Heavyweight Rankings

[IrishCanadian25]

The top ten rankings for Heavyweights are those of Sherdog.com, and do not neccesarilly reflect the opinions of Wrestlezone.com, Wrestlezone Forms, IrishCanadian25, the Santino Marella Fan-a-Club, or its affiliates. Comments are those of the thread starter, however.

1. Fedor Emelianenko, 30-1. The consensus #1. Has been criticized in the past for facing a lower level of competition, but his next defense is against the #2 ranked HW.

2. Josh Barnett, 24-5. A former UFC Heavyweight Champ, Barnett will fight Fedor at the Affliction PPV August 1st.

3. Frank Mir, 12-3. Fast approaching his fight with Brock Lesnar on July 11th for the Unified UFC Heavyweight Title. Mir is off of his knee injury and says he feels good.

4. Antonio Nogueira, 31-5-1. Despite his recent loss to Mir, ARN remains a top-5 talent and a danger in the UFC HW division. At UFC 102, he will fight Randy Couture, in a match up of two guys whose best days may well be behind them.

5. Brock Lesnar, 3-1. The man who won the UFC HW Title in his 4th fight, a win over Couture. He now has a shot to avenge his only loss - vs Mir - and unify the UFC HW Titles. Take that, Vince!

6. Randy Couture, 16-9. The appearance of the 40-something Couture at the 6th spot after losing the HW Title to Lesnar may be a short-lived event with a fight against Nogueira coming up.

7. Brett Rogers, 10-0. A relative unknown, this hard-hitter with hands of stone knocked out former UFC HW Champ Andrei Arlovski in 22 seconds.

8. Andrei Arlovski, 15-7. The fact that a man coming off crushing losses to Fedor and Rogers is still ranked 7th just shows how much the HW division lacks depth. AA is in desperate need of a comeback or a retirement, either or.

9. Shane Carwin, 11-0. Still undefeated after an improbable win over Gabriel Gonzaga, Carwin is looking to make a move into contendership in the UFC.

10. Alistair Overeem, 29-11. The Strikeforce HW Champ will put his title on the line against Brett Rogers in the coming months, barring another hand injury.

Thoughts:

Tim Sylvia, we hardly knew thee...

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Rankings are bullshit. Especially when most of the fighters are from different promotions.

The only top 10 ranking that I could possibly take seriously is a UFC fighter only one, and only after most had faced each other.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

MMA Rankings are better and more objective that the WWE method of inexplicable title matches. I agree with most of these rankings, and it shows there is a world outside of UFC.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

MMA rankings are based on wins. Most wrestling ones would be as well.

Nogueira hasn't had a fight in 8 months. He hasn't had a win in longer. He must be that high on reputation and heart alone.

 

[jmt225]

MMA Rankings are better and more objective that the WWE method of inexplicable title matches. I agree with most of these rankings, and it shows there is a world outside of UFC.

Andrei Arlovski being in the top 10 really hurts its credibility, though. The only people he's beaten since his last two losses against Tim Silva (a huge fucking joke in the sport, I might add) were nobodies, and the guy also gets completely embarrassed in his last two fights.

You see, rankings aren't suppose to show any favoritism, but having Andrei Arlovski in the top 10 shows that MMA rankings do show favoritism. People like the guy, including myself, but he should be on NO ONE's top 10 list. Alistair Overeem, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, even fucking Cro Cop, and many others deserve to be past Arlovski at this point.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I wonder if Arlovski's ranking is just due to past success. And I do mean PAST. But as I said in my comments, it shows you the lack of depth in the division. I put Arlovski in the same sentence as "Liddel" and "Hughes" right now - best days long gone, losing their legacy.

Most of the "smart" heavyweights are moving down to Light Heavyweight, even though they are moving into an arguably tougher class. Evans did it, and he became a champ. Ryan Bader did it, I give him 3 or 4 years before he wears some gold.

 

[Marquis]

Arlovski's ranking is do too lack of depth, nothing more. Really he shouldn't even be ranked, hes lost his last two fights. One of them being to a slow one dimensional striker in Rogers, and has lost twice in a row to Sylvia. The same man who got knocked out by Roy fuckin Mercer in a MMA match! Slyvia is a fuckin disgrace. Really as Jmt said, Alistair Overeem, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, deserve to be ranked higher then him. Although i disagree with CroCop. I love the man, hes my all time favorite fighter and all, but he basically beat two cans and really was getting destroyed by Overeem in his last fight with him. So yeah my man CroCop shouldn't be placed higher then Arlovski even if he has fallen.

All in all, this division is pretty depleted. Besides the top five, no one else should truly be ranked. Overeem? beat three cans with horrible records since losing to Sergei. His only notable win as of late is Buentello, which isn't saying much either. Shane Carwin? Another person who holds wins over nobodies and cans besides one victory, Gonzaga. Cain Velasquez I'll give some credit, but its being generous. Hes only real notable win is Kongo, and O'Brien if you want to be generous. This is sadly the only division in MMA that is in this state, and its mostly due to the fact that a good number of quality HW's fight outside of the UFC. In the UFC every division from top to bottom has the best of the best. There's a few rogues out there like Shields, Lawler, Diaz, and Mousasi, but outside of Diaz and Mousasi, i don't even think the other two would survive in the UFC. The UFC has every division stacked really, except for HW sadly. Which is usually the main attraction for most sports. Though with the HW pool running low outside of the UFC, and the UFC one growing. Soon HW's outside of the UFC won't have much of a choice but to sign with the UFC if they want to fight top competition.

 

[Uncle Sam]

1. Fedor Emelianenko (30-1, 1 NC)

2. Josh Barnett (24-5)

3. Brock Lesnar (4-1)

4. Frank Mir (12-4)

5. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (31-5-1, 1 NC)

6. Randy Couture (16-9)

7. Brett Rogers (10-0)

8. Andrei Arlovski (15-7)

9. Shane Carwin (11-0)

10. Alistair Overeem (29-11, 1 NC)

The new heavyweight top ten. Obviously, Lesnar climbs after defeating Mir... and Mir falls. The movement isn't dramatic, but it's something.

Fedor/Barnett could shake things up a bit more, perhaps even allowing our dear Mr. Lesnar to take the number two position, setting up the megafight that we've all been waiting for. Well, some of us.

 

[jmt225]

Fedor/Barnett could shake things up a bit more, perhaps even allowing our dear Mr. Lesnar to take the number two position, setting up the megafight that we've all been waiting for. Well, some of us.

Sam... you need to read the Affliction thread. Fedor/Barnett is off, because Barnett failed a drug test. Fedor will now be facing Vitor Belfort, who excepted the fight on a week's notice and will move up two weight classes to fight Fedor.

So, yeah... if Fedor loses, Lesnar will be the top Heavyweight in the World and it will be indisputable.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I read something about someone being failed on another forum. Turns out it was steroids, right? Suppose that's a conversation for another thread.

But anyway, yeah. I suppose wrestling fans should hope that Belfort gets a lucky punch... or thousand.

 

[BaconBits]

Fedor hasn't fought anybody worth anything in at least three years. He is so wildly overrated by MMA dorks who don't want to admit a former pro wrestler is better than their patron saint that it's sickening. To be ranked number 1, beat somebody, anybody worth mentioning. Arlovski and Sylvia are both glass jawed jokes these days (see Sylvia's 8 second fight with the ancient Ray Mercer and Arlovski's beatdown from the relatively untested Brett Rogers) and those are Fedor's latest wins, and people think he's somehow still fighting quality opponents? Lesnar and Mir have both defeated more relevant opponents amongst themselves in the past 2 years than Fedor has since the Pride days.

Seeing as how Lesnar defeated Mir at 100, he should be ranked, right now as top overall heavyweight. Mir should be second. Then maybe Fedor. Then Couture and Big Nog, depending on who wins their upcoming fight, Then maybe Carwin, Overeem, Dos Santos, Rogers and Velasquez.

Oh, and before you go on that "respect for past achievements" speech. Think of this...

If we went on past achievements, guys like Ken Shamrock, Royce Gracie, Don Frye, and Jens Pulver would have to still be ranked in their respective weight classes. Rankings should be based on your fights in the last two to three years...

 

[Marquis]

Fedor hasn't fought anybody worth anything in at least three years. He is so wildly overrated by MMA dorks who don't want to admit a former pro wrestler is better than their patron saint that it's sickening.

You mean mister 4-1? Who's only top two wins happens to be Couture, and Mir who he's 1-1 against?

To be ranked number 1, beat somebody, anybody worth mentioning.

He did beat someone worth mentioning, Arlovski. Ranked 2nd heavyweight in the world at the time when Fedor fought him.

Arlovski and Sylvia are both glass jawed jokes these days (see Sylvia's 8 second fight with the ancient Ray Mercer and Arlovski's beatdown from the relatively untested Brett Rogers) and those are Fedor's latest wins, and people think he's somehow still fighting quality opponents?

I underlined the words "these days" since when Fedor fought them they weren't jokes. Arlovski may have fallen now, but that's because he's obviously not in the right state of mind. Just a few weeks ago a report about him playing suicide games came out. Arlovski in the Rogers fight ran straight back with his hands hand down and head straight. Arlovski didn't even attempt to dodge those punches, even YOU would have put your hands up most likely. Arlovski was a serious contender when Fedor fought him earning him ranked 2nd heavyweight spot. Now he's obviously not doing well in his head so it shows. Besides Roger's is untested really, for all we know he can be some phenom.

Lesnar and Mir have both defeated more relevant opponents amongst themselves in the past 2 years than Fedor has since the Pride days.

What? Lesnar's only two notable wins are Couture and Mir. He happens to be 1-1 against Mir, two credible wins against not even ranked 2nd heavyweights puts him at number one? And Mir is 3-1 these past 2-3 years. His two notable wins were a weird big Nog, and a rookie Brock Lesnar who only had ONE fight under his belt. Being 3-1 with wins over Nog, and Lesnar when he was 1-0 puts you at number 2 or 1?

Seeing as how Lesnar defeated Mir at 100, he should be ranked, right now as top overall heavyweight. Mir should be second. Then maybe Fedor. Then Couture and Big Nog, depending on who wins their upcoming fight, Then maybe Carwin, Overeem, Dos Santos, Rogers and Velasquez.

I wasn't aware a win over Mir shoots you to number 1, especially when Lesnar is 1-1 against him.

Oh, and before you go on that "respect for past achievements" speech. Think of this...

If we went on past achievements, guys like Ken Shamrock, Royce Gracie, Don Frye, and Jens Pulver would have to still be ranked in their respective weight classes. Rankings should be based on your fights in the last two to three years...

The difference is unlike some of those guys you mentioned Fedor is not on a losing streak or a slump. And is still fighting top heavyweights. He beat Arlovski in January, and was gonna fight Barnett this month who happened to be ranked the 2nd heavyweight in the world also when him and Fedor were going to fight.

 

[BaconBits]

You mean mister 4-1? Who's only top two wins happens to be Couture, and Mir who he's 1-1 against?

Beating Couture and Mir is more relevant than anything Fedor has done since the Pride days.

He did beat someone worth mentioning, Arlovski. Ranked 2nd heavyweight in the world at the time when Fedor fought him.

Right. Rankings were skewed to make it seem like Arlovski was a great opponent. Kinda like they did to Barnett. No way was he worthy of number two. He hadn't fought anybody worth mentioning in quite some time either.

I underlined the words "these days" since when Fedor fought them they weren't jokes. Arlovski may have fallen now, but that's because he's obviously not in the right state of mind. Just a few weeks ago a report about him playing suicide games came out. Arlovski in the Rogers fight ran straight back with his hands hand down and head straight. Arlovski didn't even attempt to dodge those punches, even YOU would have put your hands up most likely. Arlovski was a serious contender when Fedor fought him earning him ranked 2nd heavyweight spot. Now he's obviously not doing well in his head so it shows. Besides Roger's is untested really, for all we know he can be some phenom.

Again, Arlovski was pumped up in the rankings because he was fighting Fedor. If he would have been fighting Lesnar, he would have most likely been an underdog in that one too. I will give you that Rogers is likely to be a beast, though.

What? Lesnar's only two notable wins are Couture and Mir. He happens to be 1-1 against Mir, two credible wins against not even ranked 2nd heavyweights puts him at number one? And Mir is 3-1 these past 2-3 years. His two notable wins were a weird big Nog, and a rookie Brock Lesnar who only had ONE fight under his belt. Being 3-1 with wins over Nog, and Lesnar when he was 1-0 puts you at number 2 or 1?

Yup, sounds about right. At least Mir's and Couture's fights were against real competition.

I wasn't aware a win over Mir shoots you to number 1, especially when Lesnar is 1-1 against him.

Yes, that win should shoot Lesnar to number one. At least it's someone relevant. Fedor hasn't done that in at least 4 years. He'd much rather fight punks and put on "grappling exhibitions" with 155er's.

The difference is unlike some of those guys you mentioned Fedor is not on a losing streak or a slump. And is still fighting top heavyweights. He beat Arlovski in January, and was gonna fight Barnett this month who happened to be ranked the 2nd heavyweight in the world also when him and Fedor were going to fight.

He's not fighting top heavyweights. No way in hell Barnett is worthy of number two. No way in hell Arlovski was worthy of number two. Tim Sylvia (who coincidentally had his arm broken by, uh, Frank Mir?)...Really?

C'mon now, mma snobs don't want to hear it, but Fedor's best days were 4 years ago, and the rankings should reflect that. I believe current rankings should be all about what have you done lately, not your career body of work. All time rankings? Yes, Fedor is far and away number one, but 2009 rankings? Not a chance. Do something to deserve it, and I'm sorry, grappling with Shinya Aoki, choking the most overated heavyweight in history, and knocking out an overrated dumbass who left his chin wide open is not something. It's a fucking joke.

 

[Marquis]

Beating Couture and Mir is more relevant than anything Fedor has done since the Pride days.

We are talking about rankings here, Lesnar is 1-1 against Mir, he lost to him. Is a lose, then a win over Mir, and a win over Couture so above Arlovski who was ranked 2nd at the time? Lesnar hasn't even stayed undefeated.

Right. Rankings were skewed to make it seem like Arlovski was a great opponent. Kinda like they did to Barnett. No way was he worthy of number two. He hadn't fought anybody worth mentioning in quite some time either.

Arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak with notable wins over Werdum, Rothwell, and Nelson. Those are all fine wins for a split heavyweight division.

Again, Arlovski was pumped up in the rankings because he was fighting Fedor. If he would have been fighting Lesnar, he would have most likely been an underdog in that one too. I will give you that Rogers is likely to be a beast, though.

Well chances are most who fight Lesnar will be a underdog. Arlovski might have gotten a boost up there perhaps, but his wins justify it. It might not seem like a amazing set wins, but the heavyweight division outside and inside the UFC is split. So when you have a division that's so scattered, those are fine wins to justify you being number 2.

Yup, sounds about right. At least Mir's and Couture's fights were against real competition.

I'm guessing you mean Lesnar instead of Couture? Or are you now ranking Couture above Fedor also?

We are talking about rankings, how does beating a unranked Lesnar I'm sure with one win count for anything? Maybe it did boost him up the rankings a bit, but at the end of the day Lesnar was a green 1-0 fighter, A win over him does not mean as much as you make it to be. Nog was a fair win, but you can't tell me Nog looked the same. Ever since he's been out of Pride Nog hasn't been what he used to be obviously, but in that fight he basically stood there and got him, but it's a win nonetheless. I don't see how a just credible win over Nog these past 2-3 years puts him at number 1 or 2.

Yes, that win should shoot Lesnar to number one. At least it's someone relevant. Fedor hasn't done that in at least 4 years. He'd much rather fight punks and put on "grappling exhibitions" with 155er's.

How is Mir any more relevant then Arlovski at the time? Is a win over Hardonk mean that much? I doubt it, can't be worth any more then one of the 5 heavyweights Arlovski fought. A win over a unranked 1-0 Lesnar? Doesn't mean a thing. That leaves only his win over Nog. I wasn't aware a man Fedor destroyed twice in his prime made Mir worth so much.

He's not fighting top heavyweights. No way in hell Barnett is worthy of number two. No way in hell Arlovski was worthy of number two. Tim Sylvia (who coincidentally had his arm broken by, uh, Frank Mir?)...Really?

I did not mention Sylvia, although Fedor destroyed him quick, Sylvia is still pretty much a joke, even though I believe at one point he was much less of one. Arlovski I pointed out earlier why I believe he deserved his ranked 2nd spot. As for Barnett, with the Heavyweight division the way it is he was the best choice for number 2. Most likely you will see Lesnar ranked number 2 now coming off UFC 100 instead of Barnett.

C'mon now, mma snobs don't want to hear it, but Fedor's best days were 4 years ago, and the rankings should reflect that. I believe current rankings should be all about what have you done lately, not your career body of work. All time rankings? Yes, Fedor is far and away number one, but 2009 rankings? Not a chance. Do something to deserve it, and I'm sorry, grappling with Shinya Aoki, choking the most overated heavyweight in history, and knocking out an overrated dumbass who left his chin wide open is not something. It's a fucking joke.

Grappling with Shinya I'm sure doesn't take away anything from when he fights, it's just a exhibition, won't push back any fights. I'll give you overrated for Sylvia, but Arlovski is actually pretty damn underrated with all the shit he gets. Arlovski was doing fine against Fedor, although he didn't land many clean shots at all, at least Arlovski was holding his own and pushing the pace. He made one mistake and payed for it, he went for a stupid flying knee and got caught. And getting knocked up by Fedor and Roger's means you have a glasschin? Fedor knocked Sylvia down in the first 30 seconds of the fight with his fists. That's impressive since Sylvia has been knocked out how many times in his career? Only against Mercer that I'm aware of. As for Roger's, the man has a huge reach, weighs 265 pounds(for all we know he cuts to that weight), and all his wins came via KO. It's obvious Roger's punches like a fuckin truck. I don't see how getting knocked out by Fedor and Roger's these past recent years makes you have a glass chin.

 

[jmt225]

You always leave out Lesnar's domination over Heath Herring when talking about his accomplishments, Marquis. Seriously, that shit didn't impress you? Herring is a hell of a fighter, and Brock dominated him like he was nothing, just like Fedor did in PRIDE back in 2002. And personally, I'd take Herring over Hunt, Lindland, Hong-Man Choi, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski any day of the fucking week. Just sayin'

Overall, I agree that it's too soon to rank Lesnar past Fedor, but my ultimate point here is.... if Lesnar gets 2 or 3 big more wins under his belt, and Fedor only fights a couple of cans by that point, Lesnar should be ahead of him in the rankings, and the win over Herring should be a reason why he is, because that win was VERY fucking impressive.

 

[Marquis]

You always leave out Lesnar's domination over Heath Herring when talking about his accomplishments, Marquis. Seriously, that shit didn't impress you?

Should it? Herring isn't even a top 10 heavyweight. He's lost most if not all of his fights against top heavyweights.

Herring is a hell of a fighter, and Brock dominated him like he was nothing, just like Fedor did in PRIDE back in 2002. And personally, I'd take Herring over Hunt, Lindland, Hong-Man Choi, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski any day of the fucking week. Just sayin'

Lol, Herring over Arlovski? It's seriously sad how underrated he's become. Herring was getting out striked by a slower slightly past his prime nog, and you don't think Arlovski can out strike and knock out Herring? Keep in mind Nog only used boxing as stand up during that fight, which I'm sure Arlovski has better boxing.

Overall, I agree that it's too soon to rank Lesnar past Fedor, but my ultimate point here is.... if Lesnar gets 2 or 3 big more wins under his belt, and Fedor only fights a couple of cans by that point, Lesnar should be ahead of him in the rankings,

I can't disagree with his. It is too soon for Lesnar, but if he gets 2 more credible wins under his belt, while Fedor fights cans, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lesnar number 1. Luckily Fedor has Roger's, Werdum, and Overeem lined up for him. No cans there.

and the win over Herring should be a reason why he is, because that win was VERY fucking impressive.

You are really overrating Herring.

 

[jmt225]

Should it? Herring isn't even a top 10 heavyweight. He's lost most if not all of his fights against top heavyweights.

As I've told you thousands of times at this point, those joke ass ratings mean jackshit to me. I look at it from a skill stand point, and Heath Herring is a very talented fucking fighter.

Lol, Herring over Arlovski? It's seriously sad how underrated he's become. Herring was getting out striked by a slower slightly past his prime nog, and you don't think Arlovski can out strike and knock out Herring? Keep in mind Nog only used boxing as stand up during that fight, which I'm sure Arlovski has better boxing.

All Herring would need is one shot, and the lights are out for Arlovski. And he would eventually get that shot; I guarantee it. Arlovski doesn't have the same chin Nogueira has, and I would put my life on it that Arlovski couldn't knock out Herring.

I can't disagree with his. It is too soon for Lesnar, but if he gets 2 more credible wins under his belt, while Fedor fights cans, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lesnar number 1. Luckily Fedor has Roger's, Werdum, and Overeem lined up for him. No cans there.

As we've discussed before, all the chips have to fall into the right place for all those fights to happen, so you never know. All it takes is a failed drug test, or an injury during training, and there's no choice but to book Fedor against a can since the options are limited.

You are really overrating Herring.

Eh, not in my opinion. I really respect Herring. He hasn't lived up to his full potential, but overall... he's still a very talented fighter and one of the toughest men in the sport.

 

[Marquis]

As I've told you thousands of times at this point, those joke ass ratings mean jackshit to me. I look at it from a skill stand point, and Heath Herring is a very talented fucking fighter.

I forget how I have to go by YOUR rankings when we argue. Name me a top heavyweight he's beaten to make you think so much of him. Really, who the fuck has he beaten? Herring's most notable win is probably Kongo.

All Herring would need is one shot, and the lights are out for Arlovski. And he would eventually get that shot; I guarantee it. Arlovski doesn't have the same chin Nogueira has, and I would put my life on it that Arlovski couldn't knock out Herring.

Nogueira had Herring moving backwards through out most of the fight. And this is a after pride Nog we're talking about. If Nog can have Herring running back, and away from his boxing, then Arlovski would knock out Herring. Both Nog and Arlovski have the same reach, Arlovski is faster, and has better boxing. Arlovski doesn't need his chin when fighting Herring, in the 2nd round of the Herring Vs. Nog fight, I can't even recall a clean face shot landing on Nog. Arlovski would keep the pressure on Herring and have him keep moving backwards just like Nog did. Difference is Arlovski would give Herring even last time to react since his boxing is better, and his hands are faster.

As we've discussed before, all the chips have to fall into the right place for all those fights to happen, so you never know. All it takes is a failed drug test, or an injury during training, and there's no choice but to book Fedor against a can since the options are limited.

Same could be said for any of Lesnar opponents.

 

[jmt225]

I forget how I have to go by YOUR rankings when we argue.

Yep, get use to it.

Name me a top heavyweight he's beaten to make you think so much of him. Really, who the fuck has he beaten? Herring's most notable win is probably Kongo.

And who has Arlovski beaten? Oh yeah, that's right... nobody, though I'm sure you'll try, once again, to put guys like Werdum and Nelson over as something special.

The fact is... Herring has been in there with the very best the sport has ever had to offer, and always put up a good fight. Can't say the same for Arlovski. This is a guy who loses to Tim Sylvia twice, and when he finally does step in there with someone great, he gets knocked the fuck out in the first minute of the fight.

Nogueira had Herring moving backwards through out most of the fight. And this is a after pride Nog we're talking about. If Nog can have Herring running back, and away from his boxing, then Arlovski would knock out Herring. Both Nog and Arlovski have the same reach, Arlovski is faster, and has better boxing. Arlovski doesn't need his chin when fighting Herring, in the 2nd round of the Herring Vs. Nog fight, I can't even recall a clean face shot landing on Nog. Arlovski would keep the pressure on Herring and have him keep moving backwards just like Nog did. Difference is Arlovski would give Herring even last time to react since his boxing is better, and his hands are faster.

Wait a second here. You mean to tell me you really believe Arlovski would knock out someone who has never been knockout in his entire career and has 43 fights to his name against some of the toughest talent this sport will ever see? You really believe that, Marquis? Come on now. If Arlovski did defeat Herring, and boy that's a HUGE if, then he would do so by fighting like Machida. You know, hit and run. But Arlovski isn't that smart, and because of that.... he would get knocked out against Herring.

Boy talking about this wants me to add Herring to my list of people I want out of their UFC Contract just so he could prove me right and go to Strikeforce and knock that clown out, lol.

Same could be said for any of Lesnar opponents.

Not really. There's always going to be a credible back up for him to fight, or at least more credible fighters than a company like Strikeforce has to offer.

 

[Marquis]

Yep, get use to it.

And who has Arlovski beaten? Oh yeah, that's right... nobody, though I'm sure you'll try, once again, to put guys like Werdum and Nelson over as something special.

Werdum, Nelson, and Rothwell silly. Can't forget Rothwell. I would put a win over Werdum way above a win over Kongo. The other two are even with Kongo.

The fact is... Herring has been in there with the very best the sport has ever had to offer, and always put up a good fight. Can't say the same for Arlovski. This is a guy who loses to Tim Sylvia twice, and when he finally does step in there with someone great, he gets knocked the fuck out in the first minute of the fight.

He's been in there with the best and lost, hence why I don't think much of him. It's been 3 years since Arlovski fought Sylvia, crazy thing, but you know Arlovkski has actually improved since then. Most notably his stand up.

Wait a second here. You mean to tell me you really believe Arlovski would knock out someone who has never been knockout in his entire career and has 43 fights to his name against some of the toughest talent this sport will ever see? You really believe that, Marquis?

Sure do. See after 43 fights, your chin does deteriorate. Also Arlovski knocked out both Buentello and Nelson for the first time in their careers if I'm correct.

Come on now. If Arlovski did defeat Herring, and boy that's a HUGE if, then he would do so by fighting like Machida. You know, hit and run. But Arlovski isn't that smart, and because of that.... he would get knocked out against Herring.

No I actually think he would fight exactly like Nog, but do it better since his boxing is better and faster.

Boy talking about this wants me to add Herring to my list of people I want out of their UFC Contract just so he could prove me right and go to Strikeforce and knock that clown out, lol.

Well I'm sure he'll go on a losing streak soon enough and be released .

Not really. There's always going to be a credible back up for him to fight, or at least more credible fighters than a company like Strikeforce has to offer.

I named 3 heavyweights who can replace each other at anytime if shit goes down. Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem. And if they're desperate Barnett. All fine credible heavyweights. I would think almost as many contenders as the UFC has to offer Lesnar.

 

[jmt225]

Honestly though man, you're a fan of basketball, right? Well, let me ask you this.... how come nearly every year only one or two of the 'Top Seeds' in the NCAA Bracket make it to the Final Four? It's because rankings don't equal skill. Just because a team of "experts" (and man... to call any 'journalist' of MMA an expert is really fucking pushing it) put together a list of whose the best and who isn't, doesn't mean they are that. My opinion, and yours too Marquis, are just as valid as theirs.

Werdum, Nelson, and Rothwell silly. Can't forget Rothwell. I would put a win over Werdum way above a win over Kongo. The other two are even with Kongo.

Rothwell has an impressive record, but he hasn't beaten anyone worth noting. Neither has Nelson. Werdum has a couple of impressive victories, but he has a couple of bad losses to his name as well. So, again... I don't buy this argument that Arlovski defeated talent that actually justifies him being the 2nd best Heavyweight in the World at the time he fought Fedor.

He's been in there with the best and lost, hence why I don't think much of him.

Yeah he lost, but he put up good fights. Better fights than Arlovski would've put up, that's for sure. And Arlovski's fight against Fedor and Rogers prove that to be a fact.

It's been 3 years since Arlovski fought Sylvia, crazy thing, but you know Arlovkski has actually improved since then. Most notably his stand up.

His chin is still shit, and he's not right in the head, either, both personally and professionally. Arlovski might have the footwork and handspeed of Manny Pacquiao for all I know, but if you don't have the chin or smarts to go with it, then it doesn't matter.

Sure do. See after 43 fights, your chin does deteriorate.

Yeah, if you get dropped repeatedly, but that hasn't happened often with Herring. I'm sure his chin is still in tact. After all, while he might have been in 43 MMA fights, he's still only 31-years-old.

Also Arlovski knocked out both Buentello and Nelson for the first time in their careers if I'm correct.

Oh my God, Buentello, man? That guy fucking sucks. And Roy Nelson, that fight was a joke. Nelson easily passed Arlovski's guard, got side control, was just getting to work, and the bitch ref stood them up. That would fuck ANYBODY up, especially someone like Nelson who took the fight in a couple of days notice.

Besides, neither fighter comes close to having the same reputation as Herring does, as far as having a chin is concerned.

I named 3 heavyweights who can replace each other at anytime if shit goes down. Rogers, Werdum, and Overeem. And if they're desperate Barnett. All fine credible heavyweights. I would think almost as many contenders as the UFC has to offer Lesnar.

Well, I guess you're right that Lesnar and the UFC could end up in the same predicament, but they've been able to dodge those sort of bullets in the past, whereas I don't think a company like Strikeforce would be able to.

 

[Marquis]

Honestly though man, you're a fan of basketball, right? Well, let me ask you this.... how come nearly every year only one or two of the 'Top Seeds' in the NCAA Bracket make it to the Final Four? It's because rankings don't equal skill. Just because a team of "experts" (and man... to call any 'journalist' of MMA an expert is really fucking pushing it) put together a list of whose the best and who isn't, doesn't mean they are that. My opinion, and yours too Marquis, are just as valid as theirs.

Well that analogy went over my head since I don't watch NCAA basketball, only NBA, but anyway. I see what you're saying, but I don't see how you can put Herring in the top 10 when his only notable win is Kongo.

Rothwell has an impressive record, but he hasn't beaten anyone worth noting.

SoszynskiX2, Nelson, and Ricco Rodriguez.

Neither has Nelson.

I'll give you that. His look is probably why he's a known name

Werdum has a couple of impressive victories, but he has a couple of bad losses to his name as well. So, again... I don't buy this argument that Arlovski defeated talent that actually justifies him being the 2nd best Heavyweight in the World at the time he fought Fedor.

Well as you said, Werdum has impressive wins, but I'm not sure what these bad loses are? The only thing that can be considered close to a bad lose on his record is Dos Santos, which is damn stupid in my opinion if you consider it a bad lose. Dos Santos is a Purple belt under Nog, is a kickboxing champion in his country, and is under the tutelage of Anderson fuckin Silva and Big Nog. I don't see how there is any shame in losing to him, or how it's considered a bad lose. A bad lose is getting knocked out by Matt Serra, that's a bad lose. Losing to probably the greatest prospect at heavyweight in the UFC? I see no shame in that. Werdum is a damn impressive win for Arlovski.

Yeah he lost, but he put up good fights. Better fights than Arlovski would've put up, that's for sure. And Arlovski's fight against Fedor and Rogers prove that to be a fact

.
Arlovski was putting up a great fight against Fedor. He may have not been landing much, but he was pushing the pace against Fedor and giving him little time to react. He threw a flying knee, and it ended the fight. He made a stupid move and payed for it, but before that he was doing fine. I have no excuse for Roger's, that win still pisses me off. Arlovski GAVE him that knockout. He walked back with his hands down, and no head movement. Arlovski was asking for that knockout. I honestly think a boxer like Arlovski knows better, but like I pointed out, he was playing suicide games recently. I don't think he's been in the right state of mind since losing to fedor.

His chin is still shit, and he's not right in the head, either, both personally and professionally. Arlovski might have the footwork and handspeed of Manny Pacquiao for all I know, but if you don't have the chin or smarts to go with it, then it doesn't matter.

Look I understand the guy's been knocked out, but he's been knocked out by some notable strikers. Also at heavyweight chances are most punches can be fatal since these are big fuckers you're fighting. His chin is granite by no means, but I don't think it's glass either.

Yeah, if you get dropped repeatedly, but that hasn't happened often with Herring. I'm sure his chin is still in tact. After all, while he might have been in 43 MMA fights, he's still only 31-years-old.

Age shouldn't matter. Nog is young, and looks like he's close to 50. As for Herring, Herring does get cut often I noticed. To get cut you need to get hit, I'm sure he's taken a good amount of punishment.

Oh my God, Buentello, man? That guy fucking sucks. And Roy Nelson, that fight was a joke. Nelson easily passed Arlovski's guard, got side control, was just getting to work, and the bitch ref stood them up. That would fuck ANYBODY up, especially someone like Nelson who took the fight in a couple of days notice.

I agree with everything you said, but that wasn't my point at all. My point was he has knocked out people for the first time in their careers.

Besides, neither fighter comes close to having the same reputation as Herring does, as far as having a chin is concerned.

Buentello was at his 28th fight when Arlovski knocked him out, I'm sure he's taken some form of punishment during those 27 fights before Arlovski.

Well, I guess you're right that Lesnar and the UFC could end up in the same predicament, but they've been able to dodge those sort of bullets in the past, whereas I don't think a company like Strikeforce would be able to.

I think Strikeforce could dodge those bullets. Like I said, they have 3 contenders for the belt. Four if they get desperate and throw in Barnett. Four or three contenders is probably the same amount of heavyweight contenders the UFC can cough up.

 

[BaconBits]

Fedor is fighting RICCO FUCKING RODRIGUEZ in his next fight. What a fucking joke.

Every move he makes sullies his reputation. I'd bump him down two more spots in the rankings just for that. He's proving he doesn't want to fight a credible opponent.

 

[Marquis]

Fedor is fighting RICCO FUCKING RODRIGUEZ in his next fight. What a fucking joke.

Every move he makes sullies his reputation. I'd bump him down two more spots in the rankings just for that. He's proving he doesn't want to fight a credible opponent.

It's just a rumor. No official confirmation yet for this, and I see it very unlikely. They have 3 credible heavyweights for Fedor to fight in Overeem, Werdum, and Roger's. Fedor if I remember correctly has 3 fights left on his M-1 contract. So I don't see him wasting one of those fights on Ricco, instead of one of the 3 heavyweights I mentioned. I think Ricco will most likely fight one of the 3 heavyweights I mentioned without a fight for October.

 

[BaconBits]

It's just a rumor. No official confirmation yet for this, and I see it very unlikely. They have 3 credible heavyweights for Fedor to fight in Overeem, Werdum, and Roger's. Fedor if I remember correctly has 3 fights left on his M-1 contract. So I don't see him wasting one of those fights on Ricco, instead of one of the 3 heavyweights I mentioned. I think Ricco will most likely fight one of the 3 heavyweights I mentioned without a fight for October.

I do see him fighting Ricco, in fact I almost guarantee it happens. Finklestein wants this fight so he can say Fedor has beaten three former UFC champions. Like anybody who doesn't whack off to Fedor posters even cares. It's not going to improve Fedor's already woeful drawing power or improve his rapidly deteriorating reputation.

I don't think Fedor will ever fight Rogers. He's got a very legit shot to get KTFO'd in that one, and Finklestein knows it. Fedor already draws like shit, and a knockout loss would reduce that draw even further, and bury both SF and M-1, and probably even lead to bankruptcy for both companies. Nobody will sign him if that were to happen, meaning no co-promotion with anybody, and Fedor making pennies on the dollar compared to what he used to, meaning Finklestein doesn't make any money. It's pretty simple.