Dolph Ziggler's Problem?

[justinept]

Dolph Ziggler is one of the most athletic wrestlers in the WWE, and in the eyes of most fans on these boards, he sells better than anybody. Am I the only one that sees his selling as a reason he's being held back?

I'm sure some of you think his mic work is the reason why he's had multiple pushes halted over the past year, but I don't buy that. In my view, he isn't given enough mic time to determine his ability on the mic. Instead, I do believe it has to do with his (over)selling. I'm sure some of you will think I'm crazy for saying that. You might have your own belief as to why Ziggler can't get over the hump. I'd love to hear them.

In terms of the selling, Ziggler more often than not allows himself to be thrown around like a rag doll, and he takes moves as if he's 150 pounds. While a number of fans can appreciate the athleticism it takes to do that, I think it makes him look incredibly weak. I find myself asking "How come when Chris Jericho takes the GTS, he goes straight to the ground ... but when Ziggler takes it, he goes flying like Punk's knee almost went through his head?" The conclusion I come to is that Jericho is stronger than Ziggler and is more able to take that move without getting killed. Does anyone else get this impression when watching Ziggler matches?

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

Yeah no other wrestlers have ever achieved greatness like that. Oh wait. HBK, The Rock, Ric Flair, Bret Hart should I go on? They all knew that if they were to sell their opponents moves it makes them look better in the end when they won. Zigglers time is coming don't you worry.

 

[Giddy]

I disagree. Ziggler's selling ability is just another part of his great arsenal, and I think WWE recognizes this. The guy can put on a great match, and I don't really think anyone else thinks more selling makes people weaker, especially since everyone knows it's their job to make the other look good. Ziggler's constant pushing and de-pushing is simply because he's part of the WWE, and WWE does this all the time. His time is coming though.

 

[The Crock]

There's certainly some merit to this argument. Ziggler's growing on me, but he oversells beyond an acceptable point. HBK and Rock oversold too, but I could deal with that -- Ziggler takes every single punch like he got shot out of a cannon. Don't get me wrong, he's an excellent athlete and is slowly becoming a main eventer, but there's a fine line between making somebody look good and looking like an absolute jackass because you fly halfway across the arena after a shoulder block. It's not that I don't enjoy watching Ziggler either, but his own health is at stake here too. Your body can only take so much abuse before you can't do what you used to do -- if Ziggler makes it his "thing" to oversell, what happens the day he can't do that any longer?

Even with his overselling issues, WWE seems to be behind pushing Ziggler and I can't say I have any qualms about it. I love new blood in the main event and I think he could make a decent main eventer. Hell, I'm curious to see if he can eventually have some success as a face too, though I think his true potential lies with this heel character. So, while I do take issue with his chronic overselling, I don't think it's cutting his momentum out from under him. Plenty of people love watching him and I've see guys like Billy Gunn and Mick Foley praise him and their opinion definitely holds some water.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The problem with his "ragdoll" selling is that it can go wrong, look at the Barrett injury. Ziggler has to take full blame for that, he had time to see Barrett was still there before he took the bump. He could and should have adjusted the spot but didn't, and Barrett was severely injured, screwing up storylines and nearly ending a career.

Luckily they found something for Barrett to do in the Colin Farrell movie and he'll be back, but to me Ziggler should not be getting his push ahead of him, as had Ziggler been safe that night Barrett would already have MITB from Mania.

Selling is great when it's done right, but as UK banks have found out mis-selling is bad... Santino is guilty of it too, he is a comedy worker, Ziggler isn't..

 

[thebarber]

Ziggler's time is coming, Curt Hennig had 11 years in the industry before he resurfaced in WWE in 1988 and got the Mr Perfect gimmick which was meant for Terry Taylor. Ziggler does not need to be rushed into a title run, it will happen.

 

[roethlisberger78]

Look IMO they are holding him there for the same reason all the older wrestlers had to wait several years to hit the top. I know in todays business if you dont hit the Main Event in 5 months then your a failure but thats far from the truth. The longer you let something get ready the better it will be when you let it go. The WWE knows they have a future hall of famer that is going to stick around for a while so they are making sure he is 100 percent ready to hit the top and break right through the glass.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

His selling is only part of the problem. He is a well conditioned athlete but his look is far from larger than life. His facial expressions don't connect that well with the audience. The only reactions that he gets are from smarky crowds that cheer for him. He delivers his few lines just fine but his voice is terrible. Compare his voice to others that have really connected on the mic (Austin, Rock, Roberts, Cena, HH, Macho). Those guys sounded like men, Ziggler voice is not deep or authoritative enough to demand total respect.

I think his selling is way too much. Not because it makes him look weak but really because it makes wrestling look that much more unrealistic. His best bet to reach another level with the audience is keep doing what he is doing (following Vickie around, being competitive, being a cocky heel but not cheating, and not winning a big one) until WWE has a big event in front of a smarky crowd (maybe even a WM) and let him shine. Those crowds are so anxious to make a new Austin/Hart double turn of their own they will gladly oblige (see 18 seconds).

But most importantly, change his stupid name. I can't see the guy doing any mass media with the name Dolph Ziggler (a play on the name of a Mark Wahlberg movie porn star).

 

[IT Factor]

I don't think Ziggler's selling is the problem. In my view, there are three major problems holding Ziggler back;

1}Lack of mic skills;

I think Ziggler is a great in-ring worker who's proven himself worthy of being a future top contender. The problem is that without good mic skills, he cannot get himself or the storyline he's in over. This is a problem as old as the wrestling/entertainment business itself. Alot of great ring workers, but, no mic skills to back them up. Without that essential piece of the puzzle, people won't care how great his in-ring work is. People have to remember you to wanna pay and see you. Dolph has failed in this department massively.

2}Vickie Guerrero as his manager;

Ziggler cannot establish his solo career by having Vickie do all his talking for him. I believe Stone Cold Steve Austin said this awhile back about him needing to break away from Vickie and doing his own thing[it was on RAW awhile back when Austin appeared, I think he was guest GM or somethin']. Dolph needs to have that breakout moment where he cuts ties to Vickie Guerrero and claims she's holding him back. That would go a long way to helping his solo career.

3}His look;

How are we supposed to take Ziggler seriously when he wears all those queer colors? I know some people will disagree with me here, but, it's true. How are we going to buy Ziggler as legit when he's doing all those fruity mannerisms and wearing girly colors? He needs to look the part to be a legit contender. Better ring gear would help make him a more presentable performer.

It's a shame, too. Ziggler has the potential to be a future breakout star. As long as he has these things holding him back, it'll always be just that; potential.

 

[Ryberg]

I don't think Ziggler's selling is the problem. In my view, there are three major problems holding Ziggler back;


2}Vickie Guerrero as his manager;

Ziggler cannot establish his solo career by having Vickie do all his talking for him. I believe Stone Cold Steve Austin said this awhile back about him needing to break away from Vickie and doing his own thing[it was on RAW awhile back when Austin appeared, I think he was guest GM or somethin']. Dolph needs to have that breakout moment where he cuts ties to Vickie Guerrero and claims she's holding him back. That would go a long way to helping his solo career.

Another person who seems to forget without Vicki he never got over. Every time they have tried to get him away from Vicki he goes back to no reaction. In all honesty I wish they would break him away from her so when he fails again I would have to stop hearing how Vicki is holding him back.Now my personal feeling is that his issues are not his skills or ability to put on a great match. My issue with him is that he's really nothing that special. He really doesn't have the "it" factor.

He will be a future hall of famer MAYBE! But if he is, it will be as a mid-carder MAYBE the holder of the IC a few times. But he will NEVER be a HUGE star.

He's another Swagger/ Drew McIntyre who gets thrown down our throats each and every week. No matter how many pushes he gets, he's never taken off. He's really just a glorified jobber.

Yes for the person above who said Hennig took 11 years to get to the WWE. BUT Hennig was HUGE in the other promotions. He came from a long line of wrestlers. Ziggler is no Curt despite how all of you want to believe he is.

 

[Bmauricej]

Big Show threw Ziggler to far. Ziggler ended up hitting the announce table and Barrett got injured. That's one.

Next, ZIggler can become a star. It kind of like HBK in a sense. HBK acknowledges his success because of being paired with sherri from in 92. It taken Ziggler much longer to find what fits him, but the fans are cheering for him more and more. You can hear it in his matches.

Remember Hening were lime green & yellow, Hart wore Pink, so its not the fruity color. It is a meaningful feud that he can carry. The problem is that there is no way to turn Vicki face, so it hard to just break them up. I would had him turn on Ziggler and then dump Vicki, but I guess Vince know what he's doing.

 

[wrestlehead]

Zigglers biggest problem is he doesn't have a decent gimmick. "The Showoff" is a great starting point, but he needs to go somewhere else from there! I think a feud with Vickie and another protegee of Vickies against Dolph could be just the push he needs, as it's no secret he needs more time on the mic to establish himself as more than a 1 dimensional superstar. He has an amazing wrestling ability and the "ragdoll" effect works to a certain extent, he tends to sell moves a lot better than 90% of the roster, but he also needs to find a balance between good acting and looking fragile.

 

[a member of wwe universe]

Dolph Ziggler is one of the most athletic wrestlers in the WWE, and in the eyes of most fans on these boards, he sells better than anybody. Am I the only one that sees his selling as a reason he's being held back?

I'm sure some of you think his mic work is the reason why he's had multiple pushes halted over the past year, but I don't buy that. In my view, he isn't given enough mic time to determine his ability on the mic. Instead, I do believe it has to do with his (over)selling. I'm sure some of you will think I'm crazy for saying that. You might have your own belief as to why Ziggler can't get over the hump. I'd love to hear them.

In terms of the selling, Ziggler more often than not allows himself to be thrown around like a rag doll, and he takes moves as if he's 150 pounds. While a number of fans can appreciate the athleticism it takes to do that, I think it makes him look incredibly weak. I find myself asking "How come when Chris Jericho takes the GTS, he goes straight to the ground ... but when Ziggler takes it, he goes flying like Punk's knee almost went through his head?" The conclusion I come to is that Jericho is stronger than Ziggler and is more able to take that move without getting killed. Does anyone else get this impression when watching Ziggler matches?

Look at how Austin Aries has been pushed since day 1. The guy can do anything in that ring but most of all, he has charisma, mic skills, great character that people can buy into. Plus, his push was never "up and down" but going onward only.

Problems with ziggler:
-he has no momentum with his push going forward. He has been pushed up and down for the past year.
- his mic skills sucks. (this is where people argue that hes not given much air time. Well until he gets his air time, whatever)
- Hes not able to connect to the crowd. There aint that connection or attraction where people can relate to him easily. Which we are going back to his mic skill problem
- his character and charisma. His character overall has been stale. He needs to find a way to "exaggerate" it. He needs to find the extension of his personality, which is the "show off," but able to portray that personality effectively.

 

[2Sweet_4Life]

I think he has 1 problem holding him back...His name. DOLPH? That's bad but Ziggler is worse he sounds like a guy from fraggle rock.

 

[TheLambofDeth]

lol @ Ziggler being shoved down throats. He's not ADR or Sheamus...dude's not getting an uber-push despite not being over or being stale, respectively. Wearing feminine color? But for all the people on Sandow's jock it's cool for him right? Never change IWC.

 

[Ryberg]

lol @ Ziggler being shoved down throats. He's not ADR or Sheamus...dude's not getting an uber-push despite not being over or being stale, respectively. Wearing feminine color? But for all the people on Sandow's jock it's cool for him right? Never change IWC.

Of course he has been uber-pushed! They shoved him on each and every week now on two shows and until recently got little or no reaction. He's been given so many title shots it's a joke. I dont care what colors he wears or what his skills are he is just lame and a modern day Brooklyn Brawler. He suits his job well putting over other in great matches. I think WWE has gotten the hint that after all the chances they have given him he will never get over.

ADR and Sheamus are a different forum topic But at LEAST WWE has finally learned with ADR he is getting no reaction from fans so lets change him and make him more heelish. Sheamus *sigh* as log as he's HHH friend he will always been in the title picture. Once Orton gets back you'll have three of the most vanilla wrestlers on Smackdown in the title picture.

 

[haning13]

I don't think Ziggler's selling is the problem. In my view, there are three major problems holding Ziggler back;

1}Lack of mic skills;

I think Ziggler is a great in-ring worker who's proven himself worthy of being a future top contender. The problem is that without good mic skills, he cannot get himself or the storyline he's in over. This is a problem as old as the wrestling/entertainment business itself. Alot of great ring workers, but, no mic skills to back them up. Without that essential piece of the puzzle, people won't care how great his in-ring work is. People have to remember you to wanna pay and see you. Dolph has failed in this department massively.

2}Vickie Guerrero as his manager;

Ziggler cannot establish his solo career by having Vickie do all his talking for him. I believe Stone Cold Steve Austin said this awhile back about him needing to break away from Vickie and doing his own thing[it was on RAW awhile back when Austin appeared, I think he was guest GM or somethin']. Dolph needs to have that breakout moment where he cuts ties to Vickie Guerrero and claims she's holding him back. That would go a long way to helping his solo career.

3}His look;

How are we supposed to take Ziggler seriously when he wears all those queer colors? I know some people will disagree with me here, but, it's true. How are we going to buy Ziggler as legit when he's doing all those fruity mannerisms and wearing girly colors? He needs to look the part to be a legit contender. Better ring gear would help make him a more presentable performer.

It's a shame, too. Ziggler has the potential to be a future breakout star. As long as he has these things holding him back, it'll always be just that; potential.

Definitely agree with number 2, yeah Dolph was going nowhere without Vickie as some of the other posters have mentioned, but this was only intitially. Now he's ready to go out on his own and this long and drawn out relationship with Vickie has set up the perfect situation where he can become more over with the fans regardless if he remains a heel or turns face.

With #1, I say he hasn't really been given a tremendous amount of mic time and he's definitely improved or at least show some more flexibility with his character. For example, if you watch some of his segments on WWE's Youtube channel.

His look: Honestly I think its one of the best things about him. It establishes his character as different then anybody else, a character that only he can pull off and back it up in the ring.

 

[Nate DaMac]

His problem is that he isn't very good. It's easy to get smarks to cheer you. Just do a bunch of different moves, no matter how ridiculous, unrealistic, and pointless they all are to any given match. Ziggler is great at being a glorified gymnast and that's what smarks really like, despite what they might tell you.

Ziggler is over with the smarky *****, but until he learns how to work a fucking match, he'll stay where he is. Punk and Bryan learned this which is why they've managed to grow and move up the card. Ziggler has a way to go.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I still don't get what everyone sees in Ziggler. He just seems like the guy that wrestles up to the level of his competition. I can't name a match where I have said, "Ziggler was the main reason why that match was awesome." Without Vickie, I don't know how much he'll get over. Vickie is his main source of heat. Ultimately, I see him as a Chris Jericho type. Dips his feet in the main event water for periods of time but never an impact player.

 

[JWGunslinger]

There's certainly some merit to this argument. Ziggler's growing on me, but he oversells beyond an acceptable point. HBK and Rock oversold too, but I could deal with that -- Ziggler takes every single punch like he got shot out of a cannon. Don't get me wrong, he's an excellent athlete and is slowly becoming a main eventer, but there's a fine line between making somebody look good and looking like an absolute jackass because you fly halfway across the arena after a shoulder block. It's not that I don't enjoy watching Ziggler either, but his own health is at stake here too. Your body can only take so much abuse before you can't do what you used to do -- if Ziggler makes it his "thing" to oversell, what happens the day he can't do that any longer?

Even with his overselling issues, WWE seems to be behind pushing Ziggler and I can't say I have any qualms about it. I love new blood in the main event and I think he could make a decent main eventer. Hell, I'm curious to see if he can eventually have some success as a face too, though I think his true potential lies with this heel character. So, while I do take issue with his chronic overselling, I don't think it's cutting his momentum out from under him. Plenty of people love watching him and I've see guys like Billy Gunn and Mick Foley praise him and their opinion definitely holds some water.

I find it hard to criticize Dolph for much of anything but this is something that could be put against him. His overselling can be a bit much at times, like Crock I enjoy when guys oversell but if anyone could afford to maybe not do it as much it's Ziggler.

Aside from that the only issue I have is that he's still with Vicki. She's been a great asset but I think that he really needs to spread his wings and get his ass out there on his own, he's at the point where it doesn't help him anymore and is on the border of making him look weaker. If he drops her soon and shows us what he can do on his own I think that'll be a good step in the right direction.

 

[Kong]

I think your correct. His selling is his best attribute. His worst is lack of size. I know CM Punk is small, but for some reason to me its just different with Dolph.

Anybody remember the Smackdown 10th Anniversary show? The Rock pretty much tore Ziggler apart on the mic to the point he had no credibility left.

I still come back to his size. Its really laughable to me that these are the guys are in the title picture. The belt would look pretty stupid on him.

Hes mid card and good at it. Keep him there.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

I know most will jump on me for this but THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVER SELLING!!!!!

I know everyone automatically thinks of some idiot getting one punch and then flying 100 ft. but unless your literally doing something close to this ridiculous, it is ALOT WORSE TO UNDER SELL THAN OVER SELL!!!

Think of The likes of Ric Flair, The Rock & HBK. All sell like CRAZY! sometimes almost too much but they keep it all consistent. Just like Ziggler IMO and that is NEVER a bad thing.

I can think of a couple reasons why Ziggler hasnt been used well in the last year:
-The Rock
-Brock Lesnar
-Paul Heyman
-Jericho Returns!
-Punk, Ryder, & Bryan Blow Up!
-WWE finally decides to use Big Show, Kane, & Henry Correctly.
-Ryback, Tensai, Brodus Clay All Re-Debut to Undefeated Streaks.
-And so far Sandow & Cesaro debut with Ambrose, Rotunda's, Tyler Black, & Steamboat Jr. in the wings.
-Not to mention WWE pushes Cena & Sheamus to the Stars!!!!

Ziggler has alot to overcome before being "The Guy" or even WWE Champion(sad but they used to be the same thing.)

 

[jacdnwarrior]

I find that Dolph's problem is his inability on the mike, and/or the failure of WWE to give him the tv time or right words (script writers) to say to help put his character over.

When you compare him to Punk, Del Rio, Daniel Bryan etc., those guys have command of the mike and are able do justice to their character whether they are a heel or a face. They can also back it up in the ring. Bryan has really come alive with the whole AJ/Punk triangle.

Ziggler can work in the ring, but until he can handle that mike and make fans hate him or love him as a character, I think he's always going to face a limit to how high he can go.

 

[rerun406]

as others have said, that's true and last night on RAW was a perfect example, Dolph didn't really do or say anything great, and basically had Vikki parrot back every statement Dolph said ... which didn't work so well

If John Cena can ramble about Star Wars for 4 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCnju_B9He8) Dolph should get a chance to ramble himself. Which brings to the 2nd point that his character needs to grow and develop more

**I've noticed this issue with another heel as of late in Cody Rhodes that both are just too bland. Guys in tights with not strong character

if Dolph wants to call himself a Show Off .. that needs to be incorporated into his current character much more

he's got a long way to go, but Ziggler can up his mike game and flesh out the Show Off aspects of his character .. it'll make him more credible as a main event player.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Ziggler's selling isn't an issue at all. It's his best quality. Remember, they are in huge arenas, you are telling a story to people 150 feet away too. You need to sell big. If people wanted a realistic fight, they'd watch the UFC. They don't, they want a show. Ziggler sells similar to HBK and Mr. Perfect.

Ziggler doesn't have a problem. He keeps getting better and more over. He hasn't found his unique groove on the mic yet, but he'll get there.