Dolph Ziggler's "Pipe Bomb"

Jack-Hammer

YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
After his match at the SmackDown! tapings, Dolph Ziggler cut a backstage promo for the WWE App, which can now be seen at a link I'll provide below, in which he delivers what may very well be his shining moment on the mic.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/tom-phill...his-match-wwe-app-exclusive-jan-31-2-26179139

Really intense, emotional stuff from Ziggler here that looks like he's POSSIBLY heading for a heel turn or maybe a tweener sort of role. This promo, this level of intensity is something we need to see more of on WWE television. I have a feeling that Triple H was ultimately in charge of this because it didn't come off as feeling remotely scripted. If Trips gets his way, and eventually he will when he takes over, scripted promos will be a thing of the past, I think. After all, talent in NXT don't do scripted promos.

I've been a fan of Ziggler for a long time and Ziggler can flat out deliver, so here's hoping that 2014 is a better year for him.
 
Decent. Much prefer seeing this side of Ziggler, almost Cena like, but not as cheesy and cringe worthy.

I'm a huge fan of Ziggler, lord only knows why he isn't in the main event picture.

Would like to see him cut a promo like this on tv, would definitely work as well, if not better than cm punks pipe bomb.
 
Wow, that was great. He's such a wasted talent ain't he? Another case of WWE booking just being awful at every possible level.

The promo felt real and that's something we rarely see today. Hopefully it's the start of something better, I doubt it though.
 
Wow, that was great. He's such a wasted talent ain't he? Another case of WWE booking just being awful at every possible level.

The promo felt real and that's something we rarely see today. Hopefully it's the start of something better, I doubt it though.

"awful at every possible level" is an interesting statement. I'd like you to take me through each possible level and explain how each of these levels are awful.



On topic, the promo was good. Ziggler needs to find his niche to get to that next level, and he's working on it.
 
Can we just not call it a "pipe bomb"? Please? It was a solid promo, but from the bar set was CM Punk, Summer 2011....that was a pipe bomb. Mainstream media discussed it the next day, names were named. That shook up the (kayfabe) world.

When AJ Lee did her anti "Total Divas" promo last summer, was it the best thing to the piss break division in years? Yes...but it was no pipe bomb either. But because she is hot, I liked the clever use of the term pipe bombshell, so I let it slide.

But what Ziggler did was not deserving of that type of moniker. Maybe if he mentioned being forced to play a cheerleader when he started or a golf caddy...maybe.
 
"awful at every possible level" is an interesting statement. I'd like you to take me through each possible level and explain how each of these levels are awful.



On topic, the promo was good. Ziggler needs to find his niche to get to that next level, and he's working on it.

I'd like a double cheeseburger with chips and a large Coke, not going to happen atm mate. What I mean is everything from how they book the wrestlers, to the divas, to the storylines, to the weekly shows, PPVs, etc. Everything has been beyond awful since Summerslam.
 
After his match at the SmackDown! tapings, Dolph Ziggler cut a backstage promo for the WWE App, which can now be seen at a link I'll provide below, in which he delivers what may very well be his shining moment on the mic.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/tom-phill...his-match-wwe-app-exclusive-jan-31-2-26179139

Really intense, emotional stuff from Ziggler here that looks like he's POSSIBLY heading for a heel turn or maybe a tweener sort of role. This promo, this level of intensity is something we need to see more of on WWE television. I have a feeling that Triple H was ultimately in charge of this because it didn't come off as feeling remotely scripted. If Trips gets his way, and eventually he will when he takes over, scripted promos will be a thing of the past, I think. After all, talent in NXT don't do scripted promos.

I've been a fan of Ziggler for a long time and Ziggler can flat out deliver, so here's hoping that 2014 is a better year for him.

Loved that promo from Ziggler, and yeah you could tell it wasn't scripted. Intense, personal stuff shot on a single camera. It's a good way to get the guys the opportunity to do their own thing without the writers or director getting in the way.

Will stuff like this ultimately mean the end to the scripted promo's once Triple H is completely in charge? Hard to say, because there are so many reasons they do them. I think the bigger influence on them though, isn't Vince, but rather the director Kevin Dunn.

One of the problems before Dunn, and before scripted promo's became the standard, was that guys had a tendency to ramble on, miss cues, camera men missed spots, and stuff had to be cut from the shows. Dunn is HUGE on the scripted stuff because he needs it to run a tighter program. The downside of course, is that these guys aren't really actors, and it's hard for them to get their personalities across so that they can truly connect with the fans doing the scripted stuff. But Dunn apparently doesn't care about that (he supposedly isn't the biggest wrestling fan around).

Get a new (better) director that can handle the boys ad libbing, and I can see the reigns being loosened up. When THAT happens though, is anyone's guess. Apparently Dunn is one of those 'job for life' guys in the WWE do to something he (or his father) did for Vince a long time back.
 
So I'm watching Ziggler's match - the one against Cesaro on SmackDown which preceded this promo - and... wow. First thing that happens in the match, Cesaro runs over and hits a dropkick, Ziggler sells it like he's been knocked unconscious. No hyperbole. Literally, that's what happens. He drops straight to the floor, totally limp, like he's knocked out. The first thing that happens. From a fucking dropkick. The man doesn't understand how to make a match flow; he just understands how to sell as if King Kong himself is hitting him. It doesn't look good, it looks silly.

So Ziggler's right - he is very athletically gifted. But challenging anyone to outshine him? Cesaro had done it that very night.

I could get behind him if he were half as good as what he claims to be in that promo.
 
That was the best promo I have seen him cut, it is just a shame it wasn't on the show. He touched on subjects that were bothering him so he had himself invested, leading to him showing heart. Now I wouldn't be surprised if we see he has heat backstage now. However, and I know I am giving WWE too much credit, if we do see he has backstage heat then I think we are starting to see a new approach to wrestling.....working the smarks.

It wouldn't be a bad idea, it would be a fresh take and it would extend the limits of kafaybe. Let's say the CM Punk walkout is indeed a work. It was first released in the dirt sheets. It does go along with the current Daniel Bryan storyline of guys being held back. Who is the next in line that the people want to see pushed properly? Dolph Ziggler. Now I am not saying it is a work, but if it was, then the next step is to leak that there is heat on Ziggler. Leak it first, then maybe punish him in tv, or he too walks out and they don't acknowledge it. Then his name starts disappearing from advertisements and schedules.

Now this is my idea and it will never happen, but here is my way of pushing these guys to the top. Now that there isn't supposed to be faces or heels, you do the following...
(and this is assuming you get Punk back, which whether he legit left or it is a work, I think he would come back if this took place)

One way or another, Ziggler is written off tv.
Before elimination chamber, have HHH insert himself into the match at the expense of Bryan. This will be more of the "machine holding him back. It would get the IWC pised for sure. Then the next week, the go home show, have HHH found backstage bloody and unconscious, but no explanation. Speculation can be anybody from the Wyatts, the shield, Bryan himself....whatever. Bryan gets his spot back.
At Elimination chamber it comes down to Bryan and Cena. Bryan is incapacitated. The lights go out and The Wyatts are in taking out Cena. Then through the crowd come Ziggler and Punk. They take out the Wyatts. Then as Cena comes through, they turn and take him out too. Ziggler and Punk leave and Bryan locks in the Yes lock. Now, if they insist on making Cena look strong, have him be unconscious so he can't tap and the ref has no choice but to ring the bell. New Champ, D Bryan.

Raw the next night, have a segment with somebody that can make a great promo even better, such as a Piper's Pit segement (They are launching the network this night and there are going to be a lot of people there, so Piper may already be scheduled). Now the Pit isn't absolutely needed, but it would enhance the worked shoot. Have Punk say how he walked out because he knows how bad he dropped down the card due to politics. Then he saw the same thing happen to Ziggler, and now D Bryan. He had enough and threw in the towel. Then Ziggler explains the same thing, so he left. Then Vince came to them and begged them to come back. They decided if they were coming back, then they would force change. They started that change with HHH last week, revealing the attackers. They say they will break the idea that you have to be big or well connected to make it to the top. No more 16 time champions, it is time for a fresh look, and a new Attitude. (fyi, this could be the start of a new era, the New attitude era. Not like the old attitude era, just a new direction and way of thinking, they can keep it PG if they want, the slogan can be either "A different attitude" or "a whole new attitude" or the like, you get the point) Anyways, they explain it was nothing personal to Cena, or anybody else, it was about taking the opportunity to make some noise and right the wrongs backstage, and they accomplished that because Bryan is the champion. Now you can have a new mini stable of Punk, Ziggler, and Bryan for main events, it doesnt have to always be Cena (and I like Cena, but I agree we need some new main eventers) Now this fits in with Punk against the authority, Bryan against the authority, and now you add Ziggler. Batista can turn heel by having a backstage segment with him and HHH where he says "you promised me a red carpet to the championship, which I really don't care about. I do however care about championship money, so tell your boy Orton to step aside and I will do what I am here to do."

Now the other big match at the chamber is the shield v the wyatts. I have to believe they are having the wyatts go over, but do not want to make the shield look weak. Therefore there is sure to be some type of dissention in the shield. My opinion is it will come down to reigns against all 3 wyatts, and he will fall just short, maybe from something that Ambrose or Rollins does. Either way, the Wyatts are build up for the Cena match, and Reigns continues looking dominate.

These ideas all set up a future Batista v Reigns match, that I would like to see since the crowd was so behind Reigns at the Rumble. They continue the Cena/wyatt storyline. They put Ziggler on the map, and they continue the Punk/authority storyline. You can have Punk/hhh or punk/can at wrestlemania, ziggler/orton (or Ziggler and punk trade places, it all works) And you still have the Batista/Champion, Daniel Bryan. This is all assuming that wwe is willing to start leaking to work the smarks in storylines to build buzz. If this started happening, it could be hard to differentiate purposeful leaks with real leaks, almost making the dirtsheets useless for real insider info, which also works in their favor.

Now this is the first storyline idea I have posted so far, so I have no idea if you all would be into that. I would appreciate any input, good or bad, as I am just tossing my idea into the ring. One more thing, I have followed all the threads for 3 years, but I am new to posting. I have enjoyed all of your ideas over the years and I look forward to being a part of your discussions.
 
What an intense promo that was for Ziggler. Very personal,very heartfelt and real. You could tell,it wasn't a scripted interview the man was speaking truth. He is extremely athletically gifted,unfairly gifted IMO but he doesn't understand the concept of making a match flow together.

He oversells a lot of his moves IMO,to the point of looking silly. Dolph is a solid mid-carder but unfortunately will be nothing more than that. He is not the IT factor like he thinks he is!
 
Great promo from Dolph, but until he cuts something like that on TV and gets a consistent storyline push off the back of it, it will remain another flash in the pan of what might have been.
 
Ziggler can deliver in the ring, he can put on great matches, and he's enjoyable to watch... but as many have already said, he doesn't understand how matches flow. He comes out puts on good matches, but oversells everything, it makes everything look like he's getting hit by a train. Doesn't matter of it's a punch or dropkick. Him overselling finishers is PERFECT, he sells them like they really do make an impact which is good, you want to make finishers look like they legitimately hurt, that's the point, they're suppose to end matches.

Ziggler does need a lot of work on that area, but outside of that, he's a great talent, has the look, he definitely has the emotion and intensity to carry him along on the mic, he has just about everything going for him in that sense, but the flow of his matches is off. Sadly, if Ziggler doesn't get that fixed, he's going to be nothing but a crash test dummy in the ring, sure he'll get title runs on the mid-card, maybe a match or two in the main event, but it'll only be there to sell finishers and moves from those higher on the card than him, his position is just about that at the moment, his selling is to put over other stars and show the impact they make. And being a fan of Ziggler, I'm saddened deeply by that fact, because he definitely doesn't deserve that by any means, but in the end, it's something he needs to work on, he needs to learn how the matches work, he's saying he's right, in a lot of ways he is, he's really good, and shouldn't have to stop being good just because management says so, but he needs to get the flow of his matches to work right in order for him to get anywhere outside of where he is right now.
 
It was his chance to vent and you saw he took it - but it's not going to change certain things about him unless he fundamentally changes his attitude in the ring to telling stories... He makes a rash challenge, 90% of the roster can and do sell at the right level... Ziggler only seems to know how to oversell and it is that more than anything that has caused his problems... The Barrett stuff was from him trying to be clever and twist to make it look like his head hit the barrier... sadly it was going to if Wade didn't take that hit and Zig got his push as a result of that... not out of being the "pick" but basically it was "Top Gun" mentality... "Barrett was #1 got hurt...You're #1..."

And he did fine with it. Until he got hurt himself and then it he didn't react well to losing his push backstage, he began to smart off and make faux pas... not terminal ones but just not what he needed to be doing in his situation. The Max Landis movie is a prime example - WWE makes a big thing of announcing if their guys are gonna be in a film, especially as Landis is pretty much the "rising star" of Hollywood... but Landis just Tweeted a pic announcing the cast, which meant Zig had turned up for the shoot... Contractually he may not have done anything wrong, but if he didn't "go through Vince" (who loves his exec producer credit on these films) it's a black mark... if it took him out of plans for a WWE film, it's a black mark... then the stuff with his brother, Cena trashing, more concussions... soon the black marks become smudges and a line through your name...

He is a very talented guy, this promo was a vast improvement but it was a rant, a vent - he can only do that once... What made Punk work was that although the pipebomb was inflammatory in its content, he could talk like that literally any time and we had seen that... it was the subject matter and the demeanour that made it stand out rather than the skill involved in delivering it... For this to make a difference to Zig, he has to be able to do a promo this good next week without the emotion and personal pain that you could see in his face... and the next week and the next... and that coupled with toning down the selling would work... the brass would love him again.

But as someone said, first dropkick he does down like he's dead... fine if that's the story and end of the match in seconds but it ruins the disbelief... so then cutting your best ever promo after one of your worst examples of shitty selling negates it almost. Flair famously told of Vince's reaction to Mania 8 in his book where Vince told him "...just when you are on the verge of greatness you screw it up.", referring to his unauthorised blade job. This week for Zig is almost the same. The overselling will detract from the promo after in someone like Vince's eyes.

I think Nick Nemeth can still be someone special, it's almost time for them to kill Dolph Ziggler off and let him be himself...the one thing I took from that promo is they might head that way as he talked about his childhood etc... ultimately even his name screams "Phoney wrestler" rather than "best out there now Punk is gone".
 
I laugh when people say that Ziggler over sells. It's something that HBK and The Rock used to do all the time. Have you ever seen Ric Flair do his flip in the corner or his face plant? It's part of what make him different from the others.

I hope this is leading to something. I can assure you that they would not have posted the video if there weren't ok with it. If the Punk things turns out to be a work or not if/when he comes back a new faction could be formed. Bryan/Punk/Ziggler. They could be formed in the interest of competition and even have very hard fought yet fair matches against each other too, not having a clear leader.

....one can only hope.
 
Wow, this was actually amazing promo/shoot. People have been saying that Ziggler is bad on the mic, but just one interview was enough to hopefully prove all the haters wrong. In whatever he said, he was spot on and pretty much correct. The guy has busted his ass, he is one of the best performers and is not given what he deserves.

I can only hope that this is a sign of the better things that will come for Dolph, because we need people like him, especially now that Punk seems to be heading out.
 
So I'm watching Ziggler's match - the one against Cesaro on SmackDown which preceded this promo - and... wow. First thing that happens in the match, Cesaro runs over and hits a dropkick, Ziggler sells it like he's been knocked unconscious. No hyperbole. Literally, that's what happens. He drops straight to the floor, totally limp, like he's knocked out. The first thing that happens. From a fucking dropkick. The man doesn't understand how to make a match flow; he just understands how to sell as if King Kong himself is hitting him. It doesn't look good, it looks silly.

So Ziggler's right - he is very athletically gifted. But challenging anyone to outshine him? Cesaro had done it that very night.

I could get behind him if he were half as good as what he claims to be in that promo.

Well, I guess that it is still better than Cena being laid down on the mat for 20 minutes after he gets punched once.
 
Probably the best promo I've seen from Dolph. Intensity, lots of raw emotion, and you could see the fire in his eyes. Although, if we don't see this promo on Raw or Smackdown, or if we don't hear any mention of it on Raw or Smackdown, then we'll forget about this promo in a couple of weeks. If this happened on Raw or Smackdown, you could have more optimism for Ziggler's future. But a promo on the WWE App? That's the elephant in the room you can't ignore.
 
Before everyone starts gushing too much over this promo and comparing it Punk's in 2011, I think some perspective is necessary. Punk's pipe bomb came during the main event of Raw, was immediately picked up by mainstream news outlets, and culminated in a WWE Championship run. Ziggler's promo was on the WWE app and featured lots of unnecessary screaming (whining?). I'm aware that Ziggler has a very high opinion of himself but I'm equally aware that he is, at best, a midcard talent with an injury history who oversells way too much. In other words, he's expendable and the more he shoots his mouth off the less likely it is that he ever gets a meaningful push.
 
I'm not totally sold on Ziggler being able to be more than what he is now. I was never on his bandwagon. And its because of his promo skills. It's not because of his size, or his look, and certainly not because of his in-ring ability.

It's when he is not wrestling. His promos always seem to lack something. Intensity, believability, and the ability of remembering and saying your lines in an effective manner. Granted, what Creative has given him to say over the years has rarely been that interesting.

But he does have his moments. His verbal beatdown of AJ in a backstage segment a couple of years ago was very effective. But his moments are too few and far-between.

This new video was also very good. Would just like to see something resembling that kind of promo on a live RAW. I think he is much more comfortable doing backstage, taped, segments which is fine. But show them on RAW.

And even if this WAS live on RAW, calling this the "Dolph Ziggler Pipebomb" get's a thumbs down from me. It may have been "inspired" by CM Punk's pipe bomb, but realistically, this is not going to lead to anything important for him to do up to, or AT, Wrestlemania.
 
I'd like a double cheeseburger with chips and a large Coke, not going to happen atm mate. What I mean is everything from how they book the wrestlers, to the divas, to the storylines, to the weekly shows, PPVs, etc. Everything has been beyond awful since Summerslam.

Why am I not surprised there's not one single example given here? (Spoiler alert: it's because there are no examples to give) I know the "bad booking" narrative has been popular on the IWC for a long time now, but can we just give it a rest at some point? It's not based on reality. It's based on armchair bookers who sit on their couch and think about what they'd rather see happen, and because WWE's not doing exactly what they want, they think the WWE's booking is bad. The same idiocy happens in pro sports too. Oh, this GM is horrible, I could run the team better than him. This coach is awful, I could coach better than him. No you couldn't and no you couldn't. You have no idea what it takes to run a team, you have no idea what it takes to coach a team, and you have no idea what it's like to script five hours of television a week plus three hours of PPVs a month. There's a reason these bookers are in the WWE. That reason is they're the best in the world at what they do. When the product sucks, I hate to break it to you, but 99% of the time it's the wrestlers, not the bookers. When Dolph Ziggler isn't getting the push you think he deserves, it's because he's not earning it, not because the bookers don't realize he's good.

So I'm watching Ziggler's match - the one against Cesaro on SmackDown which preceded this promo - and... wow. First thing that happens in the match, Cesaro runs over and hits a dropkick, Ziggler sells it like he's been knocked unconscious. No hyperbole. Literally, that's what happens. He drops straight to the floor, totally limp, like he's knocked out. The first thing that happens. From a fucking dropkick. The man doesn't understand how to make a match flow; he just understands how to sell as if King Kong himself is hitting him. It doesn't look good, it looks silly.

So Ziggler's right - he is very athletically gifted. But challenging anyone to outshine him? Cesaro had done it that very night.

I could get behind him if he were half as good as what he claims to be in that promo.

This hits the nail on the head. In the ring, Ziggler is full of potential. Unfortunately, he's full of even more holes in his game. Combine that with his complete lack of ability to connect with the crowd, and you have a guy that will never consistently be a main eventer. He's not CM Punk. He's not Daniel Bryan. He's a less goofy looking Zack Ryder. The IWC goes crazy over him, make him out to be much better than he really is, and unfortunately he seems to have a higher opinion of himself than anybody. That only works when you're actually as good as you think you are. Crowd loves to get behind(either cheering or booing) a guy who's great and knows it. Nobody likes a guy who's good and thinks he's great.
 
This hits the nail on the head. In the ring, Ziggler is full of potential. Unfortunately, he's full of even more holes in his game. Combine that with his complete lack of ability to connect with the crowd, and you have a guy that will never consistently be a main eventer.

Now I'm not going to say that he will for sure become a main eventer but to say he can't connect with the crowd is just uninformed. He got one of the biggest pops at the Rumble and when he wrestles there is usually a Ziggler chant. He's not DB over but you can't say that he isn't at all. His day will come.
 
Great stuff.

Not to split hairs, but I really would've loved a "show... Off" at the end of that.
 
Great stuff.

Not to split hairs, but I really would've loved a "show... Off" at the end of that.

I hear what you are saying, but I think that would have taken away from his promo in this case. For example, had CM PUNK pandered to the crowd after his "pipebomb" then it would have been more than obvious it was a worked promo. His mic being cut off sold it on potentially being real, thus leading to it being talked about on other media outlets. Just like the NWO, you want it to look as real as possible, push the boundaries. Making it appear as a promo takes away from any credibility as a shoot, which is why this promo is getting buzz.
 
LMAO
Really you guys think that was a GREAT promo?
Enough to call it his "Pipe Bomb"??
There is a reason it wasn't even on TV. Because it was stupid, whining, same old nonsense from "The Show-off" character.


I am actually a huge Ziggler fan. I believe the only way he is EVER going to enjoy success is if he gets a completely new angle or at least a major tinkering. The guy has HBK quality in-ring work. That's not the problem at all. What he said in this promo is absolutely true. The only people on the roster that even touch his talent is CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. Now one of those guys might be gone.

Let Ziggler be the top heel.
They ALMOST had it right when he was with AJ Lee and he cashed in on Del Rio. Then they brought in Big E. Langston to that scene (which he didn't need because Big E is good enough to have broke in any way they dreamed up) and it's like he had a Luna Vichon AND a Diesel type enforcer.


Once that silly idiot Cole started referring to Langston as Ziggler's "Heavy" three times per appearance the angle was just obliterated. Put the strap on Bryan and let Ziggler be his first main heel feud after. Let them organically work. CM Punk didn't headling when he was champ and i they NEED to put Cena or Orton as the main eventer than so be it...let the title be fought in the second to last match, steel the show EVERY SINGLE TIME and let these guys gain credibility.
 

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