Quarter Finals: Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin - Austin Wins

[klunderbunker]

This is a Quarter Final match in the Wrestlezone Tournament.

This match has standard rules and a 45 minute time limit. All matches from this point forward take place in a single night which is one week after the previous round.

Location: University of Phoenix Stadium, Phoenix, Arizona

Chris Jericho

Vs.

Steve Austin

​

Voting is open for 5 days.

 

[Supernova]

All of these matches take place in one night. When that happened, to crown an Undisputed Champion, Jericho beat Austin IMMEDIATELY after beating The Rock. Austin had a rest - and still lost. This is the first match of the night, Jericho doesn't even have to go one on one with the Great One beforehand this time. Austin loses.

 

[Ferbian]

All of these matches take place in one night. When that happened, to crown an Undisputed Champion, Jericho beat Austin IMMEDIATELY after beating The Rock. Austin had a rest - and still lost. This is the first match of the night, Jericho doesn't even have to go one on one with the Great One beforehand this time. Austin loses.

What you fail to realize is that Chris Jericho won those matches only by interference and cheating his way to victory, his whole Undisputed Championship reign consisted of interference and cheating retains.

Oh and Chris Jericho tapped out to his own hold against Stone Cold, but the referee was out cold, so Austin lost after interference from Booker T.

The Royal Rumble had a crooked referee at the end, where he refused to count when The Rock covered Jericho, Jericho used a low blow to retain.

He once again tapped out to his own hold when the referee was down at No Way out 2002, and ultimately Austin had to deal with an interfering NWO.

I believe it's been mentioned before on this forum, Chris Jericho has yet to defeat Austin in a clean manner, but Austin has pinned Chris Jericho cleanly, that doesn't spell too good for Chris Jericho, who is considered by definition as a jobber with championships jobbing to the main eventers and the future stars, Austin was the main event, he was one of the bigger challenges to face during his prime, Austin has defeated everyone that has been put in front of him, but Chris Jericho has not.

Vote Austin.

 

[Nate DaMac]

This is as clear cut as they come for me. Austin all the way. Jericho did beat him in a tournament setting one time, but I refuse to believe he could ever do it again. Austin is bonafide superstar known the world over by wrestling fans and just about everyone else. Jericho is a wrestling icon who is only known to the modern person if they watch VH-1. Just to be fair, I don't think it should be by a decisive margin. Jericho is greatness personified, but that doesn't compare to Austin in any way. It would come down to the wire but in the end, Austin get's the 1-2-3. Vote Austin.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

And so it begins. Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin. And here's my case for why Chris Jericho should beat Austin:

4 Times in One Year. FOUR TIMES within a calendar year, Steve Austin was defeated by Chris Jericho. And Austin beat him once. Austin's one pinfall win was via roll-up in an elimination tag. Jericho isn't going to get caught like that here.

Let's examine each of these victories:

Jericho & Benoit vs. Triple H & Steve Austin:
Yes, Austin took a sledgehammer to the face and was pinned in that manner but only a few minutes prior, Jericho had the match one before Triple H broke up the Walls of Jericho. Austin was just about to tap. Had Hunter not broke the hold then Austin would have submitted.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin from Vengeance:
This was the night when Chris Jericho became the first man (and only man) in history to defeat both Steve Austin and The Rock in ONE NIGHT. BACK TO BACK. A lot of you will come here and say, 'oh well Jericho cheated to win', well guess what, he had just wrestled the Rock in a brutal match and Austin had just had a brake. If Chris Jericho was 100%, then he would have walked out, Undisputed Champion in a more decisive manner.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin: Cage:
The night after Vengeance, Chris Jericho defended his newly one Undisputed Championship against Steve Austin. Once again Booker T assisted Y2J, and Jericho walked out still champion. But the fact of the matter is this; Jericho defended against Austin and he beat Austin in back to back nights. Wrestling three matches in the space of 24 hours is no easy task and Jericho beat Austin.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin from No Way Out:
Chris Jericho once again defeats Steve Austin. One on one. Sure the NWO interfered but whose fault was this? Austin's. If Austin hadn't gone and pissed off Hogan, Nash & Hall then they wouldn’t have interfered. Jericho had this one in the bag and once again was victorious.

And if this isn't enough:

VOTE JERICHO

 

[Nate DaMac]

And so it begins. Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin. And here's my case for why Chris Jericho should beat Austin:

I'm listening.

4 Times in One Year. FOUR TIMES within a calendar year, Steve Austin was defeated by Chris Jericho. And Austin beat him once. Austin's one pinfall win was via roll-up in an elimination tag. Jericho isn't going to get caught like that here.

How convenient that it just happened to be one of the worst years in Austin's career. Way after his rise to stardom. And why wouldn't he got caught like that? Where's the proof? Did you not see him get defeated like that not 4 weeks ago by a rookie nonetheless?

Let's examine each of these victories:

Let's.

Jericho & Benoit vs. Triple H & Steve Austin:
Yes, Austin took a sledgehammer to the face and was pinned in that manner but only a few minutes prior, Jericho had the match one before Triple H broke up the Walls of Jericho. Austin was just about to tap. Had Hunter not broke the hold then Austin would have submitted.

You debunked you're own argument here. He took a sledgehammer shot to the face. And so what if Austin was about to tap? Jericho tapped to his own move while Booker T distracted the ref. Neither should be regarded as an argument.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin from Vengeance:
This was the night when Chris Jericho became the first man (and only man) in history to defeat both Steve Austin and The Rock in ONE NIGHT. BACK TO BACK. A lot of you will come here and say, 'oh well Jericho cheated to win', well guess what, he had just wrestled the Rock in a brutal match and Austin had just had a brake. If Chris Jericho was 100%, then he would have walked out, Undisputed Champion in a more decisive manner.

Between the 2 opponents they faced, Kurt Angle was far and away the more aggressive. If they would've had different opponents, it would've been different. Jericho has not, would not, could not ever defeat Austin in a decisive manner.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin: Cage:
The night after Vengeance, Chris Jericho defended his newly one Undisputed Championship against Steve Austin. Once again Booker T assisted Y2J, and Jericho walked out still champion. But the fact of the matter is this; Jericho defended against Austin and he beat Austin in back to back nights. Wrestling three matches in the space of 24 hours is no easy task and Jericho beat Austin.

You fail to mention that Austin too wrestled 3 matches in that same span of time. His downfall was having to deal with Booker at the same time. Jericho never retained thew title cleanly during this reign, but more on that later.

Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin from No Way Out:
Chris Jericho once again defeats Steve Austin. One on one. Sure the NWO interfered but whose fault was this? Austin's. If Austin hadn't gone and pissed off Hogan, Nash & Hall then they wouldn’t have interfered. Jericho had this one in the bag and once again was victorious.

NWO interference. 4 damn people it took to defeat Austin. Doesn't that in itself throw out your theory about the night Jericho first won the title? If not well how about this. The very first time Jericho did defend his championship without any interference, he lost to HHH, a man who Austin has beaten cleanly on numerous occasions.

Look, all of these matches in the tourney are suppose to be featured while the Superstars are in their prime, and every single match you mentioned had Austin when he was past it. You take an Austin from the 1997-1999 era and Jericho get's decimated, prime or not.

And if this isn't enough:

VOTE JERICHO

Not nearly enough. Austin>Jericho.

 

[Coco]

So Austin took a few clusterfuckish falls to Jericho. Okay. So what? Unless you're somehow suggesting that those circumstances will repeat themselves here, what exactly do those matches have to do with anything? Nothing? Yep. That's correct. Nothing.

Austin has proper falls over damn near everyone he's come in contact with in his time on top and was a legit headliner. Jericho is a JTTS and a supporting character who takes clean falls to unlikely undercard muppets at the best of times. You people really think there's a reason to vote for Jericho here? I don't.

That's really the bottom line on this match. Nobody should have to make another post. In fact, KB should close the thread now.

 

[Phoenix]

One element that people keep bringing up yet are hypocritical about this situation is "Jericho's wins were because of interference!" Wait a minute, isn't this Stone Cold Steve Austin, the guy who went against Vince McMahon and the Corporation? The guy that made a name out of Vince trying to screw him out of the title via interference and failing every time because Austin was that tough? Austin is a guy who made his name from beating the odds, yet on this occasion when Austin has been in similiar circumstances he FAILED to defy the odds against Chris Jericho.

Regardless of interferences, in that trend, Jericho still holds vital victories against Austin. On Pay Per View, in one on one matches, Jericho has beaten Austin each time, the only time Jericho was pinned by Austin was in a Survivor Series Elimination Match where Jericho's team WON! The only other PPV loss that Jericho has to Austin is in a Triple Threat Match with Benoit and once against Jericho was not involved in the decision for the win. He even had Austin tapping in that match with Benoit and the referee failed to award the win because of both them applying a submission hold.

Fact is there is no solid proof that anyone has made that Austin has beaten Jericho in a singles match, but also beaten him clean. Everyone makes these issues about Jericho's wins over Austin, yet where are Austin's wins over Jericho? No-one has been able to prove to me that Austin can beat Jericho in a singles match, someone prove it to me because so far if it does exist, it clearly wasn't memorable like Jericho's wins over the Rattlesnake.

Also, as we're in Phoenix, an area Jericho has a certain significant World Championship victory here, he has an experience advantage here too on the location too.

 

[Tastycles]

Lets be honest here, Jericho did beat Austin for the undisputed title, that's true. But that was in late 2001, and then again in early 2002, a time after which Austin was definitely on the wind down. If you look earlier in 2001, when Jericho was still a main eventer, and was still losing to Austin. Jericho may have gotten the biggest win of his career against Austin, but Austin has beaten him just as many times.

That should say it all really. None of us remember Austin's wins over Jericho because they were totally insignificant, in the grand scheme of his career, they meant absolutely nothing to him. People still talk about Jericho's win over Austin because he has never been able to live up to it since. Jericho's win of the Undisputed Title is still cited when people talk about him, not because it was such an impressive showing, but because it's all he's ever done that noteworthy in the main event.

For proof, see The Rock's first WWF Title win - he beat Mankind, Ken Shamrock and The Undertaker in the same night, but absolutely nobody remembers that because he did so much later. Jericho has been a reliable and entertaining performer over the history of wrestling, but in Austin's prime he'd be a rabbit in the headlights here.

 

[Nate DaMac]

One element that people keep bringing up yet are hypocritical about this situation is "Jericho's wins were because of interference!" Wait a minute, isn't this Stone Cold Steve Austin, the guy who went against Vince McMahon and the Corporation? The guy that made a name out of Vince trying to screw him out of the title via interference and failing every time because Austin was that tough? Austin is a guy who made his name from beating the odds, yet on this occasion when Austin has been in similiar circumstances he FAILED to defy the odds against Chris Jericho.

Regardless of interferences, in that trend, Jericho still holds vital victories against Austin. On Pay Per View, in one on one matches, Jericho has beaten Austin each time, the only time Jericho was pinned by Austin was in a Survivor Series Elimination Match where Jericho's team WON! The only other PPV loss that Jericho has to Austin is in a Triple Threat Match with Benoit and once against Jericho was not involved in the decision for the win. He even had Austin tapping in that match with Benoit and the referee failed to award the win because of both them applying a submission hold.

Fact is there is no solid proof that anyone has made that Austin has beaten Jericho in a singles match, but also beaten him clean. Everyone makes these issues about Jericho's wins over Austin, yet where are Austin's wins over Jericho? No-one has been able to prove to me that Austin can beat Jericho in a singles match, someone prove it to me because so far if it does exist, it clearly wasn't memorable like Jericho's wins over the Rattlesnake.

Also, as we're in Phoenix, an area Jericho has a certain significant World Championship victory here, he has an experience advantage here too on the location too.

There is one vital flaw in your whole theory, every time Austin and Jericho faced each other, it was past Austin's prime. Do you honestly believe that Jericho, a glorified jobber, would've stood a chance against Austin in his heyday? To be fair, If a match would've occurred in that time frame, it would've been prior to Jericho's prime as well, depending on what you consider to Jericho's prime, so to me, all one on one matches between the 2 are irrelevant. Besides, if Austin would've beaten Jericho while in his prime, you're right, it wouldn't be memorable. He would just be another bug squashed by Austin.

So how about you guys come up with a different argument? This one has been torn down over and over.

You wanna compare the big names that each of them have faced? Now remember, I'm not going to wiki these so I'm gonna base this on memory alone. And I'm going on CLEAN VICTORIES ONLY.

Austin has beaten Taker, Kane, The Rock, HHH, Shawn, and Bret. All clean. Now who on that list has Jericho beaten clean? I'm sure he has one or 2, but I don't know of any off the top of my head. Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

I’m going to go with Jericho here, for a number of reasons.

Kayfabe. From a kayfabe perspective, Jericho holds more victories over Austin than Austin holds over him. Though these were under dubious circumstances, the face of the matter is that Jericho still got the win on these occasions. Austin was considered a lone wolf badass type for most of his career, and Jericho’s readiness to bring in accomplices to gain a victory gives him an advantage. Also, if Austin did not expect Jericho to cheat in their matches then he severely underestimated him, and if he did it once then he could do it again. Austin is also compared frequently to someone like Hogan during a peak period, but the difference is that Austin could be made to tap. Jericho could force him to submit, and if he did not manage it then he could use his submissions to wear him down until he finished him off with a high impact move.

One reason why Jericho holds the edge here is intelligence. Austin was a brawler who would mostly just go toe to toe with his opponents, and this usually worked because this is what he was best at. Jericho however, scouts his opponents and changes his game plan according to who he is facing, his willingness to cheat and take shortcuts would see him gain another victory over Austin to add to his resume. Jericho is a more well rounded wrestler than Austin, and has a number of different finishing maneuvers that he could utilise. Austin relied heavily on the Stunner, and this means that Jericho needs to focus mainly on ensuring that he cannot use this. Austin cannot defend himself as readily against the hard hitting or submission based finishing moves that Jericho could use to put him away.

Non-kayfabe. What this match and tournament will ultimately come down to is personal preference, and mine is Jericho over Austin. Jericho to me has always been more of a company man, whereas Austin has a history of walking out and refusing to lose to people if he does not feel like it. This selfish attitude could be one of the reasons that he was not picked to win the Undisputed Championship ahead of Jericho, and Jericho’s company loyalty could see him score another win here. Austin as a character is also more limited than Jericho. Austin was on top for a peak period in WWF/E, one that he helped create, but one that I feel would have happened whether or not he had been involved. As time went on he became more and more based around his anti authority gimmick, and this got old, it just wasn’t something that could be lived off forever. Jericho has a versatility that Austin was lacking his whole career, and I think the quality of a wrestler is better shown in Jericho, who has been present during slump periods and made the most of them, rather than Austin who turned his back the minute he began being presented with storylines that he did not like.

One of my biggest peeves with Austin was the complacency he began to show later in his career, the routine of stunning people then having a beer celebration really wore thin after a while. Jericho has changed his character and his approach to matches and promos many times throughout his career, and this in my opinion has helped to keep him fresh. Austin is defined by the Stone Cold Stunner, but Jericho has become known for himself, rather than having one move and one gimmick become the basis of everything he does. Jericho comes up with ideas and invests more of himself into the business than Austin ever did, and seems to be widely considered a consummate professional, compared to Austin who was seemingly regarded as a prima donna.

As I said previously, it will always come down to personal preference, and for this reason and the others that I listed I am going to vote Jericho.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I’m going to go with Jericho here, for a number of reasons.

Kayfabe. From a kayfabe perspective, Jericho holds more victories over Austin than Austin holds over him. Though these were under dubious circumstances, the face of the matter is that Jericho still got the win on these occasions. Austin was considered a lone wolf badass type for most of his career, and Jericho’s readiness to bring in accomplices to gain a victory gives him an advantage. Also, if Austin did not expect Jericho to cheat in their matches then he severely underestimated him, and if he did it once then he could do it again. Austin is also compared frequently to someone like Hogan during a peak period, but the difference is that Austin could be made to tap. Jericho could force him to submit, and if he did not manage it then he could use his submissions to wear him down until he finished him off with a high impact move.

One reason why Jericho holds the edge here is intelligence. Austin was a brawler who would mostly just go toe to toe with his opponents, and this usually worked because this is what he was best at. Jericho however, scouts his opponents and changes his game plan according to who he is facing, his willingness to cheat and take shortcuts would see him gain another victory over Austin to add to his resume. Jericho is a more well rounded wrestler than Austin, and has a number of different finishing maneuvers that he could utilise. Austin relied heavily on the Stunner, and this means that Jericho needs to focus mainly on ensuring that he cannot use this. Austin cannot defend himself as readily against the hard hitting or submission based finishing moves that Jericho could use to put him away.

Non-kayfabe. What this match and tournament will ultimately come down to is personal preference, and mine is Jericho over Austin. Jericho to me has always been more of a company man, whereas Austin has a history of walking out and refusing to lose to people if he does not feel like it. This selfish attitude could be one of the reasons that he was not picked to win the Undisputed Championship ahead of Jericho, and Jericho’s company loyalty could see him score another win here. Austin as a character is also more limited than Jericho. Austin was on top for a peak period in WWF/E, one that he helped create, but one that I feel would have happened whether or not he had been involved. As time went on he became more and more based around his anti authority gimmick, and this got old, it just wasn’t something that could be lived off forever. Jericho has a versatility that Austin was lacking his whole career, and I think the quality of a wrestler is better shown in Jericho, who has been present during slump periods and made the most of them, rather than Austin who turned his back the minute he began being presented with storylines that he did not like.

One of my biggest peeves with Austin was the complacency he began to show later in his career, the routine of stunning people then having a beer celebration really wore thin after a while. Jericho has changed his character and his approach to matches and promos many times throughout his career, and this in my opinion has helped to keep him fresh. Austin is defined by the Stone Cold Stunner, but Jericho has become known for himself, rather than having one move and one gimmick become the basis of everything he does. Jericho comes up with ideas and invests more of himself into the business than Austin ever did, and seems to be widely considered a consummate professional, compared to Austin who was seemingly regarded as a prima donna.

As I said previously, it will always come down to personal preference, and for this reason and the others that I listed I am going to vote Jericho.

If he is so good at scouting his opponents, then how come he mostly loses against them? Cena could be considered the Austin of his generation due to popularity and merchandise sales. John beat Jericho when he was a rookie. Not so good for Y2J. A more seasoned Cena beat Jericho at 3 times in a couple of months with two being on PPV and the third which resulted in Jericho getting fired. In 2008, Jericho lost to Cena two more times. If Jericho was so intelligent, you would think he would have at least beaten Cena a couple of times. The same applies with HBK, HHH, and basically every main eventer during his time. That includes Batista who beat Jericho in 2004 and then beat him again four years later. A more intelligent man would have a better record against his peers and a more intelligent man Jericho is not.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Everyone is looking to far into this match, here's why.

What is Jericho's claim to fame? That he beat Austin and Rock in the same night. So the phrase he used getting himself over had to do with one win over Austin, just one.

Austin's claim to fame? The Attitude Era was his and being 1 or 2 in the greatest pro wrestler debate depending on where you stand.

I'd say Austin's is a little bit more impressive than Jericho's.



Vote Austin.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Does the "accomplishments in the buisness" and "overall abilities" factors just entirely not exist anymore? Like at all? Is this entire fucking thing fantasy camp wrestling tournament? Am I the only one who remembers how we used to do things back in the dinosaur ages?

Sure, Jeritron beat Austin in tournament setting, but....it was a bullshit win. Also, Austin is uh, well pretty much the most successfull pro wrestler, oh, I dont know...EVER?

Austin, obviously.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

If he is so good at scouting his opponents, then how come he mostly loses against them? Cena could be considered the Austin of his generation due to popularity and merchandise sales. John beat Jericho when he was a rookie. Not so good for Y2J. A more seasoned Cena beat Jericho at 3 times in a couple of months with two being on PPV and the third which resulted in Jericho getting fired. In 2008, Jericho lost to Cena two more times. If Jericho was so intelligent, you would think he would have at least beaten Cena a couple of times. The same applies with HBK, HHH, and basically every main eventer during his time. That includes Batista who beat Jericho in 2004 and then beat him again four years later. A more intelligent man would have a better record against his peers and a more intelligent man Jericho is not.

John Cena beat Jericho as a rookie because Jericho underestimated him, the same way that Austin underestimated Jericho. Jericho wins when he sets his mind to defeating someone, as demonstrated by the numerous different ways that he has beaten opponents after scouting them out and planning ahead. Austin is different than Cena and Hogan because he does not win all of his matches; his win loss record is hardly something to boast about if you bring up that issue.

You say Austin is more intelligent, how exactly is this? He charges headlong into any fray and uses the same strategy in every match. This tactic allowed Jericho to beat him in the past, and he would do it again. Austin’s tactics do not win him matches against opponents he feuds with. In his feud with the Rock he began losing after their first couple of matches, because the Rock changed up his strategy and Austin didn’t. In his feud with Bret Hart he won one match that I remember, and this was by DQ, because he did not attempt any approach other than his straight up brawling style. He loses against repeated opponents because he is easy to scout out and plan against. Jericho is very adept at this, and would defeat Austin for exactly this reason.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

John Cena beat Jericho as a rookie because Jericho underestimated him, the same way that Austin underestimated Jericho. Jericho wins when he sets his mind to defeating someone, as demonstrated by the numerous different ways that he has beaten opponents after scouting them out and planning ahead. Austin is different than Cena and Hogan because he does not win all of his matches; his win loss record is hardly something to boast about if you bring up that issue.

You say Austin is more intelligent, how exactly is this? He charges headlong into any fray and uses the same strategy in every match. This tactic allowed Jericho to beat him in the past, and he would do it again. Austin’s tactics do not win him matches against opponents he feuds with. In his feud with the Rock he began losing after their first couple of matches, because the Rock changed up his strategy and Austin didn’t. In his feud with Bret Hart he won one match that I remember, and this was by DQ, because he did not attempt any approach other than his straight up brawling style. He loses against repeated opponents because he is easy to scout out and plan against. Jericho is very adept at this, and would defeat Austin for exactly this reason.

If the same strategy wins a majority of his matches, then why would you try to change it? That same strategy beat Jericho so it works both ways. Austin beat the Rock for the title two titles at Wrestlemania so his strategy didn't work against him.

Which time are you talking about that Austin underestimated Jericho? When he lost to him and Benoit after Judgment Day because HHH hit him with a sledgehammer? Did he underestimate him after he beat both Jericho and Benoit at King of the Ring?

HHH beat Jericho in 2000 so wouldn't you think Y2J would be determined the next time around in singles competition especially when it was for his undisputed world title? I guess he wasn't because he lost. So I guess all those losses were because he didn't set his mind to it?

 

[LigerBomb]

With regards to Chris Jericho's Undisputed Championship win and the interference:
1. Before Booker T ran in and hit Austin with the belt, Austin gained control of Jericho via an illegal low blow that was allowed as the ref(s) were outside the ring unconscious. Perhaps Jericho would have won clean had Austin's cheating not prompted Booker T to cheat on behalf of Jericho in return.
2. Along those same lines, an argument from ignorance isn't valid. Yes, Jericho won via the Booker T belt shot, however that in no way supports or validates the idea that it's the only way he could have won or that without said belt shot, Austin would have definitely beaten Jericho. It is what it is and proves what it proves; nothing more, nothing less. Therefore, the burden of proof is on those that claim otherwise.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

If the same strategy wins a majority of his matches, then why would you try to change it? That same strategy beat Jericho so it works both ways. Austin beat the Rock for the title two titles at Wrestlemania so his strategy didn't work against him.

Which time are you talking about that Austin underestimated Jericho? When he lost to him and Benoit after Judgment Day because HHH hit him with a sledgehammer? Did he underestimate him after he beat both Jericho and Benoit at King of the Ring?

HHH beat Jericho in 2000 so wouldn't you think Y2J would be determined the next time around in singles competition especially when it was for his undisputed world title? I guess he wasn't because he lost. So I guess all those losses were because he didn't set his mind to it?

Yes Austin beat the Rock twice at WM, because the Rock thought that he could match Austin’s brawling ability and tried this tactic again. In their later match at WM as well as the culmination of the Alliance storyline however, Rock defeated Austin, because he had developed and Austin hadn’t.

So Austin beat Jericho in a triple threat? This would go a lot differently in a singles match. Austin lost to Jericho at Vengeance because Booker T interfered, so obviously Jericho was smart enough to recruit help, while Austin was not smart enough to counter this, and subsequently lost the match. As for getting hit by HHH, this was when they were partners, so Austin allowed himself to get hit by his opponent and lost the match. If you watch that match it is a classic example of why Jericho is smarter than Austin. Jericho counters the Stunner and hits a Lionsault on Austin, then moves as HHH tries to hit him with the sledgehammer, causing him to hit Austin instead. This whole sequence of events is Jericho outsmarting both Austin and HHH, and winning the match in the process. Why couldn’t Austin do something to counter Booker T’s interference like this? That’s right, because he is not as smart as Jericho.

Triple H beat Jericho because he is the Cerebral Assassin, and employs tactics similar to that of Jericho as far as scouting and preparation go. Triple H and Austin are not comparable in this regard, because Austin is not in the same league as HHH or Jericho when it comes to planning intelligent matches. Yes Jericho loses matches, and yes he has lost important matches. However, he would beat Austin because he would make a plan of attack, something that Austin would not do. Jericho has lost matches because he has faced opponents who also plan, and who planned better than him. Austin has lost for this reason more frequently than Jericho, and his one size fits all approach to matches is exactly why Jericho will beat him. There have been better strategists than Jericho on occasion, but Austin is not one of them, and would lose because of this.

 

[Coco]

John Cena beat Jericho as a rookie because Jericho underestimated him, the same way that Austin underestimated Jericho. Jericho wins when he sets his mind to defeating someone, as demonstrated by the numerous different ways that he has beaten opponents after scouting them out and planning ahead.

Cena's beaten Jericho countless times in his prime. Jericho probably didn't under-estimate him on all of those occasions, so exactly what happened there? Does he only scout opponents when he wins, thus meaning his losses aren't a knock against his scouting?

Do you want me to list the names that have beaten Jericho countless time? Or does that do too much to invalidate this scouting nonsense?

Fact is, Jericho has no scouting skills.

You need a different argument, son.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Yes Austin beat the Rock twice at WM, because the Rock thought that he could match Austin’s brawling ability and tried this tactic again. In their later match at WM as well as the culmination of the Alliance storyline however, Rock defeated Austin, because he had developed and Austin hadn’t.

So Austin beat Jericho in a triple threat? This would go a lot differently in a singles match. Austin lost to Jericho at Vengeance because Booker T interfered, so obviously Jericho was smart enough to recruit help, while Austin was not smart enough to counter this, and subsequently lost the match. As for getting hit by HHH, this was when they were partners, so Austin allowed himself to get hit by his opponent and lost the match. If you watch that match it is a classic example of why Jericho is smarter than Austin. Jericho counters the Stunner and hits a Lionsault on Austin, then moves as HHH tries to hit him with the sledgehammer, causing him to hit Austin instead. This whole sequence of events is Jericho outsmarting both Austin and HHH, and winning the match in the process. Why couldn’t Austin do something to counter Booker T’s interference like this? That’s right, because he is not as smart as Jericho.

Triple H beat Jericho because he is the Cerebral Assassin, and employs tactics similar to that of Jericho as far as scouting and preparation go. Triple H and Austin are not comparable in this regard, because Austin is not in the same league as HHH or Jericho when it comes to planning intelligent matches. Yes Jericho loses matches, and yes he has lost important matches. However, he would beat Austin because he would make a plan of attack, something that Austin would not do. Jericho has lost matches because he has faced opponents who also plan, and who planned better than him. Austin has lost for this reason more frequently than Jericho, and his one size fits all approach to matches is exactly why Jericho will beat him. There have been better strategists than Jericho on occasion, but Austin is not one of them, and would lose because of this.

So Austin allowed himself to get hit with the sledgehammer by HHH? I guess while Jericho was on top of him punching him that Austin had the presence of mind to see HHH with a sledgehammer and just stay there and let HHH hit him? How can you be so certain that Jericho recruited help in Booker T. Booker interfering in Jericho's favor doesn't mean that he was helping Jericho.

You forget to mention that Angle hit Austin with the belt at Survivor Series 2001 and their WM 19 match is the most overrated used match in history. Austin hadn't wrestled a real match in almost a year so that is not a strong indicator.

Austin isn't some piddling idiot who can't gameplan for his opponent. He's come out on top more often than not against some of the greatest and he won't overlook Jericho.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

Cena's beaten Jericho countless times in his prime. Jericho probably didn't under-estimate him on all of those occasions, so exactly what happened there? Does he only scout opponents when he wins, thus meaning his losses aren't a knock against his scouting?

I do not think that losing to Cena on more than one occasion is really anything special actually, nor do I think it is cause to doubt someone’s abilities. Cena is something of a special case, considering there is virtually no one he has faced on several occasions that he has not beaten. I never said Jericho’s scouting would make him unbeatable; merely that Austin represents the prefect target for such an approach.

Do you want me to list the names that have beaten Jericho countless time? Or does that do too much to invalidate this scouting nonsense?

Austin has his fair share of losses the same way that Jericho does, of course he has lost to opponents more than once, considering that he has spent the majority of his career as a heel. My argument was never that he is unbeatable, perhaps you should read more closely.

Fact is, Jericho has no scouting skills.

Fact is, that is your opinion and nothing more.

You need a different argument, son.

Maybe you should actually present an argument. This weak attack on Jericho doesn’t really do much but show your disapproval of him. If you have a valid reason why Austin would defeat Jericho in this match then I would be interested to hear it.

 

[thepalaceprince]

Did anyone whose making the jericho beat stone cold for the undispited titles actually watch that amtch? Jericho cheatd! Jericho always cheats. Jericho cant win w/o cheating or someon intefering. Im sorry jericho is great but he would never ever ever ever beat stone cold one on one man to man. If jericho didnt have help he wouldnt beat austin its that simple. VOTE STONE COLD

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

So Austin allowed himself to get hit with the sledgehammer by HHH? I guess while Jericho was on top of him punching him that Austin had the presence of mind to see HHH with a sledgehammer and just stay there and let HHH hit him?

Actually Jericho was on top of Austin pinning him after a Lionsault, and presumably about to win the match without any of the underhanded tactics that have been part of many arguments against him. Jericho obviously had the presence of mind to move and not take the win as a given, and this is what gives him and edge over Austin. Austin allowed himself to be put in the position to get hit with the sledgehammer, after being bested by Jericho and put down for a pin.

How can you be so certain that Jericho recruited help in Booker T. Booker interfering in Jericho's favor doesn't mean that he was helping Jericho.

This shows the disadvantages that Austin’s behaviour presents to him. He should not have picked a fight with Booker T beforehand if he did not have a plan in place for if he happened to interfere in one of his matches. Austin starts fights and makes enemies, and this is one of the reasons that people are so ready to interfere against him. He fights on multiple fronts and cannot handle the consequences, whereas Jericho focuses on one opponent, and in this case capitalised on their weakness.

You forget to mention that Angle hit Austin with the belt at Survivor Series 2001

Another case of Austin starting fights that he couldn’t finish, he had been pushing Angle for a long time before this, and he reaped the rewards when Angle cost him the match. If Austin was smart then he wouldn’t have pushed Angle into a betrayal, but he wasn’t, so he did.

and their WM 19 match is the most overrated used match in history. Austin hadn't wrestled a real match in almost a year so that is not a strong indicator.

I presume you mean that you mean that this match is quoted too much in arguments against Austin? Austin lost to the Rock because he had nothing new to bring to the match, so I don’t know why this example shouldn’t be used. If Austin hadn’t wrestled in nearly a year then maybe he should have stayed out, as the Rock proved to him he didn’t have the ability that he once had. Compare this to Jericho who went on a hiatus, and came back and delivered what many people consider to be some of the best work of his entire career.

Austin isn't some piddling idiot who can't gameplan for his opponent. He's come out on top more often than not against some of the greatest and he won't overlook Jericho.

Austin doesn’t plan for his opponents to the extent that Jericho does, Austin’s plans usually extend as far as bringing a six-pack down to ringside for a celebration of a victory that he might not even get. He has overlooked Jericho in the past so I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t happen again. He has had victories against some of the greatest yes, but Jericho has a greater number of victories over him, and would have one more for the list after this match.

 

[Coco]

Yes Austin beat the Rock twice at WM, because the Rock thought that he could match Austin’s brawling ability and tried this tactic again. In their later match at WM as well as the culmination of the Alliance storyline however, Rock defeated Austin, because he had developed and Austin hadn’t.

WM19 was Austin's first real match in well over half a year. It's call ring rust and it's been addressed in kayfabe.

Yeah, the end of the Alliance was Rock developing. Has nothing to do with someone getting involved on Rock's behalf...

I fail to see how either of these examples reflect poorly on Austin.

So, what exactly to I get in response to me pointing out how often Jericho loses?

"Well of course. He's been a heel for most of his career."

That's no excuse in a kayfabe match. So you can either go to war using heel Jericho, who loses consistently and has not one clean victory that would justify a single-handed win over Steve Austin in his prime. Or you go to war with face Jericho, who failed consistently to rise above the upper-midcard and didn't belong in the same ring as Austin in his peak.

Yet somehow, the burden of proof is being placed on Austin supporters. For some reason, we're expected to explain why the man with the more vastly more successful career is on Chris Jericho's level. How does that make sense? If anything, we deserve a proper, logical explanation for why a glorified JTTS, perennial upper-midcard gatekeeper, and occasional transitional champion goes over one of the top American professional wrestlers of all time. Go on, regale us with your convoluted reasoning as to why Jericho deserves anyone's vote here. Be sure it makes more sense than the fluff that you've tried to pass as "proof" thus far. But while doing it, remember that Booker T. and the nWo won't be charging to ringside to cost Austin the bout. Also, be sure to remember that Jericho has lost to countless repetitive, headstrong wrestlers on many, many occasions.

Also, be sure to Vote Austin.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

WM19 was Austin's first real match in well over half a year. It's call ring rust and it's been addressed in kayfabe.

I have addressed this match in another argument. If Austin was smarter then he would have realised that he would not be able to jump back to his old self after such a long absence. The fact that he charged headlong into this match and lost using the same old tactics just proves my point further.

Yeah, the end of the Alliance was Rock developing. Has nothing to do with someone getting involved on Rock's behalf...

The Rock won because Austin couldn’t beat him, even after Jericho, ironically enough, interfered and put Rock down for Austin to finish. The failure of the Alliance to win was weakness on Austin’s part, because he didn’t account for a possible betrayal by Angle, a man who he had been taunting and threatening for months leading up to this match.

I fail to see how either of these examples reflect poorly on Austin.

They reflect poorly on Austin because they show how his attitude makes him enemies, and the combination of complacency towards his in ring game and his large number of enemies has led to him lose matches in the past.

So, what exactly to I get in response to me pointing out how often Jericho loses?

"Well of course. He's been a heel for most of his career."

That's no excuse in a kayfabe match. So you can either go to war using heel Jericho, who loses consistently and has not one clean victory that would justify a single-handed win over Steve Austin in his prime. Or you go to war with face Jericho, who failed consistently to rise above the upper-midcard and didn't belong in the same ring as Austin in his peak.

You say Jericho doesn’t belong in the same ring as Austin? I don’t see it this way actually, I don’t see why Austin, a man notorious for his selfish and unprofessional conduct, should be considered better than a well rounded and well respected performer such as Jericho. Austin capitalised on a boom period in wrestling, and as soon as this started to wane, he took off for an extremely lacklustre acting career. Jericho has proven himself time and again to be a company man, helping out with younger talent and developing storylines, as well as stepping up his game and evolving over his whole career. You are right; they don’t belong in the same ring together. Austin was a one trick pony; his complacency was one of his biggest flaws, and the main reason that Jericho would defeat him in this match.

From a kayfabe perspective again, Austin has any number of lasting injuries that Jericho could exploit, whereas Jericho has none for Austin to target. Austin’s knees would give out under the strain of Jericho’s Walls of Liontamer, and his neck would be targeted from any number of moves that Jericho could employ. If we take Jericho to be a heel in this match then I don’t see why exactly you ask for a reason that Jericho would have to win clean. Jericho would win by whatever means necessary, just as he has done against Austin in the past.

Yet somehow, the burden of proof is being placed on Austin supporters. For some reason, we're expected to explain why the man with the more vastly more successful career is on Chris Jericho's level. How does that make sense? If anything, we deserve a proper, logical explanation for why a glorified JTTS, perennial upper-midcard gatekeeper, and occasional transitional champion goes over one of the top American professional wrestlers of all time. Go on, regale us with your convoluted reasoning as to why Jericho deserves anyone's vote here. Be sure it makes more sense than the fluff that you've tried to pass as "proof" thus far. But while doing it, remember that Booker T. and the nWo won't be charging to ringside to cost Austin the bout. Also, be sure to remember that Jericho has lost to countless repetitive, headstrong wrestlers on many, many occasions.

I have made arguments throughout this thread, and you have done nothing but prove that you are seemingly unable to approach a debate in any manner other than taking quotes out of context and building flimsy arguments around them. If you want a simple reason why Jericho would win, it is because he has beaten Austin more times than Austin has beaten him, and I believe that he would do it again in this match. There is no reason to think that Austin would win this match, when he hasn’t shown himself capable of beating Jericho in their other bouts. People have jumped all over the fact that Jericho lost a Triple Threat to Austin, well this is not going to make any difference in a singles match. Add to that the fact that Jericho wasn’t even pinned by Austin here, and where is your argument for Austin winning? You call Jericho a transitional champion, that didn’t stop him beating Austin on more than one occasion.

What exactly is going to stop people from interfering in this match? Jericho and Austin’s matches at both No Way Out and Vengeance were standard rules matches, and Jericho won both after interference, so why exactly could that not happen again? You say Austin is more successful, how exactly are his catchphrases and merchandise sales going to help him go over Jericho in this match? If you want to see success, just look up Jericho’s win to loss ration against Austin, that should help you understand why Austin will lose this match.

Vote Jericho.