Armed militia to guard church during Quran burning.

[Vintage Nick]

Source of news story: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/24/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html

If this pastor was so terrified from threats he received, then maybe he shouldn't have planned to burn the Islamic equivalent to the Christian Bible and tell people to "take a stand against Islam." I feel this "pastor's" wording is very off. I would have been fine if he didn't want to set holy books on fire and encouraged people to take a stand against radical Islam, but telling people to stand against Islam in general and burn the Quran in my opinion is a huge slap in the face to the non-violent Islamic people and not very Christian-like.

The addition of about 500-2,000 armed militia also concerns me. It makes me feel more than sure that a skirmish can break out resulting in deaths. To me, this just reeks of a Waco-like incident. (click the link if you do not know anything about the Waco incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege) It would be a real damn shame if something like that were to happen again. Innocent lives and blood being spilled because of radical religious differences. Radical religiousness, in my humble opinion, will be the death of all of us.

Discuss.

 

[Барбоса]

Total hypocrisy as always from these morons who claim that Christianity needs protection.

Making "efforts to put an end to the notion that Islam is a peaceful religion" by publicly inciting its adherents by burning its most holy scriptures and employing a extremist militia to protect it...

Having 500 armed lunatics around will attract a necessary response from the authorities to protect the public making this a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

Seriously?

Why would someone who claims to be apart of a religious faith which promotes moral and ethical equality want to burn something that promotes the same properties but is apart of a different faith?.

That Priest must be the dumbest individual on the face of this planet to do something so incohearent that it promotes the acts of terrorism that he lays claim to shunning.

This is not Hyporcracy it's idiocracy in my book.

Islam is the seond biggest religion on earth following Christianity as the first, what is being done here by individuals is adhearing segregation, religion was never made to divide, religion was made to give us all hope in order to establish a connection between us and god, to bring forth faith and hope that it will allow us all to stay on the straight and narrow.

Has this person ever read the Quran?, probably not but takes pride in burning it because he believes that Muslims are apart of terrorism.

Religious conflict needs to stop and tolerance needs to be promoted more often.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

9 years ago!!

And STILL they want to provoke the muslims in this way! It is a slap in the face to those muslims who practise Islam and stay away from voilence, but THIS is going to set everything off! Don't they know about previous incidents that have happened in Denmark and Holland?

And now they wanna remember those who died in the Sept. 11th attack by burning the Holy Book of Islam?

Do they really think the victims would want to be remembered by starting more voilence than has already taken place?

There was muslim workers that died that day as well..

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here (in a way, seeing as I kind of agree with what I'm about to type here), they shouldn't even be receiving veiled threats from any kind of religion, in the name of freedom, they should be allowed to burn this book as much as they want. If people of this faith feel the need to react violently, then THEY'RE the ones in the wrong, in the eyes of the law. The first amendment allows people to burn as many books as they want, but it doesn't grant people the right to react violently without any legal ramifications.

That being said, these Christians are fucking idiots.

 

[Dhays9]

Wow and people wonder why the rest of the world hates us. I understand freedom of speech but he is suppose to be a member of the clergy and a member of the clergy should be reverant. I feel it shouldn't matter how someone is reverant as long as it does not hurt other people.

I have pull out two of my favorite quotes:

By Richard Dawkins:

"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that."

By Stephen F. Roberts:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

I am in no way trying to flame religion. Even though I do not believe in a so called "god" I do believe in there being something. I just don't think it is what everyone else does.

 

[Razor]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here (in a way, seeing as I kind of agree with what I'm about to type here), they shouldn't even be receiving veiled threats from any kind of religion, in the name of freedom, they should be allowed to burn this book as much as they want.

People tend to get a little heated over their holiest book in all of time being burned in an effort to get everyone in the world to join a "International Burn a Quran Day".

Of course, the veiled threats are uncalled for....but at least they're focusing their rage on the people responsible. As opposed to, you know, blaming all Muslims for the actions of 12 psychopaths.

If people of this faith feel the need to react violently, then THEY'RE the ones in the wrong, in the eyes of the law. The first amendment allows people to burn as many books as they want, but it doesn't grant people the right to react violently without any legal ramifications.

Did anyone say the Muslims would be legally covered if they decided to go and attack the book burning? Please, bringing up red herrings left and right. Next you're going to bring up the fucking Magna Carta for some reason.

Now what will be awkward is when the Muslims counter-protest, and the armed vigilante group shoots into them. That's when we get our true racists to fly their colors.

That being said, these Christians are fucking idiots.

True.

Now, on to the actual article.

------------------


LULZ. Lulz. Lol. Lawl. Oh my god, fucking ******ed.

First of all, is CNN actually trusting these idiots when they say the FBI just told them about death threats and other terror attempts? No mention of CNN actually, you know, calling the FBI or requesting an official statement on the issue. They didn't even request confirmation. At least if the FBI refused to comment we'd have something to go on. What the fuck kind of fact checking is this shit?

Secondly, really? In an effort to prove that his religion is the peaceful religion he's going to burn another Abrahamaic (and hence essentially religious cousins) religion's holiest book and stand their with 500-2,000 armed men to ward off any counter-protesters? What kind of logic does that make? Fucking for real?

Seriously. Is this just CNN bullshitting us? This can't be fucking serious. In an effort to prove how violent Islam is, a Christian group is trying to bait them into a violent confrontation while standing behind 2,000 armed gunmen?

It's about as effective as showing everyone how charitable I am by using a charity as a tax shelter. This is beyond ******ed.

 

[LigerBomb]

These upcoming actions are anathema to modern Christian thinking/doctrine. I just hope between then and now some level of sense and reason can be brought to this mess.
At the very least I believe it the responsibility of all Christian denominations—and any other group or organization religious or otherwise—to very publicly admonish/denounce these proposed actions, the people in support of them, and the entire concept behind an "International Burn a Quran Day". That the event is to take place on 9-11 just adds another layer of perversion to this already grotesque display of intolerance and outright hate.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

People tend to get a little heated over their holiest book in all of time being burned in an effort to get everyone in the world to join a "International Burn a Quran Day".

Of course, the veiled threats are uncalled for....but at least they're focusing their rage on the people responsible. As opposed to, you know, blaming all Muslims for the actions of 12 psychopaths.

Did anyone say the Muslims would be legally covered if they decided to go and attack the book burning? Please, bringing up red herrings left and right. Next you're going to bring up the fucking Magna Carta for some reason.

Please don't misunderstand the point of my post. I totally agree with you. These Christians are probably more evil than the Muslims who destroyed the Twin Towers, and the ONLY reason they're doing this is to provoke a violent reaction from the Muslims. That way they can use the law and twist it to promote Christian values.

The point is, the Muslims need to simply not fall for it.

Now what will be awkward is when the Muslims counter-protest, and the armed vigilante group shoots into them. That's when we get our true racists to fly their colors.

I don't think it'll be a problem unless a few of them start throwing shit, or even shooting.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

People tend to get a little heated over their holiest book in all of time being burned in an effort to get everyone in the world to join a "International Burn a Quran Day".

Of course, the veiled threats are uncalled for....but at least they're focusing their rage on the people responsible. As opposed to, you know, blaming all Muslims for the actions of 12 psychopaths.

Did anyone say the Muslims would be legally covered if they decided to go and attack the book burning? Please, bringing up red herrings left and right. Next you're going to bring up the fucking Magna Carta for some reason.

Please don't misunderstand the point of my post. I totally agree with you. These Christians are probably more evil than the Muslims who destroyed the Twin Towers, and the ONLY reason they're doing this is to provoke a violent reaction from the Muslims. That way they can use the law and twist it to promote Christian values.

The point is, the Muslims need to simply not fall for it.

Now what will be awkward is when the Muslims counter-protest, and the armed vigilante group shoots into them. That's when we get our true racists to fly their colors.

I don't think it'll be a problem unless a few of them start throwing shit, or even shooting.

 

[newc868]

The way I see it these Christian douchebags are just baiting and trolling with the 'International Burn Quran Day'. If they get attacked in anyway then all they've proved is - if you burn a religious book then you will get attacked.

Having the 'Right Wing Extreme' form a 500-2000 civilian militia is them just doubling the bait.

 

[One to Remember]

9 years ago!!

And STILL they want to provoke the muslims in this way! It is a slap in the face to those muslims who practise Islam and stay away from voilence, but THIS is going to set everything off! Don't they know about previous incidents that have happened in Denmark and Holland?

this is not Denmark or Holland. Yea we are members of the Western World but we have very different mentalities. No one here really cares about showing Muhammed. In Europe tolerance is taken to heart so strongly it destroys an individuals last line of defense. I think if muslims attack the church they might bite off more then they can chew, but either way Americans will give them something to chew on. Thats just the American way. The irony of it is the moderate muslims not being vocal enough made this easy for the church. The even worser irony is the fact that the moderate muslums will need to take a page out of this churches play book to protect themselves and thier own children. How do you know this is even a response to 9/11 or the Ground 0 mosque controversy? For all we know this could be some attempt to rile up the Copts in Egypt or the Assyrians of Iraq? There are historical Christians in the Middle East that predate the muslims, yet they aren't spoken of. In Egypt Copt abuse is condoned by police. If this Qu'ran burning allows them to assert themselves is it not a plus? What the church is doing is legal, yet Copts in Egypt have their legal rights undermined daily.

And now they wanna remember those who died in the Sept. 11th attack by burning the Holy Book of Islam?

There is more evidence and disputes over theocratical offense being promoted by the Koran then in the Bible. That does not help the Koran..

There was muslim workers that died that day as well..

It doesn't help that Muslim attackers go hard and when they do Muslims are usually the victims. It could be argued by some Muslims that the Muslims in the WTC or who are not extreme are not "legit Muslims.."

 

[Барбоса]

The irony of it is the moderate muslims not being vocal enough made this easy for the church. The even worser irony is the fact that the moderate muslums will need to take a page out of this churches play book to protect themselves and thier own children.

This is one of the major pitfalls of America's pride in her right to freedom of speech. It has been drilled into the mindset of so many generations and taken advantage of so much in the legal system that even when such sectarian hate is preached, the First Amendment is used to protect the persecutors as much as the persecuted.

That you suggest that a peaceful, religious group like the vast majority of American Muslims would have to resort to dirty tactics to get protection is a damning indictment of western civilisation.

For all we know this could be some attempt to rile up the Copts in Egypt or the Assyrians of Iraq? There are historical Christians in the Middle East that predate the muslims, yet they aren't spoken of. In Egypt Copt abuse is condoned by police. If this Qu'ran burning allows them to assert themselves is it not a plus? What the church is doing is legal, yet Copts in Egypt have their legal rights undermined daily.

So this is not a sectarian attempt to provoke a response and gain press attention but an attempt to raise awareness for the downtrodden Christian minorities in Muslim countries?

An interesting proposition to be sure. But I guarantee that militant, brainless and hypocritical Christians like these have never heard of a Coptic or Monophysite Christian or their plight.

There is more evidence and disputes over theocratical offense being promoted by the Koran then in the Bible.

Hence the ridiculousness of lumping all of Islam together. It is as denominational as Christianity. Sunnis and Shi'ites have a far more deeply rooted and older division than Protestants and Catholics and even Catholics and Greek Orthodox.

It could be argued by some Muslims that the Muslims in the WTC or who are not extreme are not "legit Muslims.."

I have heard many Christian evangelists railing against their fellow Christians for not being "legitimate."

 

[One to Remember]

This is one of the major pitfalls of America's pride in her right to freedom of speech. It has been drilled into the mindset of so many generations and taken advantage of so much in the legal system that even when such sectarian hate is preached, the First Amendment is used to protect the persecutors as much as the persecuted.

its designed to provide a means of which people can express opinions without fear of being dragged to a kangaroo court to face a show trial, challenged to a duel, imprisoned, persecuted, or made the main target of a pogrom.. I don't think the least radical of founding fathers could express his views in England without falling prey to the chopping block. Yet a reasonable observer would at least concede that from an Englander's perspective he founding father was wrong. The first amendment is to protect words from their only known predator, violence..

That you suggest that a peaceful, religious group like the vast majority of American Muslims would have to resort to dirty tactics to get protection is a damning indictment of western civilisation.

The mosque can't be stopped,the burning cant be stopped, a festival celebrating the fall of Constantinople could not be stopped. Even if the Muslims use not to push the limits its a moot point because they could if they wanted too.

So this is not a sectarian attempt to provoke a response and gain press attention but an attempt to raise awareness for the downtrodden Christian minorities in Muslim countries?

It could be somewhat maybe. Americans do respond to things outside of America. I think its dangerous to take opinions and get riled up over things outside of ones jurisdiction but American churches aren't barred through some etiquette or gentleman's agreement not to react to issues facing their counterparts in the Netherlands for example and they don't have to be silent about the acts of muslims abroad just because their Muslim American counterparts are not belligerent or hostile. Its not we deal with out muslim, dutch guy deals with his muslims. Thats such tribalism.

An interesting proposition to be sure. But I guarantee that militant, brainless and hypocritical Christians like these have never heard of a Coptic or Monophysite Christian or their plight.

well i have and i have the right to weigh in on it without having to be Egyptian or having to go to egypt or live in egypt. Its my business not because i paint fractured groups with a broad brush but because its a globalized world now.

Hence the ridiculousness of lumping all of Islam together. It is as denominational as Christianity. Sunnis and Shi'ites have a far more deeply rooted and older division than Protestants and Catholics and even Catholics and Greek Orthodox.

Sunnis and Shi'ites disagree over who succeeded Muhammed. Eitherway you lead me to dosome research where i learned a few things. 90 percent of muslims are sunni. Sunni is divided into four schools, hanafi is the most liberal, and its followers are in areas formally under the domain of the Ottomans.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Madhhab_Map2.png
that link right there shows the map of where the different beliefs are prevalent. You allowed me to learn something knew. However the bad thing is the hanabali sect is most prevalent in the places the U.S. is dealing with ad has dealt with historically. This will lead to tunnel vision fueled conflict.

I have heard many Christian evangelists railing against their fellow Christians for not being "legitimate."

unless your preaching to an afrikan in a hut or some inca all that fast talking will come up short real quick. The problem with trying to punish people with the bible is the fact that the punish can easily read the bible and see that at most times the passage or belief they quote is not present. Furthermore the bible never provides a method of establishing jurisdiction over any "infidels."
In otherwords even when the bible offers condemnation it offers no authority to man or holy deputizing to clerics to enforce it. Its like killing guys on death row and arguing in your own murder trial, "uh they were sentenced to be killed, i thought i could kill them." Even when one has under our understandings of the bible committed acts in life sentencing them to hell we still aren't allowed to hasten their trip to the under world. Those who have been persecuted by men holding the bible have never read the bible..

 

[Барбоса]

Either way you lead me to do some research where i learned a few things.

I'm glad that I inspired you to look into what is a greatly misunderstood religion. Pity there are not more people willing to do the same. They might be surprised to find out that Islam was a faith dedicated to scientific progression, historical preservation (we might not have texts like Aristotle had it not been for them) religious tolerance (Jews actually lived side by side with Muslims mostly peacefully, while Christians were persecuting them) and chivalry before the Crusades forced a more hard-line approach.

Furthermore the bible never provides a method of establishing jurisdiction over any "infidels."

Hence why what this Florida church is doing is arch-hypocrisy. If anything, Christians should be reaching out to Muslims as they share so much in common.

Unfortunately, religion makes fools of even the most intelligent people so what chance have barely-literate racists have.

 

[One to Remember]

I'm glad that I inspired you to look into what is a greatly misunderstood religion. Pity there are not more people willing to do the same. They might be surprised to find out that Islam was a faith dedicated to scientific progression, historical preservation (we might not have texts like Aristotle had it not been for them) religious tolerance (Jews actually lived side by side with Muslims mostly peacefully, while Christians were persecuting them) and chivalry before the Crusades forced a more hard-line approach.

As I said though the map showing where people had the most liberal, conservative, moderate, or unorthodox beliefs showed that the areas that adhere more to strict aggression breeding interpretations are in the areas of the middle east relevant to American life. Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia. A lack of theological rambos is good news, the fact that these areas lacking them are in the likes of Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia, Uzbekistan, and Turkey do us no good realy. We have no connections to any of those countries except Turkey. Ninety-three years ago the U.S. and Turkey were on opposing sides in the First World War, we know haggle with them over air space accomidations and base access. Thats are only dealings with the list of muslim countries not endorsing extremism. With that reality it is only natural Americans get a skewed viewpoint.

Hence why what this Florida church is doing is arch-hypocrisy. If anything, Christians should be reaching out to Muslims as they share so much in common.

Unfortunately, religion makes fools of even the most intelligent people so what chance have barely-literate racists have.

Thats what compounds the situation and misunderstandings so badly. The Muslims sharing these touted common denominators don id in the fight against extremism, sectarian violence, or acts o terrorism. Instead they fall prey to it and then attempt to seek recognition of their predicament. This will lead to a situation where the U.S. must walk on egg shells to get "the right ones" and undoubtedly have to suffer with being bogged down. I think that compounds this complex situation greatly.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Is this going to solve the bad blood between Islam and the world. Will the burning of the holy Quran, amount to anything other than more reason for the non-violent muslims to feel like a different breed of humanity. This is a classic example of somebody bringing the wrath of islam upon themselves, this is like me slapping your mother but not expecting you to retaliate in one way or another. Muslims are a very passionate group about their faith (ask me I'll tell you) so seeing things like this makes us think that we are not accepted in today's society.