UFC HOF: Brock Lesnar

[Turd Ferguson]

I think a series of threads discussing whether or not a fighter is worthy of making the UFC Hall of Fame could be really interesting.

The first in this series of threads:

Credentials:
5-3 Record, 1 Time UFC Heavyweight Champion
W - Heath Herring (UFC 87)
W - Randy Couture (UFC 91, Became UFC Heavyweight Champion)
W - Frank Mir (UFC 100)
W - Shane Carwin (UFC 116)
TUF 13 Winning coach


Brock retired following a loss to Alistair Overeem at UFC 141. Despite his abbreviated run in the UFC, and his record that on paper, isn't too impressive, Brock did a lot for the sport in his short time as a competitor in the UFC and his induction to the UFC some day is a no brainer.

Brock was the first big-time crossover star to MMA. When it was announced he was going to fight for the UFC, it was met with skepticism by MMA fans, WWE fans, and the general sports media. His signing had "freakshow" written all over it. And for his first fight, he was given an extremely stiff challenge in the form of former UFC Heavyweight Champion, Frank Mir. People forget this about Mir, but at the time, he was just about left for dead career-wise. He had suffered a devastating loss to Brandon Vera, and following that, picked up a meaningless win against Antoni Hardonk. He was still trying to find his footing after returning from the motorcycle accident that nearly ended his career. It was an extremely close fight to call at the time. For the first 40 seconds or so, Brock showed he was for real, until he may or may not have landed an illegal strike to the back of Mir's head. From there, Mir caught Brock in a kneebar. Brock lost the fight, but it showed he could very well be a force with more discipline.

His next fight was a stiff challenge in Heath Herring. Herring was a veteran of PRIDE, and was coming off of a close loss to Big Nog and a win over Cheick Kongo. Lesnar bumrushed Herring at the very beginning and dominated him en route to a dominating decision victory. Herring hasn't fought since, and the win was impressive enough to earn Brock a title shot at Randy Couture.

Let's not kid ourselves, Brock only got the title shot due to his immense popularity and the UFC wanted to capitalize. UFC 91 cracked over a million buys. This is when it became clear that Brock was a bonafide PPV draw and the biggest star in the company. Brock dominated Couture and became UFC Heavyweight Champion in only his third fight with the company. And in the perfect storyline, Frank Mir won the Interim Heavyweight Title from Big Nog at UFC 92, setting up the rematch at UFC 100 between Lesnar and Mir.

In the biggest grudge match in UFC history, at UFC 100, Lesnar and Mir's feud meant big bucks to the UFC. UFC 100's buyrate was an extremely impressive 1.6 million. Lesnar dominated Mir en route to becoming the undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion.

Then the health problems took the forefront. Brock was diagnosed with Diverticulitis, and didn't return until UFC 116, one year later, against Shane Carwin. Brock was thoroughly manhandled by Carwin in the first round, and only won the fight in the second due to Carwin's gassing out. Still, UFC 116 did 1.16 million buys. Brock was still the biggest star in the company.

Then came the fight against Cain Velasquez, in which Brock was thoroughly manhandled again, and this time, there would be no comeback. Brock would lose the title. Despite this, he still helped the company earn a 1.05 million buyrate.

Brock had another bout with Diverticulitis, and didn't fight again for another year, on December 30th against Alistair Overeem. Despite this fight taking place on a Friday and around New Years, Brock still helped the company pull in 800,000 buys in what was a down year for buyrates. He retired after the fight, but it seems clear that the door is open for a return.

Is Brock Lesnar Hall of Fame worthy? I believe he absolutely is. He brought in a new wave of fans for the UFC, helping the company reach massive growth and getting all sorts of new eyes on the sport. He won the UFC Heavyweight title in his 3rd fight with the company. Every card he headlined was an absolute success. People will point to his record for not being impressive on paper, or the fact that he had a relatively short career with two one year gaps. I would point to the list of names he's beaten, who are all top fighters, and the fact that he only ever lost to Mir (which he avenged), Velasquez and Overeem (depending on who you ask, both those guys are #2 in the division).

His time with the company was short, but his impact with the company is still long-lasting, as he helped the company reach growth that without him, could have taken years to realize.

 

[JWGunslinger]

Great thread idea Guy, definitely need to see more of these.
I say yes, Brock should be in the UFC Hall Of Fame. His career may have been short but everybody will remember it, and that's what's important is that Brock was the biggest name in the UFC and all of MMA for a while. He started as a big deal because everyone knew him from his WWE days and wanted to see how he fared when it was the real deal. Then he shut up his doubters by taking the belt in his 3rd fight and scoring two successful title defenses, which is saying something at heavyweight. Brock became the person everyone wanted/expected to fail and instead became one of the biggest PPV draws ever and cemented a hell of a legacy. It would ofcourse help his case if we saw him return and get some revenge, making him a shoe in but where he stands now he's still HOF material.

 

[Fizzy]

Brock Lesnar is the most popular superstar MMA has ever seen, not because people like him, but because everybody tuned in to watch him fight. No matter the opponent, Lesnar would draw a guaranteed 600,000+ PPV buys easy. He propelled the UFC to heights many never thought possible, both the UFC and MMA as a whole received more mainstream recognition off his name than any other figure in the sports history. Based on that alone, Brock should get into the HOF. Add the fact that he was one of the most successful Heavyweights in UFC history despite only training and fighting for a few years and he should be a shoe in. Based on the heights in which he propelled the UFC and his success as a champion, i'd put him in the HOF with no second thoughts.

 

[Entertain The Exodus]

That record 5-3 is very poor, he was rushed to the title and the UFC capitilized on the horrible HW division they had to make money off a man with very little MMA talent, just abundant size. That said all the wrasslin fans loved him and all the casual fans who beleive muscles=talent loved him and bought his PPVs, he made UFC money but held the division back while we waited for a talented fighter to hold the belt again.

 

[Larry]

Yeeaaahhhh, I know he garnered a lot of attention but I don't think a 5-3 record substantiates HOF worthiness. Lesnar's win over Couture (which gained him his only championship) had more to do with size and strength advantage than it did skills and I don't think anyone can really argue otherwise. Randy still tagged him at will, and didn't go down easily which is a testament to his ability. He was hot-shotted to the title because of his name recognition and nothing more. And seriously, what a bust? Getting beat by Frank Mir in his debut in the fashion he did, that just made him look big and dumb. He should have never lost that way if he was to lose, and it think it speaks to how shitty Frank Mir is that he still couldn't handle a guy who'd only had 1 fight in K-1 prior to that, and got lucky.

The two times he fought some legit still competition, he lost. When he fought other guys his size in Heath Herring and Shane Carwin, he still wasn't dominant or impressive. He just got by against one idiot who gassed himself and another who was nothing more than a body in the ring after Dana White tried to throw a washed up veteran with a little name recognition in there with Lesnar and it didn't work out. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but these are hard charges to deny. Sure, at the end of the day in the books Brock Lesnar came to UFC, won some fights, won the title, and went on his merry way having drawn massive numbers. I just don't think that equates to "HOF" induction. There are a lot of other guys much more deserving who are also big time draws that have actually had relatively lengthy careers by MMA standards and been much more successful by MMA standards. He may always be remembered, but he should never be considered an actual legend of MMA.

 

[BASSER911414]

This thread is a joke... A big FUCKING joke...

Brock Lesnar has brought nothing to the ufc that others havent. He has a piss poor record and is only famous for being the highest paid.


For anyone who thinks his fight with frank mir was dominant... PLEASE do ur research. Mir had a motorcycle accident one month before the fight and he was forced into the fight by dana white.

When it came to heavyweights that mattered. minus randy couture who was in his mid 40s at the time. The only credible win he has is against shane carwin and that too by fluke. Carwin made him his bitch in the first round and then lesnar pulls off a fluke arm triangle. And we all saw what cain and overeem did. And considering what jds did to cain we know very well what he wouldve done to lesnar.

Hell put him up against roy nelson. Nelson would knock his ass out.

When guys like anderson silva and frank mir arent in the ufc hall of fame brock lesnar does not even come close to being nominated along the likes of ken shamrock, chuck liddell and royce gracie. This isnt the wwe where the guy who retires gets nominated. Brock did nothign for the ufc that nobody else except for a few extra buyrates.

Plz all u pro wrestling buffs read more about ufc before writing shit like this.

Besides who do u know with a 5-3 record whos been nominated for ufc hall of fame..

I cant wait to see anyone ask dana white this question. Hed laugh his ass off.

 

[Nick Black]

No. No. No. No.

He doesn't deserve it. He got thrown into Title contention because he's a draw. Who cares if Lesnar is a cross-over into UFC? He's a hot-headed, full-of-himself, ignorant asshole. Everybody knows this. He fought well at first. But throwing someone in the ME picture and losing his first match, then winning the title next time doesn't make him HoF material. Instead of throwing someone to the top after being 2-1 because they're worth money, what about Tim Sylvia? Who went 13-0 before joining UFC? That's like WWE Pulling in Sonnen and main eventing him, letting him win the title, lose it 3 matches later, and then placing him in the HoF. Makes no sense. Go ask Dana White about this and see what he says.

Use your brains. How about inducting Sylvia, or Evans, Rampage, Liddell, or any of the other fighters that DESERVE to be in the HoF? (I know none of the aformentioned fighters have retired yet).

 

[TheHopester]

Brock was a big bully. Herring got poked in the eye by the ref before the fight even started. He out weighed Couture by 40lbs. He did dominate Mir at 100. Beat Carwin but his weakness was exposed (no chin). Cain killed him and I think he took a dive in the AO fight. How does that make him a HOFer? Hendo has fought in 4 different weight classes and has beaten the best in the sport. There are guys who live for this sport. Brock just liked the pay check and didn't like getting hit. That's why he's wwe that's why he won't fight again unless he makes over 2mil.

 

[stevieg786]

This thread is a joke... A big FUCKING joke...

Brock Lesnar has brought nothing to the ufc that others havent. He has a piss poor record and is only famous for being the highest paid.


For anyone who thinks his fight with frank mir was dominant... PLEASE do ur research. Mir had a motorcycle accident one month before the fight and he was forced into the fight by dana white.

When it came to heavyweights that mattered. minus randy couture who was in his mid 40s at the time. The only credible win he has is against shane carwin and that too by fluke. Carwin made him his bitch in the first round and then lesnar pulls off a fluke arm triangle. And we all saw what cain and overeem did. And considering what jds did to cain we know very well what he wouldve done to lesnar.

Hell put him up against roy nelson. Nelson would knock his ass out.

When guys like anderson silva and frank mir arent in the ufc hall of fame brock lesnar does not even come close to being nominated along the likes of ken shamrock, chuck liddell and royce gracie. This isnt the wwe where the guy who retires gets nominated. Brock did nothign for the ufc that nobody else except for a few extra buyrates.

Plz all u pro wrestling buffs read more about ufc before writing shit like this.

Besides who do u know with a 5-3 record whos been nominated for ufc hall of fame..

I cant wait to see anyone ask dana white this question. Hed laugh his ass off.

Wtf is this shit?

To answer the TS's question, hell no does he deserve to be in the UFC hof.

Regardless of the numbers he bought in, he has a 5-3 record in MMA. Not good enough, If frank Shamrock can't get into the UFC HOF then Lesnar shouldn't be ever mentioned in the same breath.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

This thread is a joke... A big FUCKING joke...

Brock Lesnar has brought nothing to the ufc that others havent. He has a piss poor record and is only famous for being the highest paid.


For anyone who thinks his fight with frank mir was dominant... PLEASE do ur research. Mir had a motorcycle accident one month before the fight and he was forced into the fight by dana white.

This has to be the most uninformed, ridiculous, and flat out incorrect garbage I have ever read.

Absolutely NOTHING supports your claim that Mir was in any sort of accident before the Lesnar fight. Nothing on Google, nothing on MMAJunkie, MMAFighting, or BloodyElbow supports this.

Mir's only motorcycle accident was after his fight with Sylvia. You sound like some 18 year old kid that thinks he knows more than anyone else and we're some uneducated MMA fans on a wrestling site.

First off, I'm sure half the people on here have forgotten more MMA than you'll ever know. Secondly, Dana has been Brock's biggest supporter. Thirdly, the fight went down the SAME, EXACT way BOTH times. Even if your bullshit story was true, it still went down like that both times. Unless you're saying has been in a motorcycle accident every time he's lost. So, you sound like an uninformed jackass three times in one comment. Good job.

When it came to heavyweights that mattered. minus randy couture who was in his mid 40s at the time. The only credible win he has is against shane carwin and that too by fluke. Carwin made him his bitch in the first round and then lesnar pulls off a fluke arm triangle. And we all saw what cain and overeem did. And considering what jds did to cain we know very well what he wouldve done to lesnar.

His only credible win? He defeated Frank Mir, Shane Carwin, and Randy fucking Couture. The only fight Brock had against someone (in UFC) who wasn't a top ranked fighter was Heath Herring.

Hell put him up against roy nelson. Nelson would knock his ass out.

Nelson got taken down repeatedly by Frank Mir. Brock is a much better wrestler than Mir. Try again.

When guys like anderson silva and frank mir arent in the ufc hall of fame brock lesnar does not even come close to being nominated along the likes of ken shamrock, chuck liddell and royce gracie. This isnt the wwe where the guy who retires gets nominated. Brock did nothign for the ufc that nobody else except for a few extra buyrates.

Anderson isn't in the HOF yet because he's still a very active fighter. Mir isn't in the HOF yet for the same reason. Do you think before you type?

Because of Brock, people are interested in the HW division. Before Brock, it was just a huge Nog, Sylvia and Arlovski-fest. After Brock, we got Junior dos Santos, Overeem, Velasquez, Carwin, Miocic, etc...

Everyone wanted to beat this WWE guy and it has brought about some of the best fighters in UFC HW history. Fuck, you're absolutely clueless, aren't you?

Plz all u pro wrestling buffs read more about ufc before writing shit like this.

Besides who do u know with a 5-3 record whos been nominated for ufc hall of fame..

I cant wait to see anyone ask dana white this question. Hed laugh his ass off.

You wanna talk about Shamrock's record of beating a ton of cans and having a couple draws? How about Royce's record after people learned BJJ?

Brock bridged two sports and created HUGE interest in the UFC. Those buyrates that you dismissed led to some of the UFC's biggest sponsorship deals and ultimately led them to get a network deal with FOX.

Brock should absolutely be in the HOF for his contributions to the sport. Even if it was short-lived, we're still enjoying the results.

There's only one person on this thread who is writing shit. I'll give you a hint, it's you.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

To everyone saying Brock doesn't deserve to be in there due to the fact that he had a 5-3 record... look at the level of competition he faced while with the company. This was a guy with no experience in the sport and he faced, and beat, nothing but top guys. The only can he faced was Min Soo-Kim, and that wasn't even in the UFC.

Randy Couture and Tito Ortiz don't exactly have the most impressive records on paper either, but they were extremely successful and did a lot for the UFC as well.

People need to understand that a win-loss record isn't the end-all/be-all in judging how good a fighter is. There's a reason why Randy Couture's a Hall of Famer despite having 11 losses, and a reason why Jason Reinhardt is 20-3 and is considered one of the biggest cans to ever fight in the UFC.

For anyone who thinks his fight with frank mir was dominant... PLEASE do ur research. Mir had a motorcycle accident one month before the fight and he was forced into the fight by dana white.

Pssst... I think YOU'RE the one that needs to do research.

 

[Infinity]

Brock Lesnar is the most over hyped fighter in the history of UFC, and perhaps the 2nd most over hyped fighter of all time behind Bob Sapp. He did great things for UFC's popularity, and anybody that denies that isn't thinking clearly... but that's it. He wasn't some kind of MMA pioneer, terrible record, and his victories don't hold up compared to current Heavyweights like JDS.

 

[helio]

It is unfair that his record overshadows his opponents. Nobody in the history of MMA has faced such household names in just the beginning of their careers. For that he is not only a UFC legend but a MMA legend.

Brock Lesnar is the most over hyped fighter in the history of UFC, and perhaps the 2nd most over hyped fighter of all time behind Bob Sapp. He did great things for UFC's popularity, and anybody that denies that isn't thinking clearly... but that's it. He wasn't some kind of MMA pioneer, terrible record, and his victories don't hold up compared to current Heavyweights like JDS.

JDS could not get the job done on finishing Carwin, atleast Brock finished him.

 

[INDYjon22]

I was never a huge fan of Brock Lesnar the MMA star, but the fact of the matter is he is a Hall of Famer. Don't judge his record for being 5-3, but judge the quality of opponents he defeated. He was thrown to the dogs and he survived, as a champion no less. Mir, Couture, Herring, Carwin were all victims to Lesnar, and the only guys to beat him were Mir, Cain and Overeem, all top guys as well. Not to mention all of the attention Lesnar brought to MMA, as well as money. The dude was a bonafide draw and a badass to boot. He is a hall of famer.

 

[Infinity]

You guys defending him on "quality of opponents" are really not making sense to me. You know what happens to people who fight people that are consistently better than they are? They start losing. Brock won the title from an old, over the hill, greatly undersized Randy Couture.

That Randy Couture would not have lasted 1 round with the likes of Cain Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos, or even an Alistair Overeem (who will still be a problem in the division when he returns from suspension).

So Lesnar being inexperienced fighting in the UFC is a plus? No. It's not. He proved that he coasted by mostly on his freakish strength and wrestling ability, but when forced to adapt and continue growing as a fighter... he could not. He never once showed me a moment where I thought to myself "Wow, Brock has arrived."

He defeated Carwin after getting his ass handed to him in the first round, and used a choke that they teach every single amateur wrestler because of the positioning they'll have. The Mir fight at UFC 100 just went on to prove to me that Frank Mir will probably never be UFC champ again.

You guys would put him in the Hall of Fame because he was a famous athlete who transitioned to MMA and got pretty good. He was never great, he was never dominant, he was never the pound for pound best, he was never anything except a Champion who got a shot too soon. Dana wouldn't give Glover Teixieira a shot at the title yet, but he's soooo much better than Brock. Just not as famous.