Chris Benoit- What to do about Mr.Benoit!!!

Should WWE mention certain things about Benoit

  • Yes, at least mention him in certain things that he did.

  • No, he doesn't deserve even that

  • Split decision


Results are only viewable after voting.
Well if you want to believe the rumors that have been floating around the past 30 years... McMahon's not only always known about Snuka, but he might be the main reason he was never charged back when it all happened.

I can't remember exactly how the story goes, and don't really feel like looking it up right now, but when they brought Snuka down to the police station, McMahon was already there. He kayfabed the police and convinced them that Snuka was the same wild savage character he played on TV and couldn't answer any of their questions. McMahon then was able to convince the police that Snuka was innocent, and that was that.

Who knows how much of that is Internet bullshit, and how much of it is true. Odds are, probably some of it is, some of it's exaggerated, , and some of it's complete fiction. If I have to guess though? McMahon knew exactly what Snuka did. When it all happened, Snuka was McMahon's biggest star. Half a year later, he'd brought in Hogan and strapped a rocket to his back. Less than 2 years later... and Snuka was replaced with a look alike and trying to scrape together indy bookings. In hindsight, it looks like McMahon immediately began working on distancing himself from Snuka. At least until the heat died down. Unfortunately for Jimmy I guess... because by the time the heat died down, he was washed up.

This is tough to comment on. I mean, basically we're saying that Vince learned about the murder and covered it up, right? Personally, I can't believe that partially based on the time period and partially because part of this story sticks out like a sore thumb. If Vince was legitimately able to convince the police that Snuka was the savage he portrayed on TV, wouldn't he be a prime suspect? In character, the guy wasn't necessarily "all there" and find it difficult to believe that everything was handled through Vince. I just can't see how kayfabe could possibly survive throughout a murder investigation. If that's true at all, than I fear for the competence of the world's police force. Also this happened in the 80s when the internet wasn't even available to the general public. So who told these stories all these years later? How much of those stories became wildly exaggerated and blown out of proportion over time? With the Benoit story, we had all the facts instantly, but it must have been at least 10 years after the fact that the Snuka theory was put out there for the world to see. That's a long time.

I guess you can't rule it out, but judging on the gaping plot holes in that story, and also for my peace of mind, I'm going to choose to believe that Vince is not a sociopath.
 
This is tough to comment on. I mean, basically we're saying that Vince learned about the murder and covered it up, right? Personally, I can't believe that partially based on the time period and partially because part of this story sticks out like a sore thumb. If Vince was legitimately able to convince the police that Snuka was the savage he portrayed on TV, wouldn't he be a prime suspect? In character, the guy wasn't necessarily "all there" and find it difficult to believe that everything was handled through Vince. I just can't see how kayfabe could possibly survive throughout a murder investigation. If that's true at all, than I fear for the competence of the world's police force. Also this happened in the 80s when the internet wasn't even available to the general public. So who told these stories all these years later? How much of those stories became wildly exaggerated and blown out of proportion over time? With the Benoit story, we had all the facts instantly, but it must have been at least 10 years after the fact that the Snuka theory was put out there for the world to see. That's a long time.

I guess you can't rule it out, but judging on the gaping plot holes in that story, and also for my peace of mind, I'm going to choose to believe that Vince is not a sociopath.

That's what I mean. You have to take it with a grain of salt, but at the same time there is a kernel of truth there. It is true that McMahon and Snuka met together with the Assistant DA and the investigators 5 days after the murder, and all accounts seem to be that McMahon did all the talking. The then assistant DA has even confirmed that part to be accurate, so that's likely where the rest starts to take shape.

Believe it or not though, but the facts (or I guess rumors) for this were actually out there right away too. That started with the dirt sheets, and spread through the rumor mill pretty quickly.

Could a wrestling promoter kayfabe a police force? Especially the one wrestling promoter that was brilliant enough to build his little company into a billion dollar entertainment corporation and global phenomenon? I'm not sure how often you read stories about unsolved murders or stuff like that, but if you do there is a pretty common theme in them. That the police screw up. Most I couldn't see pulling it off, but McMahon? I could see that.

Would using Snuka's character be making him out to be the prime suspect? You'd think, but then again remember that at the time Snuka was one of the most popular wrestlers in the world. He was a good guy, and kayfabe was real. Even if you weren't a fan, and thought pro 'rasslin was phoney, people still had a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that the actual wrestlers might just be normal guys playing a part. Snuka was the good guy. Good guy wrestlers did nothing wrong back then. They were the ones who put their necks on the line to fight all the evil wrestlers. They were good guys and heroes. THAT, was pro wrestling at the time. That might sound ludicrous today, but it was a simpler time back then.

And I can see why McMahon would have kayfabed them to save Jimmy. He had just bought the company from his dad not even a year earlier. He was already in the planning stages of his global takeover. He had everything riding on this venture and if it failed, he would be ruined. If the news got out that his most popular star was being charged with murder? That would have ruined him. There would have been no coming back from that. If it was anyone else, sure. But not Jimmy Snuka in 1983. That would have been like the same thing happening to Hogan in 1985.

We've all seen numerous times how ruthless McMahon can be. I wouldn't call it being a sociopath, but I can see where he wouldn't have wanted to risk everything on someone he would have dismissed as just a ring rat (Nancy).

All that said, I'm sure the story got blown up and exaggerated over the years and that McMahon isn't guilty of some cover up. Something tells me he's the type of guy that would have been sending her family checks every year if he was complicit in anything out of guilt. I can just see exactly how the story could have worked if it is all accurate. After all, no one was completely sure of the Snuka thing until he was charged. We'd all heard the rumors and stories, but that's all they were. Just like with McMahon.
 
It's completely different. WWE owns all rights and privileges to every piece of footage they've ever produced. They CAN erase him from their history because they are a television show that airs every week, not a movie that's released one time and never thought of again. Movies are more comparable to wrestling DVDs. Do you think WWE was able to magically erase Benoit from all the wrestling DVDs bought before the incident? Obviously not. It's just common sense not to mention a murderer in a publicly traded industry...

Also, he was never found guilty in a court of law because;

1. He was dead.
2. There was no reasonable doubt in who did it. Benoit's the only one who it could have been.



Do you even know where all this conspiracy crap on Kevin Sullivan came from? From a man named Johnny Lee Carey, a former wrestler and KKK leader who was "saved" by God. But he's a reliable source right? He's the one who said Nancy died, "exactly 10 years after her divorce from Sullivan", but the guy shows absolutely no proof of that. Also, are you telling me Kevin Sullivan waited 10 years to hatch his devilish scheme? Why wouldn't he have done this back in 97 or 98? Why in the fuck would he have chosen a point in time when Chris and Nancy's marriage was basically over? This Carey guy was the first one to accuse Sullivan of being a Satanist, also the only guy to accuse him of this. Neither Sullivan, Nancy, Chris Benoit, nor any of their families have ever even alluded to this. Sullivan himself calls the claims total bullshit. Even if he were, if anybody had ever done some research on Satanism, they would know it has nothing to do with worshiping the devil or killing people. It's a form of atheism that strongly believes against the murder of children. As for the other theories such as Sullivan telling Benoit he'd kill him, who did they come from? This same fucking guy who admittedly never even met Kevin, Nancy, or Benoit. Nobody else has ever heard Sullivan threaten Benoit's life other than in storyline. He also goes on to say that Sullivan, is a "calculating, cold-hearted individual" yet he never met him. If you go watch Kevin Sullivan interviews or podcasts, you'll see how stupid this claim sounds. The guy is borderline cuddly. Basically what I'm getting at, is that thousands of people around the world believe all this shit and have no idea where it came from. One raving lunatic made all these claims against Sullivan with absolutely NO FACTS to back his claims up. As I mentioned, a former KKK member and somebody who's never interacted with Kevin Sullivan in life, and you idiots eat it up. No eye-witness, no forensics, no circumstantial evidence to even consider Sullivan as a suspect. But he still did it right?

As for the second point, they did follow through with the Wikipedia post. It came from a 19 year old kid living inside his mother's basement. He said it was a complete coincidence as he was reading up on Benoit's title match with Punk and heard multiple rumors that Chris was dealing with personal matter. A few rumors came across that his wife had died, and the kid just posted it because it seemed like a logical answer at the time. Unless you think this 19 year old somehow killed the Benoit family from his computer in Stamford...



No, they concluded he did it for multiple reasons, which have already been stated. No force of entry, no sign of a struggle, strange behavior, his were the ONLY prints in the house, and he was the last one alive based off his calls and texts. Let's put this conspiracy shit to rest man. At least there's some sort of basis behind the 9/11 theories, this is all just crap.

And while I'm at it, I saw somebody mention the Chavo thing previously. That's false as well. No article exists that states Chavo ever said he heard a scuffle when talking to Benoit. Chavo has never brought this up either. This is how mass ignorance gets started. People read something over the internet, have no clue what the source is, and take it as fact. Educate your damn self.


Firstly, WWE can erase Benoit from all their history, but I think it is a silly way to deal with things.

He WASN'T a murderer when he wrestled, only afterwards. So, you are not watching a murderer during that match, since he hadn't done it yet (if he did do it).

Yes, there was no guilt in court, because he died. But what happened to the right of "innocent until proven guilty".

If there were eyewitnesses, then why haven't they come forward? I mean, it isn't like Benoit can do anything to them to silence them, so they don't live in fear?

You know why? Because there are NO witnesses. This is no different to the guy found covered in blood in his home, over his dead wife's body. Now, did he kill her, or did he find her body, and is caught with her blood on his shirt because he was trying to revive her. People have gone to death row on such flimsy evidence before, and later found to be innocent. So innocent people's reputations and lives can be destroyed over circumstantial evidence.

How do you know for CERTAIN that Benoit is guilty? Unless you saw him do it. Now, on the balance of probabilities, it weighs heavily towards him being guilty. But the standard in a crime is "beyond reasonable doubt" and that can only be reached by a court case, where evidence is presented.

Why are you defending Kevin Sullivan? Firstly, Sullivan has a massive motive. Benoit stole his wife off him. People have killed for less.

Why did it take so long? Who knows. Maybe Sullivan tried to resist the urge. Maybe he had gone years trying to move on, and couldn't. Maybe his bitterness grew. Who knows? I don't, and you don't either, so don't be so definitive in your sweeping statements.

Besides, how does being "borderline cuddly" mean that you also couldn't be "cold and calculating". Maybe it is an act. Apparently, Ted Bundy was charming as well.

Also, the "Kevin Sullivan is a satanist" isn't a claim by one guy. It was Sullivan's gimmick early in his career, when he was managed by Woman (who was his wife at the time, Nancy Sullivan, later Nancy Benoit, one of the victims). Now it doesn't mean that Sullivan "lived his gimmick, or even held those beliefs. But to say that it is a scurrilious claim by one guy is a bit rich.

You say that people eat up Sullivan being guilty, despite no evidence and no witnesses. But you are doing the same thing with Chris Benoit.

Now, this could all have been avoided if the cops had chased all avenues first. If they had interviewed all suspects (including Kevin Sullivan) to see if they had alibis and to know who to clear of suspicion, if they had investigated further how the kid knew the death date to include it on the wiki page, etc. I was following the case the days after the event, and the cops said it was Benoit on day one. That is awfully quick to jump to that conclusion.

Maybe there was no forced entry because there was a knock on the door, and the person on the outside had a gun, and forced their way in, or made them open the door. Maybe the dogs didn't bark because they knew the person who visited, and later committed the crime. Maybe there were no fingerprints, because the perpetrator wore gloves.

Chris Benoit could have been drugged, or knocked out, or forced to watch at gunpoint. Who knows? These are unlikely, but it is possible, however slight.

Also, if they only found Chris Benoit's prints all over the house, then how come they didn't find Nancy or Daniel's prints all over the house as well? They lived there, so they would have touched things. How thorough were the police?

As for Johnny Lee Clary, I read that "National Enquirer" article that did the hachet job on him too, just like you obviously did. I don't think the "Enquirer" has much more credibility than some internets rumors you denounce.

I know that people think cops have integrity. But they are also human. They may have done their best, but messed up somewhere. Sometimes, mistakes are made.

This is why, in one way, I wish Chris Benoit had lived. Then he could be arrested and face trial. He could be interrogated on the stand, and we can hear his view on the crime, and decide if we believe him or not. We could know all the police's evidence, and have it tested. They would also take the stand, and the head investigator would be questioned as well. We would get a full understanding of what happened, and then know a lot better. The verdict could be reached, and Benoit could be held to that. That would settle things in my mind a lot more.

There is a lot more than any of us know. There are some things about that weekend that died with Chris Benoit, and may never come to light. That is why throughout and extensive investigation is necessary, not suspecting one person from the start.

Often, family members and friends are often the first ones suspected by the police, even when it turns out to be someone else (like a serial killer). Good police work involves eliminating suspects and then focusing in on one suspect. I don't believe this case was open-and-shut. Not when you don't have witnesses.

Police often have to determine the motive, means and opportunity of the suspect. So, what did they determine as Benoit's motive to kill Nancy and Daniel on successive days? Interviewing people who knew the family could determine this. However, it seemed like that they just went to the most obvious conclusion, and stopped there.

Also, think about this. Maybe Chris Benoit is dead so that he would be silenced, and he can't face trial, and he could say who really did it. Either it is a tragic murder-suicide by a wrestler who, for whatever reason, killed his wife and child, or it is the perfect crime.

You had better hope that the cops and you are right. You had better hope that new evidence doesn't emerge, which could clear Chris Benoit. Because a lot of people will have egg on their faces. But even if this happened, and the cops admitted that they got it wrong, you will still believe Benoit's guilty, because it suits your narrative.
 
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. OPEN YOUR EYES, SHEEPLE!

Bookmarking this thread in case I need to make a distinction in a future thread as to whether a poster is experiencing a momentary lapse in judgement, or functions around an idiot-level baseline.
 
Firstly, WWE can erase Benoit from all their history, but I think it is a silly way to deal with things.

Your opinion. They really have no choice in the matter though. It's just not worth it for a talent like Benoit.

He WASN'T a murderer when he wrestled, only afterwards. So, you are not watching a murderer during that match, since he hadn't done it yet (if he did do it).

I have no problem watching Benoit on the Network. I see his matches all the time when I'm going through a PPV or whatnot and they're obviously enjoyable. It's just tainted by everything he did afterwards. I'll never cheer for him that's for sure.

If there were eyewitnesses, then why haven't they come forward? I mean, it isn't like Benoit can do anything to them to silence them, so they don't live in fear?

Well, it happened in his house... Unless somebody was stalking the Benoit family, I don't see how there COULD have been eye witnesses.

You know why? Because there are NO witnesses. This is no different to the guy found covered in blood in his home, over his dead wife's body. Now, did he kill her, or did he find her body, and is caught with her blood on his shirt because he was trying to revive her. People have gone to death row on such flimsy evidence before, and later found to be innocent. So innocent people's reputations and lives can be destroyed over circumstantial evidence.

Yet wouldn't it make sense that if somebody had driven up to the Benoit residence with a gun sometime during that weekend that SOMEBODY would have noticed them? There's no eye witnesess because nobody was near that house around that time. If Benoit was in the house all weekend, it would make sense that nobody saw anything. Somebody breaking in and murdering three people over three days than fleeing the scene all without being noticed at all? Not a chance man.

How do you know for CERTAIN that Benoit is guilty? Unless you saw him do it. Now, on the balance of probabilities, it weighs heavily towards him being guilty. But the standard in a crime is "beyond reasonable doubt" and that can only be reached by a court case, where evidence is presented.

I don't. I follow Occam's razor though most of the time, and Benoit is really the ONLY one who makes any kind of sense. It makes all the sense in the world actually. Also, the "unless you saw him do it" argument is beyond irrelevant. Did you watch OJ murder his wife and her lover? Did you personally watch the Nazi's exterminate the Jews? Than how do you KNOW it happened?

Yes, but in this case, as I mentioned, there were no other possible suspects. There was no doubt and therefore no reason to go to court. If there was ANY sort of evidence to remotely link anybody else than there would have been a court case. But there wasn't.

Why are you defending Kevin Sullivan? Firstly, Sullivan has a massive motive. Benoit stole his wife off him. People have killed for less.

Why are you defending Benoit? Sullivan had a motive 18 years ago. 10 years after the fact? Not so much. And yeah people have killed over fucking shoes, but those people are psychos... has nothing to do with anything.

Why did it take so long? Who knows. Maybe Sullivan tried to resist the urge. Maybe he had gone years trying to move on, and couldn't. Maybe his bitterness grew. Who knows? I don't, and you don't either, so don't be so definitive in your sweeping statements.

Or maybe, y'know, he didn't do it? I'm sorry, excuse me for being against the wrongful persecution of a man who has done nothing at all to earn it. Would you like people assuming you're a murderer based off some bullshit facts? Kevin Sullivan is a person. To paint somebody as a murderer when they're not is dehumanizing.

Besides, how does being "borderline cuddly" mean that you also couldn't be "cold and calculating". Maybe it is an act. Apparently, Ted Bundy was charming as well.

Ted Bundy wasn't on TV doing interviews for 30 years. He wasn't in the spotlight until he murdered all those people. Also, Bundy definitely had the deposition of a killer. Sullivan just doesn't.

Also, the "Kevin Sullivan is a satanist" isn't a claim by one guy. It was Sullivan's gimmick early in his career, when he was managed by Woman (who was his wife at the time, Nancy Sullivan, later Nancy Benoit, one of the victims). Now it doesn't mean that Sullivan "lived his gimmick, or even held those beliefs. But to say that it is a scurrilious claim by one guy is a bit rich.

Yeah I know all that, it's common knowledge. To say that it is a scurillious (no clue what that word means) claim by one guy is the TRUTH. He's the only one to actually say that Sullivan was a real Satanist. The ONLY one. I've heard stories that Sullivan did in fact research Satanic cults in preparation for his gimmick, but to make the jump from kayfabe to reality is "rich". Might as well say George The Animal Steele is actually a semi-handicapped Neanderthal or El Torito's actually a bull.

Also, I'll reiterate again. Satanism has nothing to do with revenge or killing people. It's another form of radical atheism. That's about it.

You say that people eat up Sullivan being guilty, despite no evidence and no witnesses. But you are doing the same thing with Chris Benoit.

Fuck man, there IS evidence! What aren't you getting?

Now, this could all have been avoided if the cops had chased all avenues first. If they had interviewed all suspects (including Kevin Sullivan) to see if they had alibis and to know who to clear of suspicion, if they had investigated further how the kid knew the death date to include it on the wiki page, etc. I was following the case the days after the event, and the cops said it was Benoit on day one. That is awfully quick to jump to that conclusion.

:icon_neutral: :disappointed: I've already dealt with this.

Maybe there was no forced entry because there was a knock on the door, and the person on the outside had a gun, and forced their way in, or made them open the door. Maybe the dogs didn't bark because they knew the person who visited, and later committed the crime. Maybe there were no fingerprints, because the perpetrator wore gloves.

Or maybe there was no forced entry because nobody went to that house. Maybe the dogs didn't bark because there was no reason to with their family inside the house. Maybe there were no fingerprints because nobody was in that house alive, other than Benoit. What makes more SENSE?

Chris Benoit could have been drugged, or knocked out, or forced to watch at gunpoint. Who knows? These are unlikely, but it is possible, however slight.

You just said unlikely. So why do you keep pushing this? Anything's possible. Mary fucking Poppins could have floated down from the sky and committed these crimes. Why focus solely on Sullivan? Why is this Carey guy pushing so hard? What is he trying to cover up? See how ridiculous that sounds?

Also, if they only found Chris Benoit's prints all over the house, then how come they didn't find Nancy or Daniel's prints all over the house as well? They lived there, so they would have touched things. How thorough were the police?

I'm guessing cus Benoit was the only one running around that house for three days, probably freaking out over what he was doing. Nancy was dead and Daniel was drugged while Benoit was still alive for two more days.

As for Johnny Lee Clary, I read that "National Enquirer" article that did the hachet job on him too, just like you obviously did. I don't think the "Enquirer" has much more credibility than some internets rumors you denounce.

It's not a hatchet job. It's the truth. Give me any sort of factual proof that anything this guy said was true. ANY proof.

This is why, in one way, I wish Chris Benoit had lived. Then he could be arrested and face trial. He could be interrogated on the stand, and we can hear his view on the crime, and decide if we believe him or not. We could know all the police's evidence, and have it tested. They would also take the stand, and the head investigator would be questioned as well. We would get a full understanding of what happened, and then know a lot better. The verdict could be reached, and Benoit could be held to that. That would settle things in my mind a lot more.

I doubt it would have changed anything. He probably would have been deemed unfit for trial.

But even if this happened, and the cops admitted that they got it wrong, you will still believe Benoit's guilty, because it suits your narrative.

No, you're wrong about this. I'm not one of those people who will make up bullshit claims in the face of overwhelming evidence. If Benoit was ever cleared of his charges, you have no clue how happy I'd be. I was a huge fan of Benoit since his WCW days. I rooted for him AGAINST Sullivan in their kayfabe/shoot feud. Learning about what he did devastated me.
 
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. OPEN YOUR EYES, SHEEPLE!

Bookmarking this thread in case I need to make a distinction in a future thread as to whether a poster is experiencing a momentary lapse in judgement, or functions around an idiot-level baseline.

Directed at me? I don't believe any of that crap about 9/11 either by the way. I'm just saying, at least there's some wiggle room in that case for theorists to spin shit their way. There's not much when it comes to Benoit.
 
Is anybody saying Snuka should be mentioned on TV? Cus yeah, he's a piece of shit too by the way. Also, all this stuff with Snuka just recently came to light so unless your implying Vince knew about it (which I wouldn't be surprised if you were) what could WWE have done 5 years ago? The case was always open but Snuka was never charged, so let's not act like WWE KNEW Snuka did what he did. Now that everybody knows what a crazy fuck that guy is, you think WWE will ever promote him again?

Just think of what happened over the course of those three days. Think about what happened in that house. According to police reports, Benoit bound his wife's limbs up, wrapped her in a towel so she couldn't move, put his knee on her back, and strangled the life out of her. He didn't sedate her like he did his son. Why not? He wanted to scare her and punish her. He then took the time to call some friends, specifically Chavo to tell him, "I love you". Would an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient have the wherewithal to do that? Than he moved on to his drugged, 7 year old son. Think he looked at him before he suffocated him?

This isn't pretty to hear but people like you want to look at this so clinically it's almost sickening. The guy lost his fucking mind yeah, but he was obviously violent and in control enough to plan the murders of his family. Fuck Benoit. I couldn't give less of a shit about his wrestling career. The guy commited the worst crime I could imagine. You need to take a look in the mirror man, really.

Vince DID know about this... when it happened, when the civil case judge ruled Snuka responsible, he knew about it...

Are you really trying to say that Vince knew NOTHING about his top star of the time being involved in a homicide investigation at the time? If you are, and it really looks like you are, then I can't take any of your Benoit bile seriously.

The only way it SHOULD be looked at is clinically, dispassionately... had he lived he'd NEVER have seen a jail cell, he'd have been in hospital for the rest of his natural life, which would have been short anyway due to other health issues they found. I don't need to look in any mirrors, I know three seperate people who have, in my lifetime been murdered and was within 10 minutes of it myself but for blind luck once and with that I can say that who dies is immaterial... if someone loses capacity (this is also part of my job, so I know law on this) then they are NOT responsible, if it's a kid...their wife, a bus driver....anyone... Benoit was not capable because he had lost that capacity... that is the worst case scenario in this, not an excuse...

Those who say he'd have "gotten the chair" or jail time are dead wrong... he'd have been declared incapable and locked away quietly and we'd all be saying what a tragedy it was, rather than calling him a monster.... but it's more convenient to use that label, because a child died.

Anyone who believes it's worse "cos it's a child", parent or not, are the ones who need to look in a mirror... To commit pre-meditated murder, you need capacity... Benoit didn't have it... as much as you won't like it.
 
Vince DID know about this... when it happened, when the civil case judge ruled Snuka responsible, he knew about it...

Are you really trying to say that Vince knew NOTHING about his top star of the time being involved in a homicide investigation at the time? If you are, and it really looks like you are, then I can't take any of your Benoit bile seriously.

No, no, no, you implied that Vince knew that Snuka committed murder. Obviously, he knew that Snuka was involved in a homicide investigation, but that doesn't mean Vince somehow covered the whole thing up. When I said all this stuff has recently come to light, I'm talking about all the new evidence that is just now sufficient enough to charge the guy. He was never charged in a criminal court, and before you say it civil court is not the same thing. Vince may have made himself ignorant to the facts at the time, but as long as Snuka wasn't criminally charged, he didn't have to do anything about it. Were Snuka to be charged, he and Benoit would be on the same level as they should be.

And how the fuck am I spewing bile? Because I'm saying that he's responsible and not Kevin Sullivan?

The only way it SHOULD be looked at is clinically, dispassionately... had he lived he'd NEVER have seen a jail cell, he'd have been in hospital for the rest of his natural life, which would have been short anyway due to other health issues they found. I don't need to look in any mirrors, I know three seperate people who have, in my lifetime been murdered and was within 10 minutes of it myself but for blind luck once and with that I can say that who dies is immaterial... if someone loses capacity (this is also part of my job, so I know law on this) then they are NOT responsible, if it's a kid...their wife, a bus driver....anyone... Benoit was not capable because he had lost that capacity... that is the worst case scenario in this, not an excuse...

You can't say that based off just his brain scans. He was coherent enough to know what he was doing, AT LEAST IN SOME SENSE. Otherwise, why would he have drugged his son? Some part of him didn't want Daniel to feel any fear or pain. He was coherent enough to call Chavo and others and leave them their address. He planned this stuff out over three days. It isn't just like he all of the sudden lost his mind, flew into a rage, and shot his family before turning the gun on himself. He was somewhat in control. I mean the guy was wrestling matches 2 weeks before, and nobody noticed anything. Are you telling me that at that exact moment when he decided to kill his family, his brain all of the sudden turned to mush? Sorry, I just don't believe that.

Those who say he'd have "gotten the chair" or jail time are dead wrong... he'd have been declared incapable and locked away quietly and we'd all be saying what a tragedy it was, rather than calling him a monster.... but it's more convenient to use that label, because a child died.

Probably right about the locked away part. They would have pled insanity even if he weren't insane. But we'd still be calling him a monster for murdering his family.

Anyone who believes it's worse "cos it's a child", parent or not, are the ones who need to look in a mirror... To commit pre-meditated murder, you need capacity... Benoit didn't have it... as much as you won't like it.

Killing a child makes it "worse" in some peoples eyes because of the innocence of the kid. Daniel was 7. He had his chance at life taken from him. He was in no part responsible for any of the problems that was going on with Benoit and Nancy. But yeah, anyone who commits pre-meditated murder is scum.

Perhaps, PERHAPS, if I were to believe that Benoit really had no idea what he was doing, I could look at this on the same level as you. But again, I don't believe that. Just seems like a fucking excuse for you to continuously tout your (seeming) hero.
 
Your opinion. They really have no choice in the matter though. It's just not worth it for a talent like Benoit.



I have no problem watching Benoit on the Network. I see his matches all the time when I'm going through a PPV or whatnot and they're obviously enjoyable. It's just tainted by everything he did afterwards. I'll never cheer for him that's for sure.



Well, it happened in his house... Unless somebody was stalking the Benoit family, I don't see how there COULD have been eye witnesses.



Yet wouldn't it make sense that if somebody had driven up to the Benoit residence with a gun sometime during that weekend that SOMEBODY would have noticed them? There's no eye witnesess because nobody was near that house around that time. If Benoit was in the house all weekend, it would make sense that nobody saw anything. Somebody breaking in and murdering three people over three days than fleeing the scene all without being noticed at all? Not a chance man.



I don't. I follow Occam's razor though most of the time, and Benoit is really the ONLY one who makes any kind of sense. It makes all the sense in the world actually. Also, the "unless you saw him do it" argument is beyond irrelevant. Did you watch OJ murder his wife and her lover? Did you personally watch the Nazi's exterminate the Jews? Than how do you KNOW it happened?

Yes, but in this case, as I mentioned, there were no other possible suspects. There was no doubt and therefore no reason to go to court. If there was ANY sort of evidence to remotely link anybody else than there would have been a court case. But there wasn't.



Why are you defending Benoit? Sullivan had a motive 18 years ago. 10 years after the fact? Not so much. And yeah people have killed over fucking shoes, but those people are psychos... has nothing to do with anything.



Or maybe, y'know, he didn't do it? I'm sorry, excuse me for being against the wrongful persecution of a man who has done nothing at all to earn it. Would you like people assuming you're a murderer based off some bullshit facts? Kevin Sullivan is a person. To paint somebody as a murderer when they're not is dehumanizing.



Ted Bundy wasn't on TV doing interviews for 30 years. He wasn't in the spotlight until he murdered all those people. Also, Bundy definitely had the deposition of a killer. Sullivan just doesn't.



Yeah I know all that, it's common knowledge. To say that it is a scurillious (no clue what that word means) claim by one guy is the TRUTH. He's the only one to actually say that Sullivan was a real Satanist. The ONLY one. I've heard stories that Sullivan did in fact research Satanic cults in preparation for his gimmick, but to make the jump from kayfabe to reality is "rich". Might as well say George The Animal Steele is actually a semi-handicapped Neanderthal or El Torito's actually a bull.

Also, I'll reiterate again. Satanism has nothing to do with revenge or killing people. It's another form of radical atheism. That's about it.



Fuck man, there IS evidence! What aren't you getting?



:icon_neutral: :disappointed: I've already dealt with this.



Or maybe there was no forced entry because nobody went to that house. Maybe the dogs didn't bark because there was no reason to with their family inside the house. Maybe there were no fingerprints because nobody was in that house alive, other than Benoit. What makes more SENSE?



You just said unlikely. So why do you keep pushing this? Anything's possible. Mary fucking Poppins could have floated down from the sky and committed these crimes. Why focus solely on Sullivan? Why is this Carey guy pushing so hard? What is he trying to cover up? See how ridiculous that sounds?



I'm guessing cus Benoit was the only one running around that house for three days, probably freaking out over what he was doing. Nancy was dead and Daniel was drugged while Benoit was still alive for two more days.



It's not a hatchet job. It's the truth. Give me any sort of factual proof that anything this guy said was true. ANY proof.



I doubt it would have changed anything. He probably would have been deemed unfit for trial.



No, you're wrong about this. I'm not one of those people who will make up bullshit claims in the face of overwhelming evidence. If Benoit was ever cleared of his charges, you have no clue how happy I'd be. I was a huge fan of Benoit since his WCW days. I rooted for him AGAINST Sullivan in their kayfabe/shoot feud. Learning about what he did devastated me.



But your post proves my point. No-one KNOWS what has happened. Not me, not you, and not the police.

Any speculation is just that, speculation. What happened that weekend and why, died with the people in the house. None of us may ever know what really happened.

My point is, it is the job of the police to interview every suspect, follow every lead. What was their hurry? It isn't like that, if they take too long, Benoit could kill more people. He was dead, so they had time to work on the case, and cover all bases, so that, down the track, new evidence doesn't emerge and show them up.

If they are so sure Benoit did it, then why not cover all bases. They don't know everything, so a bit more investigation would be handy.

It will be mighty embarrassing for many if the case is re-opened, and new evidence were to clear Chris Benoit. The fallout, criticism by the media, and ramifications would be huge. Benoit's parents, and Benoit's children could sue the police or WWE or both.

For one, would this turn of events mean that, not only would Benoit now be eligible for the WWE HoF, but put in ASAP, since the media would ask why they are keeping a wrongly accussed man out of the HoF. Would his rep be restored?

I can think of times where people's reputation are destroyed by wrongful accusations, and their standing never recovers. I know of three cases where the police arrested someone, and then it turned out that they didn't do it.

What if all of you are wrong? You may not be, but what if you are? No-one knows, yet a man's reputation and standing depends on being 100% certain what happened, then everything has to be done to make sure you have the right person, and an innocent man is not thought of as a guilty one, or vice versa.
 
But your post proves my point. No-one KNOWS what has happened. Not me, not you, and not the police.

Any speculation is just that, speculation. What happened that weekend and why, died with the people in the house. None of us may ever know what really happened.

You are absolutely right on most of what you say there. No one knows exactly what happened in that house that weekend. Three of the people are dead and can't talk, so the police have to talk for them. And I do believe they know what happened after being there.

My point is, it is the job of the police to interview every suspect, follow every lead. What was their hurry? It isn't like that, if they take too long, Benoit could kill more people. He was dead, so they had time to work on the case, and cover all bases, so that, down the track, new evidence doesn't emerge and show them up.

If they are so sure Benoit did it, then why not cover all bases. They don't know everything, so a bit more investigation would be handy.

How do you know they didn't cover all the bases, how do you know they didn't do their jobs? Was it because they determined that Benoit was the killer? Would you have been happier if this case had remained open forever until maybe one day some sort of evidence came forward that someone else might have done it? And what if that evidence never comes forward, what if they have the killer all along? When should they close a case in your estimation?

It will be mighty embarrassing for many if the case is re-opened, and new evidence were to clear Chris Benoit. The fallout, criticism by the media, and ramifications would be huge. Benoit's parents, and Benoit's children could sue the police or WWE or both.

For one, would this turn of events mean that, not only would Benoit now be eligible for the WWE HoF, but put in ASAP, since the media would ask why they are keeping a wrongly accussed man out of the HoF. Would his rep be restored?

I'm pretty sure the Hall of Fame question would be the last question they would ask to be honest. The media would want to know why the killer got away, and why the police missed crucial evidence. Why would the family sue the police or the WWE? The police do the best job they can, and the WWE were the ones who told them about the situation and lead them to the bodies. Unless you are suggesting someone in the WWE killed Benoit and his family.

I can think of times where people's reputation are destroyed by wrongful accusations, and their standing never recovers. I know of three cases where the police arrested someone, and then it turned out that they didn't do it.

Yes I have heard of cases where that happens as well, and I feel sorry for the people involved. It has happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again. But what do you suggest the police do, not investigate crimes, not arrest anyone, not put anyone in jail? Should we just let the criminals run wild in case an innocent person gets blamed?

What if all of you are wrong? You may not be, but what if you are? No-one knows, yet a man's reputation and standing depends on being 100% certain what happened, then everything has to be done to make sure you have the right person, and an innocent man is not thought of as a guilty one, or vice versa.

And in most cases that happens, it is very rare that an innocent person suffers. I'm not saying it never happens, but I'm sure everyone from the police to the courts try to make sure they have the right party.

The thing that got me the most with the Benoit case was the phone call he made to Chavo on Sunday. Chavo told people Benoit called him and told him his wife and son were throwing up blood and he was taking them to the hospital. The medical examiner determined by the state of the decomposition there was no way she was alive on Sunday, she had been dead 48 hours or more. Which means she was killed on Saturday. That is backed up by medical evidence. The phone calls were backed up by records as well.

Why would Benoit call Chavo and make statements like that knowing his wife was dead? Also if there was someone else in the house holding them prisoner, then why would he let Benoit even use the phone knowing that he could summon help. The facts just don't add up. The police had more than just the crime scene to work with. Benoit was very busy that weekend on the phone, and that's what might have sunk his ship.
 
It will be mighty embarrassing for many if the case is re-opened, and new evidence were to clear Chris Benoit. The fallout, criticism by the media, and ramifications would be huge. Benoit's parents, and Benoit's children could sue the police or WWE or both.
On the other hand, if Chris Benoit's guilt were firmly established, I don't really see our resident conspiracy theorists being embarrassed or ashamed, not even the ones accusing Kevin Sullivan of a triple-homicide because of that one time they had that feud on TV.

I see them challenging the investigation by grasping at straws while insisting that no one can really know what happened since they weren't there.
 
The thing that got me the most with the Benoit case was the phone call he made to Chavo on Sunday. Chavo told people Benoit called him and told him his wife and son were throwing up blood and he was taking them to the hospital. The medical examiner determined by the state of the decomposition there was no way she was alive on Sunday, she had been dead 48 hours or more. Which means she was killed on Saturday. That is backed up by medical evidence. The phone calls were backed up by records as well.

Why would Benoit call Chavo and make statements like that knowing his wife was dead? Also if there was someone else in the house holding them prisoner, then why would he let Benoit even use the phone knowing that he could summon help. The facts just don't add up. The police had more than just the crime scene to work with. Benoit was very busy that weekend on the phone, and that's what might have sunk his ship.

It's pretty obvious to me why he'd call Chavo and say that. Obviously Kevin Sullivan was holding him at gunpoint and forcing him to say those things while drawing a ritualistic satanic sacrifice pentagram on his living room floor (is that really a thing?) Who else could it have possibly been, other than Vince McMahon who decided he really didn't want to be pronounced dead on Raw the next week, and sorry about your luck Chris, but this was the only way to get out of that. Why would Sullivan let him call in the first place though? Because he was a wrestling booker first and foremost, and dammit shit like that plays well in the cheap seats.

Seriously though, the truth is probably pretty simple here. He's already killed Nancy. I believe Daniel's dead at this point too. He's probably not suicidal yet, and he's trying to think of ways to get away with murder. His brains turned to mush from too many diving headbutts so this is the best he can come up with. His brain's not mushy enough to not realize a little later that this is a stupid plan that's going to see him get locked away forever. He doesn't want to get locked away forever. He can't see a way out of the mess he's in, so he kills himself.
 
You are absolutely right on most of what you say there. No one knows exactly what happened in that house that weekend. Three of the people are dead and can't talk, so the police have to talk for them. And I do believe they know what happened after being there.



How do you know they didn't cover all the bases, how do you know they didn't do their jobs? Was it because they determined that Benoit was the killer? Would you have been happier if this case had remained open forever until maybe one day some sort of evidence came forward that someone else might have done it? And what if that evidence never comes forward, what if they have the killer all along? When should they close a case in your estimation?



I'm pretty sure the Hall of Fame question would be the last question they would ask to be honest. The media would want to know why the killer got away, and why the police missed crucial evidence. Why would the family sue the police or the WWE? The police do the best job they can, and the WWE were the ones who told them about the situation and lead them to the bodies. Unless you are suggesting someone in the WWE killed Benoit and his family.



Yes I have heard of cases where that happens as well, and I feel sorry for the people involved. It has happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again. But what do you suggest the police do, not investigate crimes, not arrest anyone, not put anyone in jail? Should we just let the criminals run wild in case an innocent person gets blamed?



And in most cases that happens, it is very rare that an innocent person suffers. I'm not saying it never happens, but I'm sure everyone from the police to the courts try to make sure they have the right party.

The thing that got me the most with the Benoit case was the phone call he made to Chavo on Sunday. Chavo told people Benoit called him and told him his wife and son were throwing up blood and he was taking them to the hospital. The medical examiner determined by the state of the decomposition there was no way she was alive on Sunday, she had been dead 48 hours or more. Which means she was killed on Saturday. That is backed up by medical evidence. The phone calls were backed up by records as well.

Why would Benoit call Chavo and make statements like that knowing his wife was dead? Also if there was someone else in the house holding them prisoner, then why would he let Benoit even use the phone knowing that he could summon help. The facts just don't add up. The police had more than just the crime scene to work with. Benoit was very busy that weekend on the phone, and that's what might have sunk his ship.

Firstly, I am not saying that the cops bungled it because they said Benoit did it. I actually think that Benoit may be guilty, but unlike many people, I think it was more a case of roid rage, rather than brain deterioration.

But, I would be more confident if they spend more than a couple of days to reach a conclusion. Interviewing family, friends, workmates, how about interviewing Chavo, to create a profile on Benoit, and see if this man was more likely or more unlikely to commit murder. Also, interrogating Kevin Sullivan would have been good. Look, Kevin Sullivan probably had an alibi, but because the police never interrogated him and cleared him of suspicion, the suspicion still remains.

I think a well-conducted murder investigation would have sufficed. I mean, a woman and her child were murdered. Was it domestic violence? drug-related? Was she leaving him and he fought with her and killed her? None of these questions were answered. In fact, we have not got all the facts of the case from the police, I feel, and why not make it public, since it won't affect Benoit's chances of a fair trial. Total transpency would have satisfied me more, and would leave little doubt. Also, even if new evidence emerges, the police could show that they dotted their "I"s and crossed their "T"'s.

The family could sue if it could be proven that the police investigation wasn't across all the facts. Also, WWE could be sued because they have portrayed Benoit as something that he wasn't, and pissed on his legacy.

Also, did you know that Benoit's children from his first marriage asked for WWE to pay out their father's contract, since Benoit did not leave a will. Vince refused, saying that it would be profiting from crime. Well, if Benoit turned out to be innocent, then the children could sue McMahon for the remainder of Benoit's contract money, especially if it can be linked that Benoit's steroid abuse was linked to WWE.

It is rare an innocent person suffers, is that right? Then how about those who get the death penalty, and only afterwards are they cleared? Or those who are jailed, spend many years there, may have been violated by other prisoners in there, being away from their family and their children growing up. Plus their reputation is stuffed, since many people draw their own conclusions regardless. It can affect future employment opportunities, the marriage, (as the wife struggles raising children on her own while people gossip about her and her "criminal" husband.

There was a case one time I heard about on my local news, where two young children were found dead in their bedroom. The mother was accused, but was sick and rushed to hospital.

The police told the media that the woman was helping with their investigations (which most people take as "we think she is guilty"). Even her ex-husband, who she was in a custody battle with, thought that she might have done it.

However, on the third investigation of the house, an eagle-eyed young officer noticed, out of the corner of her eye, that there was something wrong with the heater in the boys' bedroom. They opened it up, and found a gas leak.

It was later determined that there was a gas leak, which went throughout the house through central heating, but was concentrated in the bedroom where the sons died. The gas leak killed the children, and it was revealed that the mother went to hospital suffering from gas poisoning, but because her bedroom was on the other end of the house, it wasn't to the same severity, meaning that she lived.

So, here a woman was accused in the press and by the police of murdering her children, when it was an odorless, colorless, undetectable gas leak.

Or, in my country, Australia, Lindy Chamberlain, who claimed that her infant daughter was killed by a dingo on a Northern Territory camping trip. She was accussed, arrested and jailed, and everyone was convinced it was her. Four years later, new evidence was found and acquitted her. Also, others also claimed that they have seen dingoes attack people and grab babies, but then stopped. It turned out that evidence had been suppressed, because politicians and hoteliers in the NT, many of who financed politicians' election campaigns, were worried that a dingo scare would drive away tourism and ruin their economy, so evidence was suppressed to protect the reputation of Ayres Rock and the Northern Territory Tourism industry. The story is covered in the Meryl Streep Film "Evil Angels".

A third case was a missing mother who they found in the trunk of the family car outside of her house. The thing was, that they had not checked the trunk the first two times they visited after she went missing (which is one of the first places you would check). The car was parked there both times they visited, but wasn't checked until the third visit. One of the times, the police car was parked BEHIND the car where the body was hidden, but the police didn't think to check there.

So, here, not being across everything meant that the cops missed something. How do they know that the Benoits didn't die from a gas leak, which would explain why there was no forced entry. It doesn't answer other questions, and is unlikely, but my point is, that the cost is too large to get it wrong, so the police need to work tirelessly to solve the case, as long as it takes. Unfortunately, the media and society want the killer caught ASAP, and this puts pressure on cops to wrap things up quickly, where something may be missed.
 
These facts

1) Chavo Guerrero – a close friend of Benoit- told WWE magazine that he talked to Chris for while on Friday night on his house phone. About 45 minutes into the conversation, Chris told him that there was somebody knocking at his door and he was going to see who it was. Shortly after Chris answered the door, there was a “scuffle” and then his house phone line went dead. Chris could only be reached on his cell phone about 3 hours later. This is very significant. This explains why there was no forced entry. Chris let the killer or killers in.

2) After Chavo reached Chis on his cell phone, he said that Chris sounded very odd, groggy and tired. He also said that Chris told him “I Love You Chavo” which sounded forced. The WWE also said that when Chris called in and told them that Nancy and Daniel were sick he did not sound like himself. He sounded groggy. Chris then said “I Love You” which they say was out of context because he usually didn’t say this.

3) Chris Benoit’s cell phone is missing. The police cannot find his cell phone or the needles they say Chris used to inject himself with steroids shortly before he died. The police have turned his cell phone off.
4) Chris was not hanging from the weight machine, he was laying on the floor underneath the machine. Another officer said that Benoit was “slumped” against the weight machine.

5) There was a white cloth wrapped around Chris’ neck. If he was so suicidal why would he care if his neck was bruised?

6) The medical examiner says that Chris Benoit died on Saturday. The text messages were sent on Sunday. Chris was already dead so who sent the text messages? It is noted that nobody talked to Chris on Sunday.

7) The steroids found in Chris’ house were not in his body.

8) If Chris’ had murdered his family then why did he need to text people? Think about it. Everybody was dead. Nobody would hear him talking so why text? Calling would have been easier. (I believe the killer text Benoit’s address to get somebody to come to the house to find the bodies)

9) Chris sent Chavo a text message telling him his address. Why would he do this? Chavo already knew were Chris lived. He spent the previous weekend with him.

10) Chris’ body was badly de- composed, about the same as Nancy’s. This shows he died sooner than Sunday.

11) Why would he tie up Nancy to kill her? He was a big guy. He could have just hit her one good time and she would have been out.

12) Ray also told me that the world press is reporting the manner of the deaths wrong. He says that Daniel was shot in his head and Nancy was shot in her chest.

13) Chavo said that the Chris Benoit seemed “worried” about something but he could not get Chris to open up and tell him why he was worried.

14) There was no Bible besides Chris’ body. Why would he place a bible beside Nancy and Daniel and not place one beside his own if he knew he was about to take his own life?

15) There were 10 empty beer cans and an empty body of wine besides Chris’ body. He tested negative for alcohol.

16) The toxicology confirmed that Chris had Hydrocodone (pain killer) Xanex (anti-anxiety drug). I have used both of these. These 2 drugs combined will sedate Chris and make him very sleepy. So he could not fight back.

17) The police originally said that Daniel died on Friday because his body was badly de-composing. This supports my belief that all 3 died on Friday night. The police changed the manner of Daniel’s death 3 times. 1st he died from a garbage bag, 2nd he died from a choke hold, 3rd he was smothered by a pillow. Why would they keep changing?

18) The police kept changing the location of where Nancy’s body was found. 1st she was found in the downstairs family room. 2nd she was found in the upstairs bedroom. 3rd she was found in the house office.

19) Chris’ father said that Chris called him on father’s day and told him that he wished he could spend more time with his family but he had to work. One of Nancy’s friend says that Nancy Loved Chris and she had no plans to leave him.

20) Retired Wrestler Bam Bam Bigalow died 1-19-07. Sherry Martel died 6-15-07. The Benoit family died 6-22-07. Since this family died, 2 other wrestlers have died. (Brian Adams and Johnny Crush in July and August 07) Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and Brian Pillman all died the night before they were set to win title belts. Sherry Martel’s death is even more suspicious to me. Sherry Martel had ties to Nancy Benoit’s ex-husband Kevin Sullivan. The circumstances surrounding her death have not been released.

21) Kevin Sullivan told Chris Benoit that he would kill him. Kevin is currently a high ranking member of a satanic cult. Kevin is also on the WWE Board of Directors. Kevin Sullivan also had motive to kill Daniel Benoit because he was Chris and Nancy’s offspring. Retired wrestler Dusty Roads said that “he danced with the devil” when working with Kevin Sullivan who is known as being Cold-hearted and conniving. The Benoit family was murdered on the 10-year anniversary of Nancy’s divorce from Kevin Sullivan.

22) Nancy Benoit’s death was posted on the internet, 14 hours before her body was found.

23) Weeks before he died, Chris Benoit’s colleagues said that Chris began taking alternate routes to and from work and back to his house. Chris and Nancy believed that somebody was following them. Chris’ friends dismissed his worries as paranoia.

24) The Benoit family was murdered the same week that the WWE had a story line of “Who killed Vince McMahon.”

25) The Wikipedia story that came out a day before the bodies were discovered were traced back to WWE Headquarters.

This is all untrue. I actually did a breakdown of this post in the general Chris Benoit thread. Chavo Guerrero even responded on Twitter to one of these points (someone asked him about) and he said he never said that. Please don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Here is what happened. Chris Benoit had severe brain damage. His brain went insane. He killed his wife and child and then himself. You should listen to Jericho's podcast with Chris Nowinski and Chavo Guerrero. Nowinski talks about why there weren't more signs of this coming and how bad his brain was. Chavo talks about what happened before and after Benoit murdered his family. Both Jericho and Guerrero say Benoit did it.

Chris Benoit cannot and should not be mentioned. Yes, brain damage ultimately was the cause and he would have been found guilty by reason of insanity. But you cannot honor a murderer. Two people are no longer alive due to him and that is more important than anything he did in wrestling.
 
Firstly, I am not saying that the cops bungled it because they said Benoit did it. I actually think that Benoit may be guilty, but unlike many people, I think it was more a case of roid rage, rather than brain deterioration.

Even if it was a case of roid rage or brain deterioration, he is still guilty of a double homicide. The only way that would have helped him, is if he hasn't committed suicide, they would held him in a secure medical facility rather than sending him to prison. But it would still have been a prison of sorts.

But, I would be more confident if they spend more than a couple of days to reach a conclusion. Interviewing family, friends, workmates, how about interviewing Chavo, to create a profile on Benoit, and see if this man was more likely or more unlikely to commit murder. Also, interrogating Kevin Sullivan would have been good. Look, Kevin Sullivan probably had an alibi, but because the police never interrogated him and cleared him of suspicion, the suspicion still remains.

How do you know how much time they took? They waited until the coroner determined the times of death. They did look at Kevin Sullivan and ruled him innocent, he was two states away at the time of the murders and could prove it. The only people that think he did it are the ones who think Benoit wasn't the killer.

I think a well-conducted murder investigation would have sufficed. I mean, a woman and her child were murdered. Was it domestic violence? drug-related? Was she leaving him and he fought with her and killed her? None of these questions were answered. In fact, we have not got all the facts of the case from the police, I feel, and why not make it public, since it won't affect Benoit's chances of a fair trial. Total transpency would have satisfied me more, and would leave little doubt. Also, even if new evidence emerges, the police could show that they dotted their "I"s and crossed their "T"'s.

The family could sue if it could be proven that the police investigation wasn't across all the facts. Also, WWE could be sued because they have portrayed Benoit as something that he wasn't, and pissed on his legacy.

The police can't determine why he did it because the people that can answer those questions are all dead. Nancy Benoit is the only person who could have spoke about domestic violence, drug abuse or any of the other facts you brought up. She is dead and cannot answer any of those. So anything anyone comes up with is speculation at best. So maybe it's better off that they don't put it out there and make it worse for his family that is still alive.

The WWE had a RAW tribute to him on the Monday night after they found out about the deaths. They had no idea that he was a killer, and they didn't portray him as anything other than a valued employee. It was only after the facts became clear, they erased him. They didn't piss all over his so called legacy, he did that himself by murdering two people. It's not the WWE's fault it's his and his alone.

It is rare an innocent person suffers, is that right? Then how about those who get the death penalty, and only afterwards are they cleared? Or those who are jailed, spend many years there, may have been violated by other prisoners in there, being away from their family and their children growing up. Plus their reputation is stuffed, since many people draw their own conclusions regardless. It can affect future employment opportunities, the marriage, (as the wife struggles raising children on her own while people gossip about her and her "criminal" husband.

Yes we have already established that mistakes can happen, have happened, and will happen again. But like I said before, the police, courts and juries take every step to ensure they have the right person. You cannot be afraid to send someone to jail in case you are sending the wrong person.

So, here, not being across everything meant that the cops missed something. How do they know that the Benoits didn't die from a gas leak, which would explain why there was no forced entry. It doesn't answer other questions, and is unlikely, but my point is, that the cost is too large to get it wrong, so the police need to work tirelessly to solve the case, as long as it takes. Unfortunately, the media and society want the killer caught ASAP, and this puts pressure on cops to wrap things up quickly, where something may be missed.

No one put any pressure on the cops to wrap this up quickly. It was a pretty cut and dried case as far as I can see. You have three dead bodies. The coroner determined the time of death of each, no forced entry into the house, so it's pretty clear that the person who died last is the killer. That person was Benoit. Also take into effect the phones calls he made pretending his wife and child were still alive, when evidence showed afterwards they were dead at the time.

A gas leak also doesn't tie people up and strangle them, suffocate a child, and hang someone in their weight room. So I think the gas leak that you're thinking of never happened.

Even his friends who knew and worked with him for years believe he did it. The cops think he did it. So who are you, me or anyone else who have probably never met the guy to say he didn't do it. Because he was one of our favourite wrestlers. Well sometimes good people do bad things, and when they do it erases every good thing they ever did.

He is a double murderer and if you wish to continue to revere him that is up to you. I think he's a scumbag and hope he rots in hell for what he did.
 
No, no, no, you implied that Vince knew that Snuka committed murder. Obviously, he knew that Snuka was involved in a homicide investigation, but that doesn't mean Vince somehow covered the whole thing up. When I said all this stuff has recently come to light, I'm talking about all the new evidence that is just now sufficient enough to charge the guy. He was never charged in a criminal court, and before you say it civil court is not the same thing. Vince may have made himself ignorant to the facts at the time, but as long as Snuka wasn't criminally charged, he didn't have to do anything about it. Were Snuka to be charged, he and Benoit would be on the same level as they should be.

And how the fuck am I spewing bile? Because I'm saying that he's responsible and not Kevin Sullivan?



You can't say that based off just his brain scans. He was coherent enough to know what he was doing, AT LEAST IN SOME SENSE. Otherwise, why would he have drugged his son? Some part of him didn't want Daniel to feel any fear or pain. He was coherent enough to call Chavo and others and leave them their address. He planned this stuff out over three days. It isn't just like he all of the sudden lost his mind, flew into a rage, and shot his family before turning the gun on himself. He was somewhat in control. I mean the guy was wrestling matches 2 weeks before, and nobody noticed anything. Are you telling me that at that exact moment when he decided to kill his family, his brain all of the sudden turned to mush? Sorry, I just don't believe that.



Probably right about the locked away part. They would have pled insanity even if he weren't insane. But we'd still be calling him a monster for murdering his family.



Killing a child makes it "worse" in some peoples eyes because of the innocence of the kid. Daniel was 7. He had his chance at life taken from him. He was in no part responsible for any of the problems that was going on with Benoit and Nancy. But yeah, anyone who commits pre-meditated murder is scum.

Perhaps, PERHAPS, if I were to believe that Benoit really had no idea what he was doing, I could look at this on the same level as you. But again, I don't believe that. Just seems like a fucking excuse for you to continuously tout your (seeming) hero.

You are missing the point on Snuka entirely... There was ALREADY a Civil Judgement against him years ago, that means a Judge has held him responsible for the death and awarded the womans family money which Snuka of course never paid (same as OJ). There have been rumors for years about the level of Vince's involvement and of him helping Snuka "play to his gimmick" with the police, to the extent some police were quoted as saying they "knew he did it, they just couldn't prove it" so it was dropped. Now that has been re-opened by THE GRAND JURY... They don't do that unless they're gonna get a conviction.

Very, very likely untrue that Vince was involved to that level... but not impossible for a guy known to be a shrewd negotiator/manipulator with his entire life on the line in the run up to Wrestlemania I... It's entirely possible he would have protected his business... in no way has "all this suddenly come to light" it's been around for years.

Bile.... your final statement proves it. As a wrestler, Chris Benoit WAS a hero to many, but like nearly all of those people - he is now a damaged hero. The last hours of his life do not remove the impact he had on his fans love of wrestling, they don't erase the matches he had...they just mean it's harder to watch them... Do you never watch Naked Gun again cos OJ is in it and killed someone? Does it take away from his Football stats? No...

You also miss the point on Capacity (I've been at a conference on this very thing for the last 2 days and have Post Concussion Syndrome myself!)...

At best, Benoit had some deterioration in brain function and mental illness... It's not simply a case of "blaming the concussions" or the roids... his diaries showed he was very sick and would have seen him get insanity without debate... but that illness was a symptom rather than a cause and it would have affected his ability to make decisions about his future, his families future and may even have seen him at worst completely lose power of control over his actions.

Trust me, your entire personality, decision making ability and rational thinking can change in a second. I got my second concussion in an accident, the first I was mugged... in the aftermath of it I made "poor decisions" that I would never have made before or might not have done now 8 years into my recovery. I didn't kill anyone or get in trouble... but make no mistake - this is no imaginary excuse for Benoit... it's a real thing and one last bang on his head, even as dumb as getting out of the car could have triggered the mental collapse that led to the deaths. He had hundreds of concussions, I got to life-changing/disabling after 2...

It is entirely possible he DID kill Daniel once he realised what was coming his way, his mental illness and affected judgement could have, as the police believe seen him "mercy kill" Daniel as it was better for him in his own head.

But it's also entirely possible that Chris Benoit "died" that Friday - and whatever shell was left in those last 3 days was not the same person or responsible for their actions in a court of law.

Remember a lot of the post concussion syndrome knowledge came BECAUSE of him... if a similar situation happened today, there would be a lot more to investigate and the concussion angle would be high on the agenda from day one.

The Police wrapped it up quickly cos it all intents, it WAS an open and shut case. Few doubt Benoit was physically responsible for the deaths... what is doubtful is with the level of damage Nowinski's tests found is that he would have had responsibility for his actions. It was a heinous crime and with it all seemingly there for them, it was a quick "win" for the Police.

The Kevin Sullivan stories will never go away, he's never sued anyone to my knowledge and yeah, a lot people he falls out with seem to have problems, but no way would the guy have gotten away with it, so it's a BS theory.

To me the proof in the pudding is the majority of people all said the same thing "This was not the guy that I KNEW..." that means the guy they knew was already gone... The only one who did see something not right, and you could tell it haunted him on the RAW was Regal... he'd noticed something clearly, but either not said anything out of respect or been ignored (another reason why Vince would be so anti-Benoit now, god forbid it was ever found out they'd been warned...) when he raised concerns.

It's not a case of hero-worshipping a murder, it's a case of making sure those who condemn realize that there is more here than just a scumbag murdering his family... there's a very real tragedy in Benoit himself - the med reports were he would likely have died within a year anyway...
 
Even if it was a case of roid rage or brain deterioration, he is still guilty of a double homicide. The only way that would have helped him, is if he hasn't committed suicide, they would held him in a secure medical facility rather than sending him to prison. But it would still have been a prison of sorts.



How do you know how much time they took? They waited until the coroner determined the times of death. They did look at Kevin Sullivan and ruled him innocent, he was two states away at the time of the murders and could prove it. The only people that think he did it are the ones who think Benoit wasn't the killer.



The police can't determine why he did it because the people that can answer those questions are all dead. Nancy Benoit is the only person who could have spoke about domestic violence, drug abuse or any of the other facts you brought up. She is dead and cannot answer any of those. So anything anyone comes up with is speculation at best. So maybe it's better off that they don't put it out there and make it worse for his family that is still alive.

The WWE had a RAW tribute to him on the Monday night after they found out about the deaths. They had no idea that he was a killer, and they didn't portray him as anything other than a valued employee. It was only after the facts became clear, they erased him. They didn't piss all over his so called legacy, he did that himself by murdering two people. It's not the WWE's fault it's his and his alone.



Yes we have already established that mistakes can happen, have happened, and will happen again. But like I said before, the police, courts and juries take every step to ensure they have the right person. You cannot be afraid to send someone to jail in case you are sending the wrong person.



No one put any pressure on the cops to wrap this up quickly. It was a pretty cut and dried case as far as I can see. You have three dead bodies. The coroner determined the time of death of each, no forced entry into the house, so it's pretty clear that the person who died last is the killer. That person was Benoit. Also take into effect the phones calls he made pretending his wife and child were still alive, when evidence showed afterwards they were dead at the time.

A gas leak also doesn't tie people up and strangle them, suffocate a child, and hang someone in their weight room. So I think the gas leak that you're thinking of never happened.

Even his friends who knew and worked with him for years believe he did it. The cops think he did it. So who are you, me or anyone else who have probably never met the guy to say he didn't do it. Because he was one of our favourite wrestlers. Well sometimes good people do bad things, and when they do it erases every good thing they ever did.

He is a double murderer and if you wish to continue to revere him that is up to you. I think he's a scumbag and hope he rots in hell for what he did.


I read somewhere that there was some doubt as to whether Nancy or Daniel died first, and there was legal action pending between the Benoit family and Nancy's family to determine this. This led to the autospies being conducted to determine who died first. It wasn't the police who drove it.

Also, one report in the press said that an officer reported finding the heater in Nancy's room on, and it was a hot day, which would have led to her body deteriorating faster.

Now, if the police had conducted a press conference, where the media could ask all these questions, and they give their answers, it would have sufficed. Who are they trying to protect by keeping it out of the public domain, if the killer (Chris Benoit) is dead and no longer a threat to anyone.

Most times, police don't do this, because the perp is facing trial, or it may put witnesses etc, in danger. But neither is the case here, so why not total transperancy through the press. Tell wrestling fans and the public what they think happened, and let them answer questions. They probably covefred everything, but a press conference at the time would have answered everyone's questions, and left little doubt (well, maybe Johnny Lee Clary would still doubt), but it would make everything make sense more.

Why didn't the cops tell us everything that happened, rather than treat it like any other case, where revealing these things compromises a fair trial and puts witnesses in danger. Benoit is dead, so neither of these are a factor, if they are SO convinced that Chris Benoit is the murderer.
 
I read somewhere that there was some doubt as to whether Nancy or Daniel died first, and there was legal action pending between the Benoit family and Nancy's family to determine this. This led to the autospies being conducted to determine who died first. It wasn't the police who drove it.

Also, one report in the press said that an officer reported finding the heater in Nancy's room on, and it was a hot day, which would have led to her body deteriorating faster.

Now, if the police had conducted a press conference, where the media could ask all these questions, and they give their answers, it would have sufficed. Who are they trying to protect by keeping it out of the public domain, if the killer (Chris Benoit) is dead and no longer a threat to anyone.

Most times, police don't do this, because the perp is facing trial, or it may put witnesses etc, in danger. But neither is the case here, so why not total transperancy through the press. Tell wrestling fans and the public what they think happened, and let them answer questions. They probably covefred everything, but a press conference at the time would have answered everyone's questions, and left little doubt (well, maybe Johnny Lee Clary would still doubt), but it would make everything make sense more.

Why didn't the cops tell us everything that happened, rather than treat it like any other case, where revealing these things compromises a fair trial and puts witnesses in danger. Benoit is dead, so neither of these are a factor, if they are SO convinced that Chris Benoit is the murderer.

And with all seriousness why do you or why does anyone else have to know every single grisly fact about this murder case? There are other people involved here. He has other children, parents and extended family members, so does his wife. Do you think they weren't told, and just maybe the family didn't want all the details made public? The police told the public all they needed to know. Details surrounding the crime and who committed it. That's all as someone who doesn't them any of them personally, like you and me, are entitled too.

Just because Chris Benoit was a WWE superstar, it doesn't mean that we need to know absolutely everything about his death, and what he did that weekend. I know enough already, thank you very much. I feel for the family that is left, and I just wish that all wrestling fans would feel the same way.

You can still enjoy his matches if you want on the Network and in various DVD's, but what happened that weekend years ago, is quite honestly none of our business. He was deemed a murdered because of evidence collected, no press conference was needed, and that's all there is to it.
 
I can understand wwe wanting to distance themselves from Benoit a bit. No matter if you want to admit he did it or say allegedly, the events surrounding his death are strange to say the least so it is understandable. However, wwe is hardly one to talk about morals. While it is a bit different than murder, Vince has admitted to several affairs over the years, HHH started sleeping with the boss's daughter while he was still seeing Chyna, several superstars like Cena and Orton were maried and started sleeping with divas on the road leading to ruined marriages, and let's not forget the number of sexual abuse allegations against guys like Pat Patterson yet wwe has no issue promoting them so their decision to pretty much cut him out of WCW and wwe history entirely is confusing.

My solution is minimize him. Don't promote him or his matches but don't eliminate them either. It is very funny to watch them cut him out of footage for stuff like the Radicalz because it is so obvious they are trying to hide something. In cases like that, just refer to the group and not by individuals and leave him in. Same with matches - you can include his Mania match against HHH and HBK, just don't make it the center of things. His career impacted many others so you need to be able to see those matches, just don't make a bigger deal out of them then you have to. In one way, it is like talking about history and trying to cut out all the bad stuff that happened - the information is out there anyways, no use in trying to ignore/hide it but don't glorify it either. Just present it for what it is and move on.
 
I can understand wwe wanting to distance themselves from Benoit a bit. No matter if you want to admit he did it or say allegedly, the events surrounding his death are strange to say the least so it is understandable. However, wwe is hardly one to talk about morals. While it is a bit different than murder, Vince has admitted to several affairs over the years, HHH started sleeping with the boss's daughter while he was still seeing Chyna, several superstars like Cena and Orton were maried and started sleeping with divas on the road leading to ruined marriages, and let's not forget the number of sexual abuse allegations against guys like Pat Patterson yet wwe has no issue promoting them so their decision to pretty much cut him out of WCW and wwe history entirely is confusing.

My solution is minimize him. Don't promote him or his matches but don't eliminate them either. It is very funny to watch them cut him out of footage for stuff like the Radicalz because it is so obvious they are trying to hide something. In cases like that, just refer to the group and not by individuals and leave him in. Same with matches - you can include his Mania match against HHH and HBK, just don't make it the center of things. His career impacted many others so you need to be able to see those matches, just don't make a bigger deal out of them then you have to. In one way, it is like talking about history and trying to cut out all the bad stuff that happened - the information is out there anyways, no use in trying to ignore/hide it but don't glorify it either. Just present it for what it is and move on.

So you are comparing MURDER to adultery. In one, a human being is no longer alive. In the other, a relationship is ended (in most cases). Murder is not comparable to anything else. It is by far the worst thing a human can do.

Also, Benoit cheated with Nancy (that storyline did turn real).

Sexual abuse ALLEGATIONS. As in, not proven.

They are doing exactly what you say they should. Vince said that Benoit is not being erased, they just won't promote him. Anything that he was in is now not edited on the Network. I have no desire to watch any of his matches (because each one ultimately led his brain to go haywire and do what he did) and I'm glad they don't promote him. But if people want to watch his stuff, WWE isn't stopping you.
 
So you are comparing MURDER to adultery. In one, a human being is no longer alive. In the other, a relationship is ended (in most cases). Murder is not comparable to anything else. It is by far the worst thing a human can do.

Also, Benoit cheated with Nancy (that storyline did turn real).

Sexual abuse ALLEGATIONS. As in, not proven.


Ah yes, denial. Was Benoit ever charged? no, because he is dead so they can't say 100% what happened. Do we all think he killed them and then himself? Yep but much like the sexual abuse, it is not proven in court. You can't have it both ways - Benoit can't be a proven killer and Patterson innocent. And I said they are not in the same league but it goes to a larger point - wwe is making a moral judgement here yet they let so many other things slide. They stand up against bullying yet for years JBL was a locker room bully who they employ today. They talk about respect yet look at how they treat the divas. wwe is hardly a model for morals.

As for what Vince said, that's pure BS. We have seen them re-edit footage so eliminate Benoit from it. Look on youtube - their jump from WCW to WWF was a huge deal yet there are 2 "top 10 debut" videos there where the Radicalz are not even mentioned so it isn't a matter of them not promoting Benoit, they are trying to erase him totally. Yeah you can find his matches on the network but there are now suddenly gaps in wwe history because wwe doesn't want to even admit he worked there.
 
Ah yes, denial. Was Benoit ever charged? no, because he is dead so they can't say 100% what happened. Do we all think he killed them and then himself? Yep but much like the sexual abuse, it is not proven in court. You can't have it both ways - Benoit can't be a proven killer and Patterson innocent. And I said they are not in the same league but it goes to a larger point - wwe is making a moral judgement here yet they let so many other things slide. They stand up against bullying yet for years JBL was a locker room bully who they employ today. They talk about respect yet look at how they treat the divas. wwe is hardly a model for morals.

As for what Vince said, that's pure BS. We have seen them re-edit footage so eliminate Benoit from it. Look on youtube - their jump from WCW to WWF was a huge deal yet there are 2 "top 10 debut" videos there where the Radicalz are not even mentioned so it isn't a matter of them not promoting Benoit, they are trying to erase him totally. Yeah you can find his matches on the network but there are now suddenly gaps in wwe history because wwe doesn't want to even admit he worked there.

Benoit can't be found guilty because he is dead. While true, the police did say he did it. He could easily be tried and found guilty but since he is dead, there is no point. It's like saying Hitler isn't guilty because he is dead. Benoit did it. All evidence points towards it. His father, JR, Austin, Malenko, Jericho, Storm and Guerrero (plus many more) say he did it. Chris Nowinski said that given his brain damage, this isn't an unusual circumstance. Patterson is alive, he can be tried. He isn't because the evidence says not too.

Again, murder is not comparable to anything else. Murder is a bigger moral issue than a grown adult bullying another grown adult. Who was that guy that kicked Miz out of the lockeroom for 6 months? Benoit. But guess what, that bullying is nothing compared to Benoit murdering his child and wife.

He isn't included on their lists because that would be promoting him. They edited stuff to take him out but no longer do.

Say Hitler went to a college that you ran. Hitler got a 4.0 and a picture on the alumni website. Every alumni makes a speech at graduation. Then every year the school plays a recap of all alumni speeches before graduation. Would you keep Hitler up on that website after doing what he did? Would you proudly promote that Hitler graduated from your school? Would you keep him in the recap video? The answer hopefully would be no.
 
I can understand wwe wanting to distance themselves from Benoit a bit. No matter if you want to admit he did it or say allegedly, the events surrounding his death are strange to say the least so it is understandable. However, wwe is hardly one to talk about morals. While it is a bit different than murder, Vince has admitted to several affairs over the years, HHH started sleeping with the boss's daughter while he was still seeing Chyna, several superstars like Cena and Orton were maried and started sleeping with divas on the road leading to ruined marriages, and let's not forget the number of sexual abuse allegations against guys like Pat Patterson yet wwe has no issue promoting them so their decision to pretty much cut him out of WCW and wwe history entirely is confusing.

My solution is minimize him. Don't promote him or his matches but don't eliminate them either. It is very funny to watch them cut him out of footage for stuff like the Radicalz because it is so obvious they are trying to hide something. In cases like that, just refer to the group and not by individuals and leave him in. Same with matches - you can include his Mania match against HHH and HBK, just don't make it the center of things. His career impacted many others so you need to be able to see those matches, just don't make a bigger deal out of them then you have to. In one way, it is like talking about history and trying to cut out all the bad stuff that happened - the information is out there anyways, no use in trying to ignore/hide it but don't glorify it either. Just present it for what it is and move on.

I agree and think that the minimization is the way to go.

Showing Benoit, when necessary, but not highlighting him is probably better than not having his matches at all.

I have a DVD which chronicles every MITB Ladder Match. The WM21 one I watched had Benoit, but when he climbed the ladder or was shown without others around, they cut that, and cut any individual commentary when he was on-screen by himself. But they did show him in the match when there was a bunch of them at one time, and where more than one other person was involved. It seemed weird, but it is better than not having the match on the DVD at all.

Removing him retrospectively is quite silly and impractical. It means that most Raw main events in 2004 wouldn't be on DVD. Will they charge less for the DVD because there is a match missing? I don't think so.

I liked how the "Encyclopedia of WWE" did things. I saw it in a bookstore, and immediately turned to the Benoit section, to see if they left him out (the book is meant to contain every WWE star up that time, who wrestled at least one match). They included him, and listed his titles, but he didn't have a blurb written about him, like the others did. I like this, because it is not ignoring history, but not promoting Benoit either.

The whitewash of Benoit is even more ridiculous when you consider that they have done the same thing to Hogan, which minimizes what Benoit did, because it makes it look like the WWE consider racism as bad as double-murder. Benoit should have been the line in the sand as to what WWE will accept or not. Anything less shouldn't be treated the same.

Hell, Vince didn't acknowledge, or show footage of Randy "Macho Man" Savage for years either, and kept him out of the HoF. The only reason that "Macho Man" is even spoken about in WWE is because he died. Same with Ultimate Warrior. So, you can be whitewashed in WWE if you commit double-murder, use a racist word in a private conversation many years earlier, or just piss off Vince.

One reason for "erasing him from history" is the silly thought that to mention him is to endorse his actions. Anyone with half a brain knows the difference between acknowledging someone's existence and endorsing their behaviour. One doesn't mean the other. Any person who pulls sponsorship or complains to WWE that they put the World Title on a guy who FOUR YEARS LATER killed two people, and expect that WWE should have anticipated that, when, from all reports, the murders were a "surprise" and "out of character", then that person is a moron, and not worth listening to.
 
The whitewash of Benoit is even more ridiculous when you consider that they have done the same thing to Hogan, which minimizes what Benoit did, because it makes it look like the WWE consider racism as bad as double-murder. Benoit should have been the line in the sand as to what WWE will accept or not. Anything less shouldn't be treated the same.

You are a moron. WWE is not a court. WWE does not have defined laws that tell them how to punish someone. They are a business. No one with a brain thinks WWE views what Hogan did as comparable to Benoit.

Hell, Vince didn't acknowledge, or show footage of Randy "Macho Man" Savage for years either, and kept him out of the HoF. The only reason that "Macho Man" is even spoken about in WWE is because he died. Same with Ultimate Warrior. So, you can be whitewashed in WWE if you commit double-murder, use a racist word in a private conversation many years earlier, or just piss off Vince.

Macho Man's brother said he wasn't inducted due to Savage wanting his brother and dad in the HOF. Vince just wanted Savage. His brother even said he went against his brother's wishes and allowed him to be inducted. Savage in his last TNA appearance said he didn't want to be remembered like this. That is probably why he never returned. He was also a very private person.

One reason for "erasing him from history" is the silly thought that to mention him is to endorse his actions. Anyone with half a brain knows the difference between acknowledging someone's existence and endorsing their behavior. One doesn't mean the other. Any person who pulls sponsorship or complains to WWE that they put the World Title on a guy who FOUR YEARS LATER killed two people, and expect that WWE should have anticipated that, when, from all reports, the murders were a "surprise" and "out of character", then that person is a moron, and not worth listening to.

The WWE is a business. Highlighting a murderer is not a good way to keep sponsors. Nor fans.
 
You are a moron. WWE is not a court. WWE does not have defined laws that tell them how to punish someone. They are a business. No one with a brain thinks WWE views what Hogan did as comparable to Benoit.



Macho Man's brother said he wasn't inducted due to Savage wanting his brother and dad in the HOF. Vince just wanted Savage. His brother even said he went against his brother's wishes and allowed him to be inducted. Savage in his last TNA appearance said he didn't want to be remembered like this. That is probably why he never returned. He was also a very private person.



The WWE is a business. Highlighting a murderer is not a good way to keep sponsors. Nor fans.

1) So if someone is erased for double-murder, but then the same thing is done to racists and anyone Vince is angry with, then what other reason will Vince find to cut people from DVDs? I heard that he cut some of Jesse Ventura's commentary because Ventura wanted royalty money for his commentary being on DVD.

I don't want them cutting people or things from DVDs, the Network etc. It is censorship. Imagine if "The Attitude Era" got censored, you would all complain. I am still pissed off that they have changed some wrestlers' entrance music on the Network.

2) Lanny is delusional if he thinks he deserves a HoF spot. Angelo Poffo maybe, Randy Savage definitely, Lanny Poffo definitely not (being a glorified jobber should be another reason to be kept out of the HoF).

3) Any fan or sponsor who thinks showing footage of a guy years before he committed a crime is tantamount to endorsing his murderous actions, is a fool and not worth having being involved in wrestling. Promoting him is one thing, but revisionist history because the truth (that Benoit won the World Title at WMXXX) isn't morally convienient is a stupid reason to walk away, and if you do, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. NANANANA NANANANANA HELL YEAH GOODBYE!

Besides, where was the so-called "moral integrity" of fans, advertisers and sponsors during the "Attitude Era". Controversial, sexual, racist and homophobic storylines didn't seem to bother anyone then, and yet WWE made more money from merchandise and advertising.

Also, let me let you in on a little secret. If a sponsor is making millions from a company they are sponsoring, they won't be so quick to pull their sponsorship. They may withdraw support for a time, when the media make a song-and-dance, but money usually > than morality in the real world. Look around, tragic but true.

Sponsors who threaten to pull out often do that to get a better deal, or because they want out anyway, because they have got a more lucrative deal elsewhere. Why assume sponsors work on morals rather than dollars? Boycotts don't work for long. Sure, the one leading the boycott is usually a fanatic, and will stand their ground, but their hangers-on will start missing it, and secretly want to be part of it again. It isn't their fight, they just went along for the ride.

Here's a demonstration. A sponsor under fire for sponsoring a scandalous person or company, and threatened with boycotts, should have a big sale, or give massive discounts for that week, and see if they really lose business. I bet that business will increase, since everyone wants a discount or bargain, and many will leave their "moral integrity" at the door when it means saving a buck.
 

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