My response

[Serious Mozzarella]

Have you ever, when angry with someone, or in jest, called someone gay? Or a fa**ot, perhaps? If so, you've demonstrated homophobia in your lifetime.
I'm ashamed to say I've done so when I was younger. Context is important, sure. Dagger was stating a worldview, one based on religious beliefs.

Goddamnit, LSN.

Calling someone a "fa**ot" in anger is not the same as saying, "I will never tolerate homosexuality in my house."

Nobody gives a shit about his reasoning behind his bigotry. Even if, and especially because, it's based on religious beliefs. That doesn't magically make it not homophobic. It's a bigoted world view based on bigoted religious beliefs.

 

[LSN80]

Goddamnit, LSN.

Calling someone a "fa**ot" in anger is not the same as saying, "I will never tolerate homosexuality in my house."

Nobody gives a shit about his reasoning behind his bigotry. Even if, and especially because, it's based on religious beliefs. That doesn't magically make it not homophobic. It's a bigoted world view based on bigoted religious beliefs.

Did I or did I not say context was important? I was implicit about that fact, was I not? But calling someone a fa**ot in anger, or jest, is bigotry as well. You said noone gives a sh*t as to the reasoning behind it, yet you're quick to mention the difference between what Dagger said, and one said out of anger.

Also, I agree that a worldview of "homosexuality is a sin" is a bigoted one. Yet I was someone who believed it for the first 18 years of my life, more or less. Do you think less of me because I was misinformed for a time?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I wonder how many of Dagger's nonspam posts have come in, let's say, the last three months.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Did I or did I not say context was important? I was implicit about that fact, was I not? But calling someone a fa**ot in anger, or jest, is bigotry as well. You said noone gives a sh*t as to the reasoning behind it, yet you're quick to mention the difference between what Dagger said, and one said out of anger.

How was it taken out of context? His entire post on the subject was quoted time and time again for the world to see. There was nothing taken out of context there. He said that he wouldn't tolerate a homosexual lifestyle in his house, and that's that.

Taking something out of context would be putting "I hate fa**ots" in a quote, putting someone's name in it, and calling him a bigot, while the entire quote is, "The guy was such an asshole! He ran up and down the aisle screaming, 'I hate fa**ots!'"

Quoting someone's entire opinion on the subject of offspring and homosexuality, exactly as the wrote it, and pointing out the bigotry is not "taking something out of context." You need to learn the difference.

Also, I agree that a worldview of "homosexuality is a sin" is a bigoted one. Yet I was someone who believed it for the first 18 years of my life, more or less. Do you think less of me because I was misinformed for a time?

Do you still believe it? If so, yes. If not, no.

Dagger still believes that shit, but he's back pedaling, and everyone can see it.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Gelgarin is boring and long winded. Ye I said it!


I got the Moves Like Dagger!

 

[LSN80]

How was it taken out of context? His entire post on the subject was quoted time and time again for the world to see. There was nothing taken out of context there. He said that he wouldn't tolerate a homosexual lifestyle in his house, and that's that.

Taking something out of context would be putting "I hate fa**ots" in a quote, putting someone's name in it, and calling him a bigot, while the entire quote is, "The guy was such an asshole! He ran up and down the aisle screaming, 'I hate fa**ots!'"

Quoting someone's entire opinion on the subject of offspring and homosexuality, exactly as the wrote it, and pointing out the bigotry is not "taking something out of context." You need to learn the difference.

Honestly, I dont think you have much grasp on the concept of context, or your comprehension of what Im saying is quite poor. I never stated whatsoever that what Dagger was saying was taken out of context. I was saying context is important, and when said with the context of religious beliefs, it is bigotry. How am i saying what Dagger said was taken out of context? You're so ready to pounce on someone who even remotely defends Dagger that you're completely blind to the fact that I'm mostly agreeing with you.

Further. your example was non-sensical, as I never said anything approaching that. I simply said that if someone calls someone a fa**ot, they're displaying ignorance and bigotry. Even in jest or anger.

Do you still believe it? If so, yes. If not, no.

I don't think you're reading a word I'm saying.To summarize:

1. I said I was misinformed until I was 18. I'm 29 now.

2. I have a ten day old daughter. Regardless of who she brings home when she starts to date, male or female, Ill care about one thing.

3. Do they make her happy, and treat her well? If so, she can date a pre-op transvestite for all I care. My daughter's happiness is more important then anything in this world to me.

4. I believe sexual orientation to be a genetic predisposition, not a morality based, religious issue.

Dagger still believes that shit, but he's back pedaling, and everyone can see it.

Only Dagger knows what Dagger believes. I'm not going to judge him.

 

[Gelgarin]

Which is why you are one of the worst posters this forum has ever seen.

First time in a long time I've been tempted to replace Lou Thesz.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Honestly, I dont think you have much grasp on the concept of context, or your comprehension of what Im saying is quite poor. I never stated whatsoever that what Dagger was saying was taken out of context. I was saying context is important, and when said with the context of religious beliefs, it is bigotry. How am i saying what Dagger said was taken out of context?

How else am I supposed to take, "context is important?" If you're not saying that the post isn't being taken out of context, then what are you trying to say?

Right, he's "changed" since 5 months ago. I'll get into that later.

You're so ready tp pounce on someone who even remotely defends Dagger that you're completely blind to the fact that I'm mostly agreeing with you.

Get off your high horse, and stop trying to paint me like some wild animal who's sitting here breathing fire the minute someone says anything positive about Dagger. I misunderstood your poorly worded posts about context and tried to discuss homophobia and bigotry with you.

Over-exaggerating someone else's tone to make yourself seem more sophisticated in your arguments is the most overused, piss-poor style of posting on this forum, and I expect better from you.

I don't think you're reading a word I'm saying.To summarize:

1. I said I was misinformed until I was 18. I'm 29 now.

2. I have a ten day old daughter. Regardless of who she brings home when she starts to date, male or female, Ill care about one thing.

3. Do they make her happy, and treat her well? If so, she can date a pre-op transvestite for all I care. My daughter's happiness is more important then anything in this world to me.

4. I believe sexual orientation to be a genetic predisposition, not a morality based, religious issue.

Cool. I'm happy for you. I got what you were saying before, and I showed no indication of misunderstanding you. You asked me if I currently think any less of you for having a bigoted world view in your teens. I said if you still believe that, then yes I do. But you don't, so I don't.

Only Dagger knows what Dagger believes. I'm not going to judge him.

And Dagger expressed his beliefs by verbalizing them. That's how communication works. If you have a thought in your head, you verbalize it, letting other people know what's going on in your head. I know what Dagger believes because he told everyone what he believes.

Dagger said that he wouldn't tolerate a homosexual in his house. That makes him a bigot. Given his current track record of flip-flopping on his beliefs, backstabbing and flat out lying during the course of this election, I'm not about to sit here and believe he's gone through this wonderful, enlightening transformation into a non-bigoted member of society.

 

[LSN80]

How else am I supposed to take, "context is important?" If you're not saying that the post isn't being taken out of context, then what are you trying to say?

I was saying that holding that belief is worse then then saying it in anger or out of jest. Third time I've said that. Again, are you reading what I'm saying? Once more:

1. Bigotry expressed in any form is wrong.

2. Holding bigotry as a religious belief is worse.

That's my entire contextual argument. Sometimes I use too many words trying to make a point. Ill admit that.

Get off your high horse, and stop trying to paint me like some wild animal who's sitting here breathing fire the minute someone says anything positive about Dagger. I misunderstood your poorly worded posts about context and tried to discuss homophobia and bigotry with you.

I'm not on any high horse. That would mean I believe myself to be better then you, which I don't. My argument regarding context was clear, just likely long-winded. I've stated repeatedly throughout this discussion that I disagree with the religious belief that homosexuality is a sin. But my point about you arguing with me regarding Dagger was solely based on your critique of me, not of Dagger. I was agreeing with you for the most part, and you didnt see it that way.

Over-exaggerating someone else's tone to make yourself seem more sophisticated in your arguments is the most overused, piss-poor style of posting on this forum, and I expect better from you.

Except that I wasn't exaggerating your tone. I was saying that you misinterpreted what I was saying because of your dislike for Dagger, rather then looking at things objectively. I honestly believed you weren't attempting to understand what I was saying, which disapointed me. You, as well as most, know that I don't conduct business trying to make people look bad or feel worse about themselves.I don't do that to people I don't respect, and I respect you. Why the hell would I do that to you?

Cool. I'm happy for you. I got what you were saying before, and I showed no indication of misunderstanding you. You asked me if I currently think any less of you for having a bigoted world view in your teens. I said if you still believe that, then yes I do. But you don't, so I don't.

Glad we came to an understanding here.

And Dagger expressed his beliefs by verbalizing them. That's how communication works. If you have a thought in your head, you verbalize it, letting other people know what's going on in your head. I know what Dagger believes because he told everyone what he believes.

By writing them, actually, but that's just semantics.

Dagger said that he wouldn't tolerate a homosexual in his house. That makes him a bigot. Given his current track record of flip-flopping on his beliefs, backstabbing and flat out lying during the course of this election, I'm not about to sit here and believe he's gone through this wonderful, enlightening transformation into a non-bigoted member of society.

Fair enough. All I was asking was for people to consider the possibility that he has, for no other reason then I've changed my viewpoints over time, significantly. In my field of work, I make my living on the premise that anyone can change, and finding the best in people. I see alot of good in Dagger, I honestly do. If he believes that still, I wholeheartedly disagree and don't respect that viewpoint. But that doesn't mean I don't respect him. Ive seen alot of good in him over time, from discussing things with him beyond just the boards, like I do with many people on here. You and I have exchanged PM's before, and I know more about you that the regular person might. There's things we've discussed I'd never bring to public, even though they paint you in a positive light. Same goes with Dagger.

My apologies. I'm being long-winded and rambling here. Not sleeping in nights because of a newborn is a bear. But I hope you see where Im coming from, even if Im wording it poorly.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Crock told me Dagger was actually born in Kenya.

Coco has investigators on the ground... as we speak.

 

[JGlass]

Hey Habs, in case you were wondering why guys like me didn't respond to this thread...

I would officially like to go on record and state that I am no longer in support of Dagger, or the ABC party. Not that I was doing a particularly good job at putting over Dagger anyways... Sorry Habs, it's not you at all. And Dagger, you've still always been super nice to me. I have no personal issues with you, but I can't support bullshit like this. If you had any legs left to stand on in this election, you just took a hedge-trimmer to them.

Best of luck in all your future endeavors.

It's because Dagger could do a better job of screwing himself over than I ever could.

And because I didn't know this thread existed until today.

 

[gd]

While I disagree with the statement, I think it isn't exactly fair to take the comment out of the context of the conversation.

Umm, here's the context.

Gelgarin: "Hey Dagger, I have a legitimate criticism about the way you post."

Dagger: "Oh yeah?! Well, you suck!"

 

[Dagger Dias]

Crock told me Dagger was actually born in Kenya.

Missouri, actually. Not far from where Blue Cardinal is from.

I wonder how many of Dagger's nonspam posts have come in, let's say, the last three months.

Likely around 300, but I have not posted as much the past few months as I used to.

It's so much a rule as a limit. The better question is, other than mods, who could possibly need a larger PM box? 50 is more than enough. I don't think my PM box has ever gotten above 35, & even that was several yrs. of PMs that I just never deleted.

At least I answered the question. How come you're not criticising Coco for avoiding the question by saying he'd change nothing, or Crock for having a similar answer in changing a cap on something? Those of us who receive many emails on here would benefit from the change I provided in my answer. Just sayin'.

 

[Daniel]

Come on, Dagger. Stop replying. You're above this.

 

[Remix]

Missouri, actually. Not far from where Blue Cardinal is from.

Have you got any proof of that?

Likely around 300, but I have not posted as much the past few months as I used to.

And not two original ideas to rub together in all those posts.

At least I answered the question. How come you're not criticising Coco for avoiding the question by saying he'd change nothing,

Because at least he admitted that he wouldn't change anything, gave a reasoned answer of why he wouldn't and actually adressed something that is a rule rather than an arbitery limit that does not relate to the rules in the slightest. Which is what you did.

or Crock for having a similar answer in changing a cap on something?

Because his limit would actually have an effect on the rules. Yours would not.

Those of us who receive many emails on here would benefit from the change I provided in my answer. Just sayin'.

Those of you who recieve a lot of e-mails on here should clear out your PM boxes more often or address the root cause of why you're getting a lot of PMs.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Crock wants to change the rule regarding how many posts one must make before starting a thread.

Coco addressed that the only rule he would've changed (the spam rule) he's changed his mind about, so he really had no other rule he'd want to change.

You answered with something that isn't even a rule. PM box size seems like more of a space availability issue than anything else.

 

[Dagger Dias]

And not two original ideas to rub together in all those posts.

Yet another example of blind hate. You're only whining about my posts because other "cooler" posters that you want to like you also do. I happen to post a lot of original ideas. If you have nothing better to do than analyze my posts or posting style to death then perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you allocate your spare time. I'm sure there's plenty of things out there in real life that you could be doing instead. You know, things that actually matter.

Because at least he admitted that he wouldn't change anything, gave a reasoned answer of why he wouldn't and actually adressed something that is a rule rather than an arbitery limit that does not relate to the rules in the slightest. Which is what you did.

It does deal with the rules. No poster other than mods is allowed to have more than 50 private messages. Coco avoided the question.

Because his limit would actually have an effect on the rules. Yours would not.

Yes it would. All posters would be allowed up to 75 private messages.

Those of you who recieve a lot of e-mails on here should clear out your PM boxes more often or address the root cause of why you're getting a lot of PMs.

I do clear it out often. The root cause is already known. I have friends on here who do not have facebook and sometimes we have conversations that only involve us. Other posters also email me asking for advice on various things. Then once I become mod there will be messages involving my duties on staff. I guess you wouldn't know since you are too preoccupied with shoving posts about why something sucks down everyone's throats to ever give anyone a reason to message you.

 

[Coco]

No, Dagger. I didn't avoid the question. I admitted I had nothing worthwhile to say, something you should try every time you enter a thread. Should I pretend there's something that I'd like to change? I reckon not seeing as I'm not a two-faced, lying git cut from the same cloth as you. I plan on winning this election and arguing my platform in the real world. I have no intention of apologizing for my honesty. So tough.

 

[Gelgarin]

A most important question: who are the other worst posters that the forum has ever seen?

 

[The Crock]

A most important question: who are the other worst posters that the forum has ever seen?

By Dagger's definition? Oh, Slyfox, Xfear, KB, you know -- those guys.

 

[SavageTaker]

How come you're not criticising Coco for avoiding the question by saying he'd change nothing,

Because he at least he supported his position on why he wouldn't change anything.

or Crock for having a similar answer in changing a cap on something? Those of us who receive many emails on here would benefit from the change I provided in my answer. Just sayin'.

Under the Miscellaneous part of the Forum Rule Book:

B. You cannot start new topics until you have reached 10 non-spam Posts: This is to tackle the issue of bots and people not looking around and starting random new threads. Even after your account's profile says you have 10 posts, it may take a few hours before the system recognizes you as being someone who can post a thread. Please be patient until the system catches up.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=59463

Therefore, as you can see, Crock's answer is acceptable because the thing he would change is actually in the rule book. Where as the amount of Private Message allowed on your account has absolutely nothing to do with the rules of the forums. I think you need to get acquainted with the rule book.

It does deal with the rules. No poster other than mods is allowed to have more than 50 private messages. Coco avoided the question.

How exactly did he avoid it when he clearly answered it. I would agree with you if he said he wouldn't change a thing and then went on to talk about something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Obviously that wasn't the case because he answered the question and he gave a reason as to why he felt the way he did.

Yes it would. All posters would be allowed up to 75 private messages.

Which, as I mentioned earlier has nothing to do with the rules. It's not even like you can give someone a warning or an infraction for something like this because there's no way for people to just get up and decide they want to be able to have 51 or 75 private messages instead of 50.

 

[Remix]

Yet another example of blind hate. You're only whining about my posts because other "cooler" posters that you want to like you also do. I happen to post a lot of original ideas. If you have nothing better to do than analyze my posts or posting style to death then perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you allocate your spare time. I'm sure there's plenty of things out there in real life that you could be doing instead. You know, things that actually matter.

I generally don't read your posts. You say nothing of value in the wrestling sections and I'm not a gamer. Given how often your threads are posted in I'm not the only person who ignores you. Going by the few things you contribute I can be arsed to read my statement is entirely accurate.

It does deal with the rules. No poster other than mods is allowed to have more than 50 private messages. Coco avoided the question.

Read the rule book. Is the PM cap mentioned? Then it's not a rule.

Yes it would. All posters would be allowed up to 75 private messages.

And again, not a rule. And you wonder why people say you'd make a shitty mod because you don't understand the rules.

[quote[I do clear it out often. The root cause is already known. I have friends on here who do not have facebook and sometimes we have conversations that only involve us. [/quote]

Issue: You talk to people more than most do and fill up your PM Box.
Solution: Talk to them using an alternative method such as MSN.

See how hard that was?

Other posters also email me asking for advice on various things.

Yeah, like I'm going to believe that.

Then once I become mod there will be messages involving my duties on staff.

You won't become a mod Dagger. Your party is turning against you, the few supporters you have left are costing you votes because of their laughable actiond while trying to defend you.

I guess you wouldn't know since you are too preoccupied with shoving posts about why something sucks down everyone's throats to ever give anyone a reason to message you.

First off, my PM Box has been getting filled up repeatedly over the last couple of months because of my activities in WZCW. Secondly I spend a lot more time doing things on here other than calling you shit. Which you are. For example, this afternoon I spoke to IDR about his medicine use and consiquently he reduced his intake of a Cyclo-oxygenase antagonist which is linked to nephropathy and peptic ulceration. I think you'll agree that I do things other than call people shit. Dumbass.

 

[D-Man]

I love the ideas in this thread that our potential moderators plan on doing "once they get into office." They want to change things like post counts before posting new threads and PM box capacities. Like they would ever have a say in any of that...

...no, but please, go on guys. This is awesome.

 

[The Crock]

I love the ideas in this thread that our potential moderators plan on doing "once they get into office." They want to change things like post counts before posting new threads and PM box capacities. Like they would ever have a say in any of that...

...no, but please, go on guys. This is awesome.

It was a question we were asked, I'm well aware I'd have no say in it.