I look at that guy and my question is always a matter of... "What the hell do people see in that guy?"
With all due respect, Killjoy, that's hardly relevant to the discussion at hand. You may not see too much in the guy. To be perfectly honest, I don't see a hell of a lot in the guy myself, and I'm by no means sure that he will ever attain a world championship, whether he gets repackaged or not. All I am saying is that there is a far greater likelihood of him reaching the level of world champion by continuing with and expanding upon his current gimmick, rather than repackaging himself and essentially starting over. It took him a year and a half to emerge out of low card obscurity by riding the wave of his current popularity. Repackaging him will undo that in the blink of an eye. We may not see a lot in the guy, but plenty of people do, as evidenced by the response he gets from the IWC, but also, crowd response at live events, signs in the arenas, and merchandise sales. It is naive and inaccurate to suggest that he isn't closer to the main event today than he was in 2010 and earlier. Continuing his gimmick can continue to inch him closer. Changing it will end him.
You look at some of the all-time greats of pro wrestling. Names like Hulk Hogan, The Rock, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, John Cena and so on and you can pick a characteristic they all have in common: UNIQUE. They were all their own person, but their characteristics made them stand out above all others.
Let's be crystal clear here. The question at hand here is, does he need to be repackaged to win a world title, not whether or not he needs to be repackaged to become one of the greatest of all time, to become a Hall of Famer, to become comparable to Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and all of the other guys you listed. It's borderline silly to compare Zack Ryder to any of these greats. He doesn't have the in ring skills, the mic skills, or the charisma to be breathed in the same sentence as these guys, but that's not whats being debated here. The question is, does he have to be repackaged to reach the level of guys like Christian, the Great Khali, Alberto del Rio, or Jack Swagger, guys who have all become world champions, rightly or wrongly, which is something that can never be taken away from them. The question is not does he need to be repackaged to enter the main event and stay there for his entire career. The question is, can he become world champion with his current schtick, without being transformed, and I say, he can. Frankly, he probably won't, but he stands a much better chance of doing so by staying the course, rather than starting over.
Incidentally I remember a guy who had a gimmick that some would consider a little bit silly, one that consisted of vintage jerseys, chains, a white rapper routine, and followers known as the Chain Gang. At WM21, he became WWE Champion with this gimmick, reaching a world championship without getting repackaged. Granted, he would not likely have been able to sustain this with this gimmick, and he was eventually repackaged, but again, that's not relevant here. He did become world champion with this gimmick, which is the point being debated here. You may know who I'm asking about, I think you may have interviewed him once.
Ryder on the other hand, looks akin to a Goldust. A Koko B. Ware. Rick Martel, Disco Inferno, George Steele, Eric Young and so on.
That's your opinion, and of course you are entitled to it. But a lot of people would apparently disagree with you. And the fact that he has a large and ever increasing niche audience who feels differently than you do, is the very reason why he can ride this wave to a possible world title, or at least, it's far more likely for him to do this than by starting over.
I'm not so sure that Zack Ryder's gimmick or look is any more ridiculous than the Doctor of Thuganomics, yet that guy did parlay that routine all the way to the WWE Championship, something that Zack Ryder is more likely do do in his current incarnation, rather than going back to square one.
Zack Ryder... When think of him, do you think of his matches or skills in the ring? No you think about the goofy attire, the pop theme song and his obsessive internet escapades. That is most certainly not a full package.
No one has claimed that Zack Ryder is the total package. Neither was the Great Khali, or Alberto del Rio, or Jack Swagger, yet they did make it to become world champion, as Ryder is more likely to do as he is, rather than reverting back to what he was.
When I think of Ryder, I don't think of his in ring skill or his prowess on the mic, no more than I did for the guys in the preceding paragraph. I think of a guy who knew he had to distance himself from the plethora of faceless, nameless jobbers who he previously was lumped in with, and he has done a tremendous job of doing so in a relatively short period of time. And if allowed to continue with and expand upon his gimmick, he at least has the chance to make it to the main event and win it, something which he has no shot at doing in a repackaged version.
I found a case similar to Ryder's in which a wrestler underwent a change of gimmick as he rose to his main event status and decided to "interview" him about it.
I'm going to bypass this whole interview thing, because frankly, I didn't get the point of it. I guess it was supposed to be amusing, but it didn't work for me. The bottom line is, comparing Ryder to Cena of today is really an irrelevant and unnecessary action, as it proves nothing. I'm not saying that Ryder will ever reach the career level of John Cena, who when all is said and done will be seen as one of the best of all time. In fact, I'm saying I doubt he ever will. What I am saying is that he has a better chance of skimming the surface of a world title, at least for a brief moment, with his current act, which frankly is quite an accomplishment for a guy who two years ago, could not get beyond Superstars or NXT.
John Cena shows that if Zack Ryder wishes to eventually become a major star in the WWE, he will abandon his gimmick as an internet fan and playing a "goof" of sorts. It doesn't get more notable that the gimmick hinders him than now. WWE's refusal to have him in the midcard firmly or make him respectable just showed these last few months. After losing the United States Championship and being heavily pushed, he simply became the third wheel in John Cena's feud with Kane, became Eve's love-toy and more importantly, never won the title back. It seems to be a bigger sting that it was to Jack Swagger. A man of less importance in WWE's eyes who has lost the title himself already. Ryder's it tied to his gimmick. No matter the love the fans give him, he will just be seen as comic relief at best.
I disagree with this entire paragraph. We're not talking about whether or not Zack Ryder can become a "major star" in WWE, we're talking about whether he can become a world champion at some point, however brief or transitional, with his current packaging. We've covered this already, no need to discuss it again.
I disagree with your assessment of his last couple of months. Simply put, he has had to take a back seat to established veterans such as the Rock, John Cena, Triple H, HBK, Taker, Jericho, our two world champions, and others as we head down the road to Wrestlemania. This is no disrespect to where he is now or how management perceives him. It is the simple reality that he, along with guys like Ziggler, Kingston, and others, have had to fade into the background for a while to make room for the larger names. Once Wrestlemania is over, several of these guys will disappear again, and the door will re-open for Ryder. And make no mistake about, he will become prominent again, and who knows, he may ride this prominence right into the main event in the forseeable future.
This would be right. If it were the 80's or the 90's. In todays world within WWE, what gets you to the top is the moves you make backstage. Who you know, what you say. Look at all the top stars and they all have something that connects them to backstage favoring. From Sheamus being Triple H's training buddy, to The Miz jumping at every media appearance possible and on. In today's world within the WWE, a detail like being over isn't enough to get you to the top.
All due respect, but this is IWC generated bullshit and I'm not buying it at all. To suggest that the only reason Sheamus is being pushed is because he is Triple H's buddy's is naive at best. The Miz is receiving countless media appearances because he too has gotten himself over, and the WWE is choosing to allow him to interact with the mainstream media, rather than the other way around. Obviously, having friends in high places is always a huge help. That's life and it's hardly unique to WWE. However, to suggest that you could get over in the 80's and 90's by hard work, but that you can't do it today, that's just silly. Zack Ryder has done it. The Miz has done it. Santino Marella has done it. It can be done today just like it could in the past. And Zack Ryder has a better chance of proving me correct in his current version, rather than returning to the sides of Curt Hawkins and Trent Baretta.
Daniel Bryan was over. And it wasn't until retooling of his gimmick mixed with an injury to Mark Henry that he became World Champion. John Morrison was insanely over at one point. Why was he held back and eventually released? The backstage held him back (more specifically, Melina). Ryder is pleading to the wrong people. The crowd can support him as much as they want, but that key element won't help him. And begging the fans to make the parties backstage listen seems to not come close to working at all.
Daniel Bryan was over, and he still is, and WWE will exploit this fact to further elevate Sheamus at WM28, after which Sheamus will look great by defeating a competent heel champion, and Bryan will be just fine afterwards as well. Not sure if Morrison was ever "insanely over", but even if he was, you cannot push everyone, he may be one guy who unfortunately slipped through the cracks.
Ryder is not pleading to the wrong people. He is creating a niche for himself amongst a significant portion of the fan base, and it is paying dividends. And he may be able to translate these dividends into a shot at a world title. At least, it's far more likely with his current version, than as a Major Brother or a jobber. Crowd support absolutely will help him, it always does. And he has a far greater chance of becoming a world champion with it than he does without it.
I didn't . Sure, I did some research on the Internet, including Wikipedia, then I translated it into my own thoughts.
Haven't watched it. I expect wrestlers in the WWE to star THERE. Not Youtube.
You're probably right here. After all, WWE (and TNA as well for that matter) doesn't put any emphasis or importance on such venues as YouTube or twitter these days
By the way, I assume you are still watching RAW and Smackdown these days?
Lots of guys are getting noticed on various forms of social media, and are then trying to translate this into on screen success in their respective company. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that Zack Ryder has been doing it a little longer, and a little better, than some other guys.
You sure that's a WRESTLING fanbase? I often doubt that seeing how he doesn't get over with his in-ring abilities or his mic skills. He get's over by asking for it over open media. It's like the people use Youtube to become D or even F List people. Guys like Fred or... Damn, I can't name anymore internet guys. The problem with Zack Ryder regarding that? They are enjoying the wrong aspect about him. They wait for his newest episode or his latest tweet rather than what amazing thing he'll do on TV or in the ring.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a wrestling fan base, with plenty of overlap between wrestling fans and fans of other social media outlets.
You are correct here in at least one thing. Ryder won't get over based only on his in ring abilities or mic skills. Frankly, he probably isn't good enough to do that, which would become obvious if he tried to get over by depending upon them in a repackaged form. He needs his gimmick and his niche audience to get over. As I said, I'm not sure that even then it will be enough, but at least it gives him a shot. Without it, he has no shot. At all.
Getting pushed off a ramp, becoming Eve's plaything, losing to Jack Swagger, etc
Already covered this. He is having to defer to the old guard in preparation for WM28. Once that's over and these guys vanish again, he will re-emerge again.
You sure about that? If Zack's as good as you say, why be this goof that has to beg on the internet to get airtime? If he's as good as people say, we'll shine through no matter the role. Because that's what defines a true wrestling superstar. Look at Mick Foley, Terry Funk, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart or Hulk Hogan. All these guys underwent notable changes and still grabbed the spotlight. If Zack Ryder is as good as people claim, he can become a more serious wrestler and still retain the steady fanbase he's said to have.
I never said I thought Zack Ryder was good. Quite the contrary, I have suggested that he probably is not. He likely is not good enough to win a world championship if he has to depend upon his suspect in ring ability or his sketchy mic work, something which would become evident if he were to be repackaged. Under his current gimmick, he could coast into a world championship, potentially, which it could be argued he may not deserve. Without the gimmick, his shortcomings will be magnified, and he will never become a world champion.
Who ever said he was a "true wrestling superstar"? Who ever suggested he was comparable to Hogan, Funk, Taker, or the other guys you listed? If people think he is as good as those guys and can rely upon his God given talent to get over, they're likely wrong. He needs his gimmick to have any shot at a world championship. Even with it, it may never happen. Without it, it definitely won't.
Well for starters, it would give him a backbone. I mean what "future WWE Champion" gets slapped around by a Diva like that? Look at John Cena, he just made her look like an utter skank. Ryder on the other hand, still begs for her attention. Guess that's what he's used to at this point. Begging for support.
Have patience, Killjoy, have patience. I would have thought a TNA guy like yourself would surely have more patience than this. You have no idea how the Eve/Ryder thing will play out. His lack of a backbone, his begging for attention, that's all part of his schtick. And when he stands up to her later and kicks her to the curb, his niche audience is going to love it. And he'll move another rung up the ladder toward that ever elusive world championship.
Let's be clear here. I'm not a part of the Ryder Revolution. As I said, I'm not sure we will ever see the WWE Championship or the World Heavyweight Championship around his waist. But by maintaining the persona he has sculpted over the last 18 months or so, he gives himself the best opportunity to do so. If he can sustain his momentum and ride the wave, he could do the unthinkable, that being, transform himself from an anonymous Superstar on his way to Orlando, into a world champion in WWE. If he does not sustain it and attempts to reinvent or repackage himself, he's done, and we will be wishing his all the best in his future endeavors, sooner rather than later. Personally, I would prefer to see Ryder, when all is said and done, end up like Jack Swagger, having reached the top of the totem pole, albeit briefly, rather than end up like Tyler Reks, appearing on major WWE programming once every blue moon, as fodder for guys like the Funkasaurus, or worse, being forced to "cross the line".
