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Bret doesn't draw anymore so why bother?

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The first night Hart appeared on Raw the show received a 3.3 rating. This could have been attributed to the fact that the show was going head to head with the TNA debut of Hulk Hogan and therefore Raw was affected. So they tried it again last night. With the full support of the followup show after the Royal Rumble and Edge's return on Raw. The Hitman drew a 3.6 the same rating they drew the last two weeks with Dule Hill from Psych and god only knows who the week before that. So what im saying is does Vince really think Bret can still draw or is this part of some sick control thing to humiliate Hart on television? What do you think?
 
When I first heard Hart was comming back I thought it was great, I thought of all the diffrent scenarios, and then when he actually made he apperance I thought man this was about 7 yrs too late. I DVR all my shows and i'll be honest I watch the hart michales segmant and the vince hart segment of the jan 4 show and since then I have had no intrest and has fast foward through any mention of hart and vince, and this past monday i fast fowered it again till Batista came out and played then fast foward it to the end. Bret is too rusty and old and what Vince said was true he has no personality and he was carried by the other superstars like HBK and Steve Austin. He was a great worker and the best Technical wrestler, but as we see now that was it. I have no interest in the hart segments, and would flip over to TNA if I was watching them both live.

Just My Thoughts.
 
I personally find the Bret/Vince segments entertaining. I only know about their history from what I have researched online after hearing about the deal. But still, I think it is cool to see Bret come back after so long and them do this angle. Im excited to see how it plays out. But on topic, I think the reason why the ratings arent going up is because some people who watched it when he was on, no longer follow it. I wouldnt be surprised if some dont even know he has come back twice. Its what happens when you turn your product into a kid show compared to then...I still like it though!
And your question about the sick control thing, I dont think thats it. I saw a report that Bret has wanted to come back for a time now and even saw something that he would be interested in signing a longer contract if WWE had a good use for him after WM26. Dont know if thats true tho
 
At first i was excited to hear Bret Hart was coming back because he is such a great legend. Not to mention the history between he, Michaels and Vince. Unfortunately, they are blowing it if you ask me. It would be great to see Bret pissing off Vince somehow week after week until finally Vince gives into the match at Wrestlemania. Right now Bret has been kicked and spit on when he has been on Raw.

Unless something is going to change soon Bret Hart is not going to matter when he comes on tv. I have to agree and wonder what is the point of bringing him back, but will hope this gets better soon otherwise this is one of the worst ideas the WWE have had in awhile.
 
Sorry but your wrong. After bret appeared on raw ratings went up and peaked at 3.7/3.6 and the idea that they hyped bret coming back on monday isnt exactly true. They said vince would invite bret back to raw on monday so unless you were visiting a site like wrestlezone you wouldnt have known that bret was actually going to appear on raw. Now given the fact that bret was on raw this monday if ratings dont increase next week well then your theory would hold water but at this point its a little early to just dismiss this storyline. Beyond all that you say why bother? Because someone thought that fans would enjoy seeing bret come back and see him in the ring one last time at wrestlemania thats why. If you arent enjoying it so far well then I fell bad for you Ive enjoyed it so far I cant wait to see vince in the sharpshooter Im glad they're makin us wait for it. And finally Maybe the wwe doesnt draw anymore maybe a high 3 is the best they can do at this point.
 
Here, I'll make it really simple: Because we, as wrestling fans, want it to happen. We want to see Bret Hart again, and we want to see what he will do. The same people bitching about "Well, what now?" are the assholes that were pissed that Bret was "gone" before.
 
Why bother? Because its better than seeing half the crap that WWE has been showing in years. For a fan that grew up on everything old school wrestling and a fan that was devastated when Bret left, this is just an amazing thing. I couldnt care less if RAW got a 1.0 rating...anyone who values that over a great personality like Bret needs to re think what they are watching wrestling for. Brets comeback has been a breath of fresh air and i think only so many past Bret fans can really appreciate it, and a handful of ones that didnt get to see him in his prime but respect his legacy.
 
Being a long time Bret Hart fan growing up as a kid, in hearing his guest return to RAW on the 4th I was pretty excited. Watching the January 4th show left me wondering a few things. Bret and HBK's hug closed the book on what could be a good spitting match between the two (because we all know Bret doesn't have anything left in the kettle after his stroke), which could have ended up in Bret proving HBK wrong and maybe some mutual agreement happening on-screen, which would've given all the people who wanted to see Bret vs. HBK again, and also make the people happy that wanted to see closure. Instead they catered to only one grouping of fans. Kind of left me "Huh", but that's WWE for ya, tunnel vision syndrome.

Now, the whole Vince McMahon feud, people have debated that if Bret would've got his chops back in the first night it would've brought greater excitement to his second appearance; which ended up just like the first, getting embarrassed and of all things spit in his face (Throwback to Montreal). It's obvious that what they are doing is a big face type turnover for Bret where he finally gets his revenge back on Mcmahon and gets that Wrestlemania match booked, this can work and all. But, although they are running the classic "face beat-down + Face Revenge = Big Story + Higher Ratings", they have, unfortunately, weakened the Hart character, in my eyes, and probably a few others out there as well. I really don't know what Batista had to do with Bret Hart and Vince Mcmahon, but I really feel this segment went passed the point of building a story and starting knifing into what was left of Bret's character and "legacy" so to speak.

Anyone else feel this way?
 
I think that WWE got Bret Hart back because it was and is a good idea. I don't know what they expected to get for ratings out of it, but who cares? They are finally working toward getting the fans an ending to the Montreal Screwjob. As for how they are going about setting it up, I didn't mind Vince kicking Bret Hart, but to end the show the way they did on Monday was crap. They should have a storyline where Vince bans Bret from WWE but then the WWE Board of Directors allows him back and he gets the 'Mania match against Vince which in turn makes Vince furious. In this process they can even have stables form if they wanted to and have Vince's people (more-less a corporation type thing) against Hart's guys. That idea could help the ratings get a boost.
 
To be fair, why should I care?? These numbers are for Vince and his team, not for the fans. The Bret-Vince storyline is on and won`t be canceled, the show won`t be canceled. I`m fan and I tuned back to Raw to see Bret back and I`m loving this. Whether it draws 3.0 or more; it is not something for the fans to care about. Say I watch an action TV show, I care about the numbers cause it might be canceled but Raw? no.

And this is not a sick way for Vince to humiliate Bret Hart, he is not the freaking devil for god sake. He is sure paying a lot for Bret`s services and I`m pretty sure Bret will come out winner of the feud.

Bret Hart return=gold. There is no way they would turn that down. It goes way beyond ratings.
 
Exactly. Bret obviously is taking part of this, and im sure he will come out on top in the end and we may all be surprised as to what he can maybe still do, we will just have to see.

To me its the first thing that caught my eye and is what has pulled me back to raw each week with serious excitement.
 
whether or not bret draws in the numbers, he still will draw in a crowd. guarantee come wrestlemania, all the story telling and montreal reminders will all add up and bret hart will put on a show. im intrested to see what batista has to do with all this. keep me guessing vince....keep me guessing....
 
Ok I have waited 12 years to get this off my chest so here we go. I hate bret hart. there I said it. Truth be told i never met the guy and dont hate him on a personal level but i always thought he was very overrated and the only time he was interesting was the shock value of him winning the tittle and matches with owen, austin, and hbk. His matches with taker, vader, deisel and just about everyone esle except mr. perfect were hard to watch. So he decides to go work for the competition and when he leaves he tells vince mcmahon he is not going to drop the tittle to HBK because he doesnt respect him. I'm sorry bret but who the hell do you think you are telling the guy who decided to put you over that he cant decide who to put his tittle on when your leaving to go to his biggest competitor. Last time i checked shawn puts on tremendous matches and oh he has a personallity to boot. You go to the competition with just as much interest in you as there is in mcmahon and what happens, oh thats right vince ends up kicking wcw to the pavement and how was your run in wcw,oh thats right no one remembers anything except goldberg kicking you in the head. You can try to blame wcw for the failure there just like you blame everyone else for failures in your whole career but your contract had something called creative control which pretty much means you can choose to do whatever you want and in your idea of being creative you joined the nwo just like every other lazy wrestler at the time trying to get cheap heat instead of having the oppertunity to become the biggest face of all time by "doing what you do best" and wrestling. McMahon is right in calling you pathetic and i know thats all written for tv but that what u are bret pathetic. I remember when they made your dvd and asked you to do a run in at wrestlemania in hbk's match and u refused because you didnt want to tarnish your legacy. That great and all Bret because im sure your legacy wont be tarnished by having mcmahon put you down for 5 minutes with one kick and coming back a couple weeeks later and having him spit in your face. And we all know you'll win at wm but the only reason that match will be any where close to memorable is because vince will be willing to take a huge bump for you. You've always said you love your fans but what have you done to prove it. And Bret i know you've had it rough with owen , the stroke , and the survivor series stuff but my man we've all had it rough all you had to do was what your boss told you to do just like the rest of us do every freaking day we go to work. I apologize if i offend anybody with this post and i also appologize for the length
 
The first night Hart appeared on Raw the show received a 3.3 rating. This could have been attributed to the fact that the show was going head to head with the TNA debut of Hulk Hogan and therefore Raw was affected. So they tried it again last night. With the full support of the followup show after the Royal Rumble and Edge's return on Raw. The Hitman drew a 3.6 the same rating they drew the last two weeks with Dule Hill from Psych and god only knows who the week before that. So what im saying is does Vince really think Bret can still draw or is this part of some sick control thing to humiliate Hart on television? What do you think?

Actually the first time was a 3.6 too. A 3.6 is an average Raw, the best drawn Raw of recent times is a 4. something and that was with Donald Trump. Which would you rather have on Raw? Exactly. Really who cares about ratings, we're fans, we enjoy or not enjoy a product. It's like saying "Man the seventh season of 24 went down in ratings from season 6, it's because Tony Almeida doesn't draw like he used to!" That's obviously the case, it's wrestling as a whole that has seen a decline in numbers since the days of 8.0. I'm sure if you stuck the Rock and Austin on there it wouldn't be a big jump either.
 
At first i was excited to hear Bret Hart was coming back because he is such a great legend. Not to mention the history between he, Michaels and Vince. Unfortunately, they are blowing it if you ask me. It would be great to see Bret pissing off Vince somehow week after week until finally Vince gives into the match at Wrestlemania. Right now Bret has been kicked and spit on when he has been on Raw.

Unless something is going to change soon Bret Hart is not going to matter when he comes on tv. I have to agree and wonder what is the point of bringing him back, but will hope this gets better soon otherwise this is one of the worst ideas the WWE have had in awhile.

Did anybody realize that Brett might need the money. The way they are treating him is pathetic. To spit in his face cause he did it to you. Now Brett takes it because he needs the money. Other than that I don't think anybody will take that humiliation.
 
I personally like Bret Hart. I have been waiting for a Bret Hart return for awhile. This one is however letting me down. It is now I realize Bret Hart was more of a great in ring performer than a promo cutting legend like The Rock. He had a stroke and that has killed his in ring performance and now we are left with Bret the average promo guy. I still like to see Bret and will scream when he locks Vince in the sharpshooter at Mania, but I am not as interested as I thought I would be. The 1st appearence for me was stolen by TNA and the NWO reunion. Seeing guys who changed wrestling and the greatest stable of all time in my view was better than seeing one lone legend who didnt have much to offer. Vince vs Bret wasnt what I hoped for a Hart return that wasnt a big fued in my mind. It was just a business deal gone wrong. Hbk//Hart would have brought down the house providing Bret was able to go, but thanks Goldberg Hart will never be the best there is....like he said on TMZ he is just the best there was
 
What everyone seems to be missing here is the fact that Bret being back proves that Bret was not wrong that day in Montreal. Deep down, Vince knows he was wrong to do what he did to Bret and that is why Bret is on WWE tv in 2010. If Vince for one second did not have regrets about that day, there is no way in hell he'd have Hart back on tv, let alone use him in an ongoing storyline leading to Mania. He also would not have inducted him into the HOF either.

We all know the bad blood between Savage and Warrior and McMahon and you don't see those guys being put over in any way on WWE tv. Apparently the mere mention of Savage's name sends Vince into a fit. Savages dvd has two clowns (Maria and Striker) hosting it for no logical reason whatsoever, and Warriors dvd was a complete burial. Neither man is in the HOF, Savage doesn't even have a WWE Classics action figure and the line has been available for six years. Tank Abbott has one for fuck sake!!

Vince is obviously not backing down on his personal feelings towards those two men and that is why they've not been given their due. Say what you want but both those guys drew huge money for WWF and were major stars. Tony Atlas is in the HOF and they are not?

For Vince to orchestrate the whole Bret returns storyline and have him bury the hatchet with HBK says alot about the respect Vince must still have for Bret. I seriously doubt that Vince thought for one second in this day, that Bret's return would give him ratings in the high four's or fives, those days are over. There is no one single performer who can command that type of reaction in today's wrestling and television market share...not Hogan, not Austin, no one.

If they could, Vince would be doing it with them by now.

Vince knows that Bret was the only guy that lasted through thick and thin with him for 14 years un-interrupted, rose to be the number one star in the company and never jumped to the competition like Savage,Hogan,Piper, Nash, Hall, and Warrior all did. He only left after he was told to by Vince.

The fans want to see Bret back and he deserves to go out on a high note after all his contributions to WWF and Vince is well aware of this. He calls the shots and if he didn't feel it was the right thing to do, we would not be seeing it period.
 
It seems that ever since Bret Hart has returned someone starts crying about something again. Some like myself love the fact that he's back but others always find something to bitch about. Bret is much older now with past health issues we all know that but a lot of older wrestling fans that watched Bret while growing up apprciate Bret and enjoy watching him again, better than not having him around and after 12 years I can't complain. Maybe Bret doesn't draw anymore but to those that watched him we will continue to watch and support him.
 
Ok I have waited 12 years to get this off my chest so here we go. I hate bret hart. there I said it. Truth be told i never met the guy and dont hate him on a personal level but i always thought he was very overrated and the only time he was interesting was the shock value of him winning the tittle and matches with owen, austin, and hbk. His matches with taker, vader, deisel and just about everyone esle except mr. perfect were hard to watch. So he decides to go work for the competition and when he leaves he tells vince mcmahon he is not going to drop the tittle to HBK because he doesnt respect him. I'm sorry bret but who the hell do you think you are telling the guy who decided to put you over that he cant decide who to put his tittle on when your leaving to go to his biggest competitor. Last time i checked shawn puts on tremendous matches and oh he has a personallity to boot. You go to the competition with just as much interest in you as there is in mcmahon and what happens, oh thats right vince ends up kicking wcw to the pavement and how was your run in wcw,oh thats right no one remembers anything except goldberg kicking you in the head. You can try to blame wcw for the failure there just like you blame everyone else for failures in your whole career but your contract had something called creative control which pretty much means you can choose to do whatever you want and in your idea of being creative you joined the nwo just like every other lazy wrestler at the time trying to get cheap heat instead of having the oppertunity to become the biggest face of all time by "doing what you do best" and wrestling. McMahon is right in calling you pathetic and i know thats all written for tv but that what u are bret pathetic. I remember when they made your dvd and asked you to do a run in at wrestlemania in hbk's match and u refused because you didnt want to tarnish your legacy. That great and all Bret because im sure your legacy wont be tarnished by having mcmahon put you down for 5 minutes with one kick and coming back a couple weeeks later and having him spit in your face. And we all know you'll win at wm but the only reason that match will be any where close to memorable is because vince will be willing to take a huge bump for you. You've always said you love your fans but what have you done to prove it. And Bret i know you've had it rough with owen , the stroke , and the survivor series stuff but my man we've all had it rough all you had to do was what your boss told you to do just like the rest of us do every freaking day we go to work. I apologize if i offend anybody with this post and i also appologize for the length


You are an idiot, and I really don't care if that offends you. First of all, Bret Hart didn't decide to leave the WWF. Vince told him that he couldn't afford him and was going in a different direction. Vince PUSHED him to go to WCW. If you don't know what you are talking about, you should probably shut your mouth.

Also, Bret Hart never said he wouldn't drop the title to Shawn. He said he wouldn't do it in CANADA! He offered to drop it to Shawn the next night, on Raw, whether it would be in a match or by forfeit. And as far as personality goes, I guess you didn't watch much in 1997. Bret had one of the best characters in professional wrestling. His crying and complaining about Austin, etc. was great television. His anti-America heel gimmick was priceless, and helped turn him into the best heel on television. And as for his matches, if it weren't for Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels would have stayed in the mid card for quite some time. Those two had some amazing matches for the IC belt. When Bret took the WWF championship, Shawn stayed in the mid card for quite some time, but had a few shots at Brets WWF championship. Let's not forget how Bret put Shawn over in a 60 minute Iron Man match (that you probably didn't watch). Shawns style would have NEVER been good for a 60 minute match. Shawn is great at selling a beating, and them coming back, so they needed someone who could carry a good deal of the offense for 60 minutes. Sorry to tell you, but Bret was just as big a part of that match as Shawn was. I don't care if you don't like him, but at least get your facts straight and have a little respect.

Can Bret draw the way he used to? No. Half of these kids don't know who he is. Like someone said before, I don't think Austin, Rock, or Hogan would fair any better. Pro wrestling is on a popularity downturn, regardless of quality. Can Bret do much in the ring? No, not much at all. But this isn't a ratings deal. This happened for two reasons. 1. Vince is doing this for the older fans who loved Bret. And if they didn't love Bret, most of them (the intelligent ones) at least had respect for the man and what he did for the business, and wanted some closure to this whole deal. 2. Vince may feel bad for the way he treated Bret at the end of Brets run in WWF. Bret did a lot for the company that also did a lot for him. The days of Bret being a big draw are over, but that isn't Bret or Vinces' fault.
 
It's a good angle, that's why they're doing it. A man who was wronged, imo, came back to bury the hatchet and the guy that wronged him proves what a dick he really is. Now, Bret is going to get retribution, revenge is always a good angle. On the personal level, it was probably therapeutic(spelling?) for at least Bret to do this so he can move on with his life so there are two reasons to do this. Now, they'd be wasting it on Cena and Batista if what I'm hearing is true. This could've been a golden opportunity to get the Hart Dynasty over but they're missing it so far.
 
You are an idiot, and I really don't care if that offends you. First of all, Bret Hart didn't decide to leave the WWF. Vince told him that he couldn't afford him and was going in a different direction. Vince PUSHED him to go to WCW. If you don't know what you are talking about, you should probably shut your mouth.

Also, Bret Hart never said he wouldn't drop the title to Shawn. He said he wouldn't do it in CANADA! He offered to drop it to Shawn the next night, on Raw, whether it would be in a match or by forfeit. And as far as personality goes, I guess you didn't watch much in 1997. Bret had one of the best characters in professional wrestling. His crying and complaining about Austin, etc. was great television. His anti-America heel gimmick was priceless, and helped turn him into the best heel on television. And as for his matches, if it weren't for Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels would have stayed in the mid card for quite some time. Those two had some amazing matches for the IC belt. When Bret took the WWF championship, Shawn stayed in the mid card for quite some time, but had a few shots at Brets WWF championship. Let's not forget how Bret put Shawn over in a 60 minute Iron Man match (that you probably didn't watch). Shawns style would have NEVER been good for a 60 minute match. Shawn is great at selling a beating, and them coming back, so they needed someone who could carry a good deal of the offense for 60 minutes. Sorry to tell you, but Bret was just as big a part of that match as Shawn was. I don't care if you don't like him, but at least get your facts straight and have a little respect.

Can Bret draw the way he used to? No. Half of these kids don't know who he is. Like someone said before, I don't think Austin, Rock, or Hogan would fair any better. Pro wrestling is on a popularity downturn, regardless of quality. Can Bret do much in the ring? No, not much at all. But this isn't a ratings deal. This happened for two reasons. 1. Vince is doing this for the older fans who loved Bret. And if they didn't love Bret, most of them (the intelligent ones) at least had respect for the man and what he did for the business, and wanted some closure to this whole deal. 2. Vince may feel bad for the way he treated Bret at the end of Brets run in WWF. Bret did a lot for the company that also did a lot for him. The days of Bret being a big draw are over, but that isn't Bret or Vinces' fault.

Everyone seems to forget the fact that Bret Hart had creative control of his character for the final 30 days of his WWE tenure. Survivor Series happened less than 30 days before Hart's debut with WCW ... Therefore, Bret had EVERY right not to drop the belt to HBK in Canada. As the story goes, Hart initially agreed to do it until HBK opened his mouth, telling Bret that he wouldn't do the same for him. People forget that before HBK "found Christ," he was known as a total prick and was one of the least popular guys in the locker room.

I do love how the guy called Hart boring, though. Oh my God, he couldn't work a match with Nash or Vader? Nash has never been very good in the ring and Vader was all but finished when he got to WWE. Hart's resume speaks for itself. He made HBK ... He "discovered" Austin (go see why VKM signed him) ... 'nuff said.
 
i just have a problem with seeing everyone always say how kids don know this guy or this guy or it wasnt in their time.. ok maybe not but when i was 10 years old cheerin for hbk, stone cold, i still knew who everyone else was like hogan savage warrior etc etc, i used to watch old wresltling tapes ppl talk ya know, everyone thinks cuz the kids cheer cena that they dont know anyone else cuz we dont like cena, i remember not liking the rock for sometime cuz everyone my age would say oh i love the rock blah blah and i was like ok u only like him pretty much for the same reasons ppl say they like cena, cuz there the only big name they know, like kids arent clueless im sure they have some idea who brett hart is
 
Seriously, im sick and tired of these threads posted by marks that do nothing but nit-pick and cry about every single little thing and are clearly still upset that the attitude era is over. The Bret Hart angel is great in my opinion and they are doing the best job they can with it. the only thing that threw me for a loop was the whole Batista running to the ring thing, still. If wwe pisses u guys off so much, then dont watch it. For years u guys wudda killed to have Bret Hart back in the wwe but now that hes there u like "whats the point". Seriously, if u guys just stuck to being fans rather than tryna analyze everything i garentee ud enjoy it a lot more. This Bret Hart angel is the best thing WWE has done in a while n im totally interested in seeing where it goes.
 
First off, he does draw. When Bret Hart first returned a month ago, Raw had huge ratings. If TNA wasn't running at the same time, it would've breached the 4.0 rating easy. And even if it didn't, who cares? We tuned in, we tuned in on Monday when he came back, we wanted to see Bret back.

The people complaining about this angle are the same people complaining about TNA's situation right now: they have zero patience and want things going now, now, now. WAIT. See what happens. Have some patience. Vince and Bret have had two interactions so far. Wait and see what they do next before you judge how this will turn out.
 
Well, if Bret Hart is a draw, he's maxed out his interest. WWE has consistently done a 3.6 since his debut, and Vince has been disappointed that Hart has not been drawing higher numbers then this. It's all downhill from this point forward in terms of ratings.

The problem is Vince's logic. Vince has alienated so many of his older viewers since ushering in the PG Era and getting rid of the Attitude Era. So a good amount of them went elsewhere because his product became too toned down. They went on to UFC or just lost interest in wrestling altogether. So now, they try to bring Bret Hart in, and they wonder why he isn't getting over all that great with the audience.

The answer is simple. The audience ... today's new audience of WWE fans, has absolutely no idea who Bret Hart even is or what he's done. That is why you have to see Vince painstakingly try to get Bret over on the mic by building him up. But this is all on Vince for alienating his older viewers over the years, and as a result, they lost interest in WWE. This is simply what happens when you turn your back on your fans, like Vince did, and is a cost of doing business, I suppose.

However, I don't want to say it's all for not. For the older fans that have remained over the years, it does give them a treat. However, they were probably going to watch anyway, if they stuck with Vince all this time throughout the years, so Hart's return probably wasn't necessary. Maybe Vince wanted to bring some older viewers back, but after the way he's thanked those viewers for their hard-earned money being spent on his products throughout the decades by giving them Hornswoggle running around the ring every Monday along with lame and corny DX comedy skits as a thank you for their support, it's not surprising if they wouldn't return to his show, despite Bret Hart's appearance.

If Bret Hart can't wrestle, and it really looks like he is in no condition to, it is a huge letdown in the eyes of wrestling fans. But what can you do? It's good to see the guy back though as a follow up to Montreal, even if what they have done with Hart so far has been extremely lame. His interaction with Michaels was a completely missed opportunity and his interactions with McMahon have been less than impressive. But again, despite all that, as a fan during the Hogan Era, it's good to see Bret Hart's face, at least.
 

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