Hardcore Wrestling: "Holy Shit!" or Wholly Shit?

[Tastycles]

I'll be honest, I thought of the thread title before I thought of the content, but it is an interesting question. Nothing polarises the fans and participants of professional wrestling more than whether or not guys like Mick Foley are great wrestlers or merely stuntmen. So where do you stand? Do you think that promotions like ECW and CZW are pure toilet filling, or do you think that violent weapons based wrestling is more entertaining than the mainstream?

Personally, I'm undecided. The guys who made it in that kind of promotion fall into two camps as far as I'm concerned. The first group are guys like Raven who use the hardcore style, but with a little finesse. Anyone can twat someone with a stop sign, but guys in this group use the weapons to help their wrestling performance, rather than just hitting people with weapons like a moron, which is what people in the second group, guys like New Jack, are guilty of. I didn't watch ECW very often at all, and I don't think I've ever watched an entire CZW show, so I'm interested in other people's opinions.

 

[THE Madcap]

I will admit, when I was a testosterone filled teen, that I was a big fan of the old ECW. It was edgy, it was cool, and the use of weapons was unique and different.

Only until recently, did I realise why I enjoyed these types of matches, because they were so unique. Back in those days, by and large you had the same type of match, back and forth basic holds and submissions, one big impact move and the match was over. The whack of a chair, clang of a trash can and click of a singapore cane were so refeshing that it made Hardcore wrestling appealing.

Now, for me, hardcore wrestling is toilet. I have no wish, want or need to see someone put through a flaming table, get wrapped up in barbed wire or fall onto an "exploding" pad. Foley v Edge at wm22 was the last hardcore match I can say I thoroughly enjoyed, because they told a story, were innovative and actually used some WRESTLING moves in it. Hardcore matches in themselves are highly unrealistic. If you were in a no DQ situation, really, you'd punch and kick a lot more, rather than setting something alight or look for a metal object to bend over someone's head.

I would much rather you gave me AJ v Wolfe v Daniels v Angle anyday.

 

[Pathogen]

I've enjoyed a reasonable amount of "hardcore" wrestling over the years, but cannot stand some of it. For instance, I bought an XPW dvd, and promptly gave it away to a friend, I hated it so much. But my KOTDM dvd may well be my favourite. I guess it depends on whether the violence in the match makes sense to me.

 

[Shocky]

It serves it's purpose. i'm not a big fan of the overly excessive Hardcore, XPW or FMW spring to mind, but I enjoy certain elements of the original ECW. I think divisions like Hardcore in the WWE and WCW in the late 90's was fun.

I like Hardcore if it fills a niche, as I'm a big fan of different types of wrestling. When you have divisions like the cruiserweights, a solid womens division, a solid tag division, plus you're world title, if you have room to establish a division for hardcore wrestling, then I'm all for it. Variety in wrestling is always a good thing, and a well thought out hardcore division is something I long for.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Mick Foley is not a stuntman - he is a great wrestler. Anybody that thinks otherwise is ignorant, plain and simple. His great matches aren't all hardcore matches either.

However, he's the figurehead of a 'division' (if we're going to call it that) with a talent pool that is massively variable and has produced some shockingly bad matches. Hardcore wrestling is often a cover for people who are just bad at wrestling. Like JBL has said, anyone can get in the ring and mutilate themselves - it's not something I want to watch for the sake of it.

Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman, Sabu - the main examples I can currently think of who have used hardcore wrestling to cover for their questionable wrestling skills. Sabu in particular is shockingly awful and is definitely the polar opposite to the exquisite Mick Foley.

 

[klunderbunker]

It can be ok as long as it's not the primary focus of the show as it became at times in ECW. You can't have it replace real wrestling and have spots become the substitution for actual moves. the other thing is taking ti too far. There was a "match" on a "show" that I saw where a guy took scissors and cut a 360 degree circle around another's arm. That's not wrestling. That's just idiocy and dangerous. I can live with chairs and once in a blue moon a table or two, but not ridiculous things like screwdrivers and hockey sticks etc. That's just freaking stupid and worthless.