Batista is now a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels

[My$terio_Fan]

Meh? Both are pretty boring to me, but I still am more entertained more by Michaels matches more than Batista. HBK is defenitly past his prime and not as good as he once was, no doubt. But I still think he can work better in the ring better than alot of people. His matches with Jericho weren't the best, but Jericho's in ring hasn't been 100%. HBK's match with Batista wasn't anything special either but I think both are to blame. He had pretty good matches with Hardy, Kennedy, and was able to pull off a somewhat decent match with Flair at Mania(about as good as it gets). Batista definetly has the momentum right now but no matter what he does in the ring, I always find him boring, repetitive, and just generally sloppy. HBK matches are like that too, but personally I find him to be more entertaining.

 

[image1986]

I argee justattack on a couple of points. Slyfox I think your is hilarious. Batista Plays a better charecter? His gimmick is the least original thing about him. His gimmick is no different then goldbergs or lesners or any other muscled bound big man. Other then his hulk smash routine there's no depth to his charecter at all to make u think he won't end up being a footnote in history. Guys like taker kane vader bam bam mike awesone took the big man role and ran with it. Batista does what people expect him to do which is ok but how long will that be entertaining before people get sick of it. Granted hbk has trademark moves he uses to death but but occasionally he will throw a wild pitch that people didn't expect. The one reason I can give that many people can not dipute is whne hbk wrestles he does it with passion that batista does not have and that's what makes a great wrestler not the many moves he can do its the ability to give the fans a show that is worth the price of admission. Batistas match can be a hit or miss hbk match are either good or great depending on who face. And the funny part is other than cena hbk has been in the main event in the last 6 years years more than any one on the current roster

 

[image1986]

I argee justattack on a couple of points. Slyfox I think your is hilarious. Batista Plays a better charecter? His gimmick is the least original thing about him. His gimmick is no different then goldbergs or lesners or any other muscled bound big man. Other then his hulk smash routine there's no depth to his charecter at all to make u think he won't end up being a footnote in history. Guys like taker kane vader bam bam mike awesone took the big man role and ran with it. Batista does what people expect him to do which is ok but how long will that be entertaining before people get sick of it. Granted hbk has trademark moves he uses to death but but occasionally he will throw a wild pitch that people didn't expect. The one reason I can give that many people can not dipute is whne hbk wrestles he does it with passion that batista does not have and that's what makes a great wrestler not the many moves he can do its the ability to give the fans a show that is worth the price of admission. Batistas match can be a hit or miss hbk match are either good or great depending on who face. And the funny part is other than cena hbk has been in the main event on wrestlemania 3 of the last 6 years so if the guy is not on his game it seems like wwe keeps giving him the ball

 

[The Man of 1,000 Names]

i tend to give batista a lot more credit than most people do. I think with the right opponent, he's capable of having great matches. shawn michaels, on the other hand, can have a great match with anyone, which is something that has made him one of the all-time best in my opinion. Of course HBK is going to be slowing down as he gets older, that's just natural, but his performance skills helped make the angle between him and jericho one of the best in years. so no, i dont think batista is a better wrestler than michaels right now, he just isn't capable of performing at a level of consistency that we've learned to appreciate from michaels.

 

[justinsayne]

Woah! There is no way in hell anybody can consider Batista a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels.

Umm yes I can, and do

You say Michaels is boring? And he has boring promos? Ok, he wasn't being all entertaining the other night in his promo with Jericho because he was being serious, not all excited.

I say HBK is boring cause he is boring, and I say his promos are boring cause they are, being serious has nothing to do with HBK's lack of being entertaining the other night, doing the same dumb predicable boring routine he's done for the past six years does

And Batista's promos are just him threatening somebody then hitting them. Atleast Michaels's promos are actually enjoyable and you don't know what's going to happen every time.

Please HBK's promos are they same damn thing everytime, "blah blah blah, I'm gonna kick your teeth down your throat, blah blah blah" then he goes for sweet chin music, I really can't see how you can put Batista's promos down when HBK's really aren't that much different or better

Now, you say Batista is a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels.

Well if by better you mean more entertaining then yeah he is

Ok, I think the longest Batista match I've ever seen might have been the length of a commercial break, maybe a little longer. Ok, not really but you get the point. Shawn's longest match was like an hour plus!

So all it takes to be a good wrestler is to be able to "go" for an hour?, I'll give you this, HBK is capable of putting on better matches, but that doesn't mean that he is able to keep my attention for that full hour, where Batista is capable of keeping my attention for his 10-20 minute match

And it was a great match! If Batista tried to do an hour long match, he'd be out by the 25 minute mark! He couldn't carry anybody through any kind of a match. Michaels could carry Big Daddy V through a match if he wanted to. That's how good he is.

Oh please lose the carry bullshit, it takes two people to have a good match, HBK was working with Hart and Cena in both his 60 min. matches, if either one of those guys crapped out at any point in the match HBK would have looked like shit

Now, his match with Jericho at WM 19 was good, and his last series of matches with him were just as good but Jericho didn't carry him through the whole rivalry!

WM 19 match with Jericho was great, his matches with Jericho in this feud though have been a major letdown, and this current feud with Jericho that's been going on for the past 7 or so months, is by far the most overrated feud in wrestling today

Shawn put on one of the best matches I've seen in a ladder match while Batista put on one of the most boring matches I've seen in his match with JBL.

Oh for fucksake, HBK was in a match that plays to his strengths with Jericho, a guy also known for his history in ladder matches, where Batista was in a standard singles match with one of the shittiest guys on the RAW roster right now, if Batista and HBK had switched places, then HBK would have had an absolute shit match and Batista would have had the better match of the two

In my opinion, HBK is one of the best going today while Batista is one of the most boring going today.

Switch HBK and Batista around and your opinion would be right

 

[image1986]

I think justin has it all twisted. Batista opponents seem to make batista look good while hbks opponents make his opponents look credible. Justin is saying that if u put a person like mysterio or brian kendricks who are both just as talented as batista in the ring it won't look like a squash match? Batista is only entertaining when he faces someone that is viewed as a threat. Look at the cm punk match he had he was champion and no one believed that it was possible to go over batista cleanly and in the end the match sucked. Its good to seem dominant but squashing everyone doesn't help. You need a credible opponent in addition to u being good without a good opponent batista is overrated

 

[Milkyway!]

i agree with sly here...Batista, is better than HBK is these days.....

a lot of people here, are confused as to what sly means in my opinion, no one ever said Batista is better than HBK ever was, no, its just the fact that HBK is getting old, hes losing his love for the company, and its noticeable, compared to his match 6 years ago with jericho, this HBK we see here today, sucks, really bad........and batista, is getting better and better everytime we see him.. simple as that, Batista cuts decent to good promos, and is playing a great role in his baby face, sure, the HBK we say vs bret hart in the iron man match, was 40x better (i just hit the first two numbers my fingers tapped because its true in all reality anyways) than this HBK we see today....he was actually wrestling, now the hbk we see today, "carry me carry me carry me clothesline spark up elbow drop tune of the band, sweet chin music 1-2-3" thats all we get out of him now......jericho pushed and pulled on him, and we didnt get much of anything out of HBK, its simple, batista, has surpassed TODAYS HBK, hes wrestling better, hes putting on better shows, hes drawing better, hes bringing in the rating, HBK, is not.....the only thing better about HBK than what he was back then, is hes a better person, he dont have to be on top, but i also wonder, if this has caused the loss of the love to the business, whats the point, if your not going to play to win..but that was just a side note....Batista, is, the better superstar now, and im not looking for that to change...because batista is going up slowly, and HBK is declining, rapidly...hes running out of people to carry him, HHH went to smackdown jericho has to move on, whos going to be HBK's lacky to carry him now???? well just have to wait and see

 

[BRandonkin]

Who carried Shawn Michaels in the hour long match with Cena last year? Who carried Michaels at that Royal Rumble last year against the Undertaker? Who carried Michaels at Wrestlemania this year? Who carried Michael at Backlash against Batista? Then there was the Kennedy-Michaels feud, that was pretty good. Michaels vs Hardy this year was awesome as well. Michaels may not be able to carry every opponent to a descent match, but Batista can’t either. He has not had one good match and Batista does the same promo as well how he going to whoop somebody ass. I do wish for the heel days of Michaels even like he was when took on Hogan and was doing those promos, but he is nowhere near as bad as Boretisa who only does spinebusters and spears. Hell, Michaels added submission holds, mat wrestling, and more to his arsenal. Batista has added nothing. Batista get over because of his size and how he is build as the unstoppable monster where Michaels, like Jericho and others are made to be mere mortals competing over championship.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Michaels is pretty boring, but in my opinion he's been boring since he debuted way back with NWO. The whole "ohhh I may be old and injured, but I still got heart and faith!" crap grew real old real quick. If it were any other wrestler it wouldn't bother me, but Michaels is capable of being so over-the-top entertaining that his current state makes me sad.

As for Batista being better? Funny how you mentioned Jericho carrying Michaels but you didn't mention how Jericho is now carrying Batista, just like John Cena carried Batista before his injury. The only reason Batista is so over is because he's a big guy that the WWE pushes over anyone and everyone. His mic work is practically non-existent, though he does seem coy or clever when he just smiles at Jericho or Cena, but this is more on the part of Jericho/Cena than Batista.

On a side note, to me being entertaining has a lot to do with being surprising (rare in the WWE these days). With Batista there is no surprise; he wins clean every match, and he sells nothing.

 

[jmt225]

I, for the life of me, will never understand how anyone can still sit there and say Batista is better then HBK after these past couple of weeks. Batista's feud with Jericho thus far has been absolutely fucking dreadful. Horrendous. Terrible. Boring as shit. I don't know how else to put it. God it's awful.

Jericho vs. HBK was none of those things, and even if you want to say Jericho carried Shawn throughout it (which is a bunch of horseshit to begin with, but for argument's sake, I'll bite), then how come Jericho, who doesn't even have to carry Batista since he's so great and so much better then Shawn Michaels, hasn't been able to get the same kind of entertainment quality out of Batista? And don't any of you fucking dare say it's because of booking because you are the exact same motherfuckers who refuse to say it was WWE's booking why Punk's run as champ wasn't enjoyable.

You know what the answer is to that question? It's simply that Batista is no where near the promo cutter, or seller, or comeback giver, Shawn is and that's why the shit has been so bad. And I'd be willing to bet everything I own that Jericho and Batista’s upcoming matches are just as boring/horrible as Batista's promos, and that's because Batista needs to be carried by someone who is talented and comes close to his size/strength to be able to have good matches. Michaels, on the other hand, can have good matches with pretty much anyone.

Bottom line here is this, HBK vs. Jericho is worthy of a main event. Jericho vs. Batista, however, certainly is not and that alone is proof that HBK is and will always be light years ahead of Batista when it comes to talent in this industry.

 

[Mexican Geek]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Slyfox mission, that is. Perfect bait and BAM! they're out.
I think Slyfox stated pretty clear that NOW Batista is a better wrestler.

no one in the WWE is hotter than Batista right now. Batista was a Wrestler of the Year candidate in 2007, and he's doing just as well in 2008. He's mega over with the fans, he's exciting to watch, and his power game is just incredible right now. He's more limited in the ring than some workers, but what he does, he does incredibly well.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I can't find anything bad regarding Shawn's legacy or his technical wrestling experience. Even in the first part:

While Shawn Michaels has been regressing in entertainment value for the last 6 years, there's no doubt that he has NEVER been as atrocious as he is right now. Maybe it's nagging injuries, maybe it's old age, maybe it's a lack of recklessness, but the simple fact is that Michaels is now boring. He was carried for months by Chris Jericho, and their matches in 2008 doesn't come NEAR the quality of their WM 19 encounter. And while that match was stellar, and it's unfair to expect the same quality every time out, the simple fact is that the Jericho/HBK matches just haven't lived up to their expectations. And I put all of that on HBK. He's out of it, looks like he doesn't care, plays a boring character, and pretty much has just gone through the motions since 2005, with only a few exceptions.

I can even find some constructive criticism in here TBH. And sorry HBK fans but it's all there. No one is arguing Shawn's status as a Big Star (for whatever the reasons...) and his great legacy, but someone should put HBK's career out of his actual misery and call me crazy, but besides of the obvious choice of Triple H, I would choose Batista to silence the old yeller for good. "You retired my mentor, and I take revenge retiring you". If that's not putting someone over, then I don't know what it is. Also, that would be a great, great storyline, even better than Flair's silly RETAAAAAH angle.

And please don't start with the "some young talent should retire HBK so he can put him over" argument. Is irrational, never happened before and it will never happen, not even in your wildest dreams.

I'd never imagined myself saying all this, but it's real... (you know what goes next )

 

[The Undercover Man]

And, in my opinion, it's not even debatable. While Shawn Michaels has been regressing in entertainment value for the last 6 years, there's no doubt that he has NEVER been as atrocious as he is right now.

I strongly disagree, if Shawn Michaels has been atrocious for the past 6 years why has he been in WrestleMania? Why has he "headlined" some PPV's? Not many wrestlers who do that kind of stuff are atrocious in my opinion. That shows they still have the ability to put on a great performances, that also shows Vince has trust in Michaels to go out in the ring and entertain people even in his early 40's

Maybe it's nagging injuries, maybe it's old age, maybe it's a lack of recklessness, but the simple fact is that Michaels is now boring.

I think injuries do play apart in a wrestlers decline, i'm not saying Michaels is declining but your right. I hink it also has to do with old age although why did'nt anyone else play that card with Ric Flair? Or is it becaue he is untouchable? Once again i disagree when you say Michaels is boring, Michaels still entertains milions of fans, it may not be you but he still entertains everyone else. Like i siad earlier, he has headlined Wrestlemania and headlined other PPV's in those 6 years.

He was carried for months by Chris Jericho, and their matches in 2008 doesn't come NEAR the quality of their WM 19 encounter.

I disagree again, i don't think he was carried in any of the matches between them too. Infact i thought the matches even themselves out. they both worked as hard as eachother and the both gave the same amount of skill during matches

And while that match was stellar, and it's unfair to expect the same quality every time out, the simple fact is that the Jericho/HBK matches just haven't lived up to their expectations.

Again i disagree, most of those matches were great. Especially at No Mercy that match was touted as one fo the best ladder matches ever. The match at the Great American bash was also good, admittedly Jericho stomped all over Michaels but that was all part of the storyline and script for that match. Theres been plenty matches in that feud that have beengood in my opinion.

And I put all of that on HBK. He's out of it, looks like he doesn't care, plays a boring character, and pretty much has just gone through the motions since 2005, with only a few exceptions.

i can agree with you there when you said HBK has gone through the motions since 2005. But he can't have gone through them that quick, like i said earlier, he has headlined wrestleMania, and haedlined some PPV's since 2005

On the other hand, no one in the WWE is hotter than Batista right now. Batista was a Wrestler of the Year candidate in 2007, and he's doing just as well in 2008. He's mega over with the fans, he's exciting to watch, and his power game is just incredible right now. He's more limited in the ring than some workers, but what he does, he does incredibly well

I agree with you on Batista but he also has is haters as many wrestlers do, i'm surprised that we hardly ever see anyone at a WWE show bash Batista by saying "you can't wrestle" or something cheap like that. I'm a fan of batista because he is entertaining. he isn't the best wrestler but he isn't as bad a entertainer as some make out. He creates a great atmosphere when in the ring adn gets the crowd up off their seats. I'd liken him to John Cena.

So, I submit to all of you, that as of this moment, Batista has overtaken Shawn Michaels in terms of being a good wrestler.

Yes, he has. Michaels isn't a poor wrestler but at the moment possibly because of age and injuries he has taken a back seat in WWE right now. or he could just be helping younger talent get over??? Batista has good mic skills, has poor wrestling ability but is a great entertainer.

 

[Banes88]

I almost pissed myself with laughter when I first seen the thread title, honestly.

Are you seriously trying to compare Batista to Shawn Michaels, seriously? Hahahahahahahahaha.

It doesn't even come close. You take a huge guy like Batista, and you're trying to stack him up against Shawn Michaels? Ok, lets go somewhere with this.

You have Shawn Michaels, he's not a huge muscle built freak like some of the guys today. He has never really been a huge power house. But, as far as i'm concerned, he doesn't and never has needed that aspect. Shawn has put on some of the most memorable matches in past AND recent history. Take for example, Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho in a Ladder Match, Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair at WrestleMania 24. And, i'm trying to think and it's starting to hurt here, but, when's the last big thing that Batista has done to blow my mind? Hmm, win the title only to drop it in a couple weeks? Nahhh. Get drafted to RAW and still not be a decent champion? Nahhh. Come to think of it, he has done NOTHING to make me sit here and think "damn, that was a great moment in wrestling". When really, I can probably sit here, and only get maybe 3 or 4 of those moments from Batista. When I can sit here and write a novel about HBK.

 

[Slyfox696]

I strongly disagree, if Shawn Michaels has been atrocious for the past 6 years why has he been in WrestleMania? Why has he "headlined" some PPV's?

Nostalgic value. The same reason people actually think Ric Flair was worth a damn.

Not many wrestlers who do that kind of stuff are atrocious in my opinion.

Again, see Ric Flair.

That shows they still have the ability to put on a great performances, that also shows Vince has trust in Michaels to go out in the ring and entertain people even in his early 40's

No, it shows that people will still buy the crap that Michaels has been putting out for the last several years.

I think injuries do play apart in a wrestlers decline, i'm not saying Michaels is declining but your right. I hink it also has to do with old age although why did'nt anyone else play that card with Ric Flair?

You don't have to play the old age card with Ric Flair, because he was never that great to begin with.

Once again i disagree when you say Michaels is boring, Michaels still entertains milions of fans, it may not be you but he still entertains everyone else. Like i siad earlier, he has headlined Wrestlemania and headlined other PPV's in those 6 years.

Please list all of his good matches since Wrestlemania 21.

I disagree again, i don't think he was carried in any of the matches between them too. Infact i thought the matches even themselves out. they both worked as hard as eachother and the both gave the same amount of skill during matches

The matches were average, at best. But, I was referring to being carried in the feud. Which he was.

Again i disagree, most of those matches were great. Especially at No Mercy that match was touted as one fo the best ladder matches ever. The match at the Great American bash was also good, admittedly Jericho stomped all over Michaels but that was all part of the storyline and script for that match. Theres been plenty matches in that feud that have beengood in my opinion.

Disagree all you want. Doesn't change the fact they sucked.

I agree with you on Batista but he also has is haters as many wrestlers do, i'm surprised that we hardly ever see anyone at a WWE show bash Batista by saying "you can't wrestle" or something cheap like that.

You want to know why? Because it's never been cool to hate on Batista, like it was with Cena.

I'm a fan of batista because he is entertaining. he isn't the best wrestler but he isn't as bad a entertainer as some make out. He creates a great atmosphere when in the ring adn gets the crowd up off their seats. I'd liken him to John Cena.

I would as well, except Cena's twice the worker Batista is. And that's not a knock on Batista, just how good Cena is.

But, Batista is a very good worker...better than Shawn Michaels.

Batista has good mic skills, has poor wrestling ability but is a great entertainer.

Entertainer and wrestler mean the same thing in professional wrestling.

I almost pissed myself with laughter when I first seen the thread title, honestly.

Sounds like a bladder control problem.

Are you seriously trying to compare Batista to Shawn Michaels, seriously? Hahahahahahahahaha.

Oh, I wouldn't say HBK is THAT bad yet.

It doesn't even come close. You take a huge guy like Batista, and you're trying to stack him up against Shawn Michaels? Ok, lets go somewhere with this.

Yes, because size obviously has everything to do with skill.

[/quote]You have Shawn Michaels, he's not a huge muscle built freak like some of the guys today. He has never really been a huge power house. But, as far as i'm concerned, he doesn't and never has needed that aspect. Shawn has put on some of the most memorable matches in past AND recent history. Take for example, Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho in a Ladder Match, Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair at WrestleMania 24.[/quote]Those matches sucked. Especially the one at WM. Awful.

And, i'm trying to think and it's starting to hurt here, but, when's the last big thing that Batista has done to blow my mind?

Summerslam vs. John Cena?

When really, I can probably sit here, and only get maybe 3 or 4 of those moments from Batista. When I can sit here and write a novel about HBK.

Write all the novels you want, that has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not talking about 10 years ago, I'm talking about right now. Surely you're not too busy pissing yourself to understand how to read are you?

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Summerslam vs. John Cena?

That match was obviously carried by John Cena, Sly.

I don't think that Batista is better than Shawn Michaels. Yet. While Shawn is certainly on the decline, he's certainly not as shitty as Batista. Batista does nothing for me. He doesn't impress me on the mic or in the ring. The one time I have been pleasantly surprised by Batista was at Summerslam against John Cena. That match was all Cena.

Shawn is pretty bland and boring too, now, though. He was great.. But, in the last year or so, he's really gotten stale. His promos are boring. His matches are boring. He's just gotten old. Shame.

 

[The Undercover Man]

Nostalgic value. The same reason people actually think Ric Flair was worth a damn.

I just think that anyone that is allowed to perform at WrestleMania has to have some ability or talent to perform at WWE's biggest PPV of the year. Ric Flair was'nt the best wrestler but he certainly entertained his fans.

Again, see Ric Flair.

See above

No, it shows that people will still buy the crap that Michaels has been putting out for the last several years.

I would'nt call it "crap" there are still people out there that enjoy what he does.

You don't have to play the old age card with Ric Flair, because he was never that great to begin with..

I think he was , don't the amoutn of titles he has say something? Or do titles matter in wrestling?

Please list all of his good matches since Wrestlemania 21.

I'll list the PPV matches

WrestleMania 22 No Holds Barred vs Vince McMahon
WrestleMania 23 v John Cena
WrestleMania 24 vs Ric Flair
No Mercy vs Chris Jericho

being in the next three WrestleMania's since WrsetleMania 22 suggest to me he still has ability and i think they have been good matches.

The matches were average, at best. But, I was referring to being carried in the feud. Which he was.

I disagree, i thought they both shared the workload during the feud. your opinion though

Disagree all you want. Doesn't change the fact they sucked.

i will, because they were decent matches. Not all of them were good but there was some excellent matches that came out of the feud. Why was there a story going round that they would keep this feud going to WrestleMania 25, if the matches were that poor?

You want to know why? Because it's never been cool to hate on Batista, like it was with Cena.

I disagree, many people hate on Batista because they think that he is a poor wrestler

I would as well, except Cena's twice the worker Batista is. And that's not a knock on Batista, just how good Cena is.

Providing on what i have seen and how much Cena is in the mdeia for doing Make-A-Wish most weeks i'll agree.

But, Batista is a very good worker...better than Shawn Michaels.

right now , yes

Entertainer and wrestler mean the same thing in professional wrestling.

Thanks for the reminder

 

[Slyfox696]

I just think that anyone that is allowed to perform at WrestleMania has to have some ability or talent to perform at WWE's biggest PPV of the year.

Then how do you explain Mr. Kennedy and Carlito at the last WM?

I would'nt call it "crap" there are still people out there that enjoy what he does.

There were people who enjoyed what Ric Flair did...doesn't mean it wasn't crap.

I think he was , don't the amoutn of titles he has say something? Or do titles matter in wrestling?

Look at the number of titles, and the length he held them, when put on national TV every week.

Then get back to me.

I'll list the PPV matches

WrestleMania 22 No Holds Barred vs Vince McMahon
WrestleMania 23 v John Cena
WrestleMania 24 vs Ric Flair
No Mercy vs Chris Jericho

There was only one good match on there and that was WM 23.

WM 22 was flat awful. Seriously. WM 24 was flat awful. And the ladder match was average, at best.

I disagree, i thought they both shared the workload during the feud. your opinion though

I would love to hear how. Chris Jericho turned the fans against him, made them boo him, and built all the heat. All Michaels did was mope around for a few months.

I disagree, many people hate on Batista because they think that he is a poor wrestler

Umm...what? That doesn't make sense, in the context I was replying to.

You remarked that you were surprised people didn't chant you can't wrestle at Batista, and I'm just saying that is only because it wasn't cool to hate Batista.

 

[Kyphael]

It's not cool to hate on Batista but there are plenty of people who think he is even worse than John Cena, for the sheer fact the guy has zero charisma. Despite what Cena has going against him, the man oozescharisma, he is a work horse and generally well-liked, whereas Batista has been described as more interested in cars than the business and even an asshole, which resulted in him getting put in his place by Booker T a while back. I don't know why Batista is as arrogant as he is backstage, honestly, he is decent at best and now that Cena is supposedly more "aggressive", Batista is exactly like Cena, except less charismatic.

Doesn't mean I love Shawn Michaels' character, though. He needed a character overhaul years ago when he returned, but at this stage in the game, tittering on retirement, no point anymore. I recognize he a shell of his former self, but not due to lack of passion; moreso the pain he is in night in and night out, which is apparent by his facial exppressions in the ring, must just weigh him down. Every match he wrestles, he just seems like he wants to get through it, grimmacing and cringing. He is past his prime and he knows it, but being Shawn Michaels, his ego is still there and he wants to go out there to prove he can still go, at least to redeem his career if nothing else. Despite all this, however, there is one thing about Shawn Michaels that you will never hear uttered by anyone in the business that knows and respects all the workers; in his prime during the mid 90's, Shawn Michaels was untouchable, a league of his own. Batista, on his best day, was hardly in the top 5.

 

[Canadian Knight]

Batista is a better wrestler then HBK now. At Wrestlemania HBK had a very poor performance there. Yeah it was not entirely his fault. Batista can give a pretty good fight but of late can the same be said of Shawn. He is cloing down and is can't do some of the moves he has done in his prime.

 

[RVDgurl]

I never thought I would see the day where I would be able to sit through a Batista match and like it for more than just his pretty face. The past 3 or 4 weeks I have done just that. In fact, I haven't even noticed that he's pretty (although a shaved head does not work for him). Yep, Bastista is actually winning me over with his skills. Yes, Slyfox...skills.

I think that Sly's observation made 2 months is right on point. HBK hasn't been getting it done for a few years now. Batista is. Batista will never be known for his technical execution, but that's not his game anyway. He is simply a power wrestler and he does that extremely well.

The fans go bananas each and every time the man's entrance music hits. He is mega-over with fans in every city. He has loads of charisma in the ring and on the mic. HBK still gets a good reaction, but it just doesn't compare these days. And the Heartbreak Kid's charisma is definately lacking.

 

[Azrael Cain]

I cannot think of anyone who can ignore the nostalgia of what Shawn Michaels used to be. It is difficult to do, and difficult not to compare him now to the wrestler he used to be. But, time has been clearly unkind to Shawn, and I think he has realized that, or is at least in the process of realizing it. I think sooner or later Shawn will have to pass the torch to someone far younger and someone far better (than Shawn is now). However, is Shawn to blame for his supposed amount of suck at the current moment? I don't think so. And I think if we are comparing him to Batista, we are comparing two entirely different wrestlers and people who have incredibly different ring styles, mentalities, business outlook and legacies in the sports entertainment industry. We are also looking at these two incredibly different performers at a different period in time for the wrestling industry and the WWE itself.

Shawn helped make the WWE what it was as a character, and with his wrestling ability. His spot of flipping over in the corner is among the most noticeable and best spots I've seen in professional wrestling (not counting all the spots that occur in the independents, which are often more extreme) that is shown on national and global level television. But the fact remains that his prime has passed, and the wear and tear has caught up to him. But we shouldn't blame the man for returning and trying to recapture some old glory. He thought, and may still think, he has a few good ones left in him, and he very well may have. I will say this: Michaels at 100% of his game is untouchable -- nostalgic bias or not. At 100, he is among the most entertaining and clever performers.

That said, again, we keep in mind we are comparing a High-Flier to a Powerhouse Brawler. So, wrestling skill can't be compared: it's far too different, and is on two different scales. I doubt either man has the Amateur background of let's say Shelton or Brock or Kurt -- in fact, Michaels trained in wrestling and was a footballplayer and Batista was a bodybuilder and bouncer -- come on! So, I think that in this context the term "wrestler," truly refers to "sports entertainer, and it is very important to make that distinction.

With that said, at this current moment in time, Batista has youth (he's 39) against Shawn's age (he's 43), but only by a few years. But Batista does not have the battery of injuries nor the legacy and air of nostalgia Shawn has. There is less for Batista to be compared to, and as a result, he is building his legacy and is the better for it. Shawn is riding his legacy to the bank... and as well he should; he's worked hard to get to where he is. I think in 2008, Batista is the better entertainer and is more suited to be a star. Michaels is the "old,reliable draw" because of who he is, so it will always be exciting to watch him and remember what he was, because there are glimpses of that athlete in Michaels even now. But again - different styles, different time. In the 2008 WWE, most of the top stars brawl. Even Shawn has toned down the intensity -- and perhaps that is why this debate has arisen. In the 1990s WWE, Shawn would've owned Batista, though.

 

[mccannman]

And, in my opinion, it's not even debatable. While Shawn Michaels has been regressing in entertainment value for the last 6 years, there's no doubt that he has NEVER been as atrocious as he is right now. Maybe it's nagging injuries, maybe it's old age, maybe it's a lack of recklessness, but the simple fact is that Michaels is now boring. He was carried for months by Chris Jericho, and their matches in 2008 doesn't come NEAR the quality of their WM 19 encounter. And while that match was stellar, and it's unfair to expect the same quality every time out, the simple fact is that the Jericho/HBK matches just haven't lived up to their expectations. And I put all of that on HBK. He's out of it, looks like he doesn't care, plays a boring character, and pretty much has just gone through the motions since 2005, with only a few exceptions.

On the other hand, no one in the WWE is hotter than Batista right now. Batista was a Wrestler of the Year candidate in 2007, and he's doing just as well in 2008. He's mega over with the fans, he's exciting to watch, and his power game is just incredible right now. He's more limited in the ring than some workers, but what he does, he does incredibly well.

So, I submit to all of you, that as of this moment, Batista has overtaken Shawn Michaels in terms of being a good wrestler.

are u hi. or something batista is one of the worst wrestlers ive ever seen in main event status,shawn is busted to shit but still could put on a better performance if he was pulling a zack gowen,im a wrestler my self and i also notice batista is the one guy in wwe you can see talking all the time in his matches,his mic skills blow,evolution and his look made the animal ,but after his week long reign i think wwe is starting to see this too.

 

[Milkyway!]

I almost pissed myself with laughter when I first seen the thread title, honestly.

Are you seriously trying to compare Batista to Shawn Michaels, seriously? Hahahahahahahahaha.

It doesn't even come close. You take a huge guy like Batista, and you're trying to stack him up against Shawn Michaels? Ok, lets go somewhere with this.

You have Shawn Michaels, he's not a huge muscle built freak like some of the guys today. He has never really been a huge power house. But, as far as i'm concerned, he doesn't and never has needed that aspect. Shawn has put on some of the most memorable matches in past AND recent history. Take for example, Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho in a Ladder Match, Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair at WrestleMania 24. And, i'm trying to think and it's starting to hurt here, but, when's the last big thing that Batista has done to blow my mind? Hmm, win the title only to drop it in a couple weeks? Nahhh. Get drafted to RAW and still not be a decent champion? Nahhh. Come to think of it, he has done NOTHING to make me sit here and think "damn, that was a great moment in wrestling". When really, I can probably sit here, and only get maybe 3 or 4 of those moments from Batista. When I can sit here and write a novel about HBK.

in all honesty, that match sucked...itll never be remembered for the wrestling in it, (like hbk/bret hards iron man match Is remembered, because of wrestling technicallity) that match, sucked...i changed the channel during the match, its bored me, greatly, it was only big because ric flair had to retire..which was LONG overdue, he should have retired along with arn anderson, when arn retired, flair has been done since 1993, and hes lived off the 80's for a decade and a half just as Shawn is doing on the 90's now...



shawn hasnt put on a good match since wm 19 imo.....otherwise, shawn, is on a decline from his mountain that he was once on..right now, hes living off his name value, and thats it, i can guarentee you, people dont get hooked on wrestling, because of HBK anymore, they see guys like cena/batista and it keeps them there (when the product grows) just like linda said they were doing with the children..hook them now, keep them later...HBK is no longer hooking anyone, he just entertains the people that knew who he once was back in the 90's now, hes just boring

 

[ad21k]

In what way is Batista hot right now?!

If he is as hot as you suggest Slyfox696 then why are WWE so relucent to put a title around his waist?

It's because the guy is an epic failure, lot an obvious failure like Ken Kennedy, or Punk but a long lingering failure that continues to rear his ugly head in the main event every 3 to 4 months before melting back into the mid card once he has jobbed to a heel champion. This is the only role Batista serves, he isnt popular enough, or a good enough storyteller in his matches to be a main event level champion. But at the same time he is big muscular guy who is popular when he faces a heel who can draw siginficant heel so to force the fans to support him (see Orton, Jericho, Edge etc.). However when he goes up against other faces have you noticed he is never the guy the fans support, this is because he doesnt intrest people. What does Batista do that is entertaining? Some stupid taunts which usually get a small pop? and what else, theres nothing. He doesnt have Cena or Ortons charisma, he doesnt

In what way is Batista hotter than Cena, Orton, or Hardy these 3 are by far the 3 hottest starsin terms of fan reaction, which is the only useful measuring stick we have to how popular they are. And Orton and Hardy's momenteum alone puts them above the likes of Edge. Please have you created this thread purposely to get a strong negative response or something. It would be madness to put Batista in the same league as the companies 3 biggest fan favorites which is why Batista won't get a look in for the forseeable future. And while I agree HBK is v. v. near the end of the useful career life as a wrestler, he is still a better wrestler than Batista easily. HBK's matches with Jericho blow anything Batista can manage out of the water. The closest thing being carried by Cena at Summerslam.

What this comes down to though is Batista is not an intresting wrestler, the guy is not a smooth mic worker and while I will begrudingly admit he can consistanly perform 1 type of match methodically, it doesnt matter because he can't add any variety to it so he just becomes stale and goes off the boil until he has a mini push every few months. WWE cant push him anymore than that because people lose intrest when they realise that his in-ring work is so limited that no amount of booking will keep peoples intrest, so they use him sparingly in main event situations instead. Can you seriously see any scenario where Batista takes the title off of Cena, or anyone else for that matter and then has a decent run with it? Last time it happened smackdown had record low viewers, and last time they even gave him a sustained main event push when he was feuding with taker, it got old really fast because of Batista's lack of mic skills and charisma. I fail to see anything from any of his promo work, let alone his recent promos that excites me about him, so I'm at a loss as how you can be so big on him.

 

[Slyfox696]

In what way is Batista hot right now?!

I think I mentioned that...

Batista was a Wrestler of the Year candidate in 2007, and he's doing just as well in 2008. He's mega over with the fans, he's exciting to watch, and his power game is just incredible right now. He's more limited in the ring than some workers, but what he does, he does incredibly well.

Yup.

If he is as hot as you suggest Slyfox696 then why are WWE so relucent to put a title around his waist?

Using this line of thinking, obviously Batista is better than Shawn Michaels, as the WWE hasn't put a title around HBK's waist since '02.

It's because the guy is an epic failure, lot an obvious failure like Ken Kennedy, or Punk but a long lingering failure that continues to rear his ugly head in the main event every 3 to 4 months before melting back into the mid card once he has jobbed to a heel champion.

Yes, usually the failures are the ones who are prominently featured in the major storylines, including the ones for the title.

This is the only role Batista serves, he isnt popular enough, or a good enough storyteller in his matches to be a main event level champion.

Which, I suppose, is why he's only been World Champion 4 times, with his last reign ending approximately a year ago.

However when he goes up against other faces have you noticed he is never the guy the fans support, this is because he doesnt intrest people.

So?

When John Cena would go against heels back in 2006, he didn't get fans support. And yet, he was still the best thing in wrestling. Silly argument.

What does Batista do that is entertaining?

You mean besides the interesting feuds, good matches, and incredible charisma?

I don't know, why don't you ask the nearly 5 million people who tune in to Raw every week.

In what way is Batista hotter than Cena, Orton, or Hardy these 3 are by far the 3 hottest starsin terms of fan reaction

None of which were wrestling on Raw when I made this thread, and none of which are Shawn Michaels, which is with whom I was comparing Batista to.

Please have you created this thread purposely to get a strong negative response or something.

I created it for discussion purposes.

And to point out that Batista is now a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels.

And while I agree HBK is v. v. near the end of the useful career life as a wrestler, he is still a better wrestler than Batista easily. HBK's matches with Jericho blow anything Batista can manage out of the water. The closest thing being carried by Cena at Summerslam.

AAAAHAHAHAHAHA

HBK's matches with Jericho were average affairs. The feud with Jericho would have been completely boring with Jericho's incredible mic work, as HBK brought ZERO to that feud.

Batista vs. Cena trumps ANYTHING that HBK has done this year, including his overrated matches with Jericho and Flair.

Last time it happened smackdown had record low viewers

Wrong. Last time Batista was given a decent run, Smackdown averaged a 2.7 TV rating. This was from September to December of 2007.

In comparison, one year later, in the same approximate time period, Smackdown now averages a 2.1 TV rating.


You're not even close to being accurate.

so I'm at a loss as how you can be so big on him.

Let's see...

Good matches, good draw, moves the ratings needle, good charisma, exciting to watch...how can one not be?