Am I the Only One Who Notices TNA Blatantly Stealing WCW Storylines?

[j.beaner]

What are you saying in that bold there? That EV2.0 was a ripoff of Raven's Flock? You're wrong, EV 2.0 was ECW.. Raven's Flock in WCW was a rehash of Raven's Nest from ECW

While i understand your stand point, as i was skeptical to even add that one to the list, im just saying that they was an influx of ECW guys entering into a company, I.E. Raven & Stevie Richards I.E. Tommy Dreamer, Sabu ECT.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

No, Triple H taking over for Vince is not copying TNA. It was going to happen sooner or later, it's just happening earlier than expected. Vince is still the owner, Triple H is now the guy who is (kayfabe) calling the shot's.

Triple H is probably in line to become the legit Chairman in the future.

It's easy to make a connection between The Network and The Board of Directors. Two faceless, nameless entities that were not introduced in either company before appearing out of nowhere applying huge changes to the on-air product. Firing people, hiring people, that sort of thing.

And Triple H takes over for Vince. Bischoff and Hogan take over for Dixie. Triple H is not the real owner, Vince is behind the scenes. Bischoff and Hogan are not the real owners, Dixie still is. The only difference is the execution. H&B snatched it off of Dixie's hands, HHH did not.

So if I were to act like you I would go ahead and say - WWE is ripping off TNA. It doesn't matter if the execution is different. It doesn't matter that the two situations are MILDLY similiar. WWE is copying TNA and that's that.

WWE is so pathetic, copying a smaller company like TNA.

 

[X]

Dude, you're defending freakin' Nexus. "It got Daniel Bryan over and got heat on Barrett and blah blah". Sure, it got Bryan over to an extent (even though he was too busy slugging it out with Miz more than he was on a rampage against Nexus or with Nexus). You act as if Nexus was actually a success because it put over Bryan and Barret, even though the brit is a big tall nothing right now. What about the other 10 guys that disappeared from the radar? If you'll sing their praises because they kiiiind of sooooort of helped the careers of two people then you should in all interest of fairness barf all over Nexus for failing to properly enhance the careers of everyone else involved in it.

I was only defending the beginning of the Nexus angle, because as anyone who was on these forums at the time this angle was happening can tell you, I thought they totally fucked up the whole angle the moment they had Cena and Team WWE go over the Nexus at Summerslam that year. Trust me man, I was NOT a fan of what Nexus turned into, but when it first first started it was pretty captivating and exciting, but the WWE bungled that one big time. Still, even though the angle didn't really go anywhere after the summer, it still got Barrett over as a heel against Cena and they had a decent feud that fall. After that though I totally agree with you, the Nexus went to shit. I fucking HATED the Corre offshoot and how they made all of those Nexus guys look like the jobbiest bunch of jobbers to ever job. The only good thing to come out of it is Justin Gabriel, who's actually a really talented guy and should get over on his own as a high-flyer.

Fuck why am I even defending Nexus here though? I don't understand why I need to, especially since I just told you how I thought they bungled that angle. I really don't want to make this another WWE vs. TNA thread man.

And don't talk about constant stables one after the other. Nexus, New Nexus, Corre, Straight Edge Society. Sure, they weren't fighting against eachother and not for power, but they're still stables with minimum of four members in them and sometimes more.

Yes, but after Summerslam none of those stables were part of main-event storylines going forward. All they did was job. SES was a totally unique idea for a stable though, so I don't know why you brought that one up, even if it did end in shit as well. None of those stables you just talked about (aside from Nexus in the beginning) were the same as the company-wide stables angles that Russo loves to do in WCW and TNA. When Bischoff and Hogan go out there and talk about how Immortal took over TNA as a company, how can you not see the similarities to the original NWO angle there? It's just Russo doing the same shit OVER and OVER and OVER again.

Do you like New Nexus? Do you like Stale Nexus? Do you like The Corre? Do you like The Straight Edge Society? That's four stables full of talentless hacks right there. Can't say the same about Immortal, Fourtune, MEM or Frontline.

Indeed, most of the members of those TNA stables you just named are quite talented as opposed to some of the hacks that were in the Nexus and Corre (I'm looking at you Heath Slater, David Otunga, and Michael McGillicutty), but that's not what this conversation is about is it? This conversation is about how Russo just keeps re-doing the same shit he's always been doing, not about whether the WWE or TNA have better talent or stables.

If you'll defend Nexus because it helped two people then you should have ZERO problem with Immortal or Fourtune. Nexus was a fail and so were Frontline, Immortal and Fourtune. HOWEVER, Immortal showcased and is showcasing, developing and enhancing the characters of guys such as Bully Ray, Gunner and Abyss. Kazarian shined more than ever as a part of Fourtune. Same goes for Roode and Storm. That's 7 guys who found themselves, polished themselves and became better than before while being a part of their respective stables. Now, how's Husky Harris doing?

Out of all of those guys you just named, the only ones to actually gain some momentum and heat from this stable and angle has been Ray and Kaz. I wouldn't include Gunner because he hasn't established himself as anything (face/heel/whatever) since joining Immortal.

And Husky Harris is doing fine actually, he was injured which is why he was taken off of TV, but he's been rehabbing and is just starting to get in better ring shape now and has been wrestling sporadically for FCW over the last few weeks. Not that Harris is particularly special or good or anything, but they haven't forgotten about him.

All the other guys you named though, none of those guys got elevated by this shit. Abyss is still the same dumb monster he always was (they tried to add to his character by having him read excerpts from the Art of War, but of course, they totally failed on that by interpreting the text incorrectly and not establishing why we should care about Abyss and the Art of War). As for the Fourtune guys, they were already over as fuck and have been for a long time, Beer Money is never going to be hotter than they were last year during their great feud with the MCMG, all Fourtune did was just add another stable to the mix, it didn't elevate those guys. Fuck if anything Fortune actually knocked AJ Styles down a peg. He went from beating Sting clean and being the unquestioned babyface world champion of the company, to being Ric Flair's heel bitch in the midcard fighting guys like Tommy Dreamer and Bully Ray for six months to where he is now.

But I get that the constant power struggles are getting on some people's nerves. That's Russo for ya. At the same time, WWE's writers have been putting out nothing but liquid shit over and over and over again for the past two-three years (aside from the current Punk angle), and they're not any better than Vince Russo in my mind.

Well we'll have to disagree there, because I've found the WWE's product over the last few years to be pretty good, sometimes even brilliant like with this Punk angle or the HBK retirement angle.

Some prefer WWE's writing over TNA's and vica versa. But don't act even for a second like Russo's the worst booker on the planet and WWE's writers are blowing him out of the water. We're talking about the people who incapacitated Truth with a glass of water and tied up Batista to a post with duct tape. That's more Russo than Russo.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here man. I'm trying to be very civil in this conversation because you seem like a pretty likable guy based on the jokes you cracked the other day in the bar room, but I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Russo most certainly is one of the shittiest bookers on the planet from a creative standpoint, as several people (like myself) have explained. Tying someone up with duck tape isn't really Crash TV, but Russo loves to keep using that crash TV concept in TNA currently. Just take last night's show for example, where Sting went from being a new authority figure because of "The Network" to just another wrestler by the end of the night, because it was all just Sting "swerving" us. For what? Why did everyone just drop what they were doing and follow Sting's orders? It's simple plotholes like these that Russo doesn't think of when writing, which leads us to question his abilities.


Man, I'm sorry, but TNA basically is WCW at this point, just on another network. Same personnel, same creative guys, same writers, alot of the same on-screen talent, same promotional and marketing tactics and the same damn problems. They probably would have changed their name to WCW if WWE didn't own the rights to the name, they tried virtually the same thing by getting the NWA involved with them.


Ugh, I don't even know why I'm responding at this point.

 

[j.beaner]

What are you saying in that bold there? That EV2.0 was a ripoff of Raven's Flock? You're wrong, EV 2.0 was ECW.. Raven's Flock in WCW was a rehash of Raven's Nest from ECW

While i understand your stand point, as i was skeptical to even add that one to the list, im just saying that they was an influx of ECW guys entering into a company, I.E. Raven & Stevie Richards I.E. Tommy Dreamer, Sabu ECT.

 

[itssoeasy123]

It's easy to make a connection between The Network and The Board of Directors. Two faceless, nameless entities that were not introduced in either company before appearing out of nowhere applying huge changes to the on-air product. Firing people, hiring people, that sort of thing.

And Triple H takes over for Vince. Bischoff and Hogan take over for Dixie. Triple H is not the real owner, Vince is behind the scenes. Bischoff and Hogan are not the real owners, Dixie still is. The only difference is the execution. H&B snatched it off of Dixie's hands, HHH did not.

So if I were to act like you I would go ahead and say - WWE is ripping off TNA. It doesn't matter if the execution is different. It doesn't matter that the two situations are MILDLY similiar. WWE is copying TNA and that's that.

WWE is so pathetic, copying a smaller company like TNA.

But here's the thing, Triple H was going to take over for the Chairman position sooner or later, they just did it earlier than alot of people expected. I have read from numerous sources that Triple H was in line to be the next Chairman, while Vince still staying as the CEO and in creative and what-not.

Until Triple H start's saying "The Network" is trying to call the shot's and there's a "Network Executive," thn their ripping it off.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Oh look, some bitter fucktard wanting to gain attention with an anti-TNA post... let's see how much fun I'll have with this.

TNA needs to completely cut off Hogan, Bischoff, and Russo's creative input, because they know nothing except for what worked for 3 years in WCW.

A couple of problems here.

1. Your math is off. Russo's single handily responsible for creating all of those "great" Attitude Era gimmicks that people love so damn much.

2. Bischoff made WCW a great deal of money for years.

3. Hogan's been in the business since the 70s and you're telling them to fire him? FIRE Hulk Hogan? Really? Fire the man that revolutionized wrestling not once but multiple times? Are you serious? You must've been riding the short bus to school.

Of course keep them in the company for name recognition, and maybe take input from a business aspect, but they are obviously stuck in 1997 in terms of how the business works.

And the fans who constantly babble on and on about how they want the attitude era or how CM Punk is bringing in a new attitude era aren't stuck in the 90s?

Not to mention, but hasn't DX reunited countless of times in the past 5 years? Aren't they a 90s thing? Would that mean they're stuck in the 90s?

I mean really, everytime a semi big dude comes to the company, they turn heel and join a nWo/Horsemen like stable.

Angle - Main Event Mafia
Booker T - Main Event Mafia
Hardy - Immortal
Anderson - Immortal
Flair - Fortune (this was a good idea, bad execution)

And hasn't Sting always been that dude who goes against the Stable? Maybe with the exception of MEM, but usually he is that guy.

Didn't CM Punk just have two heel stables back to back? Didn't Wade Barrett have to heel stables back to back? Weren't the two biggest faces (Show and Cena) the forefront of both stables' rivalries? So you're going to bash TNA for doing something and praise WWE for copying it months later.

And Crimson? Am I the only one who sees him exactly like Goldberg, even down to the fact that they are using his name from a color hue? Hell, I can even see the WCW Nitro logo on his kneepads.

Big tough guy going on a massive win streak... yeah totally never done before by WWE.

And Hogan even has the fucking nWo theme as his entrance. Bischoff would make more money suing TNA for using his ideas then he would working with them. But he probably is the mind behind them.

Yeah, the same guy who brought wrestling one of its popularity is totally doing a bad thing by bringing back the stuff that FANS constantly rant on and on about reviving, and when he does it, you get mad at him? Let me guess, you got pissed at Obama wanting free health care didn't you?

I can see the same things killing TNA that killed WCW, repetitive angles (having a nWo like stable in existence nonstop since 2008), not creating homegrown stars (there is not one guy who was never in WWE or WCW who has held the title belt), and just overusing shock value.

Monty Brown held the title BEFORE he went to the WWE. AJ Styles and Samoa Joe don't count for being in WWE because they weren't signed, just local jobbers... and now they're house hold names to wrestling fans. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin have also never been to the WWE and they're former tag champions, Gunner and Crimson are being pushed as two beast ass power houses, Abyss is a TNA Grandslam champion and has never been in WWE. Jay Lethal, Eric Young, Homicide, Rosita, Sarita, ODB, Angelina Love, and Madison Rayne were never in WWE and they've all held TNA gold.

James Storm and Robert Roode are probably TNA's best tag team and they've never been in WWE either. Neither has Daniels or Skipper, and Low-Ki was TNA before he went to WWE... he was even one of TNA's original X-Division pioneers.

Where the hell do you get your facts from because you sure as hell need some help.

I mean in 10 years, what's gonna be remembered more? CM Punk's angle or Immortal, with the same storyline we saw 10-15 years ago pitting Sting vs. the nWo for the millionth time?

Right because seeing John Cena fight for the honor of the WWE hasn't been done before right? Not by him, not by The Rock, not by anyone... right? Right?

That's what I thought, sit there behind your computer and keep quiet.

Am I the only one who notices them blatantly reusing WCW Storylines?

Dude, it's wrestling. They repeat storylines all the time. For crying out loud, Michael Cole is running the same fucking storyline JR did when he first replaced Vince on commentary. CM Punk is doing an escalated version of Chris Jericho. Evolution was Four Horsemen revisited and it turned out great... did it not?

We all see the storylines being repeated, but unlike you, we're smart enough to not let it bother us and just watch and see how it goes.

 

[GameOver]

How many years did it take you to realise TNA is just WCW without the Ted Turner cash flow

 

[HUFMJCMaverick9]

i love how everyone is so quick to bash on TNA lol i mean really its pointless i did it earlier and hell i'll still do it if i feel like it but this is fucking stupid

stealing? no. A.stealing would mean they stole from someone else, they stole from themselves.
B.lol every single storyline that has even been written has been used at one time or another
C.go back to the WWE threads...i'll see you there when the TNA marks bitch at me

but in all seriousness if you dont like the product or think they're stealing then just dont watch it! although they did steal stings current gimmick but if he didnt play it so good it would be total shit.

and lastly for all you TNA marks i dont know how you do it with all the WWE marks bitching non fucking stop about the product...WHEN THEY GO RIGHT BACK AND BITCH ABOUT THE WWE PRODUCT

 

[KoC417]

Oh look, some bitter fucktard wanting to gain attention with an anti-TNA post... let's see how much fun I'll have with this.



A couple of problems here.

1. Your math is off. Russo's single handily responsible for creating all of those "great" Attitude Era gimmicks that people love so damn much.

Actually..to be fair it wasn't Vince Russo who was alone responsible for the Attitude Era gimmicks. It was a combination of people including VINCE MCMAHON! Vince Russo had to channel his ideas thru VINCE MCMAHON and get approval as Vince didn't want just ANYTHING being thrown across the air. Contrary to when Russo was in WCW and given TOTAL creative control. We ALL Know how that went.
Maybe you should do some research before making such a ridiculous claim that Russo was single handily responsible for all those "great" Attitude Era Gimmicks...

 

[Dizzy]

It doesn't matter if Russo created the great Attitude Era gimmicks or not. He still created the X-Division concept, he created Ultimate X, he created Lethal LockDown, created the Six Sided Ring. He created PLENTY when TNA started up.

That is why Dixie Carter never fires him, Jeff Jarrett never hired someone better. He is the reason "da real tna where da x-division made dem!" HE created the TNA you all marks want. So, if your going to post "Fire Russo" do your research first.

 

[retoocs]

holy lets just keep ripping up impact for everything they do if u dont like impact then dont watch, liek it seems the only reson why most ppl watch is to complain about everything they

 

[ABMorales787]

But here's the thing, Triple H was going to take over for the Chairman position sooner or later, they just did it earlier than alot of people expected. I have read from numerous sources that Triple H was in line to be the next Chairman, while Vince still staying as the CEO and in creative and what-not.

Until Triple H start's saying "The Network" is trying to call the shot's and there's a "Network Executive," thn their ripping it off.

Yeah. Or we can slap together a pair of sassy heel Divas and make them think of themselves as being better looking than all other Divas in the roster. Or we could go with a generic monster heel who goes on a massive unbeaten streak until he's beaten by the top dog never to be relevant again.

Stop kidding yourselves. Pro wrestling is a pool recycled ideas. The stable, the foreigner, the power-struggle, the hidden figure, the swerve, the streak, it's all old.

Streaks:

• Umaga
  
• Samoa Joe
  
• Goldberg
  
• The Undertaker
  
• Bobby Lashley
  
• Mr. Kennedy
  
• Kurt Angle
  
• ...and so on.

The Stable:

• The Four Horsemen
  
• D-X
  
• Nation Of Domination
  
• NWO
  
• Evolution
  
• Planet Jarrett
  
• MEM
  
• Fortune
  
• Immortal
  
• Nexus/New Nexus/The Corre
  
• The Legacy
  
• ...and so freakin' on.

It's all recycled. Get the fuck over it. If you like it, swell. If you don't, shame. Many feel TNA resemble's WCW. Because they have Sting, Hogan, Bischoff and Flair. All I can if it is, it's a fuck of a lot better. Along those all-time greats, we get AJ Styles, Daniels, Crimson, Mr. Anderson, Abyss and a slew of others of today's generation. Of which actually get a chance to shine rather than drown in the political world that plagued WCW. If it were a WCW look-a-like, I really doubt that sounds so bad given the lack of politics and AOL being nowhere in sight. But yeah, bitch away.

 

[j.beaner]

A couple of problems here.

1. Your math is off. Russo's single handily responsible for creating all of those "great" Attitude Era gimmicks that people love so damn much.

2. Bischoff made WCW a great deal of money for years.

3. Hogan's been in the business since the 70s and you're telling them to fire him? FIRE Hulk Hogan? Really? Fire the man that revolutionized wrestling not once but multiple times? Are you serious? You must've been riding the short bus to school.

Really, your still drinking Russo's Cool Aid, He didnt single handedly make anyone, he road the co-tails of someone who knew what he was doing, and that mans name was Vince McMahon. Notice how when Russo came to WCW how the names he tried to get over had a tough time, IE look at Jeff Jarretts pitiful run as champion. i mean im a fan of Jeffs but the reigns had no credibility. Russo would like to have you believe that he was the brains behind the action, but if you listen to anybody like Jim Cornette, Jim Ross, JBL, Roddy Piper, Kevin Nash just to name a few, they will tell you what a pile he is infact i'll get you a Jim Cornette Rant on Russo to illustrate my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ande1DUyFc

Next Eric Bischoff, to quote Bobby Heenan; "just a used car salesmen" Now i cannot reject the success that Bischoff had from '95-'98. But what did Bischoff do? he used superstars that Vince (McMahon) Made (Savage, Hogan, Piper, Curt Hennig, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash) or previous WCW employees had set up Such as Flair, Sting, Steiner Brothers, Lex Luger, Arn Andrson. Bischoff was at the right place at the right time, had some good ideas, but it spun out and now he doesnt know anymore than what he accomplished from '95-'98

Hogan, biggest star in the history in the buisness, but once again you gotta know when to step out of the lime light. Hogan wrestled in the '70's made it big in the '80's went in a different direction in the '90's and retired in the '00's. now how many back surgeries has hogan had, is this really what people want, they arent getting good marketing out of hogan, if utilized properly he could be but TNA Doesnt have a marketing machine like the E does. Just my preference i'd rather watch a match with Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards, because both are athletic, they're young they're hungary. Which is what i believe this business should be about. Just think about it for a sec Total Non-Stop Action Wrestling-even in hogans prime he wasnt that great of an athlete, just the opposite of that nowadays.

And the fans who constantly babble on and on about how they want the attitude era or how CM Punk is bringing in a new attitude era aren't stuck in the 90s?

Not to mention, but hasn't DX reunited countless of times in the past 5 years? Aren't they a 90s thing? Would that mean they're stuck in the 90s?

Well the attitude era to me is overrated but i think what people want is the unpredictability some freshness and some great delivery which CM Punk gives us. and he gives it to us after an era of stagnant programing to be quite honest ('07-'09) followed up by the Youth movement, none of the new generation can deliver like that, thats what makes it special. its not like Steve Austins coming back or anything. and now you wanna call out DX, DX was hot again because HHH and HBK could still go, they enhanced DX, and made it interesting fueds that we were emotionally invested in with teams like Rated RKO, Legacy, JeriShow. WWE has the template to get people invested.
so no they're not stuck in the '90's because they have put time and money into new stars like CM Punk, Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Randy Orton. its fresh and yet at the same time its familiar.

Big tough guy going on a massive win streak... yeah totally never done before by WWE.

let me ask when was the last time Crimson had an interview, they had goldberg never talk to make the character a silent ass-kicker. you look at the WWEs undefeated guys, they had character Undertaker-hes the deadman, Lesnar-he was the young punk with Heyman, Batista-Evolutions Animal.
Crimson and Goldberg just wrestle and dont lose, goldberg caught on, will Crimson time will only tell.

 

[bullsgo]

It's easy to make a connection between The Network and The Board of Directors. Two faceless, nameless entities that were not introduced in either company before appearing out of nowhere applying huge changes to the on-air product. Firing people, hiring people, that sort of thing.

I recall ECW playing the network card angle back during their TNN days.Also there was a network executive character on smackdown briefly. What about Jim Herd? This is not exactly groundbreaking.

And Triple H takes over for Vince. Bischoff and Hogan take over for Dixie. Triple H is not the real owner, Vince is behind the scenes. Bischoff and Hogan are not the real owners, Dixie still is. The only difference is the execution. H&B snatched it off of Dixie's hands, HHH did not.

In storytelling, the small details make all the difference. Every story has been told. The best we can do is tell them differently.

The TNA angle was the transfer of power(DC to H&E) due to trickery, deception and blatant fraud, whereas the WWE's transfer (VKM to HHH) was a legal, by the book changing of the guard,which happens everyday in corporate America. There was no deception or Shakespearean trickery going on. Infact,the WWE storyline played out like a reality TV moment as opposed to an over the top wrestling storyline. The two angles couldn't be more different.

 

[krazyd]

to put very simply no ur not the only one vince russo is the head writer in tna...as well as the head writer of wcw importal is just a terrible reincarnation of the nwo except its going no where....they need to get rid of this guy and do something new!

 

[Trill Co$by]

Actually..to be fair it wasn't Vince Russo who was alone responsible for the Attitude Era gimmicks. It was a combination of people including VINCE MCMAHON! Vince Russo had to channel his ideas thru VINCE MCMAHON and get approval as Vince didn't want just ANYTHING being thrown across the air. Contrary to when Russo was in WCW and given TOTAL creative control. We ALL Know how that went.
Maybe you should do some research before making such a ridiculous claim that Russo was single handily responsible for all those "great" Attitude Era Gimmicks...

As it is with every writer in every field of televised entertainment, there is a higher up that unfortunately revitalizes writings. And at the end of WCW, Russo wasn't the only man in charge, don't be fooled. Bischoff and Nash played just a big a part as the destruction of WCW as the supposed Russo did.

Russo attempted to actually revive the WCW and build new talent when he came in. Or do you forget that he actually started to push the "New Blood" over the veterans like Hogan, Flair, and Hart? But for every good Russo tried to do, there was 10x worth of shit that Hogan, Bischoff, and Nash had put in his way. Russo's a booking genius, and anyone who thinks otherwise is ******ed.

---

It doesn't matter if Russo created the great Attitude Era gimmicks or not. He still created the X-Division concept, he created Ultimate X, he created Lethal LockDown, created the Six Sided Ring. He created PLENTY when TNA started up.

That is why Dixie Carter never fires him, Jeff Jarrett never hired someone better. He is the reason "da real tna where da x-division made dem!" HE created the TNA you all marks want. So, if your going to post "Fire Russo" do your research first.

FACT!

 

[bullsgo]

holy lets just keep ripping up impact for everything they do if u dont like impact then dont watch, liek it seems the only reson why most ppl watch is to complain about everything they

I don't mind people critiquing the show. That's what the boards are for. My biggest gripe is with the people who complain about the criticism. If so many people are either complaining or ignoring the product then surely there's a problem with the said product. Most business owners would take notice and make the proper adjustments.

The Fanboys really take the energy out of the board with their constant ridiculing and disingenuous arguments.

Furthermore, they can't comprehend that the board isn't just for the people who love everything about IMPACT.

Fanboys, it's not your job to defend TNA's honor.

The impact fanboys seem to ridicule naysayers, defend TNA at all cost, and whine that TNA is simply misunderstood. They have an obvious case of insecurity. Clearly the product isn't operating at its full potential. People are simply pointing out the obvious.

 

[bullsgo]

Russo's a booking genius, and anyone who thinks otherwise is ******ed.

Russo's a booking genuis only if you ignore VKM's role in WWE creative. Russo fans seem to quickly forget that VKM served as his filter/editor.

Russo's work in WCW was awful and his TNA effort is mediocre and repetitive to say the least. Without VKM to shape and mold his ideas and great talents (Austin, Rock, etc) to embody and execute, he's nothing.

The majority of legends, including Flair, Hogan, Funk, Race, Piper, and Hart had very little positive to say about Russo. I suppose they're all ******ed.

I do not believe that Russo killed WCW by his lonesome.

However, he was definitely one of the conspirators.

 

[terrylee]

And not creating home grown stars? AJ Styles, Alex Shelley, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Matt Morgan, The Pope, Sabin, Storm, Roode, Aries, Senshi, Jesse Neal, Crimson, Gunner, Abyss, Amazing Red, Bully Ray, EY, Kazarian, the list goes on and on and on. All of those, including Bully Ray can be considered home grown. TNA made them their own just like WWF made Stone Cold their own, for instance. They're not branded for life with the WWE logo on their foreheads, you know.

Firstly, Zion, you're a huge TNA mark, aren't you? Jeez, you sound as if someone insulted your mother.

Secondly, I'm not going to bother rebutting most of your points since you'll just whine some more. But I want to highlight this post you made. Of the people you've named, the only true "stars" are AJ Styles and... Um, no one else, really. Don't get me wrong, I love Austin Aries and Samoa Joe, but your definition of home grown seems to fluctuate. What exactly do you mean? If you're speaking about "home grown", then that's not the case with pretty much every person you've named here. Styles, Joe, Daniels, Aries and others were stars on the Indy Scene before getting on TNA. They didn't go through some TNA farm system or anything. And really? Matt Morgan a star? THE POPE? I mean THE POPE? Bully Ray?? Jesus Christ. You're just naming any TNA "main eventer", aren't you? Those aren't stars. You mention "The Pope" to a kid, they'll probably think of that guy that lives in the Vatican and wears a funny hat. You mention "John Cena" to a kid, and they'll know who that is. Why? Because he's an actual star (as much as I dislike him). So we've got this debate as to what a "homegrown" star is, and if they're even considered stars. Sure, in the TNA hemisphere, maybe, but that's all.

 

[Gore Illa]

Oh look, some bitter fucktard wanting to gain attention with an anti-TNA post... let's see how much fun I'll have with this.

Oh look, some TNA mark who makes assumptions and is a douchebag for really no reason...let's see how much fun I'll have with this.

A couple of problems here.

1. Your math is off. Russo's single handily responsible for creating all of those "great" Attitude Era gimmicks that people love so damn much.

Vince McMahon was his filter. Besides I was more referring to Hogan and Bischoff.

2. Bischoff made WCW a great deal of money for years.

Like I said, for 3 years, WCW was on top from about 95/96-98/99.

3. Hogan's been in the business since the 70s and you're telling them to fire him? FIRE Hulk Hogan? Really? Fire the man that revolutionized wrestling not once but multiple times? Are you serious? You must've been riding the short bus to school.

Can you not fucking read bro? No I didn't say fire him, I said for them to stop letting him have creative input. Of course keep him on the roster, for them to say "we have Hulk Hogan". Hogan was never really a creative mastermind. He either had Vince or Bischoff to push him, and in WCW most of the success of that tandem came from his name value that he established with Vince behind him.

And the fans who constantly babble on and on about how they want the attitude era or how CM Punk is bringing in a new attitude era aren't stuck in the 90s?

1. What does that have to do with me

2. CM Punk kind of has brought in a new era, he now has more input and a louder backstage voice due to his value as the biggest star in wrestling now, which means guys like Ryder get screen time. Meaning he has input on storylines. See, unlike your beloved TNA, changes are actually happening. Guys like Edge and Batista and Jericho are gone, and guys like Ziggler, Del Rio, Miz, Kingston, Sheamus, etc. are stepping up. Unlike TNA which is running the same tired ass Angle vs. Sting feud we have already seen. Angle and Sting are like the Taker and Michaels of TNA. Notice how WWE never would make HBK and Taker feud for the belt. That's because they legitimize their younger talent.

Not to mention, but hasn't DX reunited countless of times in the past 5 years? Aren't they a 90s thing? Would that mean they're stuck in the 90s?

Countless? I think they reunited all of 3 times. The first time in 06, it made for good TV, their feud with the McMahons. Then after that, they were a casual tag team, and occasionally funny. But the thing is, they don't keep bringing DX back under a different name. I've watched TNA on and off since 07 and as long as I can remember watching, there's been an nWo like stable.

And their runs in the 2000s, resembled nothing of their heel runs in the 90s.

Didn't CM Punk just have two heel stables back to back? Didn't Wade Barrett have to heel stables back to back? Weren't the two biggest faces (Show and Cena) the forefront of both stables' rivalries? So you're going to bash TNA for doing something and praise WWE for copying it months later.

Nexus was the only one that resembled a former storyline. SES was a fresh idea, and honestly I'm surprised they didn't do the Straight Edge Savior thing sooner.

Tying CM Punk to Nexus was probably a last minute decision because they had nothing else for the leftovers of Nexus, and it legitimized Nexus.

Barrett was the perfect choice for Nexus. And he led Corre, because again, it gave them something to do besides be released.

Big tough guy going on a massive win streak... yeah totally never done before by WWE.

You got me on this, but I'm just saying. TNA is shameless with the copying. I know Goldberg is Bill's last name, which adds to my point of TNA shamelessly copying/rehashing (They could have named him anything other than a color, not that I have a particular problem with it, but it shows that they were blatantly copying Goldberg).

Yeah, the same guy who brought wrestling one of its popularity is totally doing a bad thing by bringing back the stuff that FANS constantly rant on and on about reviving, and when he does it, you get mad at him? Let me guess, you got pissed at Obama wanting free health care didn't you?

Lol who rants about reviving nWo? Unlike Rock and Austin and DX who the fans NEVER got tired of (and all of them left because of wanting to leave/injury, not being forced to end like nWo), fans got so tired of nWo that it was actually apart of the downfall of WCW. It was the same shit. Nobody was asking for a nWo revival. Don't know what Obama has to do with this, but I'm actually in favor of the health care bill.

Monty Brown held the title BEFORE he went to the WWE. AJ Styles and Samoa Joe don't count for being in WWE because they weren't signed, just local jobbers... and now they're house hold names to wrestling fans. Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin have also never been to the WWE and they're former tag champions, Gunner and Crimson are being pushed as two beast ass power houses, Abyss is a TNA Grandslam champion and has never been in WWE. Jay Lethal, Eric Young, Homicide, Rosita, Sarita, ODB, Angelina Love, and Madison Rayne were never in WWE and they've all held TNA gold.

James Storm and Robert Roode are probably TNA's best tag team and they've never been in WWE either. Neither has Daniels or Skipper, and Low-Ki was TNA before he went to WWE... he was even one of TNA's original X-Division pioneers.

Where the hell do you get your facts from because you sure as hell need some help.

Obviously I fucking meant the World Title belt. Do you really think I went through every title's history in TNA, all to come u-

Nevermind. Just know I was referring to the World Title belt, in which Samoa Joe and AJ Styles I guess could be counted as homegrown in the aspect that they gained fame in TNA, but they still had minor stints in WWE before that.

Right because seeing John Cena fight for the honor of the WWE hasn't been done before right? Not by him, not by The Rock, not by anyone... right? Right?

But that's the thing, a superstar doing promos like Punk hasn't been done before. In fact, before Punk's promo, this match was just another Cena vs. Heel match. Cena would face him in Chicago with a hostile crowd, win, get booed, and either ADR would have cashed in that or the next night and we would be seeing ADR vs. Cena at SS.

Punk's promo made this feud a big deal. I doubt we would have the title unification, or if he would have even signed an extension, if he didn't raise his stock with the promo.

This isn't about "WWE's honor". This feud is only relevant because of Punk's involvement.

That's what I thought, sit there behind your computer and keep quiet.

Ironically, I wasn't even gonna respond to anyone in this thread until this exact comment.

Dude, it's wrestling. They repeat storylines all the time. For crying out loud, Michael Cole is running the same fucking storyline JR did when he first replaced Vince on commentary. CM Punk is doing an escalated version of Chris Jericho. Evolution was Four Horsemen revisited and it turned out great... did it not?

But Michael Cole is hilarious on commentary, CM Punk has rejuvenated the business (to the point of your beloved TNA trying to capitalize with footage they probably would have never looked at if it wasn't for his recent run), and Evolution made two main eventers, made Flair relevant again, and made HHH look stronger. None of the nWo rehashes have done that for TNA.

We all see the storylines being repeated, but unlike you, we're smart enough to not let it bother us and just watch and see how it goes.

No, unlike me, you are so desperate to find an alternative to WWE, and TNA is easy to flock to, considering ROH is a completely different style and can't be found on TV as easily as TNA.

I'll leave you with this, the fact that Angle and Sting are still main eventers after all these years in TNA says alot. TNA has no John Cena or Randy Orton or Batista or Miz that they turned into a superstar from beginning to present.

What would draw more, Cena vs. Orton or Styles vs. Joe?

 

[nwasyko]

this whole thread is ******ed... everyone has there opinions, i watch both shows, tna is terrible with inconsistencies, they contantly switch people between baby and heel, sometimes for no reason at all, all that and everything revolves around groups, but they have good wrestlers, some great, wwe has a pretty stacked talent roster, however, they dumb shit down, always have and always will, they have two or three main storylines and overthink shit, both companies have flaws, both companies have strengths, the main thing is, the wwe will always win, people can give excuses why or why they think not, but it doesnt really matter, because vince is a millionaire and all of you are sitting behind a keyboard stroking your dicks and arguing with eacother, GROW UP!

 

[He's Phenomenal]

I wouldn't say you're the only one who makes this crap up. It seems to be a pretty regular occurrence on here.

You say Bischoff, Hogan and Russo are stuck in 1997, so what's the problem? That's when wrestling was at its best. That's when wrestling was engrossing and interesting. That's when wrestling had real stars. That's when it wasn't embarrassing to admit you watched wrestling. What's wrong with Bischoff, Hogan and Russo trying to bring those times back? They're only doing it for us fans, be grateful!

Sting is not the only one going up against Immortal. Pretty much everyone in TNA is against them. Kurt Angle, Fourtune and the entire X-Division spring to mind.

Crimson is the same as Goldberg? Now I'm starting to wonder if you even watch TNA. Or perhaps you didn't watch WCW? Goldberg used to destroy people in a matter of minutes. How was Crimsons match with Bully Ray or any of his matches in TNA anything like that?

Hulk Hogan is too big a star and legend to start changing his character now. Of course he has the same sort of music he had in other companies. He's Hulk freaking Hogan! He's the most recognizable guy the business has ever produced. You want people to know its him when the music plays out. Hence why you use the music the fans know.

Yea because TNA really looks like it's in trouble. A wrestling company on it's way out always starts filming on the road and signing new talent just before they go bust.

As already mentioned AJ Styles was World Champion for a good while. And if you're dumb enough to think he doesn't count , then I pity you.

10 years from now I will remember the Immortal angle because I've sat there and watched it. I've not seen any of the CM Punk angle so clearly I won't remember that.

 

[Wonder]

LOL, reading trough this thread i remembered Abyss is a TNA Grandslam champion.

Jeez.

Anyway, about this thread, i can't say much about it, because like it was said here before, much stables/storylines were done before , so it's natural that they rewash them in some way. Although, i do have to admit that there are a lot of similarities to WCW stables and more in TNA currently.

 

[DeathClutch]

TNA/WCW have similarities that is a given considering who is booking the shows and wrestling angles/concepts are re-used, re-packaged, re-vamped and re-amp'd. The Attitude era broke a lot of ground because they went racy, extreme and didn't mind pushing buttons so they had more scope what they could and couldn't do, now a days their more inclined to sticking to guide lines not venturing to much outside of them.

TNA can use stables and rehash storylines that is their right, who's to say they don't find that ONE storyline that gets wrestling fans talking? that their WWE friends tune in to TNA and go holy shit...???

WWE messes up more storylines than they actually succeed with in my opinion, Nexus for example had this bigger plan.. that NEVER became public knowledge then the stable fizzled, poor showing by WWE.

Crimson = Goldberg.. I can see similarities but who cares?
IF Crimson is the guy to kick TNA in the nads and take the ball and run with it then awesome, just don't job the guy out in a meaningless fashion or to someone like Hogan, Flair or Sting. Goldberg was HOT in 1998 so if that storyline can be replicated now with 2011's spin on it than why not??

I'm not an avid follower of TNA but give them credit where it's due, their roster is BETTER than ECW's ever was but I agree TNA needs more fresh precepectives on booking, maybe do something WWE couldn't do and hire fans to give their 2 cents and see if TNA Brass like the idea, if they do maybe get the fan onside and help with the angle, this way it makes them look fan friendly and allows fans to get their voice over to some degree and you, me, TNA don't know but someone out their might have that one angle idea that kicks the business back into the hot period we enjoyed in the 90s/00s.

 

[Corpse_Machine]

I completely agree that the TNA storylines are carbon copies of WCW stories, and even complete rip offs of recent WWE storylines with the big undertaker return only to be taken for stings return to take the title from a high hardy boy. And i agree that Russo should maybe step down if it is him personally that is reusing these stories over and over again.

Maybe we just need to realise that TNA will never be the MONSTER that WWE is no matter how many massive old has beens names they use, and stop worrying about it.

Just sit back and enjoy the show bub. Dont be that guy...