Goldberg can beat Stu Hart, the master of submissions and the trainer of so many greats in the business right now? You're kidding me. Stu has made men bigger than that peanut brained behemoth cry like babies yet Goldberg himself is just so much stronger right? Stu is gonna know reversals or counters for anything the guy throws at him, and all it takes is one mistake for Stu to tie him up into a pretzel. I do respect his winning streak back in WCW, and the men he beat, but did he ever beat Bret Hart? No, he only fucked up his head and eventually made him retire. So what are his chances against a much smarter, and brutal version of him?
First Round: Boston - Goldberg vs. Stu Hart
- Thread starter klunderbunker
- Start date
I'm going with Goldberg. In my opinion, if WCW's booking hadn't gotten in the way, Goldberg would've been a hell of a lot more dominant. He's tossed the likes of The Giant, Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan like rag dolls. Its been pointed out that Bret Hart has beaten Goldberg in three televised matches. Well Goldberg retired Bret Hart with one good kick. I know Stu is a submissions expert among submission's expert, but how does that match with a guy who ran roughshot for a year. In a time when he was surrounded by men equal and bigger than him. The only thing that stopped him where backstage politics. I'm sorry but if this is a modern day wrestling match Stu would definably push 'Berg to the limit, but in the end an opening for a Spear, is all it takes to end it.
8thwotwATG
The Big Boss
I can't possibly envision how an ex NFL'er with a limited moveset is going to defeat a man known as a first class shooter and submission specialist. Goldberg's spear gets sidestepped and he's taken down and stretched until he passes out.
Oh please... the bear was his fucking PET. That means it was housebroken, non-violent, and basically a gigantic, hairy, pussy. We can't count that into the equation here.
Goldberg would run him over.
While I must admit I like Goldberg, I really do, and he's quite a brutality in the ring, he'd be a tough one for Stu to get over, I still think Stu is gonna pull this one out, like someone said ( I can't remember who, sorry..) that Jericho put Goldberg into a shoot submission, and Goldberg couldn't get out.
That's not really anything that's gonna win you votes against a submission specialist like Stu.
Also if we're to pull out some "non kayfabe material" then let's look at what Goldberg contributed, sure he became one of the most over guys ever to walk in WCW, but that's about it, and squashing through a whole roster, being undefeated for over 120 matches I believe it was.. (I might even believe it was an exact 128.. I'm most likely wrong) and if you ask me, that's where it stops, all Goldberg was is a intense and more over version of Batista, with different finisher, and I must admit.. I like Batista more of those two.
Anyway, on to Stu, Stu has trained, how many greats? yeah that many, his own children, technical greats in the ring (Owen and Bret to be more specific), Jericho, Benoit, Edge etc. the list goes on of great guys, future hall of famers, people who are already in the hall of fame etc.
I don't see Goldberg putting Stu out in a legit fight in both people's prime, or a scripted fight.
It's a close one although, but I really have my sight on Stu winning this one.
That's not really anything that's gonna win you votes against a submission specialist like Stu.
Also if we're to pull out some "non kayfabe material" then let's look at what Goldberg contributed, sure he became one of the most over guys ever to walk in WCW, but that's about it, and squashing through a whole roster, being undefeated for over 120 matches I believe it was.. (I might even believe it was an exact 128.. I'm most likely wrong) and if you ask me, that's where it stops, all Goldberg was is a intense and more over version of Batista, with different finisher, and I must admit.. I like Batista more of those two.
Anyway, on to Stu, Stu has trained, how many greats? yeah that many, his own children, technical greats in the ring (Owen and Bret to be more specific), Jericho, Benoit, Edge etc. the list goes on of great guys, future hall of famers, people who are already in the hall of fame etc.
I don't see Goldberg putting Stu out in a legit fight in both people's prime, or a scripted fight.
It's a close one although, but I really have my sight on Stu winning this one.
Just because a bear is trained doesn't mean it's not violent. A trained bear could still easily kill a man. Also, was the tiger he beat his pet too?
So are Rot Weillers, but people own plenty of them and wrestle with them all the time.
Lions, tigers, bear... OH MY!! None of this matters.
Inside of a ring, Goldberg would tear Stu Hart up. He doesn't need claws to a bite. He just runs full speed ahead, outpowers, and outlasts his opponents.
The bear fight can be counted as a keyfabe match for Stu Hart. If it happened in the ring, it means Stu Hart actually beat him in the key fabe sense. As we know that in a real life fight, Goldberg has no chance, and can only beat Stu Hart in a keyfabe match. And since Stu BEAT a bear in a key fabe fight, then he could easily beat a simple man.
TM beat me too it on the response, but read what he said. Stu beat bear in kayfabe. Bear > most men including Goldberg. Therefore, Stu Hart > Goldberg.
I've fought off a horse. A riled up horse is a fuck of a lot more dangerous than a trained bear. A horse kick can smash bones and stop heart, a bear has claws and can be quite slow. I'm here posting. Do the math. I wrestled a horse. Stu wrestled a bear. If I can go with a horse, Goldberg can murder Stu's bear. Animals don't mean shit. This is a one-on-one scripted wrestling match. If Stu locks a Sharpshooter why doesn't Goldberg just pull a Cena and stand up? Stu is gonna have to break bones to break Goldberg and unfortunately, this is kayfabe. Breaking bones is breaking kayfabe. In a regular wrestling match, intensity outlasts technique. Otherwise John Cena wouldn't be WWE Champion.
What the fuck are you even talking about? First, pictures or get out, obviously the horse wasn't trying to kill you.
Second, Stu Hart doesn't even use the fucking sharpshooter... Why the hell would he even use it here?
You might have made the worse post of the tourny. do you know how a submission even works? You use levage to apply pressure on joints. its not about breaking bones, its a wrestling match...
The bear wasn't trying to kill Stu either. The point was that wrestling animals isn't the same as wrestling people.I find that point irrelevant.Any animal can be trained. People can think. They can strategize, they can capitalize. My point about the Sharpshooter is that Goldberg can power out of submission maneuvers.It doesn't just have to be the Sharpshooter, it was an example. It could be an Armbar, a Legbar, a Hell Gate for all I care. What I was trying to say is that Goldberg isn't exactly gonna sit still. You asked for pictures of me with the horse. Unfortunately, I don't have any, but I'd like ask you of the video with Jericho I've heard of.
Like I said, this is about a pro wrestling match, not who's a better wrestler. In a pro wrestling match, a winner isn't determined by who's the better "wrestler". Its about who's best fitted to win. Goldberg has the look, strenght and intensity that gets any modern wrestler to the main event. Stu Hart is a phenominal wrestler with great technical ability. But so was Benoit, how well did he do in his career? Not as good as Goldberg.
How is a trained bear any fucking different than a trained man, despite having 5 times the muscle mass... That is the whole fucking point, Goldberg has a lot of muscles, but a bear has a lot more, it is a lot more intense, and has a much better look than Bill Goldberg. So in Keyfabe, Stu Hart is BETTER than a bear, and if a Bear is better than Goldberg, that means Stu is better than him.
As for the sharpshooter, now you are just lying. You obviously know nothing on the subject, you just saw Hart, and paired it with Stu Hart.
If we were going on shear looks, Khali has already won this tornament, so why even debate that.
I also think many people would argue that Benoit was a much better wrestler than Goldberg. And Stu Hart was a much better wrestler than Benoit, so I am not sure what you are getting at.
I actually cannot believe that people are using ability to perform animal cruelty as a reason for putting Stu Hart over. For all the talk of him being a great shoot fighter, nobody has any proof of that whatsoever. His wrestling career was less than ilustrious, and even by the 50s he was a full time promoter, so I can't see the justification. Yes, he knew a lot of shoot moves, but to be honest, so what? I know how to use an assault rifle, it doesn't mean I'm the best in Laser Quest.
Hart's biggest opponent is a bear. A fucking animal. I thought it interesting to see that someone claimed that to be a kayfabe victory. The fucking bear knew it was coming did it? Did he get the bear in the sharpshooter so it tapped out? Or did the referee just ask the bear if he quit and the bear said yes? Kayfabe win against a bear? Did he bollocks.
Hart has never won a regional title, which is pretty fucking astonishing considering he owned a region, and is apparently capable of beating half of Chester Zoo in a match. Goldberg annihilated everyone in his path, and did it with some gusto. Amongst Goldberg's victories is this gem.
What happens when you try and shoot wrestle with Goldberg? You lose and then get the sack.
Hart's biggest opponent is a bear. A fucking animal. I thought it interesting to see that someone claimed that to be a kayfabe victory. The fucking bear knew it was coming did it? Did he get the bear in the sharpshooter so it tapped out? Or did the referee just ask the bear if he quit and the bear said yes? Kayfabe win against a bear? Did he bollocks.
Hart has never won a regional title, which is pretty fucking astonishing considering he owned a region, and is apparently capable of beating half of Chester Zoo in a match. Goldberg annihilated everyone in his path, and did it with some gusto. Amongst Goldberg's victories is this gem.
What happens when you try and shoot wrestle with Goldberg? You lose and then get the sack.
Bears can run at about 30 miles an hour, about 4 times faster than a human at short distances. Dropping the bear argument is like dropping Kevin Nash, both were opponents of the men involved.
And as I said, anyone could have filled the Goldberg role. If Brock Lesnar that old, he would have played a much better Goldberg, because he was actually a good wrestler. If Warrior was younger, it would have fit him. Anyone could have taken that position, that knew how to do a bloody tackle.
Goldbergs career was short because he, like you thought he was much better than he was. That is the reason why WWE cut him, because he was shit, and after his one dimensional streak had ended, there was nothing for him to do. He is the face version of Umaga.
And as for you Mister Tastycles. If it happens in the ring, and is a wrestling match, its keyfabe. Otherwise, Stu, like every Canadian on earth, would have finished that bear off, simply by detaching the bears Jugular vein.
Sometimes animal cruelty must happen in the wrestling world. Such as the time Pepper was ate by Al Snow, or the time the dogs had to sit through the Kennel in Hell match. I can bring up countless other examples, like Chloe having to hang out with Torrie Wilson, the Camel having to have Hennan sit on him, or the time I hit the 5 star frogsplash on my stuffed bull dog (who was not named Matilda and should not be confused with).
He wasn't cut. He left on his own accord. Otherwise there wouldn't negotiations for him to come back. But the way you put it is as if Steve Irwin could beat Vader in a match. He wrestled crocodiles, should we put him in the tournament too? Stu is a submission specialist not an animal toturing brute.
OK, now you're just being a clown. The bear would totally catch Stu in a Cross Arm Breaker.
Goldberg. Even thoug the recent firing from Celebrity Apprentice may really hurt him here, it's still the right move. He was WCW. The most popular and dominant wrestler the company ever had. He at least has to make it out of the first round, right? I'm going to play the "he was better as a trainer than a wrestler" card with Hart, even though I'm sure it's already been used plenty in this thread. O well.
Power moves are great, when they connect, but unless you're a novice, which Hart is anything but, why would you just stand there and let yourself get hit? It's not like 'Berg was blazing fast. He was fast for a man his size, but not in relation to Stu. Stu was/is known for being able to tie up and make cry even the largest and toughest men, I just don't see why Goldie is all of a sudden so different and impervious.
Congrats. Your ass-hatted post defies every aspect of professional wrestling logic and manages to take a giant shit on everybody Goldberg's ever defeated in the process. It might be the most powerful run-on sentence in the history of the WrestleZone Tournament.
Why does it always look like people jump when Triple H pedigrees them?
Why are wrestlers so afraid to slip out of their tights when someone's holding them?
Am I honestly expected to believe a table bumb hurts more than your average dive to the floor?
If you're just going to avoid every rule the profession has established since the Abe Lincoln days, it's probably extremely easy to make a point. Unfortunately, you aren't going to sell many people on such overt tripe.
When Goldberg goes for the match-ending spear, Stu will stand there and not see it coming. Like the professional that he should be.
Nice hyperbole filled ad hominem. Apologies for the sentence structure. But perhaps you miss the point: People are claiming that Goldberg wins in part because the match starts and he just "runs full steam ahead" or "runs over Stu" etc., etc., I was merely making the entirely valid point that while his attacks can admittedly be quite damaging they have to connect, and to just say that he runs over Stu doesn't mean he'll actually do that. By that token I'll say Stu moves out of the way and makes Goldberg tap out. Bare assertion fallacies don't prove anything.
^This presumptuously assumes that first and foremost Goldberg will win with a "match-ending" spear. A point that hasn't been proven and in fact is at the heart of the topic. There's no argument there just an opinionated statement/bare assertion fallacy.
Also you say that Stu will in fact just stand there and not see it coming "Like the professional that he should be". And what's that profession? Professional Wrestler? Oh, so he's going to do "the job" i.e. lose a predetermined wrestling match. Gotcha
From that all I can gather is the best you can say is that Goldberg will win Kayfabe because you say so (which apparently makes it fact), and/or because Stu will be a professional and just stand there and get speared, and/or because Goldie's booked to win...
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
I'm not reading throughout this thread. I'm simply curious if the Goldberg voters are doing so because of that idiotic streak? You know, the one that was roughly 165 wins over cruiserweights, no names, rookies, and random guys that were never seen or heard from again. And filled in selectively by top names, such as Big Show and Hulk Hogan.
All that needs to be known, is Goldberg was the biggest pile of shit walking around a Wrestling ring.. ever. "I" could compile a list of 173 wins and no losses if I'm booked against guys half my size, weight and strength. I'm sure even more so I could do it with ease and greatness, if my opponents aren't even guys the fans are suppose to know.
I know next to nothing about Stu Hart. And I'm still voting for him, because all I need to know - is Bill Goldberg was the biggest fluke Wrestling has ever created. Talent or not, the guy was given all the credit in the world over stupidity. Again, I can't stress enough he defeated maybe.. MAYBE 10 top names in Wrestling. That being; Hulk Hogan, Big Show, DDP, Scott Hall, uhm.. Hugh Morris? no. Konnan, okay yeah, him. Raven, Saturn? I suppose under the right circumstances. Curt Hennig, Ric Flair and Steve McMichael. (don't laugh, he was big during their feud)
It is rather funny though, that the one group of Wrestler that Goldberg always seemed to struggle against.. was technical/submission guys. Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Sting, Chris Jericho, Triple H.. so, yeah.. Stu Hart probably could take Goldberg in my book. And some stupid streak isn't gonna be impressive enough to wipe the tears from his bitch eyes when he's tapping out.
All that needs to be known, is Goldberg was the biggest pile of shit walking around a Wrestling ring.. ever. "I" could compile a list of 173 wins and no losses if I'm booked against guys half my size, weight and strength. I'm sure even more so I could do it with ease and greatness, if my opponents aren't even guys the fans are suppose to know.
I know next to nothing about Stu Hart. And I'm still voting for him, because all I need to know - is Bill Goldberg was the biggest fluke Wrestling has ever created. Talent or not, the guy was given all the credit in the world over stupidity. Again, I can't stress enough he defeated maybe.. MAYBE 10 top names in Wrestling. That being; Hulk Hogan, Big Show, DDP, Scott Hall, uhm.. Hugh Morris? no. Konnan, okay yeah, him. Raven, Saturn? I suppose under the right circumstances. Curt Hennig, Ric Flair and Steve McMichael. (don't laugh, he was big during their feud)
It is rather funny though, that the one group of Wrestler that Goldberg always seemed to struggle against.. was technical/submission guys. Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Sting, Chris Jericho, Triple H.. so, yeah.. Stu Hart probably could take Goldberg in my book. And some stupid streak isn't gonna be impressive enough to wipe the tears from his bitch eyes when he's tapping out.
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WHO'S NEXT!? YOU'RE NEXT ON MY LIST STU HART!
I'm backing Goldberg in the tourney so I have to give him the vote. Better box office draw than Stu Hart, and while not a better overall wrestler than St Hart, he was still pretty damn dominant in the ring.
I'm backing Goldberg in the tourney so I have to give him the vote. Better box office draw than Stu Hart, and while not a better overall wrestler than St Hart, he was still pretty damn dominant in the ring.