2014 NBA Playoffs

[Paul Bunyan's Axe]

I'm tired of people who are holding this series against LeBron. Really, he's done everything in his power to help win this series. The reason he's not? Because, simply, for this series, the Spurs have been the better team. The only thing you could possibly hold against Lebron is that even when they're losing, he's still playing team basketball, and not trying to put it all on himself. If you really want to consider being a good team mate a bad thing.

And, if this is the last we see of "The Big 3" people might look at this, see that they 2 finals out of four appearances, and think of it as a "failure". To me, I still look at this team and think about the dominance they've had over these four years. Making the finals all four years together is an incredible accomplishment, but because they most likely have lost two of them (I'm not buying that this series is over until it's really over) people will look at it as a failure.

 

[Slash-LN]

If people look at that as a failure then they're ridiculous.
Sure they lost a couple but wining two out of four isn't a bad thing.
Had they lost all four I could see a decent argument that they just weren't good enough to pull it out.
That's not the case though.

 

[Megatron]

Wade's aged really fast and Bosh has been terrible this series. Plus they haven't had good 3 point shooting at all. Series will be over in about an hour.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

SPURS!!!!!

 

[Slyfox696]

The Heat just ran into a buzzsaw. People will look at the last three games and completely forget about Games 1 and 2, which were very tightly contested (and Game 1 could easily have gone to Miami had LeBron not gotten cramps...what difference it would have made in this series too).

For whatever reason, the Heat hit a slump at the exact time the Spurs got hot. It happens in sports, just sucks when it happens in a Finals series.

I'm tired of people who are holding this series against LeBron. Really, he's done everything in his power to help win this series.

Exactly. People seem to forget basketball is a team sport.

"But Jordan wouldn't have lost". Bullshit. You can't tell me if you replace LeBron's production with Michael Jordan, the series would have changed at all.

The reason he's not? Because, simply, for this series, the Spurs have been the better team.

And the MUCH better coached team. To borrow a phrase I absolutely detest, "Popavich has been playing chess while Spoelstra has been playing checkers".

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm hardly a LeBron fan but he had no help out there tonight. Three players on the Heat had double digit points and LeBron was the only one to break 14. Back in the 60s LSU tried to have Pete Marivich beat UK on his own. Marivich would score 60 on us but the rest of his team would total about 20. UK never lost to LSU in those years. One player vs. a team isn't going to work. It's never worked and it doesn't now.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm hardly a LeBron fan but he had no help out there tonight. Three players on the Heat had double digit points and LeBron was the only one to break 14. Back in the 60s LSU tried to have Pete Marivich beat UK on his own. Marivich would score 60 on us but the rest of his team would total about 20. UK never lost to LSU in those years. One player vs. a team isn't going to work. It's never worked and it doesn't now.

What also doesn't make sense is why the Heat continued to switch all screens when the Spurs were absolutely killing them.

 

[Paul Bunyan's Axe]

Congrats to the Spurs. A true class organization from top to bottom. It's kind of heart-warming watching these guys celebrate. They are, in any sense of the word, a TEAM. Everyone on their roster has performed this series, and served a role. They all deserve to be able to call themselves champions.

And to the Heat, I'll just put it simply; the best player (by far) lost to the best team (by far). Lebron James has nothing to ashamed. He worked his ass off to try to get this left-for-dead team to even compete in these games. And, as Sly said, if you replace in Lebron in this series with Jordan in his prime, it's the same result. There is no one man who could have helped the Heat win this series.

 

[klunderbunker]

Like you said: chess to checkers. Another old statement: Bear Bryant could take your team and beat him and take his team and beat yours. I think that would hope true for Pop but no chance with Spoelstra.

 

[Paul Bunyan's Axe]

Also, I think it's fairly sad that there are plenty of people happy about this series because one player (LeBron) didn't win, as oposed to being happy that a team won.

 

[Alastor]

What else could Spol have done when his players don't show up? His team's identity for the past 3 years was always Lebron + 3 point threat and constant switching and blitzing on defence to create turnovers.

His only fault would be him not trusting Beasley enough in the finals. But can you blame him for not trusting someone like that? The loss of Mike Miller and the decline of Shane Battier this year really shorten his rotation options. Ray Allen was forced into extended minutes and really created a lot of gaps in defence.

His team was top heavy and two out of three of his superstar did not perform up to expectations. Other than to ride on Lebron what more could he have done? They needed more athleticism but both his PGs disappeared in the series.

I really hate Lebron fans trying to paint Spol as a terrible coach to defend Lebron every time the Heat loses. The better team won. Doesn't mean the coach is terrible.

 

[Slyfox696]

Also, I think it's fairly sad that there are plenty of people happy about this series because one player (LeBron) didn't win, as oposed to being happy that a team won.

Colin Cowherd made a great point about this the other day.

Michael Jordan is one of the most beloved athletes ever, even today. Even today, Michael Jordan is one of the most popular athletes. And LeBron James threatens Jordan's legacy. LeBron James is a legitimate threat to unseat Jordan, in popular opinion, as the greatest ever. So people bash LeBron for every little thing, regardless of how rational it is.

 

[Alastor]

Colin Cowherd made a great point about this the other day.

Michael Jordan is one of the most beloved athletes ever, even today. Even today, Michael Jordan is one of the most popular athletes. And LeBron James threatens Jordan's legacy. LeBron James is a legitimate threat to unseat Jordan, in popular opinion, as the greatest ever. So people bash LeBron for every little thing, regardless of how rational it is.

That's ridiculous. That's like saying people were bashing Jordan because Magic Johnson was one of the most beloved basketball player and Jordan was threatening his legacy.

Dominant players draw bandwagon fans and also haters. Always have been, always will be. The issue is when these fans try to hype up their favourite players in comparison to past greats and get butt hurt when not everyone agree with their opinions. Happened with Kobe, and now with Lebron. We will see Durant fandom going through this in the near future as well.

 

[Big Sexy]

Best "team" performance in a finals series since the Detroit Pistons in 2004. Kawhi Leonard has a very bright future.

 

[Alastor]

Kawhi has the same skill set as Paul George, but on a better team which don't require him to carry the team's offence. Will be interesting how he develops when he starts to become the first or 2nd option once Duncan and Parker are gone.

 

[Paul Bunyan's Axe]

What else could Spol have done when his players don't show up? His team's identity for the past 3 years was always Lebron + 3 point threat and constant switching and blitzing on defence to create turnovers.

His only fault would be him not trusting Beasley enough in the finals. But can you blame him for not trusting someone like that? The loss of Mike Miller and the decline of Shane Battier this year really shorten his rotation options. Ray Allen was forced into extended minutes and really created a lot of gaps in defence.

His team was top heavy and two out of three of his superstar did not perform up to expectations. Other than to ride on Lebron what more could he have done? They needed more athleticism but both his PGs disappeared in the series.

I really hate Lebron fans trying to paint Spol as a terrible coach to defend Lebron every time the Heat loses. The better team won. Doesn't mean the coach is terrible.

Couldn't agree here more. Spo is a very good coach. Not a great coach, but a good one. Hes very crafty and creative. What he's done all throughout this season, is try to make up for the lack of good defenders/rebounds with his defensive scheme. Switching a lot, creating confusion, etc. Hes a very under rated coach. The Spurs, however, play to expose that scheme with making extra passes, and playing unselfish basketball.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Coming from a Jordan supporter only good comes from Lebron challenging Jordan's legacy, it brings in more fans and makes things a lot more interesting.

I've shit on Lebron before but at this point its completely unwarranted to shit on Lebron. The guy straight up willed his team to the title last year and although the Heat were greatly outplayed Lebron played great all series, its just too bad he was on his own for most of the series.

All in all though Tim Duncan is my favorite big man to ever play in the NBA, I'm just happy he got another title and although I wouldn't be nearly as happy if Miami won I get zero joy knowing Lebron lost, there's no reason for it.

 

[JamJam]

I'm really not that a big of LeBron but there's no denying this guy's talent. I immediately saw his greatness on display in that first quarter of today's game. Bosh and Wade have sort of been non-existent almost this entire series. LeBron willed his team to the lone victory they had. Plus, they could've won game 1 had LeBron not had cramps. Overall, I respect LeBron more now after this series. I'll just enjoy watching him play the game because it's honestly pretty fun to watch.

Everything about the Spurs just screams classy to me. The way they've been drafting has been amazing. It's such an amazing story how this team came to be. Now, with Leonard finally showing us how he can play. Very interesting what Alastor said with Kawhi and Paul George having the same skill set. I think I may still think George is a little better but I can see why you'd say that, they're eerily similar.

Great close to an awesome season. Can't wait for next season. Bring it on!

 

[Slyfox696]

What else could Spol have done when his players don't show up?

Well, for one, he could have quit switching every screen, which constantly resulted in matchups like Bosh on Parker and Wade on Duncan. Two, he could run better offense to get better shots (something I've always disliked about his offense). Three, where has Beasley been? Four, play more zone.

So...several things?

His only fault would be him not trusting Beasley enough in the finals. But can you blame him for not trusting someone like that?

Um, yes? Because it's not like the Heat were playing defense anyways, why not let Beasley play?

The loss of Mike Miller and the decline of Shane Battier this year really shorten his rotation options.

Agreed, though Beasley was supposed to help and why hasn't Norris Cole developed?

They needed more athleticism but both his PGs disappeared in the series.

Yup.

I really hate Lebron fans trying to paint Spol as a terrible coach to defend Lebron every time the Heat loses. The better team won. Doesn't mean the coach is terrible.

It does mean he was completely outclassed as a coach. I've said for years Spoelstra has not impressed me with his X's and O's. And I could have told you before the series started Popavich would outcoach Spoelstra, I just had no idea how badly.

Spoelstra is not a bad coach, but he's clearly not on an elite level. Not yet, at least, though he's certainly better now than he was four years ago.

That's ridiculous.

No, it's not. It's completely true. Why is LeBron always being criticized with "well, Jordan would have/would not have done this"?

It's not ridiculous, it's 100% accurate.

That's like saying people were bashing Jordan because Magic Johnson was one of the most beloved basketball player and Jordan was threatening his legacy.

Well, were people bashing Jordan because he wasn't Magic? If not, then you don't have a point.

Dominant players draw bandwagon fans and also haters.

Are you telling me the haters of Tom Brady and Clayton Kershaw even come close to comparing with what LeBron has to deal with on an everyday basis?

But what about Hank Aaron and Roger Maris? When they were threatening Babe Ruth's HR records, weren't they vilified and marginalized (answer: yes). Why? Because Ruth was a beloved legend. Kind of like MJ.

Happened with Kobe, and now with Lebron.

EXACTLY! It DID happen to Kobe...until he was no longer a threat to MJ's position on top. Which happened to occur around the time LeBron came into his prime.

You're fighting a losing battle on this one.

Coming from a Jordan supporter only good comes from Lebron challenging Jordan's legacy, it brings in more fans and makes things a lot more interesting.

I've shit on Lebron before but at this point its completely unwarranted to shit on Lebron. The guy straight up willed his team to the title last year and although the Heat were greatly outplayed Lebron played great all series, its just too bad he was on his own for most of the series.

All in all though Tim Duncan is my favorite big man to ever play in the NBA, I'm just happy he got another title and although I wouldn't be nearly as happy if Miami won I get zero joy knowing Lebron lost, there's no reason for it.

Good post.

 

[Alastor]

Well, for one, he could have quit switching every screen, which constantly resulted in matchups like Bosh on Parker and Wade on Duncan. Two, he could run better offense to get better shots (something I've always disliked about his offense). Three, where has Beasley been? Four, play more zone.

So...several things?

One, Spurs execution forced the issue more. Two, sure he could but his PGs disappeared, his best post player is his best ball handler. Wade was missing a lot of makeable shots. Three, Beasley didn't earn the trust for the WHOLE regular season and you want to claim he could have been the solution? Four, more zone = suicide against Tony Parker?

Um, yes? Because it's not like the Heat were playing defense anyways, why not let Beasley play?

See above.

Agreed, though Beasley was supposed to help and why hasn't Norris Cole developed?

Beasley was a gamble. Just didn't work out. Agree with the lack of development of Norris Cole. But not every team has a Chris Engelland to improve the shooting of great defensive players to make them more of an offensive threat.

It does mean he was completely outclassed as a coach. I've said for years Spoelstra has not impressed me with his X's and O's. And I could have told you before the series started Popavich would outcoach Spoelstra, I just had no idea how badly.

Spoelstra is not a bad coach, but he's clearly not on an elite level. Not yet, at least, though he's certainly better now than he was four years ago.

Then who else is an 'elite' level coach besides Popavich in your opinion if even a two time champion isn't? Was Popavich outcoached 2 years ago against Scott Brooks? How about last year in the final? Do you not see the irony in bashing Spoelstra when comparing him to Pops and then fanboying for Lebron in the Lebron vs MJ argument?

No, it's not. It's completely true. Why is LeBron always being criticized with "well, Jordan would have/would not have done this"?

It's not ridiculous, it's 100% accurate.

Because it sells as both his fans and haters like to bring up the comparison.

Well, were people bashing Jordan because he wasn't Magic? If not, then you don't have a point.

They were bashing him for shooting too much. Sounds familiar with someone being bashed for not shooting enough?

Are you telling me the haters of Tom Brady and Clayton Kershaw even come close to comparing with what LeBron has to deal with on an everyday basis?

But what about Hank Aaron and Roger Maris? When they were threatening Babe Ruth's HR records, weren't they vilified and marginalized (answer: yes). Why? Because Ruth was a beloved legend. Kind of like MJ.

Sorry I don't know all of those names except Brady. NBA is the only American league I watch. I can list examples in tennis of Rafael Nadal/Roger Federer and soccer in Pele/Maradona vs Messi/C. Ronaldo. All have their fair share of haters comparing them to players before them.

EXACTLY! It DID happen to Kobe...until he was no longer a threat to MJ's position on top. Which happened to occur around the time LeBron came into his prime.

You're fighting a losing battle on this one.

Still a ridiculous conspiracy theory. It isn't the fear of diluting MJ's legacy that attract haters. It is simply continued success breed resentment in some fans. Cena is a perfect example. Trying to use MJ's legacy to rationalise the bashing is stupid from BOTH sides of the fence.

 

[#tamale]

Happiness! Pure happiness! After last years 6 and subsequent defeat in 7, I wanted that 5th ring for the Spurs and redemption. Manu redeemed his shitty play from last year, Duncan redeemed the miss, Splitter redeemed the block, Pop redeemed himself, but Kawhi redeemed himself of that free throw miss by going into beast mode and dominating the last 3 games. Kawhi has arrived.

The media and fans do protect Jordans legacy by tearing down the others accomplishments. Jordan was a godsend for the league because of what happened to Magic. Nobody questioned Jordan as much compared to Magic because Magic was a pariah in that era. Now, if anyone comes close to Jordan, his backers try to find any flaw with that player. If Kawhi Leonard were to win 2 more rings, 2 more finals MVPs, and an MVP as well; fans would immediately trash him because Jordan is their god.

And stop being so salty Durant...

 

[Paul Bunyan's Axe]

There's no shame in being out-coached by Greg Popavich - one of the greatest of all time.

 

[Slyfox696]

One, Spurs execution forced the issue more.

...which is a coaching thing. Do you not understand how execution is so often related to coaching, especially in a matchup of elite caliber teams/athletes?

Two, sure he could but his PGs disappeared, his best post player is his best ball handler. Wade was missing a lot of makeable shots.

How is that a defense to a poor offensive system? The Heat score because they have super players/athletes...the Spurs scored because they had a superior system.

Three, Beasley didn't earn the trust for the WHOLE regular season and you want to claim he could have been the solution?

The solution? No, I'm saying you have a team with obviously slow and/or tired legs giving up record breaking FG% and a youthful proven scorer on your team...maybe you ought to give him a shot, because it's not like he's going to hurt you on defense.

Four, more zone = suicide against Tony Parker?

Did you even watch the games? I believe the Spurs set at least 3 different records for shooting (% in a quarter, % in a half and % for Finals since shot clock).

At that point you try SOMETHING besides the same thing you've done which obviously isn't working.

Then who else is an 'elite' level coach besides Popavich in your opinion if even a two time champion isn't?

There have been a few besides Pop (Riley and Jackson immediately come to mind) . But Spoelstra isn't.

Was Popavich outcoached 2 years ago against Scott Brooks?

I don't know, don't remember that series. Losing and being outcoached is not the same thing.

But Spoelstra was outcoached.

How about last year in the final?

No, he was not outcoached.

Do you understand what it means to be outcoached?

Do you not see the irony in bashing Spoelstra when comparing him to Pops and then fanboying for Lebron in the Lebron vs MJ argument?

No?

First of all, I'm not "fanboying" for LeBron, I'm using facts. Second of all, the fact you think LeBron vs. Jordan has anything to do with Spoelstra being outcoached is quite funny.

Because it sells as both his fans and haters like to bring up the comparison.

But WHY do they bring up the comparison? Seriously, this is not hard to understand. They bring up the comparison because LeBron is a threat.

Why do you think Kobe suddenly became "a respected veteran" around the time LeBron became the best player in the league? Your ignorance is blinding right now.

They were bashing him for shooting too much. Sounds familiar with someone being bashed for not shooting enough?

What does that have to do with Magic though? Do you not understand the point?

Sorry I don't know all of those names except Brady.

Take my word for it, when Aaron and Maris were chasing Babe Ruth's record, they endured ridiculous amounts of hatred. And why? Because they were unseating a beloved figure...like Michael.

Still a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

No, it's not. It's quite appropriate.

It isn't the fear of diluting MJ's legacy that attract haters. It is simply continued success breed resentment in some fans.

Then why is Michael Jordan not the most hated man in NBA history? He was incredibly successful, yet mostly loved (outside of those cities he constantly defeated).

You're wrong if you're saying a large part of LeBron criticism doesn't come from people wanting to protect Jordan's legacy.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Michael Jordan is a very unique phenomenon. I agree that often when a new superstar emerges, they often receive some "hate" from nostalgic fans. As is some of the reason James gets hate. However, Michael Jordan has always been one of the most charismatic people to ever to play any sport. He's very easy to like, and even easier to see why he's considered one of, if not the greatest players to ever step foot on the court. James comes off as an entitled little baby most of the time. He's very off putting in most situations, whether it's his demeanor or his actual words. I would liken his personality to someone like Jay Cutler. How many people like him?

Now if you want to get into the greatest of all time argument, my opinion is that James destroyed his opportunity to ever be in that discussion by deciding to go play with, at the time, some of the best players in the league. The truly great players don't live by the "if you can't beat them, join them" mentality (though that's not so literal since the Heat weren't good until they assembled their "superteam"). While Charles Barkley has been known to say and do some of the dumbest stuff on TV, he made a great point with his quote regarding not wanting to play with Magic, Jordan, etc. He wanted to beat them. Now I'm not saying James didn't do anything he wasn't allowed to do. He's free to make his own choices. But our choices do define who we are. His choice made me believe he has no true competitive spirit and definitely not the heart of a champion. I will give him credit though. He has won 2 rings so far because of it.

 

[Slyfox696]

Michael Jordan is a very unique phenomenon. I agree that often when a new superstar emerges, they often receive some "hate" from nostalgic fans. As is some of the reason James gets hate. However, Michael Jordan has always been one of the most charismatic people to ever to play any sport. He's very easy to like, and even easier to see why he's considered one of, if not the greatest players to ever step foot on the court.

Michael Jordan appeals to the little Vince Lombardi in every Little League coach/sports wannabe. Jordan was a take no prisoners, mean, hateful son of a bitch on the court. In American society, he embodied what we think our sports "warriors" ought to be (whereas LeBron seems to actually care about his colleagues and teammates, even if working out with Durant hurts his title chances).

But it doesn't change the fact Jordan was a gambler, a womanizer and many times a terrible teammate. But since it didn't happen in the era of 24/7 media and social media, people tend to forget/not know it and thus only think really nice things about Jordan.

James comes off as an entitled little baby most of the time. He's very off putting in most situations, whether it's his demeanor or his actual words.

And I've never gotten that impression. I know many people feel that way, but I've never seen it.

While Charles Barkley has been known to say and do some of the dumbest stuff on TV, he made a great point with his quote regarding not wanting to play with Magic, Jordan, etc. He wanted to beat them.

That must explain him going to Houston with Olajuwon and Drexler.

I like Barkley and thinks he makes many good points, but for him to pretend he didn't do the exact same thing is silly. He all but forced that trade with Houston, just so he could play for a title contender with superstars.

His choice made me believe he has no true competitive spirit and definitely not the heart of a champion. I will give him credit though. He has won 2 rings so far because of it.

I've never understood why wanting to play for a competent franchise means you don't have competitive spirit.