than dropping the title. The match would have went on just as good if it was Benoit vs. HBK.
Yeah, Triple H served no purpose. He was only the hated champion that was dominating Raw for two years. Believe it or not a lot of people think it was Shawn Michaels that served no purpose. People wanted Benoit vs. Hunter one on one.
HHH vs. The Rock, Ladder Match, Summerslam: Once again, HHH played placeholder here. Rock's rise was so meteoric at this point that the whole feud benefited HHH more than Rock. Plus, everyone and their mother got involved in this match, so the wrestling itself, although great, wasn't the highlight: it was the interference and the danger of Rock winning.
Yeah, HHH played placeholder by winning the match. This rivalry made both guys superstars. Sure Rock reached the main event first. That's because he was heel and they needed to start getting Austin's mania opponent ready. Triple H was as over as anyone not named Austin in 1998 and he wasn't even that far from the Rattlesnake.
HHH vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008: Remembered solely because of Jeff and his first win, and also kind of messed up on HHH's part: after all the matches they had for the title and all the times Hardy lost throughout the year, they had to bring Edge in to take the pin.
Well Edge was the champion and was about to enter into an angle with Hardy that was supposed to involve Christian's comeback.
I could go over many more, but it's true: HHH never really had a classic, and all of his great matches only stand because he either managed to hang with a great competitor or was just a placeholder. He's a legend because of longevity. And he hasn't really been consistently good: he's had some really shitty main event matches. Need I bring up the SS match against Kozlov again?
The word classic is subjective. I feel he's had some classic matches. You don't think so. Whatever floats your boat. I find it hard to believe that you can honestly say that after 17 years, most in the main event, Triple H has never had a great match because of his own talents. Sounds to me like you just don't like the guy and don't want to give him any credit, but that's nothing new here.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
I wasn't crazy about the WM27 match either. Their matches at WM17 and WM28 were both very good or great.
What about SummerSlam 2002? What about the final Raw of 2003?
Royal Rumble 2000? I guess that was all Cactus too, right? Probably would have been just as good if it were Cactus against the Blue Meanie.
Yeah, Triple H served no purpose. He was only the hated champion that was dominating Raw for two years. Believe it or not a lot of people think it was Shawn Michaels that served no purpose. People wanted Benoit vs. Hunter one on one.
Yeah, HHH played placeholder by winning the match. This rivalry made both guys superstars. Sure Rock reached the main event first. That's because he was heel and they needed to start getting Austin's mania opponent ready. Triple H was as over as anyone not named Austin in 1998 and he wasn't even that far from the Rattlesnake.
Well Edge was the champion and was about to enter into an angle with Hardy that was supposed to involve Christian's comeback.
The word classic is subjective. I feel he's had some classic matches. You don't think so. Whatever floats your boat. I find it hard to believe that you can honestly say that after 17 years, most in the main event, Triple H has never had a great match because of his own talents. Sounds to me like you just don't like the guy and don't want to give him any credit, but that's nothing new here.
Triple h more over then The rock during Summerslam 98
That's madness
He wasn't even more over then the new age outlaws and they were apart of DX..
If triple h was so over why did they even have to turn the rock face just to turn him back heel to fight austin.. The Rock was actually just as hot as Austin during that time which is why they had to take him out of the nation DX feud that was only aiding Triple H.. Who did hhh go on to feud with after that shamrock, Val venis, or the godfather.. Sound like a familiar place for him..
Mid Card for life
Triple h more over then The rock during Summerslam 98
That's madness
He wasn't even more over then the new age outlaws and they were apart of DX..
If triple h was so over why did they even have to turn the rock face just to turn him back heel to fight austin.. The Rock was actually just as hot as Austin during that time which is why they had to take him out of the nation DX feud that was only aiding Triple H.. Who did hhh go on to feud with after that shamrock, Val venis, or the godfather.. Sound like a familiar place for him..
Mid Card for life
Come on man, now you're just sounding foolish. You're making it sound like Triple H wasn't over at all in 1998 which is downright laughable. Rock turned from face to heel so quickly because it was 1998 so everything had to be a swerve. Triple H did lose some momentum after SummerSlam 98 but that was because he was injured during the match. He had to forfeit the title and missed a few months. Let's not let the facts get in the way of the Triple H hatred though.
Sorry but everything Bret Hart said is 100% wrrooongg
My God
All of Hunter's matches vs Foley were nothing short of 5 star
Really? Then name one other than the Hell in a Cell without the Internet. Damn near impossible.
All his Matches with HBK were nothing short of 5 star.
The Summerslam one was good, but not 5 stars. The Armageddon match, good as it was, is only remembered for the table spot, not 5 star quality
Both triple Threats vs Benoit were 5 star
The WM triple threat I could call 5 star, but that really has nothing to do with HHH, who once again played placeholder. His only purpose in the match was to lose the title, and tapping out was the only relevant thing he did that whole match (although the "don't tap out" spots from him and Shawn were kinda funny). The other triple threat, not so much. There's a reason we only treasure one.
His HIAC MY God was one amazing story being told in the ring. Forget the action , yea wasn't that great, but the story telling was ART.
I'm assuming you're talking about WM 28, and I'm with you on this one. One thing I have never taken from HHH is his in ring psychology, and this proved it.
Something people don't take into consideration, he's one of the greatest heels to step foot in the ring. This is no joke. Yes he held people back , but the WHC was as it's prime when Trips held it.
Triple H wasn't a good heel by his own merit. His whole heel run could have been done by whoever they booked to do it. The only reason he's remembered as such a good heel is because of how long he hogged the WHC, which somehow translated into him deserving it and not pushing his weight around for it. The WHC scene was boring as shit while he was holding it hostage. Every feud became boring and repetitive with Evolution helping him retain it if he didn't go over clean. It only got excited whenever he lost it, and the cycle repeated whenever he won it back the next PPV. There were countless people he should have lost to regarding the WHC, prime examples being Booker T, Kane and Orton.
And I can name heels better than HHH easily. Just off the top of my head: Roddy Piper, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Y2J, Edge, Randy Orton, Muhammad Hassan, Hulk Hogan, Ted Dibiase Sr., Mark Henry, and that's already a handful of names.
Look at Shawn Micheals response when he returned back in 2002. It wasn't that great. Welcome Triple H, watch the Survivor Series when he won the WHC and tell me what response he got. Yes , it was due to Triple H making HBK that good of a face.
If you truly believe that then you must have selective memory.
He made Benoit relevent
Nope. Benoit was relevant way before the WM match. Otherwise he wouldn't have got it and won it.
He made Batista relevent
I could concede that one, although I've always argued that Batista has been relevant since going toe-to-toe with Goldberg.
He made Orton relevent.
Bullshit. He buried Orton as soon as he broke away from Evolution, and went over him in every subsequent feud. Taker, Foley and Edge made Orton relevant.
To be honest , in terms of contributing to the business. Triple H is just there under Hogan , Rock and Austin by a 1 or 2 steps, but he's above the rest by atleast 3-4.
The Rock made one of the worst RAW's in recent history draw 5 million viewers after a season long slump. Austin changed the game with the "wrestler vs. boss" feud. Hogan sold merchandise like a motherfucker. HHH can't draw like the Rock, hasn't revolutionized anything like Austin, and has never been the top seller like Hogan. HHH hasn't made near the contribution these guys have made. If anything, he's been detrimental by holding back so many potential household names. What would today be like if he had allowed Booker to win at WM19? Or if Orton hadn't immediately lost the WHC to him? Or if he hadn't put Jeff through hell for the whole of 2008 and just dropped it circa Summerslam/Survivor Series? Or if he had allowed Kane to be the one to win the unification match? That's 4 names, all legends/future legends in their own right who could have been bigger than they are now, but aren't because of Trips.
I'm no fan of Trips , but I really really really hate when people bash the guy , when honestly the guy knows more than you what you actually want.
"When honestly the guy knows more than you what you actually want." I'm not even gonna act like I know what you were trying to say.
I think that the word "classic" is being thrown around a bit much. I have stated that I don't care for HHH and probably never will. I do feel that the wrestling landscape is littered with the corpses of aborted pushes thanks to him and Stephanie. I have no doubt he used his position with the Kliq and then with Stephanie to do that. I would probably do the same thing.
That being said he is still a legend in the business. Nearly 20 years. Ring acumen does not always dictate who will be considered a top guy. Hogan for example. Undertaker has declined the past decade but is still considered a legend. Kevin Nash has very little ring skill but he still had a huge impact on the business.
The Rock was perhaps above average in the ring as was post-injury Austin. But they also told a story in the ring and had enormous charisma. HHH is no HBK or Bret Hart or Ric Flair in the ring but he was there when the WWF became the biggest wrestling company on the planet. He was on top pretty much from late 99 through 04 and beyond.
It took some time for the crowd to respond, and perhaps WWE should get behind guys like this today and do this for him too, they finally just let him do his thing. I don't think of him as having five star matches but he has had plenty of four star matches.
Also, it takes two to tango in wrestling. Sure, he fought many superior opponents but at the same time he rose to the occasion as all good wrestlers do. Sure you get the clusterfucks, even Bret and Shawn couldn't carry Sid too far. There is the Steiner match and I was not a fan of his some of his matches with Orton. But neither are that great in the ring and Steiner was far past his prime at that time. HHH probably could have done more to carry some of his matches but in many he did just fine. He was a workhorse. I may be mediocre in the bedroom but if I have a hot woman bouncing up and down on me like a pogo stick, I am going to step my game up. And if I come to a premature end I can pretend that it never happened, and keep going for as long as I can....
HHH may not even be close to being the best but he also had some really good matches and he also had a huge impact on the business. Honestly, he might be one of the few strong heels that the WWF/E has had in the last twenty years. I can only think of a couple myself.
That being said he is still a legend in the business. Nearly 20 years. Ring acumen does not always dictate who will be considered a top guy. Hogan for example. Undertaker has declined the past decade but is still considered a legend. Kevin Nash has very little ring skill but he still had a huge impact on the business.
The Rock was perhaps above average in the ring as was post-injury Austin. But they also told a story in the ring and had enormous charisma. HHH is no HBK or Bret Hart or Ric Flair in the ring but he was there when the WWF became the biggest wrestling company on the planet. He was on top pretty much from late 99 through 04 and beyond.
It took some time for the crowd to respond, and perhaps WWE should get behind guys like this today and do this for him too, they finally just let him do his thing. I don't think of him as having five star matches but he has had plenty of four star matches.
Also, it takes two to tango in wrestling. Sure, he fought many superior opponents but at the same time he rose to the occasion as all good wrestlers do. Sure you get the clusterfucks, even Bret and Shawn couldn't carry Sid too far. There is the Steiner match and I was not a fan of his some of his matches with Orton. But neither are that great in the ring and Steiner was far past his prime at that time. HHH probably could have done more to carry some of his matches but in many he did just fine. He was a workhorse. I may be mediocre in the bedroom but if I have a hot woman bouncing up and down on me like a pogo stick, I am going to step my game up. And if I come to a premature end I can pretend that it never happened, and keep going for as long as I can....
HHH may not even be close to being the best but he also had some really good matches and he also had a huge impact on the business. Honestly, he might be one of the few strong heels that the WWF/E has had in the last twenty years. I can only think of a couple myself.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
Come on man, now you're just sounding foolish. You're making it sound like Triple H wasn't over at all in 1998 which is downright laughable. Rock turned from face to heel so quickly because it was 1998 so everything had to be a swerve. Triple H did lose some momentum after SummerSlam 98 but that was because he was injured during the match. He had to forfeit the title and missed a few months. Let's not let the facts get in the way of the Triple H hatred though.
I never said triple h wasn't over he certainly was but not like the rock.. And the outlaws... Yes triple h had the knee injury that kept him out the deadly games tournament but really. Without the the rock who was triple h during that time. Cause certainly the rock was something in his absence. Triple h couldn't stand the fact that he was about to get a steady diet of goldust and Marc mero while the rock was gonna start locking up with undertaker mankind and Austin.
For the record I never hated HHH... I just know a little about his career relates to the wrestling world..
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
I think that the word "classic" is being thrown around a bit much. I have stated that I don't care for HHH and probably never will. I do feel that the wrestling landscape is littered with the corpses of aborted pushes thanks to him and Stephanie. I have no doubt he used his position with the Kliq and then with Stephanie to do that. I would probably do the same thing.
That being said he is still a legend in the business. Nearly 20 years. Ring acumen does not always dictate who will be considered a top guy. Hogan for example. Undertaker has declined the past decade but is still considered a legend. Kevin Nash has very little ring skill but he still had a huge impact on the business.
The Rock was perhaps above average in the ring as was post-injury Austin. But they also told a story in the ring and had enormous charisma. HHH is no HBK or Bret Hart or Ric Flair in the ring but he was there when the WWF became the biggest wrestling company on the planet. He was on top pretty much from late 99 through 04 and beyond.
It took some time for the crowd to respond, and perhaps WWE should get behind guys like this today and do this for him too, they finally just let him do his thing. I don't think of him as having five star matches but he has had plenty of four star matches.
Also, it takes two to tango in wrestling. Sure, he fought many superior opponents but at the same time he rose to the occasion as all good wrestlers do. Sure you get the clusterfucks, even Bret and Shawn couldn't carry Sid too far. There is the Steiner match and I was not a fan of his some of his matches with Orton. But neither are that great in the ring and Steiner was far past his prime at that time. HHH probably could have done more to carry some of his matches but in many he did just fine. He was a workhorse. I may be mediocre in the bedroom but if I have a hot woman bouncing up and down on me like a pogo stick, I am going to step my game up. And if I come to a premature end I can pretend that it never happened, and keep going for as long as I can....
HHH may not even be close to being the best but he also had some really good matches and he also had a huge impact on the business. Honestly, he might be one of the few strong heels that the WWF/E has had in the last twenty years. I can only think of a couple myself.
I agree but it was more like 2000 threw 2004.. And during that time Austin took long break, undertaker got hurt, and the rock started making movies.. The magic was gone, but nevertheless hi was on top with big show, a young Kurt angel and Jericho.. Congrats for him
I do agree with those who say that Booker should have won. I also think that Orton's push was overshadowed also Goldberg should have won at SS back in 03.
We are talking about HHH v. Rock at SummerSlam: Here was my review from about two years ago. It was a pretty good match and I recall the crowd being fairly hot too. Sorry about any grammar issues as I write on the fly. Take too long to edit.
Match 7: HHH v. Rock (c) for WWF IC Title
A ladder match. Rock comes out and poses on the ladder as Chyna glares with evil intentions. I am sure she will cost him the match.
They finally lock up and HHH runs him down with a flying forearm. He pounds the Rock and though he reverses the whip he eats a knee to the head. Rock comes back and pounds on him in the corner. HHH is backdropped out of the ring. Chyna checks up on him as the Rock heads to the ladder, albeit slowly and HHH comes over and puts a stop to his Sunday stroll and whips him into the steel barrier a couple of times. Rock is rolled back into the ring. HHH walks right into a right hand and Rock fires off a few shots until HHH drops him with a high knee. HHH heads over to the ladder but gets hit from behind and he goes down as does the ladder. Now HHH gets flung into the steel too. Rock sets up the ladder and HHH hits him from behind but is flung into the ladder and then clotheslined off the rebound. Rock is inside the ring as is the ladder. I guess HHH was trying to get it into the ring but it did not seem that way. Rock has it set up and takes a month to climb it. I mean who climbs a ladder that slowly....oh, you have to wait for your opponent to hurry his ass up. HHH leaps into the Rock and all three, the ladder being the third all topple. HHH has the ladder and runs it into the Rock. HHH is bent forward too and recovers and slowly climbs up the ladder but the Rock pulls him off via his bad leg. Rock works over the leg and knee. He drops elbows onto it. He sets up HHH and kicks the back of the knee. He places the leg inside the ladder and stomps on it over and over....well twice. He has a chair now, tosses it into the ring and blasts the ladder where the leg is trapped. HHH gets his leg wrapped around the post and now dueling Rocky chants start! The ladder is wedged from the barrier to the steps and Rock drops HHH's knee on top of it. He slides the ladder back into the ring. He is slowly going up and HHH struggles to get there. Fuck the Rock is moving slower than my Grandma did when she was alive. HHH, a year later, gets to the ladder and pushes it down with the Rock on it. Lawler declares there is no way HHH will be able to climb the ladder with a gimpy knee meaning he is going to win. Rock is tossed to the floor and HHH sets up the ladder against the barrier but he is catapulted into it! HHH is crawling up the aisle and Rock stalks him with the ladder over his head but HHH kicks him. Rock is flung into the steel barrier and clotheslined. HHH sets him up for the Pedigree onto the ladder but he does the crotch chop first and the delay is costly as Rock backdrops him onto the ladder. Rock slides the ladder into the ring and Mark Henry throws another one in. Rock sets it up and slowly climbs it as Chyna tries to rouse her man. Jesus this is slow developing. Henry tries to hold back HHH but Chyna decks him. Rock still patiently waits for HHH and he finally shoves the ladder over. HHH slides the ladder into the Rock's face, baseball slides it into his skull and the Rock is busted open. HHH has the ladder set up and he is gimping up it. He is getting closer but Rock shoves the ladder down and HHH crashes down. Rock punches him in the head a couple of times. He lays the ladder across the corner and HHH tries to reverse the whip but the Rock holds on and DDT's him! Rock is up and slowly climbs up the ladder, now I understand the slow movement and HHH is right there too as he tries to climb the other side. They are near the top slugging it out. HHH is shoved off but leapt first and he lands on the other ladder placed in the corner and then bounces into the ladder the Rock is on and he falls onto the ropes. Chyna gives HHH a chair. Rock is trying to set up the ladder but decides to hoist it over his head and go after HHH and is met with a chair shot to the ladder. He falls with the ladder on top of him and HHH hits the ladder a few times with the chair. Rock gets back to his feet, and bodyslams him on top of the downed ladder the fans fucking erupt of the People's Elbow and he connects! Rock has the ladder up but HHH shoves him and he goes up, shakes off the Rock but is finally grabbed and Rock Bottomed! The fans are loving this. I love how they are still into it over twenty plus minutes later!! Rock is slowly climbing up the ladder again and HHH crawls towards him and has his ankle but is kicked away. HHH pulls him down by the trunks and Rock runs at him only to be kicked and Pedigreed! HHH can barely see and the Rock is right there and they slug it out and the Rock takes the lead and of course Chyna gets involved and nuts him and down goes the Rock. HHH has the belt and the Rock is up but it is too late.
**** Great ladder match for two big men but I need to downgrade it a bit due to the telegraphed ladder climbing. Sure they are new at it and it did not hurt the match too much. But Chyna should not have assisted. Just give HHH the clean win. Yes it keeps the Rock strong and perpetuates the feud but that is why Rock should have won last month, cleanly, and HHH the face win cleanly this month. Bad booking. But a hell of a match.
We are talking about HHH v. Rock at SummerSlam: Here was my review from about two years ago. It was a pretty good match and I recall the crowd being fairly hot too. Sorry about any grammar issues as I write on the fly. Take too long to edit.
Match 7: HHH v. Rock (c) for WWF IC Title
A ladder match. Rock comes out and poses on the ladder as Chyna glares with evil intentions. I am sure she will cost him the match.
They finally lock up and HHH runs him down with a flying forearm. He pounds the Rock and though he reverses the whip he eats a knee to the head. Rock comes back and pounds on him in the corner. HHH is backdropped out of the ring. Chyna checks up on him as the Rock heads to the ladder, albeit slowly and HHH comes over and puts a stop to his Sunday stroll and whips him into the steel barrier a couple of times. Rock is rolled back into the ring. HHH walks right into a right hand and Rock fires off a few shots until HHH drops him with a high knee. HHH heads over to the ladder but gets hit from behind and he goes down as does the ladder. Now HHH gets flung into the steel too. Rock sets up the ladder and HHH hits him from behind but is flung into the ladder and then clotheslined off the rebound. Rock is inside the ring as is the ladder. I guess HHH was trying to get it into the ring but it did not seem that way. Rock has it set up and takes a month to climb it. I mean who climbs a ladder that slowly....oh, you have to wait for your opponent to hurry his ass up. HHH leaps into the Rock and all three, the ladder being the third all topple. HHH has the ladder and runs it into the Rock. HHH is bent forward too and recovers and slowly climbs up the ladder but the Rock pulls him off via his bad leg. Rock works over the leg and knee. He drops elbows onto it. He sets up HHH and kicks the back of the knee. He places the leg inside the ladder and stomps on it over and over....well twice. He has a chair now, tosses it into the ring and blasts the ladder where the leg is trapped. HHH gets his leg wrapped around the post and now dueling Rocky chants start! The ladder is wedged from the barrier to the steps and Rock drops HHH's knee on top of it. He slides the ladder back into the ring. He is slowly going up and HHH struggles to get there. Fuck the Rock is moving slower than my Grandma did when she was alive. HHH, a year later, gets to the ladder and pushes it down with the Rock on it. Lawler declares there is no way HHH will be able to climb the ladder with a gimpy knee meaning he is going to win. Rock is tossed to the floor and HHH sets up the ladder against the barrier but he is catapulted into it! HHH is crawling up the aisle and Rock stalks him with the ladder over his head but HHH kicks him. Rock is flung into the steel barrier and clotheslined. HHH sets him up for the Pedigree onto the ladder but he does the crotch chop first and the delay is costly as Rock backdrops him onto the ladder. Rock slides the ladder into the ring and Mark Henry throws another one in. Rock sets it up and slowly climbs it as Chyna tries to rouse her man. Jesus this is slow developing. Henry tries to hold back HHH but Chyna decks him. Rock still patiently waits for HHH and he finally shoves the ladder over. HHH slides the ladder into the Rock's face, baseball slides it into his skull and the Rock is busted open. HHH has the ladder set up and he is gimping up it. He is getting closer but Rock shoves the ladder down and HHH crashes down. Rock punches him in the head a couple of times. He lays the ladder across the corner and HHH tries to reverse the whip but the Rock holds on and DDT's him! Rock is up and slowly climbs up the ladder, now I understand the slow movement and HHH is right there too as he tries to climb the other side. They are near the top slugging it out. HHH is shoved off but leapt first and he lands on the other ladder placed in the corner and then bounces into the ladder the Rock is on and he falls onto the ropes. Chyna gives HHH a chair. Rock is trying to set up the ladder but decides to hoist it over his head and go after HHH and is met with a chair shot to the ladder. He falls with the ladder on top of him and HHH hits the ladder a few times with the chair. Rock gets back to his feet, and bodyslams him on top of the downed ladder the fans fucking erupt of the People's Elbow and he connects! Rock has the ladder up but HHH shoves him and he goes up, shakes off the Rock but is finally grabbed and Rock Bottomed! The fans are loving this. I love how they are still into it over twenty plus minutes later!! Rock is slowly climbing up the ladder again and HHH crawls towards him and has his ankle but is kicked away. HHH pulls him down by the trunks and Rock runs at him only to be kicked and Pedigreed! HHH can barely see and the Rock is right there and they slug it out and the Rock takes the lead and of course Chyna gets involved and nuts him and down goes the Rock. HHH has the belt and the Rock is up but it is too late.
**** Great ladder match for two big men but I need to downgrade it a bit due to the telegraphed ladder climbing. Sure they are new at it and it did not hurt the match too much. But Chyna should not have assisted. Just give HHH the clean win. Yes it keeps the Rock strong and perpetuates the feud but that is why Rock should have won last month, cleanly, and HHH the face win cleanly this month. Bad booking. But a hell of a match.
I never said triple h wasn't over he certainly was but not like the rock.. And the outlaws... Yes triple h had the knee injury that kept him out the deadly games tournament but really. Without the the rock who was triple h during that time. Cause certainly the rock was something in his absence. Triple h couldn't stand the fact that he was about to get a steady diet of goldust and Marc mero while the rock was gonna start locking up with undertaker mankind and Austin.
For the record I never hated HHH... I just know a little about his career relates to the wrestling world..
The Rock and Triple H helped make each other. You say you know about Triple H's career but I think you're either making things up or not remembering them properly. Your previous post said HHH was feuding with Shamrock, Venis, and Godfather while Rock was moving to the main event. Never happened. Here you say he was feuding with Mero and Goldust. Those feuds took place in 1996 and 1997. Triple H worked with Kane at WM15. It was a far cry from the main event but there were rumors about HBK returning to the ring in 1999 and working with HHH at mania. When that fell through the WWF scrambled a bit. Maybe you didn't notice but WM15 was the most poorly booked clusterfuck mania of all. HHH turned heel at mania and after some expected feuds with his former friends he was champion within a few months.
Come on man, now you're just sounding foolish. You're making it sound like Triple H wasn't over at all in 1998 which is downright laughable. Rock turned from face to heel so quickly because it was 1998 so everything had to be a swerve. Triple H did lose some momentum after SummerSlam 98 but that was because he was injured during the match. He had to forfeit the title and missed a few months. Let's not let the facts get in the way of the Triple H hatred though.
HHH was over in a sense, yes. If he was given that much exposure and didn't get somewhat over, he wouldn't be here. But to put him on par with Austin and Rock is what's really downright laughable. Rock may have been in the same stage of career as him at the time, but he was obviously blowing him out of the water, hence the way they ended up today. To be honest, when I watched RAW in 1998, it always felt like Trips was getting the Cesaro style push, where it's like, "Yeah, he can do a couple things, but they're trying a bit too hard to make me care about him."
Ahspicydrop: I didn`t know that about the urn. I stopped watching WWE in 1995 around the time Mick Foley showed up and only started watching again in 97. Urn or no urn, he`s still the Undertaker. He should be a little more dominant than a broken down old man. He`s only 5 years older than Triple H yet the way he writhes around the ring you`d think there was a 20 year age difference.
I know it`s all about `suspending belief`but it`s hard to suspend my belief enough to think that Triple H could ever be that legitimate a threat to Taker`s streak. Taker had to bend over backwards to make Triple H look super dominant. It was almost like he was ordered to oversell Triple H. Forcing a rivalry that wasn`t all that awe inspiring in a third WM match. Lately, the streak has become more about elevating the legacies of DX members than it has been about celebrating the Undertaker. Taker`s got one or two more mania matches left in him and the window is rapidly closing for Taker Streak dream matches with potential foes like Punk, Lesnar, Ryback, the entire Shield, Sting or whoever. The back to back series with Shawn made sense but the back to back with Triple H was unnecessary. We saw that relatively generic match already in 2001. The last two manias could have been used to build up somebody else other than the almighty immortal Triple H. Trips is wiggling his way into yet another WM main event match he has no business being involved in with Lesnar. There is so little time to get these WM dream matches done and we`ve all seen enough of Triple H and Brock Lesnar by Summerslam. WWE is paying Lesnar a truckload of cash to simply show up on RAW and most of this cash has been used to simply elevate Triple H. Think about it, WWE brings in Lesnar for a limited amount of dates and then has him work almost exclusively with Triple H the entire time. What a waste! Triple H has done enough in his career over the past 10 years to water down the WWE product. Bringing a former, real life UFC champ back into the fold was a big deal and it`s all been wasted on propping up the legacy of god damn Triple H. Seriously, Triple H was propped up to Hogan or Warrior like status by decimating Taker in their back to back series. But that`s not enough. Now Triple H, the one guy who stayed loyal to WWE, returns to battle a former WWE champ who quit on them and became a real life success story and ultimate fighting champion without having his career hijacked by Jean Paul Lesvesque. End result: On the greatest wrestling stage of them all, an overrated fake wrestler walks all over a former real life fighting machine. It`s not that I can`t suspend my belief this time, I simply just don`t want to. It`s time for Triple H and Steph to take a permanent vacation and let the talent find a way on their own to reach their full potential.
I know I sound like an angry mark but I`m really not much of a wrestling fan anymore. JP Lesvesque I used to hate when I used to care. Triple H the character just bores me. When he comes on TV, I change the channel unless Punk or Heyman`s involved. Lots of people hold others back. That`s life. I guess the thing that makes me angry if anything does is the folks on these links who can`t admit his career achievements are a direct result of blatant cronyism. To say any differently is to stick your head in the sand. I`m a bit indifferent to Triple H when I`m watching RAW. I like when he`s around because he`d be a good secondary character to any story but I don`t really like that he thinks he should be the center of attention and the WWE production team therefore always makes him the primary focus or else feel the wrath of Stephanie. Remember a few weeks after CM Punk`s pipebomb. Triple H and Kevin Nash watered the whole storyline down. It had all the potential in the world too but they flubbed it because it became all about Triple H squashing CM Punk before he went on his 14 month reign. Just so we could all remember that Punk was incredible and better than anyone in 20 years. But was pinned pretty easily just before his run by invincible Hulk 2.0.
I know it`s all about `suspending belief`but it`s hard to suspend my belief enough to think that Triple H could ever be that legitimate a threat to Taker`s streak. Taker had to bend over backwards to make Triple H look super dominant. It was almost like he was ordered to oversell Triple H. Forcing a rivalry that wasn`t all that awe inspiring in a third WM match. Lately, the streak has become more about elevating the legacies of DX members than it has been about celebrating the Undertaker. Taker`s got one or two more mania matches left in him and the window is rapidly closing for Taker Streak dream matches with potential foes like Punk, Lesnar, Ryback, the entire Shield, Sting or whoever. The back to back series with Shawn made sense but the back to back with Triple H was unnecessary. We saw that relatively generic match already in 2001. The last two manias could have been used to build up somebody else other than the almighty immortal Triple H. Trips is wiggling his way into yet another WM main event match he has no business being involved in with Lesnar. There is so little time to get these WM dream matches done and we`ve all seen enough of Triple H and Brock Lesnar by Summerslam. WWE is paying Lesnar a truckload of cash to simply show up on RAW and most of this cash has been used to simply elevate Triple H. Think about it, WWE brings in Lesnar for a limited amount of dates and then has him work almost exclusively with Triple H the entire time. What a waste! Triple H has done enough in his career over the past 10 years to water down the WWE product. Bringing a former, real life UFC champ back into the fold was a big deal and it`s all been wasted on propping up the legacy of god damn Triple H. Seriously, Triple H was propped up to Hogan or Warrior like status by decimating Taker in their back to back series. But that`s not enough. Now Triple H, the one guy who stayed loyal to WWE, returns to battle a former WWE champ who quit on them and became a real life success story and ultimate fighting champion without having his career hijacked by Jean Paul Lesvesque. End result: On the greatest wrestling stage of them all, an overrated fake wrestler walks all over a former real life fighting machine. It`s not that I can`t suspend my belief this time, I simply just don`t want to. It`s time for Triple H and Steph to take a permanent vacation and let the talent find a way on their own to reach their full potential.
I know I sound like an angry mark but I`m really not much of a wrestling fan anymore. JP Lesvesque I used to hate when I used to care. Triple H the character just bores me. When he comes on TV, I change the channel unless Punk or Heyman`s involved. Lots of people hold others back. That`s life. I guess the thing that makes me angry if anything does is the folks on these links who can`t admit his career achievements are a direct result of blatant cronyism. To say any differently is to stick your head in the sand. I`m a bit indifferent to Triple H when I`m watching RAW. I like when he`s around because he`d be a good secondary character to any story but I don`t really like that he thinks he should be the center of attention and the WWE production team therefore always makes him the primary focus or else feel the wrath of Stephanie. Remember a few weeks after CM Punk`s pipebomb. Triple H and Kevin Nash watered the whole storyline down. It had all the potential in the world too but they flubbed it because it became all about Triple H squashing CM Punk before he went on his 14 month reign. Just so we could all remember that Punk was incredible and better than anyone in 20 years. But was pinned pretty easily just before his run by invincible Hulk 2.0.
HHH was over in a sense, yes. If he was given that much exposure and didn't get somewhat over, he wouldn't be here. But to put him on par with Austin and Rock is what's really downright laughable. Rock may have been in the same stage of career as him at the time, but he was obviously blowing him out of the water, hence the way they ended up today. To be honest, when I watched RAW in 1998, it always felt like Trips was getting the Cesaro style push, where it's like, "Yeah, he can do a couple things, but they're trying a bit too hard to make me care about him."
1998 was 15 years ago so I don't blame you for not remembering very well. Triple H was way over in 1998. Of course Rock was over too. He was over big but not as big as everyone seems to think. Rock became over the top over in 1999. Triple H became heel in 1999 and was champion during the end of the year. The WWF did their best business when The Rock was the top face working with Triple H as the top heel.
Keep in mind the initial statement I had replied to. It wasn't about Triple H being over in 1998. It wasn't comparing Triple H to the Rock or anyone else. The statement was Triple H NEVER had a great match. While that is a matter of opinion I just don't see how anyone could think that is possibly true.
i'm a cm punk girl
Pre-Show Stalwart
i mean is hhh great?! sure i believe so maybe he was made to an extent being with stephanie but the guy can go and has always been enjoyable over the years.
do i think bret's jealous of hhh?? no i believe he does think hhh is an inferior wrestler but it's brets opinion to have.
do i think bret's jealous of hhh?? no i believe he does think hhh is an inferior wrestler but it's brets opinion to have.
1998 was 15 years ago so I don't blame you for not remembering very well. Triple H was way over in 1998. Of course Rock was over too. He was over big but not as big as everyone seems to think. Rock became over the top over in 1999. Triple H became heel in 1999 and was champion during the end of the year. The WWF did their best business when The Rock was the top face working with Triple H as the top heel.
Keep in mind the initial statement I had replied to. It wasn't about Triple H being over in 1998. It wasn't comparing Triple H to the Rock or anyone else. The statement was Triple H NEVER had a great match. While that is a matter of opinion I just don't see how anyone could think that is possibly true.
No. Rock was massively over before 1999. It was painfully obvious when they cheered him, still a heel, over Foley and Shamrock in that triple threat steel cage, which was before 1999 if I remember correctly. And if you wanna push it further, the farthest you can say it was is around the Deadly Games tournament, which was still before 1999. HHH hit his peaks in 1999 (barring the 2002 return, only Attitude Era-wise) when he had the title.
If by best business you mean from a commercial standpoint, then I can't argue with that, I don't know the figures. But if you mean critically/ product-wise, you can't put Rock/HHH over Rock/Austin, just not possible. Opinions are opinions, but that is an extremely out there one. Of course, this is assuming you are talking about quality, not economics.
And I agree with you on that last statement that he has had great matches. My issue is that every superstar of, around or above HHH's magnitude has had a classic match, and he hasn't. Like I said before, the most I'd give him is the WM triple threat, and WWE won't even recognize that anymore. I think the real argument is if HE can MAKE/CARRY a good match, which is what isn't true. He can hang on in a good contest, but he's never really MADE a match, and like I said before, every superstar of, around or above HHH's magnitude has done that before.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
The Rock and Triple H helped make each other. You say you know about Triple H's career but I think you're either making things up or not remembering them properly. Your previous post said HHH was feuding with Shamrock, Venis, and Godfather while Rock was moving to the main event. Never happened. Here you say he was feuding with Mero and Goldust. Those feuds took place in 1996 and 1997. Triple H worked with Kane at WM15. It was a far cry from the main event but there were rumors about HBK returning to the ring in 1999 and working with HHH at mania. When that fell through the WWF scrambled a bit. Maybe you didn't notice but WM15 was the most poorly booked clusterfuck mania of all. HHH turned heel at mania and after some expected feuds with his former friends he was champion within a few months.
I was just joking and naming as many mid cards from the time period as I could.. The rock became a star not only with triple h but also with ken shamrock during 98.. The feud between rock and triple h was more about the feud of the Nation vs DX.. The rock was twice the star of triple h during that ladder match and even u have to admit that.. The match can go down with any other mid card besides triple h, but u can't say the same about the rock.. Again triple h was over but not close to the rock.. By the time triple h won the title it was just a brethe of fresh air because everyone else in the main event picture had the tile.. Shortly after triple h won the title everyone else had other things on their plate which was also why the wwf felt more comfortable with him as champ because he had nothing else going on but wrestling kind of like now.
No. Rock was massively over before 1999. It was painfully obvious when they cheered him, still a heel, over Foley and Shamrock in that triple threat steel cage, which was before 1999 if I remember correctly. And if you wanna push it further, the farthest you can say it was is around the Deadly Games tournament, which was still before 1999. HHH hit his peaks in 1999 (barring the 2002 return, only Attitude Era-wise) when he had the title.
No doubt Rock was over in 1998. I just think he and Triple H were on the same level. Of course Rock would eventually surpass Triple H. Rock was way more over than Triple H in 1999 but I think you're underestimating him in 1998 while possibly overestimating Rock a bit. When you overstimate one and underestimate the other you create a gap that's much further apart than it should be.
If by best business you mean from a commercial standpoint, then I can't argue with that, I don't know the figures. But if you mean critically/ product-wise, you can't put Rock/HHH over Rock/Austin, just not possible. Opinions are opinions, but that is an extremely out there one. Of course, this is assuming you are talking about quality, not economics.
I was talking about economics but I don't usually like to go there so I'll withdraw that part of my argument. I did however find 2000 to be a FAR more entertaining year than 1999 and Triple H was on the top of his game in 2000.
And I agree with you on that last statement that he has had great matches. My issue is that every superstar of, around or above HHH's magnitude has had a classic match, and he hasn't. Like I said before, the most I'd give him is the WM triple threat, and WWE won't even recognize that anymore. I think the real argument is if HE can MAKE/CARRY a good match, which is what isn't true. He can hang on in a good contest, but he's never really MADE a match, and like I said before, every superstar of, around or above HHH's magnitude has done that before.
There's a difference between a great match and a classic match. I'm glad to see you say he's had great matches. If none of his matches never lived up to your definition of a classic so be it. To each his own. I'm not going to say Triple H has had a ton of classic matches but I think he's had some. I personally think the SummerSlam 2002 match was a classic but that's just my opinion.
I was just joking and naming as many mid cards from the time period as I could.. The rock became a star not only with triple h but also with ken shamrock during 98.. The feud between rock and triple h was more about the feud of the Nation vs DX.. The rock was twice the star of triple h during that ladder match and even u have to admit that.. The match can go down with any other mid card besides triple h, but u can't say the same about the rock.. Again triple h was over but not close to the rock.. By the time triple h won the title it was just a brethe of fresh air because everyone else in the main event picture had the tile.. Shortly after triple h won the title everyone else had other things on their plate which was also why the wwf felt more comfortable with him as champ because he had nothing else going on but wrestling kind of like now.
I think you have selective memory. I absolutey do not have to admit that Rock was twice the star Triple H was at SummerSlam 98. That's not true at all. You think that match would have been just as big if it was X Pac instead of Triple H? Not a chance. Regardless of who was more over, the match at SummerSlam 98 was a great one and it's just one of many examples that disproves the original statement to which I replied. I think I've said my peace for tonight. I'll see where this discussion goes tomorrow.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
Ok he's either had good matches not great matches or great matches and not classic ones.. Bottom line the rock has classic vs Austin Hogan
Undertaker does vs the Hitman Michaela
Austin vs Bret
Hogan vs Andre
Savage steamboat...
Then u have to put the breaks on and say hhh vs HBK... That match isn't like any of the others I mentioned.. So great or classic whatever you want to call it. He doesn't have it.
Undertaker does vs the Hitman Michaela
Austin vs Bret
Hogan vs Andre
Savage steamboat...
Then u have to put the breaks on and say hhh vs HBK... That match isn't like any of the others I mentioned.. So great or classic whatever you want to call it. He doesn't have it.
BlackOut10
Dark Match Winner
I think you have selective memory. I absolutey do not have to admit that Rock was twice the star Triple H was at SummerSlam 98. That's not true at all. You think that match would have been just as big if it was X Pac instead of Triple H? Not a chance. Regardless of who was more over, the match at SummerSlam 98 was a great one and it's just one of many examples that disproves the original statement to which I replied. I think I've said my peace for tonight. I'll see where this discussion goes tomorrow.
I was just thinking that.. Xpac could have made a great substitute but sense we are dealing with mid carders like triple h is I would stick wit shamrock, or even billy gun if he wasn't in the tag title match that night.. It would have been the exact same match if not better..
You must be a DX fan or something really cuz there is no way they were in the same ball park when it came to being over. Your right the rock was not 2x more over then triple h it was more like 10x, and that is why he got the green light for the wwf champion almost a year before triple h.. 2000 was watered down attitude era.. By that time i was more enterested in and up and coming Kurt angle and not a dried out hunter Helmsley
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