At what point does Miz get labeled "one of the greats."

[Dagger Dias]

Unless we're talking about promo skills only, the answer is never. I'll admit the guy has made improvements but he still sucks in the ring. In order to be one of the all-time greats you need to be great across the board. All that The Miz has going for him is his promo skills and his work ethic. It takes more than that to be bigger than the midcard. He should never have been WWE Champion and I adamantly stand unchanged in that opinion. He's a good Intercontinental Champion (the best recent one as much as I hate to admit it) and a good talker. That's it. He's nowhere near guys like Jericho or Orton, let alone Hogan/Rock/Austin/Cena.

 

[Dolph Ziggler's Gimmick]

I like the guy, but there are some things holding him back.

If you look at Jim Cornette's criticisms of the Miz you might just call Corny an out of touch prick and move on, but if you think more about it some of it starts to make sense. Miz does move awkwardly at times, the knees he'd do when setting up for a Figure Four almost make me cringe. For some reason even after more than a decade, he just doesn't seem smooth out there, sometimes he looks like he's struggling just to keep up.

Other than that the guy has it down. He has a great punchable look, his heel tactics and ability to work a crowd are there, and his accomplishments and overall work might land him there eventually.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Unless we're talking about promo skills only, the answer is never. I'll admit the guy has made improvements but he still sucks in the ring. In order to be one of the all-time greats you need to be great across the board. All that The Miz has going for him is his promo skills and his work ethic. It takes more than that to be bigger than the midcard. He should never have been WWE Champion and I adamantly stand unchanged in that opinion. He's a good Intercontinental Champion (the best recent one as much as I hate to admit it) and a good talker. That's it. He's nowhere near guys like Jericho or Orton, let alone Hogan/Rock/Austin/Cena.

i kinda have to disagree with one thing you wrote. I don't think that you need to be great across the board to be considered a all time great. Look at who is considered a all time greats from the last 30 years. Hulk hogan, probably one of the greatest name of all time but not a great worker at all, the guy knew how to take bumps but it's his charisma and promos that putting him in that position. Piper, rhodes, flair, warrior, savage, austin, rock, goldberg, cena. All guys that got over because of charisma alone and not great in ring work.

The thing is, i do agree that Miz isn't near the level that these guys we're because he doesn't have the charisma that these guys has and the fact that he can't really go off script like Piper was able to do back in the day isn't helping him. But in the scripted era that we are him, he still somebody that stood out of the pact especially on promo's and he's probably on of the best heel in the company right now. So while he will never really be a all time great, i could see him becoming a hall of famer someday because his body of work is worthy of being inducted when he retires.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

i kinda have to disagree with one thing you wrote. I don't think that you need to be great across the board to be considered a all time great. Look at who is considered a all time greats from the last 30 years. Hulk hogan, probably one of the greatest name of all time but not a great worker at all, the guy knew how to take bumps but it's his charisma and promos that putting him in that position. Piper, rhodes, flair, warrior, savage, austin, rock, goldberg, cena. All guys that got over because of charisma alone and not great in ring work.

The thing is, i do agree that Miz isn't near the level that these guys we're because he doesn't have the charisma that these guys has and the fact that he can't really go off script like Piper was able to do back in the day isn't helping him. But in the scripted era that we are him, he still somebody that stood out of the pact especially on promo's and he's probably on of the best heel in the company right now. So while he will never really be a all time great, i could see him becoming a hall of famer someday because his body of work is worthy of being inducted when he retires.

I think you have a point here...but Savage? I strongly disagree with that one. And I have to say Cena, who I have no feelings for one way or the other, has shown more in the ring than the good examples on your list.

I do agree, however, that many all-time greats were very good at some things and very mediocre, at best, in other areas. But, in my opinion, that is ok. I have no problem with a guy who excels in one area and makes his mark with it. I don't know why people need every box checked when discussing greatness. Andre is an all-time great. Obviously, he was no ring technician and his mic work was not great. He was a major draw, however. There are VERY few people who check all of the boxes.

 

[tdmoon]

i kinda have to disagree with one thing you wrote. I don't think that you need to be great across the board to be considered a all time great. Look at who is considered a all time greats from the last 30 years. Hulk hogan, probably one of the greatest name of all time but not a great worker at all, the guy knew how to take bumps but it's his charisma and promos that putting him in that position. Piper, rhodes, flair, warrior, savage, austin, rock, goldberg, cena. All guys that got over because of charisma alone and not great in ring work.

Ric Flair wasn't a great in-ring worker? Really?

I guess it's the cool thing to do to rip on him now but throughout the eighties he was generally seen as one of the best-if not the best-worker in all of wrestling. He owned match of the year and wrestler of the year awards and his bouts with Steamboat and Windham are among the best matches I've ever witnessed. Ric Flair is credited with eight five star matches, while the WWF only has five in their entire history. He made every wrestler he faced, even the lowest of jobbers, look like a million bucks. There is a huge list of guys, from Lex Luger to Kerry Von Erich to Nikita Koloff to Ronnie Garvin to Sting who never looked better than when facing the Nature Boy. Flair made guys like Ricky Morton and Hawk look like potential world champions. He was the genesis of the now-tired trope of being able to carry on an entertaining match with a broom. To me, saying Ric Flair wasn't a good worker is laughable.

Disagree with Savage being on that list as well, but I'll spare you all another diatribe.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

It depends on how you define "one of the greats".

His in-ring work isn't great. It's good enough but obviously not up there with a lot of other wrestlers.

His mic skills are some of the best of this era. He's one of the greatest heels ever.

Let's give him a few more years before he can be properly rated.

 

[Dolph Ziggler's Gimmick]

Ric Flair wasn't a great in-ring worker? Really?

I guess it's the cool thing to do to rip on him now but throughout the eighties he was generally seen as one of the best-if not the best-worker in all of wrestling. He owned match of the year and wrestler of the year awards and his bouts with Steamboat and Windham are among the best matches I've ever witnessed. Ric Flair is credited with eight five star matches, while the WWF only has five in their entire history. He made every wrestler he faced, even the lowest of jobbers, look like a million bucks. There is a huge list of guys, from Lex Luger to Kerry Von Erich to Nikita Koloff to Ronnie Garvin to Sting who never looked better than when facing the Nature Boy. Flair made guys like Ricky Morton and Hawk look like potential world champions. He was the genesis of the now-tired trope of being able to carry on an entertaining match with a broom. To me, saying Ric Flair wasn't a good worker is laughable.

Disagree with Savage being on that list as well, but I'll spare you all another diatribe.

I also don't get it. Even WWF only fans would have seen Ric's work which was stellar, especially considering he was nearing his mid 40s and the product's direction at the time.

WrestleMania 8 was a good example, Flair worked great against Savage, it would have easily been match of night had it not been for Bret/Piper.