Racism in TNA: Are They "Crossing the Line"?

[TheErikMoonShow]

So I decided to give Tna Impact another shot after several years of just not being a fan of the product. And before I go any farther I am very aware of the racial overtone the WWE has also shown in the past. However they have never once been as direct as what I saw this week on impact.

This is the first time I ever post my own thread so I will try to be as informative as possible. On thursday Impact aired a segment with Dvon and the Pope with tag team champs Crimson and Morgan. At the end of the promo Pope called them "the biggest dumbest most ignorant honkeys weve ever seen" and while Ive heard pope make such a comment before I realized this time to me it wasnt funny. No one in impact zone laughed. It was a statement being made in anger. It was flat out racist. If Morgan called them monkeys or used the n word while calling them big dumb and ignorant Jesse Jackson would march on washington to have TNA burned. I find it tasteless and wrong.

My question is this: Did anyone else find it to be hypocritical and offensive?

And: Should action be taken to show that Racism toward any type of person should not be tolerated no matter where a person originates from?

Please discuss as I think this is a serious subject often overlooked because people dont see slurs vs "caucasions" to hold any bearing.

 

[Rayne]

Racism against whites is OK. Racism against other races is not. Because whites are the majority race in America (not a majority of all people, before someone leaps in), people generally don't believe you can insult a white person with a slur. Is it a double standard? Yup, but that doesn't change it. Professional wrestling beats to the pop culture drum. You might hear Mexican-America referred to as "beaners", because that's a mild slur which has become, if not accepted than dealt with. You will never hear Mexican-America referred to as "spics".

It's about driving close to the edge without going off it, which is pretty much How To Market To The 18-35 Male Audience Group 101. It's fine to say something racist, if no one was offended. It's fine to say something racist even IF someone is offended, so long as you can be sure people will buy the apology afterwards. (You will never, ever be able to pass off a white man referring to a black man as a "******" as a flawed attempt to build heat.)

This is Controversy Creates Cash, all over again. At least, that's the theory- the people pushing it are awfully circumspect with their numbers on just how much money they're making.

 

[terrylee]

Any time a racial slur sounds as ridiculous as "Honkey", then it's not so offensive.

Seriously though, no, it's not offensive. For many of the reasons Rayne stated. The N word and Honkey are not on the same level - by FAR. The N word has such powerful resonance and evokes feelings of anger, hatred, and has so many ties with the struggles African-Americans went through. Were white Americans slaves in the US? Were they considered "animals" and not equals? Nope. They were and still are the majority race. Everyone else is a minority.

This isn't even controversy. No one laughing in the Impact Zone didn't mean that they were like "OMG", it just meant that it was stupid and not funny. Not offensive though. Had it been a white person using a racial slur against a minority, then yes, it'd have been offensive. Again, because they're the minority.

 

[J.J.]

The word honky has been accepted by the majority race; "Honky tonk music", movies, references to songs, even a Wrestler named Honky Tinker Man, I heard it a lot on television shows growing up, so it has been accepted in popular culture. I don't consider the terms whitey or Honky nearly as offensive as other derogatory terms listed by the previous posters. Had it been actually offensive then i doubt creative control would've given Pope the green light. Although he did emphasize the word in the segment.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Honkey is not a racist, offensive word. Grow a sack, partner. People will get offended for nothing these days, sheesh. Funniest part is that 99% of the people wouldn't TRULY be offended even if the white racial slur was more hardcore.

The fuck do we white people have to be offended by? "A black person called me a bad word!". Well shit, that's the least he could do. I freaking HATE how sensitive people have become. You can't say anything without being labeled something. Racist, sexist, homophobic. Just sit back, enjoy the show and turn your damn brain off for a while. The world is filled with far worse things than a black guy on a wrestling show spewing out a racial slur that's not really a racial slur.

P.S: If you're gonna defend white people, at least spell "caucasians" right.

 

[hardmick33]

In my heart, as an Irish-American who's about 3 shades less white than Sheamus I completely agree. Reverse racism sucks. I live in Jersey City and I've come across plenty of situations where I've been attacked not only verbally, but physically because I'm white. It sucks and it's not a fun experience.

In my brain, are you insane? The amount of shit that other races go through is something I will never experience or understand. In the words of Louis CK "You can't even hurt my feelings!" The little things that come up, like a person being called a honky or a cracker are nothing compared to the shit I've heard and seen my black or Latino friends have to deal with.

It's all sad and wrong, really it is, but look at wrestling. The Guerreros stealing everything, Cryme Tyme (apparently they don't know the letter "i" exists) selling stolen goods, Mexicool riding lawnmowers. Hell even Ricky Steamboat was made to be a martial arts expert rather than the ridiculously amazing pure wrestler that he was simply because he "looked Asian". Yoko too.

I guess to me there have been FAR FAR more travesties by the wrestling creative teams than Pope calling someone a honky. This is definitely something that should be addressed, but why wasn't it addressed with the WM 19 angle with Booker T and HHH?

I guess what I'm saying is that yeah there's a problem, but reverse racism is at the very least helping to make 2 wrongs a right.

 

[Defekt]

My question is this: Did anyone else find it to be hypocritical and offensive?

I'm white and it doesn't offend me at all. I agree it's hypocritical. It's unfortunate.

And: Should action be taken to show that Racism toward any type of person should not be tolerated no matter where a person originates from?

No. If you're too sensitive to watch edgy TV than turn on a Disney movie. Special interest groups/thought police like the NAACP and GLAAD trying to censor entertainment is a lot bigger problem than someone on TV making a race joke.

Please discuss as I think this is a serious subject often overlooked because people dont see slurs vs "caucasions" to hold any bearing.

They don't have any bearing because there is no Caucasian special interest group to shove our agenda down everyone's throat, and threaten boycotts in order to gather attention for our cause.

I don't like racism, but I hate censorship even more.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

Traditional "racist" words and slurs have been used by the Majority race (White people in the United States) as another way of oppressing and dehumanizing a Minority race, and even to a lesser extent minority national ethnicities within the Majority race (i.e. Irish, Italian, German, Eastern European, ect.). Without the history of the words being used to oppress and dehumanize the target of such words, I don't see the offense. At what point have white people as a whole been oppressed in American history and the word "Honkey" was used to dehumanize them?

And if the future Chairman of WWE, Triple H, can get away with saying that, "Your kind of people shouldn't be Champion" to Booker T in the build up to the biggest show of the year and not cause a backlash, than I'm pretty sure that TNA/iMPACT Wrestling/Orlando Championship Wrestling could have guys come out in white robes and pointy hats and no one would bat an eye because most people don't even know that TNA even exists, let alone whats going on in a feud buried between strippers rolling around the ring in one segment and yet another never ending Jeff Jarrett feud in the next segment.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

Hell even Ricky Steamboat was made to be a martial arts expert rather than the ridiculously amazing pure wrestler that he was simply because he "looked Asian". Yoko too.

Yokozuna wasn't billed as being Japanese, or even asian, he was promoted as a Grand Champion Sumo Wrestler, a Yokozuna, from the Polynesian Islands. His Gimmick wasn't based on his race, or perceived race, it was based on his size, and the fact that in 1992, even as a morbidly obese person, he was still able to move around pretty good.

 

[Azane]

Wrestling is a racist sport by nature.

Do you not notice that gimmicks for Mexican superstars are always that they're Mexican superstars?

Do you not notice Afromerican wrestlers always have rap themes?

Do you not notice if a wrestler has an accent, it's a big part of their gimmick?

When a white person gets called white, it's really not a double standard or a big deal, ITS WRESTLING.

Letting a word offend you, simply means you're easy to offend. Sorry for offending you.

 

[ERA]

Oh GOD another internet thread about how White people are the victims get over it. It wasn't funny or offensive its TNA. Stupid horrible television.

 

[ABMorales787]

Did Matt Morgan care? No. Then neither should you. Pope said what he said and no one really cared. Besides, I really doubt "honky" can be that much of an insult in a world where the Honky Tonk Man exists. No one cared, neither should you. It's not racism if the offended party doesn't give a shit.

 

[Chess]

My question is this: Did anyone else find it to be hypocritical and offensive?
And: Should action be taken to show that Racism toward any type of person should not be tolerated no matter where a person originates from?

If you get offended by the word Honky you need to grow up. The Pope is not racist and only used the word to push buttons and get attention, he is playing a kind of heel at the moment.

TNA also uses offensive words like Bitch, ****, Ass, Shit and they bleep out fuck occasionally. Guess what, when Desmond Wolfe was about he had the audience chanting wanker (mastabater for you Americans).

Mexican america uses offensive words towards white people as well, did you complain? Nope!

The only action that should be taken as others have said in this thread is: Go grow a pair or perhaps have it removed so when people call you a pussy it wont just be how you're acting. Maybe you could just go back to your PG wrestling show if you get offended this easily, you can go cheer for that wigger Cena overthere to.

 

[J.J.]

Yokozuna wasn't billed as being Japanese, or even asian, he was promoted as a Grand Champion Sumo Wrestler, a Yokozuna, from the Polynesian Islands. His Gimmick wasn't based on his race, or perceived race, it was based on his size, and the fact that in 1992, even as a morbidly obese person, he was still able to move around pretty good.

So how do you explain Mr. Fuiji waving a Japanese flag and carrying a bucket of salt when he accompanied Yoko to the ring?

It's all sad and wrong, really it is, but look at wrestling. The Guerreros stealing everything, Cryme Tyme (apparently they don't know the letter "i" exists) selling stolen goods, Mexicool riding lawnmowers. Hell even RickySteamboat was made to be a martial arts expert rather than the ridiculously amazing pure wrestler that he was simply because he "looked Asian". Yoko too.

Those are sterotypes and those workers agreed to doing it. Shad Gaspard from Cryme Tyme credited Paul Heyman for the idea and him and JTG were able to improvise. Which means they controlled their character. I will be the first to admit the Dragon gimmick was silly and Steamboat was already well known in the Carolinas and didn't need a gimmick to get him over, it was stupid.

It is funny how people will complain how a product is not edgey and then ridicule a word that isnt offensive, yet it's totally expected for a diva to wrestle half-naked or be involved in some form of lingerie just because she's sexy. And if they come out not as revealing you hear the obligatory; "she has too much attire on, can't see her tits!" - I honestly wouldve forgot all about the word being said had it not been mentioned, shows how much big of a deal it is.

This is almost petty as Bully Ray telling Devon he was going to come to the ring and "kick him in his black ass head".

I recall going to a live event and Jim Cornette at a JCP event back in the 80s referring to black people as street people, stereotypicao but no big deal.

On a lighter note i recall Booker T calling Hogan a "*****" in an interview many years ago in WCW, I'm sure It's on YouTube.

 

[Rayne]

Wow, is the Booker T/Hogan "*****" thing being taken completely out of context here. Booker T did not deliberately call Hulk Hogan a "*****" as a way to draw heat from a crowd by using a racial epithet. What he did was cut a promo on all of WCW, then mentioned Hogan (as the champion and symbol of WCW), how he was going to come after him, and take the gold. *****. Then you see Booker T turn around with an "oh shit" look on his face, and Sherri corpses.

[youtube]a1o82BVKFp8[/youtube]

If you get offended by the word Honky you need to grow up. The Pope is not racist and only used the word to push buttons and get attention, he is playing a kind of heel at the moment.

Let me follow this logic- Pope is using a word that people shouldn't get offended by so that he can push buttons and get attention by offending people with a word? People here aren't discussing whether the man who plays The Pope is racist, they're discussing whether racism is being used to promote TNA/IW and thus make money.

 

[J.J.]

Wow, is the Booker T/Hogan "*****" thing being taken completely out of context here. Booker T did not deliberately call Hulk Hogan a "*****" as a way to draw heat from a crowd by using a racial epithet. What he did was cut a promo on all of WCW, then mentioned Hogan (as the champion and symbol of WCW), how he was going to come after him, and take the gold. *****. Then you see Booker T turn around with an "oh shit" look on his face, and Sherri corpses.

[youtube]a1o82BVKFp8[/youtube]

Let me follow this logic- Pope is using a word that people shouldn't get offended by so that he can push buttons and get attention by offending people with a word? People here aren't discussing whether the man who plays The Pope is racist, they're discussing whether racism is being used to promote TNA/IW and thus make money.

I said on a lighter note, which was my way of poking fun at this topic. It wasn't taken out of context because he literally did call him a "*****". Overall I do understand your logic.

 

[closet_fan]

Wrestling is a racist sport by nature.

Do you not notice that gimmicks for Mexican superstars are always that they're Mexican superstars?

Do you not notice Afromerican wrestlers always have rap themes?

Do you not notice if a wrestler has an accent, it's a big part of their gimmick?

When a white person gets called white, it's really not a double standard or a big deal, ITS WRESTLING.

Letting a word offend you, simply means you're easy to offend. Sorry for offending you.

This term is more racist than the words Honky or Cracker. Like people here have said, African Americans calling Caucasians those terms don't come off as bad as the other way around. The N word brings up the whole slave thing that America is trying it's best to get rid of.

Obviously if it were the other way around and whites were slaves to AAs back in the day, the terms Honky and Cracker would have a totally different meaning.

 

[marklouis]

1) I'm white & I didn't find it offensive. It fit with Pope's character.

2) If you want to talk about racism in wrestling, there are a hell of a lot better examples than this. Look at the Hunico character in WWE right now-the way he dresses & acts. Or look at Mark Henry's entire career before about 2008. A few weeks ago, CM Punk repeatedly called Alberto Del Rio greasy in a promo leading up to their PPV title match. That was more racist than this. Or go back & listen to the things Jesse Ventura said in commentary about Tito Santana in the 80s. There are hundreds of other examples of racism in wrestling. This isn't one of them.

 

[TheErikMoonShow]

I think a lot of people with a few excluding are missing the point entirely. As Rayne touched on The Pope did not say that term in a friendly manner it was a poor and cheap attempt to gain heat. Let me rephrase the reverse roll. If Matt Morgan used a less offensive racial slur like Darkie toward them would it have been okay? Again probably not. But its because its geared vs whites. Also, to clear something up, I never once said I was offended. No I was creating a topic to be discussed and so far its working. But I digress tell me what the point of Pope calling Morgan and Crimson all those names was. It was to piss them off and to offend them(kayfabe). And whoever said Morgan wasnt offended Im pretty sure He tried to kick Popes ass . Lol( see how many people take this out of context too)

 

[closet_fan]

1) I'm white & I didn't find it offensive. It fit with Pope's character.

2) If you want to talk about racism in wrestling, there are a hell of a lot better examples than this. Look at the Hunico character in WWE right now-the way he dresses & acts. Or look at Mark Henry's entire career before about 2008. A few weeks ago, CM Punk repeatedly called Alberto Del Rio greasy in a promo leading up to their PPV title match. That was more racist than this. Or go back & listen to the things Jesse Ventura said in commentary about Tito Santana in the 80s. There are hundreds of other examples of racism in wrestling. This isn't one of them.

Not to mention Tony Atlas coming in as Saba Simba or Kamala. As a kid, I never EVER considered either of these characters as anything associated with racial stereotyping, but looking at these characters now makes me cringe. Especially Atlas' character. That one was just bad and clearly showed how desperate Atlas was at the time.

 

[aFTeRLiFe]

My question is this: Did anyone else find it to be hypocritical and offensive?

I think a lot of people with a few excluding are missing the point entirely. As Rayne touched on The Pope did not say that term in a friendly manner it was a poor and cheap attempt to gain heat. Let me rephrase the reverse roll. If Matt Morgan used a less offensive racial slur like Darkie toward them would it have been okay? Again probably not. But its because its geared vs whites. Also, to clear something up, I never once said I was offended. No I was creating a topic to be discussed and so far its working. But I digress tell me what the point of Pope calling Morgan and Crimson all those names was. It was to piss them off and to offend them(kayfabe). And whoever said Morgan wasnt offended Im pretty sure He tried to kick Popes ass . Lol( see how many people take this out of context too)

Read the text I quoted above this quote, that pretty much says that you were offended. You didn't get the replies you wanted towards your thread so now you're trying to troll everyone by telling them all that they took it out of context? I don't find it to be racist nor am I offended by it. Cracker, honkey, or any other racist term doesn't offend me. I laugh at them mostly because they are so lame, cracker? REALLY, REALLY? I'm proud to be Caucasian/white. Whichever you may want to call it.

 

[robbo316]

1) I'm white & I didn't find it offensive. It fit with Pope's character.

2) If you want to talk about racism in wrestling, there are a hell of a lot better examples than this. Look at the Hunico character in WWE right now-the way he dresses & acts. Or look at Mark Henry's entire career before about 2008. A few weeks ago, CM Punk repeatedly called Alberto Del Rio greasy in a promo leading up to their PPV title match. That was more racist than this. Or go back & listen to the things Jesse Ventura said in commentary about Tito Santana in the 80s. There are hundreds of other examples of racism in wrestling. This isn't one of them.

I'm sorry, but to me that just can't even hold it's head above water. Bobby Heenan used to call Bret Hart greasy, was that racist to Canadians?!
Was it racist for Scott Hall to play a Cuban, in the mold of Tony Montana?
Is it racist for them to have gone for months calling Seamus a milk bottle? I'm Irish, not quite as white admittedly, but pretty white, with dark blonde/red hair, and a ginger beard, and I don't find that offensive. Really, these non-discussions about racism in wrestling really need to stop. We all know it, let's get over it.

 

[Chess]

Let me follow this logic- Pope is using a word that people shouldn't get offended by so that he can push buttons and get attention by offending people with a word? People here aren't discussing whether the man who plays The Pope is racist, they're discussing whether racism is being used to promote TNA/IW and thus make money.

Your right Rayne it does not make any sense although nor does any discussion about a company trying to promote themselves through racism, that would be pretty ******ed unless you are promoting a right wing nazi party. Also I have had a bit to smoke today so my mind is not fully functioning to its normal high standards.

I think I meant that Pope was trying to push the buttons of his competitors by being disrespectful to them but at the same time us viewers should not get offended by a simple word like Honky. Now if he said all white people are *****, then I may have been offended.....maybe.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Your right Rayne it does not make any sense although nor does any discussion about a company trying to promote themselves through racism, that would be pretty ******ed unless you are promoting a right wing nazi party. Also I have had a bit to smoke today so my mind is not fully functioning to its normal high standards.

I think I meant that Pope was trying to push the buttons of his competitors by being disrespectful to them but at the same time us viewers should not get offended by a simple word like Honky. Now if he said all white people are *****, then I may have been offended.....maybe.

And the point Rayne is missing is that TNA doesn't control everything Pope says. This isn't the WWE, TNA wrestlers are not learning scripts by heart and every word they say is not checked and approved a million times over by Dixie Carter.

Therefore it's silly to assume that TNA wants to promote anything by using an edgier term. It's reaching for straws and it's yet another pathetic attempt at taking a jab at TNA. Fictional, too.

Whether it's double fisted Kangaroos or "Honkey", it's something that probably came out of Pope's mouth by accident, or he thought it would've been funny. Pope does have a sense of humor.

Either way, I'm surprised at how some members of the IWC can spot such tiny little tic-tac sized things, yet they can't grasp the meaning of an entire storyline which plays our right before their eyes.

No, TNA wasn't trying to earn money by having a black dude call a white dude honkey. No it's not offensive and yes we should all move the fuck on.

On a side note, have you notied that Matt Morgan wears a lot of white things? T-Shirts, his gear. HE'S A KKK MEMBER! Oh TNAz, you'z soz stupidz.

 

[J.J.]

I think a lot of people with a few excluding are missing the point entirely. As Rayne touched on The Pope did not say that term in a friendly manner it was a poor and cheap attempt to gain heat. Let me rephrase the reverse roll. If Matt Morgan used a less offensive racial slur like Darkie toward them would it have been okay? Again probably not. But its because its geared vs whites. Also, to clear something up, I never once said I was offended. No I was creating a topic to be discussed and so far its working. But I digress tell me what the point of Pope calling Morgan and Crimson all those names was. It was to piss them off and to offend them(kayfabe). And whoever said Morgan wasnt offended Im pretty sure He tried to kick Popes ass . Lol( see how many people take this out of context too)

Even if it was a cruel racial term - How can you say a derogatory slur in a friendly manner? When you watch a segment, generally isn't there name calling? That's like saying, "I don't understand why The Rock calls John Cena a power Ranger". The sterotypes are far thin now days, you should look up some of Junkyard Dog's matches from when he was in Mid South wrestling Michael Hayes and listen to the racism if you want to hear racism. I was there, I saw the events.