Another Student Denied Diploma

[Poop Master Flex]

I have no idea who would be offended by the word "hell", especially in the context she used it in but whatever.

Its pure idiocy on all sides. It would be pretty easy to say hell instead of heck, lord knows I've done it but I digress. If it wasn't approved and was a big deal to the school just swallow your pride even if you aren't sorry, take the 5 minutes to write an apology and be done with it.

I wouldn't be sorry either but this isn't a battle worth fighting so why fight it?

 

[hatehabsforever]

I don't see what the big deal is here. She supposedly made an honest mistake and offended people. Apologize for offending those who were put out, as trivial as it may seem, get your diploma, and move on. She worked so hard to get her diploma, and it's not correct to suggest it is meaningless and she doesn't need it. In a stubborn battle of wills here, she'll likely lose and not get the diploma she earned. Take a minute, smooth the ruffled feathers, and get on with life.

 

[Loveless]

I wouldn't be sorry either but this isn't a battle worth fighting so why fight it?

Personal integrity. Why pander to people who need to take a stick out of their ass?

 

[Slyfox696]

She was graduating from high school and had accomplished a lot of goals while doing them better than any one of her classmates. After all that she's at a celebration for her and her friends and she was excited. That's my guess.

I meant why did she change the word from hell to heck.

Appeasing the censors? Some people don't like being told what they can and can't say.

Tough? I don't like being told I can only drive 70 MPH on the Interstate. But I do it anyways.

There's nothing you can say to justify her not writing an apology.

 

[shattered dreams]

There's nothing you can say to justify her not writing an apology.

Doesn't want to, lives in a free country. /justified

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Personal integrity. Why pander to people who need to take a stick out of their ass?

2 reasons:

1) Its the world we live in. Its stupid but its the same as apologizing for something dumb at work. You won't remember it the next day, it doesn't rock the boat and makes life easier all around. The system sucks but it is what it is.

2) It's not worth it. Some things yes I agree its best to stand up for your beliefs but this isn't one of those situations. It takes 5 minutes out of your life to apologize, you get your diploma and in a week you probably forget all about it. It's one of those cases where its best in the long run to just move on with your life.

 

[klunderbunker]

I meant why did she change the word from hell to heck.

That's what I meant. I don't think she did it on purpose. She was using a line from a movie and my guess is she got caught up in the moment. It was a slip of the tongue and a very minor one at that. That would be like saying (kind of at least) that when you slip up and say "you're" instead of "your" that you need to write out a written apology. It really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Loveless]

1) Its the world we live in.

It doesn't have to be and you don't have to accept it.

2) It's not worth it.

Personal opinion I guess. I've never been able to back down on anything when I believe I'm right, regardless of the size of the issue. It has cost me but self respect and personal integrity are worth more to me than money or friends.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

She's hot.

Felt it needed to be said.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

It doesn't have to be and you don't have to accept it.

No you don't but it makes it a lot more difficult getting through day to day life.

Personal opinion I guess. I've never been able to back down on anything when I believe I'm right, regardless of the size of the issue. It has cost me but self respect and personal integrity are worth more to me than money or friends.

I feel the same way but this is one of those issues where it's not a "who's right and who's" wrong situation. She doesn't feel she's wrong, I get that but someone else obviously does or else this wouldn't be an issue. Whether she's right or wrong depends on which side of the fence you are on. I always believe in 2 specific sayings in situations like this:

1) Pick your battles
2) Bend but don't bend over

Onto those 2 points this isn't a battle that's worth fighting for, it really isn't, so just do it and move on with your life. Also you don't have to admit you are wrong just meet them half way. Say something like this:

"When I gave my speech my tongue slipped and I said a word that wasn't approved by the school. It wasn't on purpose, I didn't think it was a big deal but I understand that I offended some people by saying it and I apologize to anyone I offended as it wasn't my intent".

That took 2 minutes to write, it in no way compromised my integrity and self respect and it worked out for me in the end so I can move on with my life. I think its a much better route to go in the long run.

 

[Gelgarin]

When it becomes incapable of empathy or compromise, personal integrity is one of the most disgusting traits a person can be unfortunate enough to have.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I would probably do what was asked of me but she has now turned this in to some fame and notoriety. At this point I would milk it for all it is worth.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Plus I heard what she really said was that she was Kobe Bryant and all of her exams were white women in Colorado hotel rooms.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I have no idea who would be offended by the word "hell", especially in the context she used it in but whatever.

This is the part I'm struggling to get past to be honest. At the time, there seemed to be no reaction but a positive one for her speech. She went to receive her diploma and it was withheld although there doesn't seem to be any clue as to who was offended by a word that is commonly used and heard by old people, young people and everyone in between through religious and theological doctrine.

Both sides taking a slice of humble pie would sort the mess out, but this just seems like a heck of a way to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

 

[justinsayne]

Write the apology letter, then after they give you the diploma write another letter telling them how you truly feel about the whole stupid situation, a "Fuck You Letter" if you will.

 

[Tastycles]

America, lol.

 

[Davi323]

I only have one line of questioning: what is the school's official policy on the use of language?

Basically, I want to know if the use of the word "hell" is specifically banned at that high school? Does their school library contain books that have the word in it? Does their English curriculum include books that contain the word?

If they have a specific policy against the use of bad language, and have specifically listed hell as one of those words banned, AND they have ensured that students are not exposed to the word under any circumstances as part of their education, then obviously she needs to write the apology for violating clearly defined school rules.

However, if there is no specific rule against the use of such word, or it is found in educational material found at the school, she should claim that she learned the word by reading whatever educational material at the school contains the word, point out the school's hypocrisy in regards to the double standard, and rightly tell the principal to go fuck himself.

 

[Danger Burger]

tell the principal to go fuck himself.

You seem to have missed the problem this all started with!

 

[shattered dreams]

When it becomes incapable of empathy or compromise, personal integrity is one of the most disgusting traits a person can be unfortunate enough to have.

There is some truth in that. Just like it is true that people blindly bending to the whims of authority because it is easier can cause issues as well. I don't think either absolute describes this specific situation which is why it makes for an interesting discussion. In this specific situation we don't even have any evidence anyone was actually offended. When we do then some of you might actually have more ground to stand on than you do now.

 

[Davi323]

You seem to have missed the problem this all started with!

No I didn't. At what point did you not realize I chose to use much fouler language than she did quite intentionally? If there is no policy, than she didn't break any rules. If she didn't break any rules, then the principal has no standing whatsoever to withhold her diploma, and is acting compketely arbitrarily, out of spite. If that is the case, than he is being a douchebag, and telling him to go fuck himself seems an appropriate response. She has absolutely no need for the diploma, it isn't as if she didn't graduate. It's called leverage. The principal has none. She knows it, he knows it, everyone knows it. Therefore he is just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, not out of any actual sense of being in the right.

But again, this position assumes that there is no specific school policy towards the use of that word. If there is such a policy, and she violated it, then the principal has a right to withhold it until an apology is issued. Since the word would have been uttered at an official school function, he would clearly have the authority to determine an appropriate punishment, even to an out going graduate, and withholding the physical diploma, as lame and pathetic as it is, even as nothing but a completely symbolic geture, is about the only thing he can realistically do.

I see both sides of this, but without knowing what the school's position on language is, and whether or not the girl actually broke any rules or not, I can't completely side with either. I agree with KB that this is just silly, but I think Sly makes a good point too. If she broke the rules, she should apologize.

 

[Danger Burger]

No I didn't. At what point did you not realize I chose to use much fouler language than she did quite intentionally? If there is no policy, than she didn't break any rules. If she didn't break any rules, then the principal has no standing whatsoever to withhold her diploma, and is acting compketely arbitrarily, out of spite. If that is the case, than he is being a douchebag, and telling him to go fuck himself seems an appropriate response. She has absolutely no need for the diploma, it isn't as if she didn't graduate. It's called leverage. The principal has none. She knows it, he knows it, everyone knows it. Therefore he is just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, not out of any actual sense of being in the right.

But again, this position assumes that there is no specific school policy towards the use of that word. If there is such a policy, and she violated it, then the principal has a right to withhold it until an apology is issued. Since the word would have been uttered at an official school function, he would clearly have the authority to determine an appropriate punishment, even to an out going graduate, and withholding the physical diploma, as lame and pathetic as it is, even as nothing but a completely symbolic geture, is about the only thing he can realistically do.

I see both sides of this, but without knowing what the school's position on language is, and whether or not the girl actually broke any rules or not, I can't completely side with either. I agree with KB that this is just silly, but I think Sly makes a good point too. If she broke the rules, she should apologize.

Joke /jōk/
Noun:
A thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline.

 

[Slyfox696]

Doesn't want to, lives in a free country. /justified

That's not justification, that's excuse making.

But you are right about one thing, she lives in a free country and doesn't HAVE to write an apology. She just isn't going to get her diploma if she doesn't.

But she should apologize, at the very least, an oral apology to someone. I've been in a similar situation, giving a beginning of the year technology speech in front of all the teachers, and for some reason brought up wild animals and said something to the effect of "wild pigs, wild dogs, wild turkey", not even thinking about the alcoholic drink. Once every got done laughing at me, someone explained what I said, and I apologized right there. I don't think anyone was offended, but if they were, I apologized anyway. Not a big deal.

That's what I meant. I don't think she did it on purpose. She was using a line from a movie and my guess is she got caught up in the moment. It was a slip of the tongue and a very minor one at that. That would be like saying (kind of at least) that when you slip up and say "you're" instead of "your" that you need to write out a written apology. It really isn't that big of a deal.

No no, you're misunderstanding.

You're trying to say that there is nothing wrong with saying hell. I'm saying that if there is nothing wrong with saying hell, then why did she change it from hell to heck in the speech she turned into the school?

Obviously she knew it was wrong. She said something inappropriate, even if it was an accident/mistake. People make mistakes all the time, apologize for it this time. It's really not a big deal.

Personal opinion I guess. I've never been able to back down on anything when I believe I'm right, regardless of the size of the issue. It has cost me but self respect and personal integrity are worth more to me than money or friends.

How was she right? She turned in a script to the school, and then deviated from that script. In the course of deviating from the script, she said something which offended people.

In what way is she in the right?

I only have one line of questioning: what is the school's official policy on the use of language?

Basically, I want to know if the use of the word "hell" is specifically banned at that high school? Does their school library contain books that have the word in it? Does their English curriculum include books that contain the word?

If they have a specific policy against the use of bad language, and have specifically listed hell as one of those words banned, AND they have ensured that students are not exposed to the word under any circumstances as part of their education, then obviously she needs to write the apology for violating clearly defined school rules.

However, if there is no specific rule against the use of such word, or it is found in educational material found at the school, she should claim that she learned the word by reading whatever educational material at the school contains the word, point out the school's hypocrisy in regards to the double standard, and rightly tell the principal to go fuck himself.

Most schools will have a rule which says no inappropriate comments, and may even have a moral clause for students.

 

[klunderbunker]

No no, you're misunderstanding.

You're trying to say that there is nothing wrong with saying hell. I'm saying that if there is nothing wrong with saying hell, then why did she change it from hell to heck in the speech she turned into the school?

Obviously she knew it was wrong. She said something inappropriate, even if it was an accident/mistake. People make mistakes all the time, apologize for it this time. It's really not a big deal.

I'm saying it's a combination of both. There's nothing wrong with saying hell. She probably did slip up and meant to say heck and said hell. If that's the case, I don't think she needs to make a written apology. She's done every single thing that the school has required to graduate and receive a diploma and she did it better than anyone else in her class. In a word, she was perfect. Now they're changing the rules and saying she has to do something else because they didn't like something she said. That to me isn't fair and there is no reason she should have to do it.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm saying it's a combination of both. There's nothing wrong with saying hell.

Says you. Obviously some people disagree.

She probably did slip up and meant to say heck and said hell. If that's the case, I don't think she needs to make a written apology.

I don't understand why the school is insisting on that either, but they are.

She's done every single thing that the school has required to graduate and receive a diploma and she did it better than anyone else in her class.

Technically, this isn't true. She completed all the course work, but she hasn't served her punishment for her inappropriate comments. The graduation ceremony itself does not mean the student has graduated. For example, at my school, the seniors aren't technically graduates until the very end of the ceremony, when the Superintendent says "I now present to you the graduates of the class of 2012". Or something to that effect.

I understand what you're saying, but technically, you are not correct.

Now they're changing the rules

If they have a rule against inappropriate comments, then they are not changing the rules, but rather upholding them.

That to me isn't fair and there is no reason she should have to do it.

As I already said, this is a case of two separate parties being stubborn. But just as the school is being stubborn by insisting on an apology, she is being equally stubborn for not doing something which takes 30 seconds in order to make up for the mistake she made.

And she did make a mistake. No one is denying that. Pay the punishment for your mistake, and move on.

 

[klunderbunker]

Says you. Obviously some people disagree.

I'd go on a short limb and say they're a minority.

I don't understand why the school is insisting on that either, but they are.

Then they can keep their diploma.

Technically, this isn't true. She completed all the course work, but she hasn't served her punishment for her inappropriate comments.

If her grades have been posted and listed as final, meaning she's received the credits for the classes, wouldn't she have finished everything required?

If they have a rule against inappropriate rules, then they are not changing the rules, but rather upholding them.

If that's the case, everything I say can be disregarded because that would be absolutely correct and she would have no real case.

As I already said, this is a case of two separate parties being stubborn. But just as the school is being stubborn by insisting on an apology, she is being equally stubborn for not doing something which takes 30 seconds in order to make up for the mistake she made.

And she did make a mistake. No one is denying that. Pay the punishment for your mistake, and move on.

I get that and agree with it to an extent. My point is that this is excessive punishment for a slip of the tongue which may not have even broken an official rule. Assuming there is no rule about profanity, all she did was as an adult, say something that isn't illegal and she's being punished because someone didn't like it. To require a written apology for something like that is unfair and going overboard with the punishment in my eyes. Assuming it wasn't a student, I have no sympathy for someone in the audience. It wasn't about them. That ceremony was for the students.