Wrestlezone Tournament Finals: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin

Discussion in 'General WrestleZone Tournament' started by klunderbunker, Jun 19, 2010.

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Who Wins The Wrestlezone Tournament?

  1. The Undertaker

  2. Steve Austin

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. jsanders78

    jsanders78 Dark Match Winner

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    The Undertaker has had the same gimmick for 20 years and is still going strong. While Austin's has been around for 14 years, Undertaker's gimmick is one of only a handful I can think of that has truly survived from the pre-attitude era (shawn michaels, ric flair are the others that come to mind) For a character to last that long and go through the biggest shift wrestling has ever seen, that says a lot about what the Undertaker means to the people. It's definitely a close one, but I give it to the Undertaker.
     
    #26
  2. Suneeboy

    Suneeboy Big Boot, Leg Drop, 1....2....3

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    I’ll mention this again later in my post, but I feel that Austin is getting more pop culture votes as opposed to who people actually think would win. It also seems like some people are still bitter that Taker went over Cena, so maybe there are more votes against Taker than votes for Austin. What people are forgetting is that The Undertaker not only has the kayfabe endurance to go over Austin here, but no one has mentioned that The Undertaker has also won this very tournament before, and has proven to have the ability to win it all. The Undertaker was a huge heel and adversary to Austin during Austin’s peak, and even took the title from him.

    The Undertaker was headlining WrestleMania’s when Austin was just a midcarder.

    The Undertaker was in top feuds and was a main eventer when Austin was carrying around the Million Dollar Belt and fighting Savio Vega.

    The Undertaker also, has beaten EVERYBODY. In big matches, in small matches, he’s gone the distance, won titles, won gimmick matches, tournaments, fought the best of the best spanning across 20+ years, and is STILL a dominant force in wrestling. What I see is people voting for Austin because when he was hot, he was as hot as it can get in wrestling, but the bigger picture goes like this. When it comes down to who is the best of the best in the ring, and when it comes to pure longevity the Undertaker is the man. You think merchandise sales and movies make Austin the bigger star? I don’t think everyone realizes how much of a household wrestling name the Undertaker is. His name is right up there with Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, and Vince McMahon when it comes to non-wrestling fans knowing who the guy is. Austin had a bad ass T-Shirt and a great gimmick, but Taker also has a great gimmick.

    You also have to vote for Taker because the guy has evolved with the business and has stayed relevant through it all. He’s adjusted and adapted, and always improved his in ring psychology, and like wine has gotten better with age. Austin was better on the mic…so what. The Undertaker’s gimmick doesn’t require much talking. As a performer, the Undertaker has shown that he can stand the test of time, and his longevity on the top is an amazing feat in of itself. Just to be in the ring with the Undertaker is an honor at this point in time simply off of the strength that the guy has done it all. Austin, mostly due to injuries still had a little bit more to do (and its apparent there is no true closure because everyone wants him to STILL come back and wrestle). The Undertaker’s Legacy when it’s all said and done will be enormous, and although he may not be the pop culture icon that Hogan, Rock, or Austin were, he is a wrestling icon and is equally as large as all 3 of those men. I feel like Austin is getting votes because of his mainstream prominence, and not so much off of who would actually win this match.

    Kayfabe move wise? Austin suffered a broken neck. Taker’s finishers are Hell’s Gate, and the fucking Tombstone.
     
    #27
  3. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Austin was a midcarder until he won the title in 1998. Here's who Undertaker faced at Wrestlemania: Snuka, Roberts, Gonzales, Bundy, Diesel, and Sid. WM 12 was all about HBK vs. Bret Hart and his title match was hugely overshadowed by Hart vs. Austin at WM 13. Undertaker is in the same boat as Ric Flair as he is popular with wrestling fans but it doesn't carry over to non-wrestling fans. That's where guys like Hogan, Rock, and Austin come in as they have the crossover appeal Undertaker never had.

    Austin suffered a broken neck in 1997. He has twice as many victories over Taker as the other way around. Steve Austin was on the winning side six times over Undertaker in less than two months. Austin's broken neck didn't seem to hurt him then.
     
    #28
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  4. Big Nick Dudley

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    I highly doubt people are voting "pop culture" or against Taker to avenge Cena's loss. I don't care about Taker winning a fake tournament before, I care about him losing more often to Austin, in the ring, than winning. Austin OWNED Taker throughout their careers, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

    When did Taker headline Mania while Austin was a midcarder? Taker headlined Mania 13, against Sid, and it was basically a double main event. Bret and Austin was a FAR superior match to Taker/Sid, and had just as much hype going in, if not more. Austin and Bret Hart were far more over than Sid, and were at least equal to Taker at that time.

    Austin started off as a mid-carder because that's what he was in WCW. Taker was a mid-carder, or even less in WCW, before he came to the WWF, so once again, I'm not seeing how that makes Taker any better than Austin. Taker was there first, and was really over. Nothing against Taker, but you shouldn't be holding that against Austin either. Taker came around in 1990, and won the title exactly a year later. But he held it for less than a month (I believe), and didn't see it again for years. So comparing who did what, early in their career, is pointless. Their basically equal in that regard, and that's being kind to Taker.

    Taker did/does have a great gimmick, you're right. But he is not a household name with non-fans. Steve Austin was. Forget his movies, he was a household name during the Attitude Era, among non-wrestling fans. He was the biggest name in pro wrestling during it's biggest, most profitable era. Taker has had the longer career, but it's hardly been more successful. I would say, in terms of their entire career, they are equal when it comes to overall success. Also, it's not like Austin wanted to retire because he was sick of the business, etc. He had a lot of health concerns. And the major health concern, his neck, was not brought upon him by himself. Owen Hart almost killed the guy.

    Who hasn't Austin beaten? He's beaten The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley, HHH, Kurt Angle, Ricky Steamboat, Yokozuna, THE UNDERTAKER, etc., etc. The only guys Austin never defeated were the ones he didn't face. Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Andre, etc. never faced Austin (not in his prime).

    Austin's not winning this vote because he SHOULD win? With these two, it's so close in terms of who had the better career, you have to go by the past. And in the past, Austin dominated Taker. Austin took that series of matches, hands down, it's not even up for debate. So, no, I'm not voting for Austin because of "pop culture" or any other assumption you are making. I'm mainly voting for him due to the fact he has always been dominant over his opponent here in the finals..The Undertaker.
     
    #29
  5. Megadeth

    Megadeth AKA Asm92784

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    I am a little confused why so many people are arguing for Austin saying he dominated the Undertaker every time they fought. Some people on these forums have very selective memory. I did a little bit of research, as far as TV and PPV matches go at least, the best I can tell the Undertaker and Steve Austin went 1 on 1 at total of 15 times in their careers. It turns out they are tied at 7 wins each with 1 match going to a no contest. 7 of those 15 matches were on PPV, And they were really close on those as well with Austin having a slight edge of 4 to 3. And as far as Austin winning "clean" more often, only in 1 of his PPV wins did he not have some kind of help. (My point is not the Undertaker won cleanly in the matches he won, only Austin did not win as cleanly as some people make it out to be.) And Every match they fought on Raw or Smackdown 1 on 1 ended in either DQ or a Count-out. So Austin has exactly ONE true "clean" win over the Undertaker.

    Even more so to argue against Stone Cold, in addition to those fifteen 1 on 1 matches they had, The Undertaker fought Austin in a 1 vs 2 Handicap match twice, both times the Undertaker was the 1, and the Dead man won both of those matches. The first Austin Teamed with HHH, and it was at the UK only PPV Insurrextion, and he pinned HHH not Austin so if you dont want to count that one I would understand. But the second one happened on Smackdown with Austin teaming with Kurt Angle, and Austin was the one the Undertaker pinned.

    So please, if you are going to vote Austin, come up with a better reason than because he Always beat the Undertaker, because that simply could not be further from the truth.

    For those curious about my numbers, here is the best record I could come up with (source http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/the-undertaker-124.html?opp=205)
    Event and Winner.

    Raw 6/24/96 Undertaker
    Raw 7/22/96 Austin
    Raw 1/20/97 Undertaker
    IYH 15 Cold Day in Hell 97 Undertaker
    Summer Slam 98 Austin
    WWE Rock Bottom 98 Austin (Buried alive match, Kane interfered against Undertaker)
    Over The Edge 5/23/99 Undertaker
    Raw 5/31/99 Austin
    Fully Loaded 99 Austin (First Blood Match, X-pac Interfered against Undertaker)
    Raw 7/27/99 No Contest
    Raw 4/30/01 Undertaker
    Judgment Day 5/20/01 Austin (HHH & Vince McMahon interfered against Undertaker)
    Smackdown 10/30/01 Undertaker
    Raw 2/11/02 Austin
    Backlash 02 Undertaker
     
    #30
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  6. Straight Edge Loyalist

    Straight Edge Loyalist Dark Match Winner

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    I'm still pissed that Undertaker got by Goldberg, a competitor he would never be booked to defeat in real life, so my vote goes to the Rattlesnake.
     
    #31
  7. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    Midcard? The first Mania that Taker headlined would have been 13...the year that Austin had that overly obscure submission match with Bret Hart.

    And Gorgeous George was the biggest thing in wrestling before the Undertaker was even conceived. I'm failing to see the connection here.

    And Austin made his career out of beating the Undertaker.


    The verdict is pretty simple, bra. SCSA.
     
    #32
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  8. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I'm not quite sure where people are getting their "Austin always beat Taker" garb from, it isn't true. He should win here though, because Taker was never a real opponent to him. They feuded a few times early in Austin's pomp, but by the time we got to 1999, Taker just wasn't in Austin's league any more. Look at that guy's list a few posts above, and notice how they didn't face each other for almost two years, precisely coinciding with Austin at his hottest. I suppose you could say this was because Taker was just feuding other people, but the truth of the matter is that Taker won one World Title between 1998 an 2002, and just wasn't that big a deal. He was a sideshow to Austin, Rock, Triple H, even Kane for some of that period.

    The fact of the atter is Undertaker has longevity, but so what? He's never been the face of any wrestling company, and arguably hasn't even been the face of any brand in his WWE tenure. It took Taker 17 years after winning his first title to win his 6th, it took Austin 3 and a half years. Before anyone makes the inevitable moron argument that Austin's title reigns were all short, take into account that between March 1998 and December 2001, Austin was champion for 529 days. From November 1991 to February 2010, Undertaker has been a champion for 435, 207 of which were when there were two major champions.

    In addition to the obvious non-kayfabe, if we look at the tournaments, who are you going to back, the man who made a career out of getting nailed and then coming back e.g. Royal Rumble 2001, or the man who takes four months a year off because he's banished, or dead, or in a vegatitive state?

    Well, perhaps that is simplistic, but lets look at the tournament history of both men:

    Undertaker

    KOTR 1991: Quarter Finals (W Road Warrior Animal, DDQ Sid Justice)
    KOTR 1995: Quarter Finals (W Jeff Jarrett, L Mabel)
    Kuwaiti Cup 1996: Semi Final (W Isaac Yankem, Davey Boy Smith, L Hunter Hearst Helmsley)
    Middle East Cup 1996: Semi Final (W Mankind, L STEVE AUSTIN)
    Survivor Series 1998: Semi Final (W Kane, L The Rock)
    Smackdown No 1 Contenders Tournament 2003: Semi Final (W Rey Mysterio, L John Cena)
    Smackdown No 1 Contenders Tournament 2005: Quarter Final (DCO Renee Dupree)

    Steve Austin

    WCW US Title 1991: Final (W Tom Zenk, Barry Windham, L Sting)
    Nintendo Top Ten Challenge 1992: Semi Final (W Ron Simmons, D Ricky Steamboat)
    European Cup 1994: Semi Final (W Too Cold Scorpio, Ricky Steamboat, L Sting)
    WCW US Title 1995: Quarter Finals (W Jim Duggan, L Randy Savage)
    Kuwaiti Cup 1996: Quarter Finals (W Marty Jannetty, L Ahmed Johnson)
    IC Title 1996: Quarter Finals (L Marc Mero)
    KOTR 1996: Winner (W Bob Holly, Savio Vega, Marc Mero, Jake Roberts)
    Middle East Cup 1996: Final (W Owen Hart, UNDERTAKER, L Bret Hart)
    Kuwaiti Cup 1997: Quarter Finals (W Bret Hart, L Owen Hart)
    WWF Title 1998: Semi Final (W Big Bossman, L Mankind)
    Title Unification 2001: Final (W Kurt Angle, L Jericho)

    Tournaments participated in: Austin 10-8 Undetaker
    Tournament wins: Austin 1-0 Undertaker
    Tournament finals: Austin 4-0 Undertaker
    Tournament semi-finals: Austin 7-3 Undertaker
    Tournament victories: Austin 16-7 Undertaker

    The pedigree is obvious. Austin has shown on a number of occasions that he can pull out a win in tournaments against all manner of opponents. Sure, he's lost to Mero and Johnson, but at a time when both were on a roll. Taker lost to Mabel who was embarking on a push at the time, but Dupree wasn't. Austin's most illustrious tournament victories came against former world champions like Bret Hart, Ricky Steamboat and err... The Undertaker. The Undertaker has beaten Kane, but every single one of his other tournament victims have been midcarders at best. Without a doubt, this match should belong to Austin.
     
    #33
  9. Goliath Uterus

    Goliath Uterus Getting Noticed By Management

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    Man, this is tough. The first one I've had to actually think about who I wanted to vote for. Anyway, I've got Austin. The Rattlesnake is just to mean, physical, and can pull that stunner out of anywhere.

    Kayfabe wise, he is too over, can insult the Undertaker into submission, and would be booked to win a match where both have faced 3 other opponennts (IMO of course).
     
    #34
  10. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    And that's it.

    With a more or less flattening of the Undertaker, Steve Austin joins the names of Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker and Bret Hart as the winners of the WrestleZone Tournament. Thank you all for participating and making this what I would this is a success.
     
    #35
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  11. The Prod1gy

    The Prod1gy WCW Cruiserweight Champion

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    Well deserved win to Austin, great tournament Klunderblunker great job!
     
    #36

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