Who did Triple H keep down?

Test was a horrible wrestler. He was never going to be a real main eventer.

Shelton Benjamin? Are you kidding? Shelton Benjamin had numerous opportunities to prove he gave a damn, and fucked them all up. The only one responsible for Shelton Benjamin's failures in the WWE is Shelton Benjamin. HHH isn't responsible for Shelton Benjamin giving a half-ass performance every night, Shelton Benjamin is.

Chris Jericho? He reinvented himself because HE thought Y2J needed to die, because that isn't who he was anymore. Jericho killed Y2J, because he fucking matured as a person.

Booker T? He was held back? As others have pointed out, Vince never liked elevating WCW guys, unless you know that Booker T was scheduled to win, and that HHH politicked his way to change it, all you have is rumor and innuendo.

Jeffy Hardy? Jeff Hardy NEVER should have been world champ.

Chris Masters? He was a steroided up piece of shit. How is that HHH's fault? How exactly did Masters use the time HHH was away to prove his doubters wrong? HHH held me down, he is out injured, I will lose consistently on Superstars, THAT'LL SHOW HIM!

Spirit Squad? Who gives a fuck? They were rookies brought in as foils to DX, of course they were going to look like fools, they were meant to all along. When you have incredibly over DX feuding with Vince McMahon, and McMahon brings in 5 rookies straight from developmental, what did you really think the end result was going to be?

Umaga? He lost to Santino fucking Marella too. You going to claim Santino was holding him down?

Please, someone provide actual PROOF of HHH holding someone down, rather than just opinion.
 
You rambled off a list of people who have prospered with the help of HHH; Orton, Batista..blah bah. These were people who made HHH look good. These were young, strong, attractive men who would put in the work as HHH could take it easy a little bit as he aged.

Trips himself only found mediocre fame riding the d- of HBK. In the incident which included "the clique" occured Trips was the only one who was made to suffer. Oddly enough he became the top guy when dating and eventually marrying the bosses daughter.

WWE is filled with stars but only a select few get a push. Trips pushed Sheamus who is himself only mediocre. We've seen the most diversity in the past year than we have in years. Trips brags about having the held the belt 13 times. It sounds more to me like the effort was being placed on him becoming more like Flair than helping put over guys who were in their prime.
 
Being someone who was punished for the MSG Incident, I highly doubt HHH held anyone down since he knew first-hand what it felt like. Sure he had pull in the later years of his career, but he is and has been about the business.

If he was holding down anyone then by all accounts he shouldn't have a losing record at WrestleMania. The guy put over some major stars of today. He is self-described as the benchmark and being so, when faced, it was a test of how commercial his opponents were. If they couldn't hold their own against him how could they main event or continue to draw in the long run?

It's more than crowd reaction and more than what the fans want to see. When the match was over and they both went to the back, it was about how well his opponent was able to sell, work, and promo themselves in their feud. HHH, being someone who is considered the benchmark, was a measurement of how well his opponent could carry their weight in the ring and with the company. Being that good, he is an accurate judge of talent and I have to go further saying not only he knew this, but the people in charge also knew it.

WWE is not the indies. That might happen down in the minor leagues, but not in a place where people get paid big money and people have invested money in the company.

Too many people on this site treat pro wrestling as the National Enquirer and TMZ. Stop watching it like that and start watching it like a real fan. Sure HHH married into the family, but do you honestly believe he fooled his way into marriage and to the top?

When the show is over and the lights are turned off, it is and always will be about the business and about making money and the bottom line. Whether he liked the guy or disliked the guy is irrelevant. It’s about if the opponent can bring in money and put asses in seats and continue to do so every time he is out there.
 
Test - Killed his momentum. You could argue that Test didn't have it. I'd argue, who cares? It's opportunity x creativity x luck. Ultimate Warrior wouldn't have succeeded in any other time period than he did.

Shelton Benjamin - Momentum, destroyed. Sure he had a streak against him, but they were all weak wins punctuated by his utter destruction at the end.

Jericho - CJ ought to be bigger than he is. He had "Rock love" at one point. The fact that he eventually stuck around and got over again, speaks to his talent. He had to totally reinvent the character HHH killed.

Booker T - Destroyed. Lived to fight another day based on his own talent.

Jeff Hardy - Should've been World Champ 4 years before he did.

Chris Masters - Done

Spirit Squad - Decimated

Umaga - Stomped

That's just on-camera stuff. I can only imagine the real work that got put in off camera.

I'm actually a huge Hardy fan but thats rubbish.

Plus even if that was true how can you blame HHH for that? Jeff became champ in 2008 four years before that he was for one thing in TNA so it would have been very difficult to give him the title. Even if you wanted him to have it at the end of his WWE run he was a mess at that point, still is to be honest. He was fired because he couldn't control his addiction etc. Why on earth would the WWE give him the title at that point? Jeffs ability comes more from the fact he was amazing at getting the fans onside. I remember hearing an interview with Austin saying how the WWE wouldn't even be trying to push Jeff but the fans were so behind him they had to and he just kept blowing it every time he got near.

I don't see anything in Hardy's past that suggests he should have been champion or that HHH was preventing him being so. Jeff fucked up for Jeff 99% of the time no one else.
 
First off let me just say that if this topic was made in 2005 - 07, not one person here would be standin up for HHH.

I would have because I’ve always known it’s a weak argument that Triple H haters cling to because they just can’t accept the man deserves his spot at the top. I’ll comment some of the names I’ve seen on this list.

Kane: Here’s a stunning newsflash; it’s ok for a champion to successfully defend his title against a challenger. I know it sounds crazy but it happens. Kane makes a better challenger than champion. I’ve read so often he should have beaten HHH for the title because he was getting such great pops. He was only getting those pops because HHH was such a great heel. The fans hated HHH and were going to cheer anyone who went against him. Just because someone gets some good pops for a few weeks does not mean he should become champion.

RVD: I suppose an argument can be made but I didn’t see RVD as world championship material in 2002. Remember he’s not the most reliable guy. When he was finally given the ball he fumbled it worse than anyone ever has.

HBK: Did someone actually mention Shawn Michaels? HBK was the star who made Triple H so how could Triple H hold him back? Because his reign in 2002 only lasted a month? Maybe you didn’t notice but HBK never had any desire to be champion after his comeback. The fact that he interrupted HHH’s reign was done merely as a tribute. It was the opposite of holding someone back.

Chris Jericho: I seem to remember HHH completely making Jericho on Raw in 2000 with the title change tease. Sure Jericho didn’t get the belt but his popularity instantly skyrocketed. By the way it’s possible to make someone look good even if they don’t beat you. Jericho looked great taking HHH to the limit at Fully Loaded 2000 in their last man standing match.

Booker T: Debatable I suppose. I could agree that Booker probably should have won at WM19 but it's not the injustice it's made out to be. I think just wrestling HHH for the title at Mania was a good push for Booker.

Shelton Benjamin: Let’s see, Benjamin was drafted to Raw and immediately got to beat HHH. How is that holding him back? Too bad Benjamin got hurt as he was about to breakout. It was his injury that derailed his momentum, not HHH.

Goldberg: Why exactly should HHH have put Goldberg over? Goldberg signed a one year contract and it was pretty obvious he had no intention on staying a single day longer. He couldn’t even be bothered to show up on raw to hype his mania match. Fuck Goldberg.

Chris Benoit: Uh, Benoit won that feud convincingly.

Billy Gunn: Really? Did anyone ever see Billy Gunn as a main event wrestler? Triple H didn’t even have his alleged power during the time when WWE gave up on Gunn.

Jeff Hardy: Hardy’s feud with Triple H was the turning point in his career. HHH made Hardy look better than he was and helped Hardy finally win the big one.

Randy Orton: A young, green rookie got to be in a dominant group with the world champion. He was not treated as a lackey and always promoted as the future. Orton couldn’t connect with the crowd as a face. Not HHH’s fault.

Sheamus: Really? Oh that’s right; HHH got the best of Sheamus last week. What about before that? I’m pretty sure HHH gave Sheamus a huge rub. Remember when Sheamus put Triple H out for nine months? The good guy came back and avenged his loss. Go figure.

Chris Masters: Where the hell did this name come from? I didn’t know HHH held Masters back. I always thought it was because Masters has the personality of a doorknob was the reason he never got over.

In conclusion Triple H didn’t hold anybody back. He has always been one of the top guys on the WWE roster and deserves to go over others more than they deserve to go over him. Anybody remember WrestleMania VI? Remember how it was such a big deal when Warrior pinned Hogan for the title? That moment wouldn’t have been as special if over the years Hogan was always losing to Paul Orndorff, King Kong Bundy, One Man Gang, and Randy Savage. Same could be said for Triple H. When a truly deserving star like Batista and Cena came along Triple H put them over in grand fashion. Their victories wouldn’t have meant as much if just anybody beat Triple H all the time. If everyone just gets equal wins and losses then nobody stands out as great. We just have a roster full of mediocre wrestlers. If we weren’t privy to any backstage information everyone would look at Triple H as one of the all time greats, and rightfully so.
 
Test was a horrible wrestler. He was never going to be a real main eventer.

Define "real main eventer"?

Again, the Ultimate Warrior was a horrible wrestler and nobody cared.

Shelton Benjamin? Are you kidding? Shelton Benjamin had numerous opportunities to prove he gave a damn, and fucked them all up. The only one responsible for Shelton Benjamin's failures in the WWE is Shelton Benjamin. HHH isn't responsible for Shelton Benjamin giving a half-ass performance every night, Shelton Benjamin is.

So Shelton Benjamin failed because he didn't live up to his potential? Maybe. Probably even. His "half-assed performances" were better than most wrestlers' whole assed performances though.

Chris Jericho? He reinvented himself because HE thought Y2J needed to die, because that isn't who he was anymore. Jericho killed Y2J, because he fucking matured as a person.

Yeah and Charlie Sheen's recent nervous breakdown had nothing to do with cocaine, he's just stressed out from playing Halo.

Y2J was HUGE. Go on YouTube and hear the pop when he beat HHH on Raw for the world title (before the ref reversed it). Then tell me it wasn't his time.

His character change was refreshing, but I certainly think things would be much different now if certain previous events had or had not taken place. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.


Booker T? He was held back? As others have pointed out, Vince never liked elevating WCW guys, unless you know that Booker T was scheduled to win, and that HHH politicked his way to change it, all you have is rumor and innuendo.

That's all any of us have.

Jeffy Hardy? Jeff Hardy NEVER should have been world champ.

Yeah because being ridiculously over, insanely popular, a huge merchandise seller, a great athlete and a hard worker certainly doesn't warrant a world title.

Chris Masters? He was a steroided up piece of shit. How is that HHH's fault? How exactly did Masters use the time HHH was away to prove his doubters wrong? HHH held me down, he is out injured, I will lose consistently on Superstars, THAT'LL SHOW HIM!

Spirit Squad? Who gives a fuck? They were rookies brought in as foils to DX, of course they were going to look like fools, they were meant to all along. When you have incredibly over DX feuding with Vince McMahon, and McMahon brings in 5 rookies straight from developmental, what did you really think the end result was going to be?

Why'd he bring in 5 rookies if they were just going to disappear a few months later? He obviously saw something there. Their feud with DX could've been something more, but who can say now?

Umaga? He lost to Santino fucking Marella too. You going to claim Santino was holding him down?

Which came first, his ass beating at the hands of HHH or his beating at the hands of Santino? It's easier to take from a poor man than it is a rich one.

Please, someone provide actual PROOF of HHH holding someone down, rather than just opinion.

I've got none. Just rampant speculation and time on my hands.
 
These seem to be the names people want to throw out there:

Orton
Booker
Benoit
Kane
RVD
Goldberg
Jericho

Dose anyone know what these men have in common? They are all world champions. I'm sure he stalled some pushes, but these guys have all been on top.

As for Shelton and Test, Shelton never had "IT" and Test didn't ever seem credible until way after the period in question.
 
Hm....

I've heard complaints over Benoit's short reign on Raw, since Randy's face turn didn't really do much and he lost the title to HHH pretty quick. There's Booker T who tagged with Golddust for much of his time on Raw... the Kane unmasking that really took away a lot of his credibility... We could probably throw in Test since he seemed in line for a big push back in 1999 when HHH exploded into the main-event with the McMahon-Helmsley Regime...

Those are the most common ones I've heard. :shrug:

Those are three of the big ones but to me, Chris Jericho also can be added to the list. He was receiving massive ovations every night, including the reversed title win over Triple H. Jericho then went down the ladder, by WrestleMania 17 he was on the opening match. Nothing wrong with that, as it was a decent match for the IC Title but you get my jist. Triple H gets injured, Jericho skyrockets during the Invasion angle, wins World Heavyweight Title, wins the Undisputed Titles, gets to Main Event WrestleMania but gets lost in a storyline containing Triple H-Stephanie McMahon and a frickin' dog. Jericho loses a rematch, Triple H goes on to lose the title, faces Jericho again in a Hell in a Cell and Jericho again loses.Both get drafted to Raw. Triple H gets handed a title, whilst Jericho is in tag matches.

Now from what I've heard, Triple H and Jericho now get along, which is good and the backstage WWE staff respect Jericho a great deal, but around the early 2000s Jericho-Triple H apparently did not get along.
 
a real main eventer is someone who put butts in the seats. One of the marquee names, instead of the undercard. Its a relatively easy concept to grasp. Test never had the "it" factor, never had anything to sell him as a top guy. Ultimate Warrior was a shit qrestler too, but he had something Test never, ever had. Energy. The Ultimate Warrior's frantic nature, spastic interviews and all that gave him an aura of interestingness. Test was not only a terrible wrestler, but unlike Warrior, was boring as hell.

Either Shelton Benjamin's laziness held him back or Triple H did. Pick one. You can't claim Triple H held him down at the same time acknowledging that Benjamin's laziness probably kept him from being the guy.

How is the Spirit Squad any different than the Nexus in that regard? Rookie group gets ass kicked by established veterans. Wow. Earth shaking. You are seriously complaining about five rookies who don't know shit losing to two mutli-time world champions, both of whom were over as hell?

You don't think Umaga's downward spiral might have had ANYTHING to do with his substance abuse problems???

Chris Jericho has stated numerous times it was his decision to kill off the Y2J/Ayatollah of Rock'n'Rollah thing. I am sure if you wanted to, you could google it. But you won't, because you know I am right.
 
i have only 1 person to say. Sean O'Haire. O'Haire was slated to be in the feud with HBK and beat him leading to him being in evolution instead of batista. But of course Tripps wanted his trainee to suceed so he put O'Haire down and with that terrible Piper angle. Plus O'Haire was actually able to cut a promo. He was a tweener, just imagine having the Cerebral Assassin Tripps, The Cocky Orton, The Woman's Man Flair, and the Strong Athletic Devil's Advocate O'Haire.

Mark Jindrak was the one who was supposed to be in Evolution not Sean O'Haire. He stated this in an interview a few months ago. So it woulda been The Game, The Nature Boy, Mark Jindrak, and Randy or Batista. instead they throw him back down to mid-card. He goes onto to team w/ Cade then goes to SD! as "THE REFLECTION OF PERFECTION" then future endeavored later.
 
I personally think the Triple H haters are a bit rediculous, but I do think it is a bit of coincidence that under his watch, that many wrestlers pushes have fallen the way of the way side, to me it could be coincidence...but it all seems a little too coincidental. Fact is, I understand his push as a top guy, he earned it, no question, but it's like theyhad to the extra 500 miles for him. I don't get it. In late 2002 and 2003, business had gone down, and yet they continuously pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed him and many babyfaces that could've been profitable suffered because of it....after reading Jericho's book, it's pretty clear Vince didn't have confidence in alot of people. The period of 2002-04 is the only one I'd clearly call into question.....

Chris Jericho---He greatly benefited from the Last Man Standing match despite coming up on the losing end, that said however, Jericho always seemed like HHH's bitch, that said however, from the booking standpoint of many of these feuds, it did make sense for HHH to go over, but yet the buildup for some of the matches certainly left Jericho in the dust. That could be attested to bad booking. Jericho's profitably during the era didn't seem to suffer, he was always top merch mover and a top guy, and I really don't think he would've drawn any more or less regardless of how the feuds went.

Kurt Angle---Greatly benefited from the whole HHH/Steph/Kurt triangle that played out for the Summer/Fall of 2000, despite the big blowoff being a disappointment. Regardless, Kurt held his own throughout the feud, and it lead to him being champion shortly after.

Steve Austin---A lot of people called into question of HHH going over Austin at No Way Out '01, but it works logically really. Austin was in the main event with The Rock and they were about to set a PPV record, HHH needed to be built up for The Undertaker, where at this point "the streak" was starting to become a selling point. A lot of smarks balked at HHH going over Austin, but really it made perfect sense in hindsight.

HBK---Well this one speaks for itself, now look despite how we feel about "The Clique", or whatever, there's still no doubt in my mind that when they worked with each other, they'll give and take as best they can from one another. Sometimes these two did have pure magic, but I have to say, in the latter stage of the feud in 2004, it just seemed like a whole lot of Self-Indulgence, like the Hell in a Cell match.

---Now of course in 2002, this is where I think things really get screwey, Brock Lesnar is riding a wave of impact, and while it's been speculated HHH was threatened by him, many HHH aplogists say that it was just a better decision to have two belts. But this is where I agree with the haters, and say that he DID feel threatned by Lesnar, and the idea of two belts was suggested. And having the belt HANDED to him, just made for a collective groan everywhere. I've always hated that.

Rob Van Dam---This one I gotta raise my eyebrow at, Rob seemed to be cut off at the knees from the get go. The guy was over like a mofo but was also treated like one. While HHH can't be fully blamed for Rob's derailment, he certainly didn't help matter. In late 2002 it looked as if they were finally striking while the iron is hot with Rob, instead he lost, and faded out of the main event picture for the next several years. Rob has since claimed that many in the company have conspired to keep him down, including HHH, fact is, Rob needed this win to keep him profitable, to me his career did suffer because of this, that said however....it's not as if the last several months leading up to it were any help.

Kane---HHH didn't kill Kane...Katie Vick and his subsuquent unmasking nearly a year later is what killed him. But it is an odd coincidence during both horrid angles that HHH was the heel in the whole situation. Kane looked like a dope by the end and IMO has just become a waste of space since then and has never recovered.

Scott Steiner---Anyone who blames THIS one on HHH is up there ass, Steiner killed himself and has only himself to blame. The WWE gave him the chance to main event TWICE in a row, and he blew it. HHH wasn't a miracle worker at this point in his career, how could he have helped Steiner? Nobody could, that was abudantly clear during his entire WWE run.

Booker T---Booker's wave of momentum he was riding was killed in one fell swoop at Wrestlemania 19. That said however, we never really will know if he could've made it as a babyface champion with success, because the WWE didn't want to pull the trigger. Booker still had a good run later on, but for all we know, he could've meant a bit more. One of those "What if" situations.

Kevin Nash---We need not go there.

Goldberg---The WWE really fucked up here, and considering the real life heat the two had with one another, I can kind of see the haters point with this one. It is very much possible that HHH had something to do with Goldberg's ultimate demise.

SIDE NOTE: Now I'm not saying HHH said, "I'm not putting Goldberg over at Summerslam in the Chamber, and that's the end of it". See, putting the situations together, I think HHH approached it more as "Well I think this could be better for business" kind of way, and he clearly has Vince's ear, he has too, there's no question about it. I don't think he's the "refuse to job" type, but I think it's possible he may swing things in his favor by selling Vince on ideas.

Chris Benoit---A lot of people complain about this, but really they have NO basis to complain! NONE! What possibly more could've been done with Benoit?? I ask the question, WHAT? He beat HHH clean in the middle of the ring, at the biggest event of the year! He then beats HBK the next month, in the same type of match, also clean in the middle of the ring. Now I understand people say "He only feuded with HHH!". Well, really, who else was there on the heel side? He had a small feud with Kane that was good enough for what it was! And he beat HHH AGAIN at Vengeance!! Now is this HHH's fault?? No, it was the BOOKING teams fault for failing to build up anymore credible heels to face Benoit with. Why? Because they were too preoccupied with keeping HHH at the top. Eventually they did have one in Orton.....but now we're getting to that.

Randy Orton---Too me this was the biggest abomination on this list. The way the whole thing was put together and booked, and planned out had to be done by an inbred elf with no functioning brain. I don't know why anyone thought this was a good idea! Now I'm not saying HHH is to blame for this, but I have to call into question, clearly it was a bad idea from the word go, if HHH is so business smart as he says he is, then why did he not call this into question?

Batista---HHH did everything he had to do here, and it was onward and upward from there on in for Big Dave.

Ric Flair---Friends helping friends....awwwww!

John Cena---The only problem I had in this feud was HHH promos leading up to it. And to me that's the thing he ALWAYS sucked at, not putting over his opponents well at all on the mic.

(I'll skip over the D-X stuff, it was mostly with the McMahon's anyway).

King Booker---Why do people complain about this one??? It was HHH's return match....what more does anyone want?

Carlito---Just lazily booked.

Randy Orton (Part Deux)---Orton FINALLY recovered after years of trying to regain his credibility....Orton ended up being ok thankfully, but if you ask me, he got lucky.

Umaga---I agree Umaga should've at least gotten ONE win over the Gamer to stretch the feud out, but at the end of the feud, the top babyface always goes over. That's just how it is.

Edge---They really failed to go the distance with this one. Just lazy booking again...not the Gamer's fault.

John Cena (Part Deux)---The booking of Cena was questionable during the spring/summer of '08, as he always seemed to be losing "the big match", but he also suffered losses to Orton, Batista & JBL during this time, so HHH isn't to blame at all.

Jeff Hardy---I think this more had to do with the WWE's reluctance to put a belt on a guy who had two strikes against him.

Randy Orton (Part Trois)---The feud was again booked horribly, but not near as much as it was in '04, on one hand, I think Orton's momentum was killed by the McMahon's and losing the big one at Wrestlemania after all the buildup in a match that failed to deliver, and actually went on last. But on the otherhand, Orton was at his heelish best during this part of the feud in 2009, and it set the tone for him to go on to be respected by fans and become a monsterously popular babyface.

Legacy---To me Shawn & HHH did everything they could for these two, it was booked pretty paint by numbers, but in the end, the top babyfaces have to get the win, because that's just how wrestling works. To me, Dibiase just doesen't have it, and Rhodes is just starting to show it.

Sheamus---HHH did everything in his power to put this guy over....the WWE ultimately failed with it afterwards.

So in conclusion....to me in the period between 2002-04, the WWE was just too focused on HHH to really care what happened to those he faced, I do however think it's a little too coincidental that a lot of these things happened under his watch, but on the other hand, I just think it's one sided booking that ultimately killed a lot of these guys. Were some of the situations politically motivated....maybe...but all of them? Hardly.
 
Oh...and on the Spirit Squad.....I agree with the HHH loyalists on this one....they were all greener then the tights they wore, and were given a chance to shine...to me the only one who could cut the mustard back then was Kenny....the way I see it, the WWE just got lazy with him over time, and didn't even really try. But as for the Squad themselves, rookies got a chance to shine against two popular wrestlers...what more could they want?

As for Masters....I don't recall anything with him and HHH? I know he feuded with Shawn. And it was the best match of Masters' career....probably the one one I'd rank at 3-stars.
 
You know what I am so tired of hearing this crap. HHH was a two time world Champion before he and Stepahnie were even paired up on screen and it is known for a fact they did not start dating until after that. HHH was the top drawing heel champion of the late 90's, fact. Have any of you haters considered the fact that Y2J, Beniot, Kane, Booker and others got the pops they got because they were in a fued with the most hated heel in the business. If you want to say HHH held them back you are blind to reality. HHH fueded with Rock, Foley and Austin during his first four reigns and guess what those guys were able to draw huge pops as well. Perhapes the only reason being they worked with a great heel. God needs the Devil, The Beetles needed the Rolling Stones and in that period when Austin bailed, and Rock bailed HHH was left holding the pieces. If guys like those mentioned before could not get and stay over its their own damn failings.

As for Goldberg, his WWE run was shit. Period. He was brought in for a one year contract for the sole purpose of putting people over. So if your going to use that logic I guess all the young guys held back Diesel in this years Rumble.
 
Edge.

I said it. WWE had built Edge as a main eventer player in 2002 and 2004. Sources at that time stated Trips didnt think he was "ready" for the rub and couldnt "handle" it. Even when Edge was WWE Champion he was schedule to face HHH in a feud after Summerslam (proof was that the Rated R Title had a totally different design but WWE knew Edge's run was getting cut.)

I guess Vince felt guilty about Edge and bombards him with titles before he breaks down.
 
Edge.

I said it. WWE had built Edge as a main eventer player in 2002 and 2004. Sources at that time stated Trips didnt think he was "ready" for the rub and couldnt "handle" it. Even when Edge was WWE Champion he was schedule to face HHH in a feud after Summerslam (proof was that the Rated R Title had a totally different design but WWE knew Edge's run was getting cut.)

I guess Vince felt guilty about Edge and bombards him with titles before he breaks down.

Edge has been a good employee and been savvy behind the scenes as well.

He hasn't manipluated himself into title reigns like the son-in-law has, but he's been smart enough to avoid HHH and his boys when he could.

Take notice of how many times Edge has maneuvered himslef away from whatever brand HHH was working on.

It's happened numerous times, as he's seen what happened to guys who got moved to the RAW brand and ended up being fed to the son-in-law or one of his buddies.

Edge has played things pretty smartly.
 
a real main eventer is someone who put butts in the seats. One of the marquee names, instead of the undercard. Its a relatively easy concept to grasp. Test never had the "it" factor, never had anything to sell him as a top guy. Ultimate Warrior was a shit qrestler too, but he had something Test never, ever had. Energy. The Ultimate Warrior's frantic nature, spastic interviews and all that gave him an aura of interestingness. Test was not only a terrible wrestler, but unlike Warrior, was boring as hell.

You're right, Test didn't have much of an 'it' factor, but he was still better in the ring than the son-in-law. I also fail to see how such a one-sided feud was good for business. And for those saying the faces always win the feud, I guess this was the lone 'exception'?

Either Shelton Benjamin's laziness held him back or Triple H did. Pick one. You can't claim Triple H held him down at the same time acknowledging that Benjamin's laziness probably kept him from being the guy.

The fact is that Benjamin at his 'laziest' put on a better match than the son-in-law ever did.

How is the Spirit Squad any different than the Nexus in that regard? Rookie group gets ass kicked by established veterans. Wow. Earth shaking. You are seriously complaining about five rookies who don't know shit losing to two mutli-time world champions, both of whom were over as hell?

Two wrongs not making a right? It's just as dumb to ruin the Nexus jobbing out 5 guys to 2 guys (or 1 Cena) and it's just as bad for business. You tear guys down so far and you can never build them up again.

You don't think Umaga's downward spiral might have had ANYTHING to do with his substance abuse problems???

Depends on when they happened. If you gave a timeline, it would put things in perspective.

Chris Jericho has stated numerous times it was his decision to kill off the Y2J/Ayatollah of Rock'n'Rollah thing. I am sure if you wanted to, you could google it. But you won't, because you know I am right.

What does that have to do with HHH keeping a far superior talent down? Fact is that the son-in-law isn't 1/10th the talent that Chris Jericho is. And he worked his behind the scenes 'magic' on folks and got them to believe that Jericho wasn't main event material. And that his lame, tired 4-move slugfests were the proper way to 'work a match'.

I also continue to be amazed that the son-in-law positions himself to be in the ring with great workers who can carry a B-grade worker like himself to a quality match. But when he has to work with another B-grade worker - Steiner or Nash come to mind - the match is a trainwreck and it's always 'the other guy's fault'.

Never before (and hopefully never AGAIN) has such a marginal talent managed to manipulate the system in such a way to gain the position that he has. I take that back, Hulk Hogan was close. But at least he had charisma and drawing power. Too bad for him he didn't have a McMahon close to his age to marry.
 
HHH definitely did not do any favors for the careers of RVD, Kane, Booker T, Chris Jericho amongst others. Orton definitely has interesting opinions on the subject, they made that guy look like a fucking idiot by hotshotting him the world title when he wasn't ready, turning him face when he wasn't ready, and triple H essentially made Orton look bad and "had" to get the belt off of him.

Removing Kanes mask was completely unnecessary, Kane was in line to win the world title but HHH put the kabosh on that by repeatedly beating him in title matches. Glen Jacobs is such a great talent he took a character that "couldn't talk" and wore a mask, into a psychological machine.

HHH also got a lot of "rub" in his career, ending Foleys career, winning several world title matches at WrestleMania, putting himself in the Main Event of WM18 when the real Main Event was Hogan and the Rock

Shelton Benjamin was another one. That kid had ALL the talent in the world, but wasn't a great talker, but could put on AMAZING matches, he had a great match with HBK on RAW one night, Michael Hayes was very behind this guy, Shelton would literally take every money in the bank match and STEAL the show, but someone would never give the guy a chance and let him "break through" if they had given that guy a real chance he could have been a big star.
 
Booker T- The feud leading up to Wrestlemaina XIX was TAILOR MADE for Booker to go over Hunter and become the Superstar he had always been. For the life of me I will never understand why the fuck this didn't happen. Booker was one of the most over guys on the whole damn roster. It would have been the perfect chance to pull the trigger, but of course Hunter wasn't going to lower himself to losing to a black man. I'm sorry but this was fucking atrocious.

[YOUTUBE]tGMIClWJbc4[/YOUTUBE]

Once again, I state the Booker should have wenr over.

Typical HHH promo, he completely buries Booker T, all his accomplishments and WCW......hey HHH, if he's that bad WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE BUY THE PPV? he completely minimized Booker T as a threat, why would someone pay to watch a match if one of the competitors is completely buried?
 
HHH's worst acts have been those promos. He buries people on the mic like Booker and Masters and he tried to do the same to Cena, but Cena actally won that...

I loved it when RVD cut the promo on HHH on how the Game is awesome... at spitting water... maybe Trips couldn't take what he was dishing out and RVD got buried...
 
HHH definitely did not do any favors for the careers of RVD, Kane, Booker T, Chris Jericho amongst others. Orton definitely has interesting opinions on the subject, they made that guy look like a fucking idiot by hotshotting him the world title when he wasn't ready, turning him face when he wasn't ready, and triple H essentially made Orton look bad and "had" to get the belt off of him.

Triple H just can't win with some people. He gets blamed for holding back guys like RVD and Kane because they didn't get the title. Then he gets blamed for holding back Orton because he did get the title. Orton was given an opportunity to be champion and become the top face. When WWE realized he wasn't ready for that opportunity they took the title off him. What's the problem? Most criticism stems from HHH not giving people opportunities but then he gets criticized when he does give those opportunities.

Removing Kanes mask was completely unnecessary, Kane was in line to win the world title but HHH put the kabosh on that by repeatedly beating him in title matches. Glen Jacobs is such a great talent he took a character that "couldn't talk" and wore a mask, into a psychological machine.

Kane didn't want the mask anymore. He had it for six years and it was time for a change. Obviously it was going to be removed in some kind of angle. I don't see what the problem was. What do you mean Kane was in line to win the title? Based on what? I'm so tired of people thinking Triple H should have lost to everyone he wrestled. Triple H was better than Kane and should not have lost to him.

HHH also got a lot of "rub" in his career, ending Foleys career, winning several world title matches at WrestleMania, putting himself in the Main Event of WM18 when the real Main Event was Hogan and the Rock

What the hell are you talking about with WM18. We all know Triple H has some pull but do you think he had complete authority on what would main event mania? If Vince wanted Hulk vs. Rock to main event mania then that's what would have happened. You people exaggerate so much. Any little thing that you don't like involving HHH is automatically an abuse of power.

Shelton Benjamin was another one. That kid had ALL the talent in the world, but wasn't a great talker, but could put on AMAZING matches, he had a great match with HBK on RAW one night, Michael Hayes was very behind this guy, Shelton would literally take every money in the bank match and STEAL the show, but someone would never give the guy a chance and let him "break through" if they had given that guy a real chance he could have been a big star.

Nobody made Shelton Benjamin look better than Triple H did. Show me one piece of evidence that suggests Triple H held Benjamin back. As usual we have a fan upset that his favorites didn't achieve more and false blame being placed on Triple H.
 
Typical HHH promo, he completely buries Booker T, all his accomplishments and WCW......hey HHH, if he's that bad WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE BUY THE PPV? he completely minimized Booker T as a threat, why would someone pay to watch a match if one of the competitors is completely buried?


Typical HHH promo? What do you not get about HEEL's burry their opponets on the Mic. Its what they do. Flair did it for thirty years. Hogan did it when he was heel. HBK did it when he was Heel. Austin and Rock and Foley and all these other people did it too. Why oh Why is HUNTER the only one who gets bitched about.
 
big one 4 me is RVD. Rob was undoubtably was the most popular addition of the wcw/ecw purchase, month after month this didnt change. he was involved in some decent fueds. but for yrs he really was never in a whole lot. ive read on numerous occasions that the son-in-law didnt think he had what it took to be a main eventer. i think the misuse of van dam in the wwe did really hurt his career. who knows what kind of great matches he could have had as a top tier guy. yes he did drop the ball when he finally became champ. but if HHH himself wouldve had such an indiscretion, (or his friend shawn, nash..etc) would they have been punished so severely? regardless, i do legit think HHH had some backstage politicking that held down RVD during his tenure in wwe. and im sure, many many others. i am a fan of his work, but his politicking is almost on par w/ hogan and nash.
 
big one 4 me is RVD. Rob was undoubtably was the most popular addition of the wcw/ecw purchase, month after month this didnt change. he was involved in some decent fueds. but for yrs he really was never in a whole lot. ive read on numerous occasions that the son-in-law didnt think he had what it took to be a main eventer. i think the misuse of van dam in the wwe did really hurt his career. who knows what kind of great matches he could have had as a top tier guy. yes he did drop the ball when he finally became champ. but if HHH himself wouldve had such an indiscretion, (or his friend shawn, nash..etc) would they have been punished so severely? regardless, i do legit think HHH had some backstage politicking that held down RVD during his tenure in wwe. and im sure, many many others. i am a fan of his work, but his politicking is almost on par w/ hogan and nash.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA.

Has HHH ever destroyed a company?

There is no way in hell he is even close to what Hogan and Nash did. Nash booked himself over Goldberg when he was the shit in WCW. Nash called people like Mysterio "vanilla midgets", he kept many "vanilla midgets" down, faked a heart attack to get out of losing a match with Big Show, and many other things. Hogan...Good lord. Yes, he is a legend but HE WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST FUCKING REASONS WCW WENT DOWN. HHH may have kept some people down but the only two big ones were RVD and Booker T (I have always liked Booker but I never saw him as title material anyway). Remember RVD was given two world title (ECW was a world title at the time) and he fucked up big time. HHH has made many people and when he makes you, you usually become a star. (Cena, Randy, Jeff Hardy, Benoit, Sheamus, Batista and he even lost to freaking Benjamen). HHH may have been a dick back then (or he may have been a really nice guy, none of us know for sure) but this thing of him keeping people down is totally overblown.
 
For fuck's sake READ what I have written. When has Vince ever pushed WCW/ ECW talent over his own? Did you not see the Invasion storyline or were you so dense that you did not understand it? Vince did not want any WCW talent to beat his guys.

And yet RVD beat Jeff Hardy for the Hardcore title AT Invasion. It was the only title match on the card and the non-WWF guy won.

Triple H merely served as a medium for burying them.

He wasn't even there during the Invasion storyline, he was injured. Came back, immediate Rumble win, immediate title win and then lost it to one of the only wrestlers with a worse reputation for politicking than him in Hogan, and then when Hogan dropped the belt to Taker, what happened? HHH was the first challenger immediately.

Had Austin or Rock been there instead of HHH you would have seen the same thing happen. HHH was the biggest star of the Attitude Era left in the WWE post Summerslam 2002 with Rock only making sporadic appearances and Austin coming back for just one match. That is why HHH won against those guys.

So, because Austin and Rock left, that meant HHH should win constantly? When they had guys like Kane, Taker, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, Edge and Angle already at their disposal? Nah, fuck those established veterans, let's just have HHH go over Booker, Goldberg, Orton and whoever else is just floating around on the roster instead.

Yeah tell me WHEN Kane has main evented without being involved in some sort of storyline with The Undertaker. The answer is never.

The answer is 1998 when he beat Austin at KOTR, sure there was a Taker run-in, but that was because of a Foley run-in, and both fueds had been running alongside each other for several weeks.

Want me to remind you the last time Kane got a World Title match on PPV prior to this storyline against HHH? Against Austin in 1998. For 4 years Kane was a nobody.

He was in a Triple Threat match with Taker and Austin in July of 1998 and then again at Unforgiven that year against Taker, so a couple of months between then and KOTR 98. Are you sure you want to keep preaching about looking up facts, dude?

Yep Orton was in every PPV main event from Summerslam 2004 to Elimination Chamber 2005. That is called burying, no?

Beating the newly crowned champion down the night after he wins it and then takes the belt FROM him 3 weeks later? THAT sounds like burying to me, especially since Orton's highlight was spitting in HHH's face. Every moment in that fued featured Orton on the receiving end of a beat down.

Nope the angle failed because Orton failed to connect with the fans.

What about those huge pops when he actually WON the title. Suddenly a week later no one cares? Don't buy that somehow.

He had the perfect face turn after being thrown out by Evolution and Triple H won every match by cheating. Orton should have generated more sympathy than a guy who had lost his family in a road accident but no one gave a fuck about him.

Or maybe no one gave a fuck about ANOTHER ME fued featuring HHH?

How bout being World Champion BEFORE he started dating Stephanie? Have you ever considered that Hunter and Stephanie LOVE each other?

This i can fully back. HHH and Steph didn't ACTUALLY start dating until well AFTER they'd been written as a couple on TV. They even stopped for a while because Vince didn't like the idea of them being together, and they got together anyway.

And how about the fact that he has not won a single title in three years?

Sorry, who did Jeff Hardy keep trying to defeat for the WWE Title before he finally won it from Edge in 2008? That's right it was HHH, LESS than 3 years ago.

Who had to step in for Cena after he injured his pectorial muscle so the LMS match with Orton could still go ahead at No Mercy 2007? That's right, it was HHH, where he beat Orton in 15 minutes for the title at the beginning of the night. So he DID win a title in 2007.


The only fact that is clear here is that you smoke pot and have a double digit IQ.

So then, i assume that you DON'T smoke pot, whereas I do, and i've just managed to come up with valid arguments AND correct you several times. The guy may have a double digit IQ, but don't start branding all pot smokers as being stupid. Some of the most respected posters on this forum blaze up regularly.
 
And yet RVD beat Jeff Hardy for the Hardcore title AT Invasion. It was the only title match on the card and the non-WWF guy won.

And it was only a midcard title. Yes RVD was pushed as the leader of the midcard but that does not mean that he was to be made into a main eventer. In fact any time RVD comes near the mic, he bores the hell out of me. And if RVD was so talented then why didn't he win a title till 2006 and that too on the back of ECW. There were times that he was on Smackdown which did not feature Triple H. So why didn't he win the title then?



He wasn't even there during the Invasion storyline, he was injured. Came back, immediate Rumble win, immediate title win and then lost it to one of the only wrestlers with a worse reputation for politicking than him in Hogan, and then when Hogan dropped the belt to Taker, what happened? HHH was the first challenger immediately.

Uh yeah and what's your point? I remember HHH losing in shady circumstances and so he was entitled to a rematch. And HHH lost to Undertaker didn't he?


So, because Austin and Rock left, that meant HHH should win constantly? When they had guys like Kane, Taker, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, Edge and Angle already at their disposal? Nah, fuck those established veterans, let's just have HHH go over Booker, Goldberg, Orton and whoever else is just floating around on the roster instead.

Yeah because he was the biggest star. Bigger than Kane, Eddie, Benoit Jericho and Angle. That is why he went over all the WCW talent like Booker T, Steiner and Goldberg. HHH wanted to show that his guys were better than WCW's guys, his main eventers were better than their's. HHH was the biggest main eventer on the roster and that is why he went over. And frankly that is a good thing. WCW guys were going to lose anyway so it's a good thing that they lost to the biggest guy there was.

Oh yeah and didn't Edge win over Booker at Mania? Wasn't Test defeating Steiner soon after his feud with HHH? So why aren't these names coming up when you are talking about burying talent.


The answer is 1998 when he beat Austin at KOTR, sure there was a Taker run-in, but that was because of a Foley run-in, and both fueds had been running alongside each other for several weeks.

Yeah and the storyline was that he would burn himself if he did not win the match. The intrigue to the match was if Taker would support his brother and save himself or did he hate Kane so much that he would let him burn himself or even try to screw him. Yeah that sounds like an involvement with Taker without which Kane has always been a nobody.

He was in a Triple Threat match with Taker and Austin in July of 1998 and then again at Unforgiven that year against Taker, so a couple of months between then and KOTR 98. Are you sure you want to keep preaching about looking up facts, dude?

Why thank you for pointing out that he was still not a main eventer for 4 years till that feud with Triple H.




Beating the newly crowned champion down the night after he wins it and then takes the belt FROM him 3 weeks later? THAT sounds like burying to me, especially since Orton's highlight was spitting in HHH's face. Every moment in that fued featured Orton on the receiving end of a beat down.

And how did HHH win? By interference. I do not care how it sounds to you but that is not burying. That is building up sympathy for the face. Stacking the deck against him. That was done to build sympathy for Orton, not bury him.



What about those huge pops when he actually WON the title. Suddenly a week later no one cares? Don't buy that somehow.

Orton won the title as a heel and got pops for the first time when he was on the recieving end of a 3 on 1 handicap match against Evolution when Benoit and Benjamin came out to save him. And how can you blame HHH for making Orton's pops disappear? Did he hypnotize the crowd? A dastardly heel winning the title from a newly crowned babyface champion by nefarious means is supposed to get the crowd on the side of the babyface, not against him.



Or maybe no one gave a fuck about ANOTHER ME fued featuring HHH?

Yet they gave a fuck about the Main Event feud that Batista had with HHH only a short while later. Face it dude. Orton was not prepared to handle such a huge responsibility and that is why he failed. He won at a few points like in the Survivor Series match but no one cared. They cared for Batista because he connected better than Orton did.


This i can fully back. HHH and Steph didn't ACTUALLY start dating until well AFTER they'd been written as a couple on TV. They even stopped for a while because Vince didn't like the idea of them being together, and they got together anyway.

Why thank you.

Sorry, who did Jeff Hardy keep trying to defeat for the WWE Title before he finally won it from Edge in 2008? That's right it was HHH, LESS than 3 years ago.

Who had to step in for Cena after he injured his pectorial muscle so the LMS match with Orton could still go ahead at No Mercy 2007? That's right, it was HHH, where he beat Orton in 15 minutes for the title at the beginning of the night. So he DID win a title in 2007.

Ok my mistake. But he lost to Orton later that night. Also I meant to say 2 years not three.



So then, i assume that you DON'T smoke pot, whereas I do, and i've just managed to come up with valid arguments AND correct you several times. The guy may have a double digit IQ, but don't start branding all pot smokers as being stupid. Some of the most respected posters on this forum blaze up regularly.

OK point taken about not insulting pot smokers. But you still haven't proved that HHH kept people down.
 

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