WWE Region,Philadelphia Subregion, First Round:(14)Mitsuharu Misawa vs(19)Rick Martel

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the WWE Region, Philadelphia Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

#14. Mitsuharu Misawa

Vs.

#19. Rick Martel

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Misawa will win this based on nothing more than the "he's a god in Japan" arguments that are certainly coming. Seems like every foreign wrestler in these tournaments is always a wrestling god. Dave Meltzer sprays his shorts at the mention of Misawa's name, so that reinforces the "he's a god in Japan" insight.

Misawa was a huge star in Japan for All Japan and Noah and his star power alone is something that Rick Martel simply can't touch.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

That AWA belt looks obnoxiously large on Martels waist, it takes up half his torso!

Anyways Misawa should win this. For all you IWC fans Meltzer has given this guy 25 Five Star Matches and your golden boy CM Punk has 2 but I've never much agreed with Meltzer's grading scale and feel it is greatly flawed.

Misawa was the top guy in NJPW and Pro Wrestling NOAH for a long time. He's a god in Japan as Jack pointed out and considering this match is in Philly (where smark wrestling fans are abundant) the location works in his favor as well. There is really nothing Martel can do that shakes a stick to Misawa.

Misawa wins this.

 

[justtxyank]

Man, this really sucks for Rick Martel. Martel is a guy who deserves so much more love than he gets. He was a very good worker and his stuff in the AWA was awesome. That he ended up as the Model probably hurt his legacy. That stupid blindfold match and the portrayal of him as an effeminate loser takes away from what was an outstanding worker.

Misawa is better than Martel, but had the Martel of the AWA ended up in the NWA instead of the WWF, I think it might be a different story.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Rick Martel was a legitimate World Champion in the AWA, and he lost this belt to Hansen and soon went to the WWF to become one half of Strike Force with Chico Santana and later 'The Model' Rick Martel.

Any modicum of success he had wouldn't even put a nick in the status that Misawa still has after his death. Misawa's matches with Japan's greatest wrestler's and some legends in the United States will go down as some of the greatest wrestling bouts in history. Misawa's wrestled Bret Hart, Stan Hansen, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, and I could go on and on with the greats in our industry. And he's beaten the majority of them.

Martel's not been too successful when it comes to his singles career aside from the title reign as AWA Champion.

Misawa wins this.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Misawa's seeding is criminally low. The resume speaks for itself. Over 700 days as the AJPW Triple Crown Champion, over 700 days as the GHC Heavyweight Champion, three time WON awards Wrestler of the year, and number six on PWI's best 500 singles wrestlers of the PWI years. He was dubbed the "Standard Bearer of Future Generations" and as a draw it wasn't unusual for him to play to Tokyo Dome crowds of over 50,000 people. There is no comparison to be found between these two, and how closely seeded they are is laughable.

If we were simply comparing Martel in the early 80s as AWA champion to Tiger mask-era Misawa this would be a debate. But when you compare Martel's best singles run on the big stage in the early to mid Nineties, where he never won WWF singles gold and was a one time WCW TV-champ, with what Misawa was doing as probably the most consistent wrestler on the planet at that time in terms of combining drawing power and match quality and you have the very definition of a no-contest.

Martel was a great tag team wrestler whose singles career peaked too early, Misawa is probably the greatest wrestler in Japanese history. This should be a squash for Misawa, though we all know he would've given Martel alot of chances for big moves and taken truckload of near-falls before polishing him off.

 

[Tastycles]

Misawa was a lot more entertaining, but I honestly think that in the US, Martel would have won this. Its easy to look at his career and see he never won many titles, but Rick Martel was hugely pushed, and basically invented staying in the Royal Rumble for ages. In fact, that action shows that he has the stamina to overtake Misawa. This is another one of those where the decision would be harder if it wasn't an utter foregone conclusion, but I don't think Martel deserves to get no votes.

 

[The Brain]

Misawa will win this based on nothing more than the "he's a god in Japan" arguments that are certainly coming.

Yeah but that's probably ok in this case. Misawa is probably the biggest star in Japan from the 90s and 00s. He may also be the most successful wrestler that didn't have any booking authority (at least I don't think he did). I don't think Misawa would have much trouble with Martel.

 

[Bernkastel]

Yeah but that's probably ok in this case. Misawa is probably the biggest star in Japan from the 90s and 00s. He may also be the most successful wrestler that didn't have any booking authority (at least I don't think he did). I don't think Misawa would have much trouble with Martel.

Misawa was president of All Japan at one point, and when Baba's widow tried to usurp power from him, he basically told her to go fuck herself. And he left and founded his own company. Normally that wouldn't have been a big deal, but since Misawa had so much popularity and pull, most of All Japan's top talent went with him. That left All Japan in a huge financial hole they are still feeling today.

Short answer - yeah, he had booking authority.

 

[The Brain]

Misawa was president of All Japan at one point, and when Baba's widow tried to usurp power from him, he basically told her to go fuck herself. And he left and founded his own company. Normally that wouldn't have been a big deal, but since Misawa had so much popularity and pull, most of All Japan's top talent went with him. That left All Japan in a huge financial hole they are still feeling today.

Short answer - yeah, he had booking authority.

Well shame on me for not doing my homework. My bad. Still I don't think it matters. Martel isn't exactly the type of guy to give him a big challenge anyway. Misawa gets an easy victory anyway.

 

[HBsam31]

I think Martel is underrated, but based on what I have read about Misawa I think he takes this one. Martel put on good matches, and like others have said was always in the Rumble a long time. As much as I wanted to vote Martel. I had to vote Misawa based on the arguments for him.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Just to make it interesting, I'll throw this into the mix. Martel held the AWA World Heavyweight Title for 19 months and beat Jumbo Tsuruta for the belt, a guy who was regarded as the best Japanese wrestler of the 80s... or to put it another way - the Misawa of the 80s. Now, if this was in the land of the rising sun, I wouldn't think that this would be enough but given that it is in the States, I think that a prime Martel might be given the 'W' again here.

 

[deem]

Just to make it interesting, I'll throw this into the mix. Martel held the AWA World Heavyweight Title for 19 months and beat Jumbo Tsuruta for the belt, a guy who was regarded as the best Japanese wrestler of the 80s... or to put it another way - the Misawa of the 80s. Now, if this was in the land of the rising sun, I wouldn't think that this would be enough but given that it is in the States, I think that a prime Martel might be given the 'W' again here.

Hmm that does make it interesting. It's a really great match btw, thank's for mentioning. I've linked it below if anyone else is interested.

[youtube]S_IzWEjzmCw[/youtube]
[youtube]AExXmcdKF5s[/youtube]

Arguing Martel's career over Misawa's is entirely pointless. This is Martel, in his prime, winning a very similar match against an almost equally tough opposition. So we gotta analyse two things to see if this piece of form/reign is enough to put Martel over - a) was this prime Jumbo and b) was prime Misawa a tougher opposition.

A) Yes, I think this is pretty close to prime Jumbo. Maybe he wasn't piling out quite so many classics yet, but he only wasn't the ace in Japan because Inoki was still knocking around. I see the #1 Japanese star as pretty easy to define linearly.

Rikidozan 1951-1963
Giant Baba 1963-1966
Antonio Inoki 1966-1986
Jumbo Tsuruta 1986-1992
Misawa 1992-2003
Kenta Kobashi 2003-2006

The point is, Jumbo was pretty much at his best here when he lost clean to Martel.

B) Evaluating Misawa Vs Jumbo is tough - obviously Jumbo passed the torch to him, but he was ageing and it needed to be done. The age gap between them makes this hard to define, but I just think Misawa went on to tons more success when all way said and done than Jumbo did.

I mean, just based on the video and the fact that Tsuruta is great, I think a vote for Martel is just about justified. I just say that Misawa is stronger, more hard hitting and tougher to put away within kayfabe than Jumbo was at his peak, which leas me to still pick him to go over.

Martel's really good though. A f ew years ago while posting in this tournament I hugely underestimated him having just seen his WWF work. I'm not making the same mistake here, but I do think Misawa is too strong still.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Misawa will win this based on nothing more than the "he's a god in Japan" arguments that are certainly coming. Seems like every foreign wrestler in these tournaments is always a wrestling god. Dave Meltzer sprays his shorts at the mention of Misawa's name, so that reinforces the "he's a god in Japan" insight.

Misawa was a huge star in Japan for All Japan and Noah and his star power alone is something that Rick Martel simply can't touch.

If you like in-ring innovation and brutal matches not involving foreign objects, I highly recommend you take a look at some of Misawa's bouts (as well as Kenta Kobashi). Yes, Misawa was a huge draw in Japan (not as big as Jumbo Tsuruta, Antonio Inoki, or Kenta Kobashi) but that's only part of the reason why I back him in these tournaments.

 

[deem]

Yes, Misawa was a huge draw in Japan (not as big as Jumbo Tsuruta, Antonio Inoki, or Kenta Kobashi) but that's only part of the reason why I back him in these tournaments.

Sick, is this official? Got any link to drawing figures? Was trying to find them for a different match, assumed it would be Inoki>Misawa>Jumbo>Kobashi

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Sick, is this official? Got any link to drawing figures? Was trying to find them for a different match, assumed it would be Inoki>Misawa>Jumbo>Kobashi

http://www.purolove.com/ Although in German, this is the best site for puro attendance figures.

 

[Bernkastel]

http://www.purolove.com/ Although in German, this is the best site for puro attendance figures.

Cagematch.net is also a good source. I managed to find attendance records for all the big events for All Japan in Misawa's prime. He was always booked in the main events; whether it was a tag or singles match because the guy drew. The promotion sold out every venue they went too; and even though 2500 people might not sound like allot, AJPW toured the wards of Tokyo along with other prefectures and they might have had only a population of 100,000 in a given area to work with.

RAW in 1999 may have drawn 10 times as many people, but the WWE was working cities with over a million people.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Cagematch.net is also a good source. I managed to find attendance records for all the big events for All Japan in Misawa's prime. He was always booked in the main events; whether it was a tag or singles match because the guy drew. The promotion sold out every venue they went too; and even though 2500 people might not sound like allot, AJPW toured the wards of Tokyo along with other prefectures and they might have had only a population of 100,000 in a given area to work with.

RAW in 1999 may have drawn 10 times as many people, but the WWE was working cities with over a million people.

Good stuff. I'll have to take a look at this. I'll have to look at AJPW's attendance figures between 1992 and 2000. I know the company was doing phenomenally well during the 1980s because of Tsuruta but that NJPW came back with a vengeance during the 90s. You could argue that Misawa was the reason NOAH did so well but I think that claim is dubious at best given Kobashi's popularity in the 00s. If AJPW was still drawing just as well during the primes of Hashimoto, Mutoh, and Liger, I'll definitely have to rethink my stance.

 

[Bernkastel]

Good stuff. I'll have to take a look at this. I'll have to look at AJPW's attendance figures between 1992 and 2000. I know the company was doing phenomenally well during the 1980s because of Tsuruta but that NJPW came back with a vengeance during the 90s. You could argue that Misawa was the reason NOAH did so well but I think that claim is dubious at best given Kobashi's popularity in the 00s. If AJPW was still drawing just as well during the primes of Hashimoto, Mutoh, and Liger, I'll definitely have to rethink my stance.

When Misawa left after the dispute with Baba's wife, and created NOAH, he took most of the top talent with him. That left All Japan is such a hole that even with Muta was their top draw they couldn't match what NOAH was doing the first couple of years. NOAH even usurped All Japan's prime time slot on Nippon TV. The fall of the global economy hurt both promotions, and Misawa's death in 2009 hurt NOAH even more.

1990 to the mid 2000's should be Misawa's heyday. I've never placed Kobashi above Misawa.