Zack Ryder intentionally left off of RAW as a rib?

[Big Nick Dudley]

I guess it's someone every year. Everyone was clamoring for Morrison last year and it's Ryder this year.

And also Christian for both of those years up until present.

Big, huge, massive difference between Morrison, Christian and Zack Ryder. Morrison and Christian have proven themselves worthy. Both guys were consistent mid-card players, had great matches, etc. Ryder has proven absolutely nothing. Amazing how little this means to his broskis.

 

[D-Man]

Big, huge, massive difference between Morrison, Christian and Zack Ryder. Morrison and Christian have proven themselves worthy. Both guys were consistent mid-card players, had great matches, etc. Ryder has proven absolutely nothing. Amazing how little this means to his broskis.

It doesn't matter who's better than who. The IWC just latches themselves onto someone and don't stop until they're pushed.

Being that there is a big difference between Christian, Morrison, and Ryder further proves the IWC's inconsistency for being able to choose formidable players for the title picture.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

It doesn't matter who's better than who. The IWC just latches themselves onto someone and don't stop until they're pushed.

Being that there is a big difference between Christian, Morrison, and Ryder further proves the IWC's inconsistency for being able to choose formidable players for the title picture.

It matters, somewhat. Morrison and Christian were already upper-mid carders. Solid wrestlers, who had put on good-to-great matches. I think that's what annoys me about this Ryder bullshit more than anything else. He hasn't done a goddamn thing to deserve a push. Creating Youtube videos is a great way to get your name out there, but it's probably going to piss of the boss, and rightfully so.

 

[Nate DaMac]

You guys are backtracking. We've already established that no sane person wants Ryder to get some kind of monster push. We're not clamoring for a title reign, we want him to get a chance to be on TV. Certainly he's done enough to do that.

 

[D-Man]

You guys are backtracking. We've already established that no sane person wants Ryder to get some kind of monster push. We're not clamoring for a title reign, we want him to get a chance to be on TV. Certainly he's done enough to do that.

Hate to say it but I think you're the one backtracking. This started when I answered your same claim with this:

Yeah but once they smell blood in the water they won't stop until he's a world fucking champion. That's why guys like Eric Bischoff say that the 10%-ers don't know jack shit about the business... and he's right.

 

[Daniel]

How can people still think that Ryder has somehow pissed Vince McMahon off? Seriously. Ryder advertised his show on Raw. He had his fucking Internet Championship. If you can't see that this is evidence of McMahon not minding what Ryder is doing, there's no hope for you.

Also, let's get rid of the idea that Zack Ryder is an egoist who is demanding to be pushed. He wants to get pushed, and he's doing something about it. The interview that I saw posted in this thread shows that he's humble and that he just wants that chance. Just like any good wrestler should want.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

If he were that high on McMahon's list, I doubt this elaborate prank would've taken place. Not saying Vince should have done it, but, if Ryder can't make the show, in NY, I don't see him being someone Vince gives a shit about.

 

[TSG]

This thread took a serious left turn. Everyone needs to remember that it's not about whether Ryder deserves a spot on television or not. It's about the backlash he received for things he said in his self-made videos.

Yes, but I'm willing to debate both.

Here's my take... Although I feel that any wrestler who goes out of their way and can think outside of the box enough to get their character over, we all know that you must tread lightly in this business. It's not wise to publicly express your disdain for the WWE's product. Ryder's videos were masterful... except for the parts where he mentioned the WWE "missing the boat" with him and all of that jazz. He could have let the videos follow their core formula without making those comments. This is what got him in (supposed) trouble.

I completely agree. I understand how Vince may have taken those comments offensive. I probably wouldn't have found them as offensive if I were in his position, but he's running a million-dollar company so I guess that's why.

The funny thing is that DiBiase and Ryder have very similar careers so far. Both men came in and were thrown directly into tag team championships and connections with the top heel on their respective programs. Or do all of you seem to forget when Ryder was an Edgehead? Since then, both DiBiase and Ryder have been stuck in limbo. Whether it be Ryder winning on Superstars or DiBiase getting buried on Raw, how can you say one is better than the other?

Because Ryder has shown better in-ring ability on Superstars and better mic work on ECW, Superstars, and his YouTube show. He's just as good in technical wrestling, understands ring psychology better, puts on more entertaining matches, can work a crowd in match and on the mic better, he is more charismatic, and he is probably more over from his YouTube show than DiBiase is from being on TV. How is he not better?

Finally... somebody gets my point 100%.

I have gotten your point the whole time. I just don't think (if it was even necessary) Vince's actions were justifiable. There is no single reason why Vince had to go as overboard as he did, looking at the situation. At all. What he did is just about one of the worst treatments of any employee in the business I've heard in forever. Ryder might have messed up, but there was no justifiable reason why Vince had to do what he did. A week suspension probably would've been better than this on Ryder's end. I don't think you understand just how bad it really is, what Vince did.

But this still wouldn't make any of the Ryder marks happy. Nothing is ever good enough unless they win a world title. Let's face it. So this point is bullshit to me.

FOR GODS SAKES HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!! Nobody wants him to pop up and pin John Cena. We want him to start out with a small video package or promo one week. Maybe a couple squash matches, put him against R-Truth, or John Morrison. Then he starts picking up a win or two against lower-card talent. People start taking him seriously, he acts more serious in promos. Eventually he attacks a mid-card star and shows his serious side. Small push has began.

And also Christian for both of those years up until present. The internet won't stop clamoring for someone for a world title. They have no idea that if EVERYONE they were fanboys of won a world title, the title would mean less than it already does. But that's the internet fanbase for you... they play checkers and never chess. They don't think more than two steps in front of them.

Wow. If you can't figure out what point of "NO ONE WANTS HIM TO WN A WORLD TITLE RIGHT AWAY", then wow. Give him the small push. If it works, push him to regular mid-carder for a half year, or year. If he gets really over, push him to upper-mid-card, and so on. If he fails at any point, send him back to jobber-land. Helmet and shoulder pad fitting for football, then hitting the weights. Can't wait for the season to start. No one is asking for him to pull a Jack Swagger, jobber to champion in 2 weeks.

I think the fact that some of the most diehard Ryder marks on this forum have come out in this thread and said that they'd be happy with just a few matches on Raw each month proves that they'd me more than fine if he was in three-five minute squashes like his one with Kofi. And like I said, should Ryder eventually get his coveted push, all it would take is a couple promos, a handful of wins, and the right story to make him from jobber to midcarder overnight.

This.

Big, huge, massive difference between Morrison, Christian and Zack Ryder. Morrison and Christian have proven themselves worthy. Both guys were consistent mid-card players, had great matches, etc. Ryder has proven absolutely nothing. Amazing how little this means to his broskis.

Have you EVER watched his matches on Superstars. Have you ever watched his promos on ECW or his show? He is plenty worthy. Yeah, he hasn't proven himself worthy on RAW, because he hasn't even got a chance. Put he's proven through those other outlets he deserves a chance at RAW.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Have you EVER watched his matches on Superstars. Have you ever watched his promos on ECW or his show? He is plenty worthy. Yeah, he hasn't proven himself worthy on RAW, because he hasn't even got a chance. Put he's proven through those other outlets he deserves a chance at RAW.

I've seen just about everything Ryder been apart of. He has been around since 2007, and hasn't done much of anything. His promos, on live television, were awful. Sure, he sounds a bit more natural on Youtube, but there he has the power of editing to help him out.

I don't necessarily think he's a bad wrestler, however, I still see no reason why he should be taking away television time from someone else. How is he better than who he would be replacing? Why should someone who puts on mediocre matches be moved up before someone like Trent Barreta, or Tyson Kidd?

Obviously we disagree. I don't buy into the hype. Being somewhat funny on Youtube means nothing to me. Doing something on national television, each week, is a hell of a lot tougher than Youtube. Given what I've seen from him, since 2007, I see no reason for him to move ahead of anyone else.

 

[D-Man]

Because Ryder has shown better in-ring ability on Superstars and better mic work on ECW, Superstars, and his YouTube show.

That's a lot to say when comparing him to someone that's already won tag team gold, was in main event feuds, and main evented a PPV. I really can't put Ryder on his level because you feel he's had some good matches on Superstars. Sorry, man.

he is more charismatic, and he is probably more over from his YouTube show than DiBiase is from being on TV. How is he not better?

Yes, obviously Ryder has more charisma. And he entertains you more. So this deserves a push? If so, then let's push Santino, Evan Bourne, Chris Masters... hell, let's push everybody!

I respect your opinions but you're really blowing Ryder up far more than he deserves.

I have gotten your point the whole time. I just don't think (if it was even necessary) Vince's actions were justifiable. There is no single reason why Vince had to go as overboard as he did, looking at the situation. At all. What he did is just about one of the worst treatments of any employee in the business I've heard in forever. Ryder might have messed up, but there was no justifiable reason why Vince had to do what he did. A week suspension probably would've been better than this on Ryder's end. I don't think you understand just how bad it really is, what Vince did.

What Vince did was no different than any employee in any company who had been promised a raise or a jump in position and was passed up by someone else. The only difference is that this was a bit more public, but that's the business of pro-wrestling. Everything is public and in front of a live audience. So, in comparison with any other business, this happens to employees everyday, unfortunately.

FOR GODS SAKES HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!! Nobody wants him to pop up and pin John Cena. We want him to start out with a small video package or promo one week. Maybe a couple squash matches, put him against R-Truth, or John Morrison. Then he starts picking up a win or two against lower-card talent. People start taking him seriously, he acts more serious in promos. Eventually he attacks a mid-card star and shows his serious side. Small push has began.

But you guys want that for EVERYBODY. Every day someone comes onto Wrestlezone and says "push <this guy>, push <that guy>." It's never ending. And when he gets a little push then you want him to have a midcard title. And once he gets the midcard title you want him to have a world title.

In this business, you need main eventers, midcarders, and jobbers. The deck is always being shuffled. Just about everyone gets a chance to shine. But forcing the issue by making YouTube videos and voicing your disdain about the company on a public forum is just plain WRONG. And right now, it isn't Ryder's time to shine. I'm sure it'll happen eventually but, until it does, everyone needs to get off his dick and let it be.

Have you EVER watched his matches on Superstars. Have you ever watched his promos on ECW or his show? He is plenty worthy. Yeah, he hasn't proven himself worthy on RAW, because he hasn't even got a chance. Put he's proven through those other outlets he deserves a chance at RAW.

Man, you've got it bad for him.

There are guys that did fantastic jobs on NXT, too. But once they were put on Raw or Smackdown, they floundered.

The biggest problem is that none of you have any patience. You want everyone to break through a glass ceiling RIGHT NOW. Listen, with Ryder's internet popularity, he won't be ignored for long. But for the love of everything that is holy, STOP SWEATING IT RIGHT NOW.

(Mucho respect, TSG.)

 

[The Crock]

 

[Stormtrooper]

That's a lot to say when comparing him to someone that's already won tag team gold, was in main event feuds, and main evented a PPV. I really can't put Ryder on his level because you feel he's had some good matches on Superstars. Sorry, man.

Ryders a former tag champ.

I respect your opinions but you're really blowing Ryder up far more than he deserves.

You mean someone who entertains people, has plenty of signs of each week in the arena's, and this week outpopped virtually everyone not names Stone Cold Steve Austin doesn't deserve ANY TV/mic time? Sorry, I don't buy it.

But you guys want that for EVERYBODY. Every day someone comes onto Wrestlezone and says "push <this guy>, push <that guy>." It's never ending. And when he gets a little push then you want him to have a midcard title. And once he gets the midcard title you want him to have a world title.

To be fair, any sane fan wouldn't want a guy who is working on Superstars to jump to the World Title (Ryder included). If they impress in their current role, they want them to be in higher standing. Ryder has impressed in his current role, and they wish he would be treated fairly and bumped up the card a bit.

In this business, you need main eventers, midcarders, and jobbers. The deck is always being shuffled. Just about everyone gets a chance to shine. But forcing the issue by making YouTube videos and voicing your disdain about the company on a public forum is just plain WRONG. And right now, it isn't Ryder's time to shine. I'm sure it'll happen eventually but, until it does, everyone needs to get off his dick and let it be.

Ryder has never been given a chance to shine as a singles competitor on the main brands. He got thrown on RAW, then they never did shit with him for his entire RAW career. And if the deck is always shuffled, why has Ryder been kept on the bottom of the deck without even a chance to move up. They shuffled the deck, but they omit his "card" and just put it at the bottom every time.

And he NEVER, EVER voiced disdain about the company. EVER, and to say so is just wrong. All he has EVER said is they missed the boat on him, or they dropped the ball on using him, or what-have-you. That's not being negative towards the company.

Man, you've got it bad for him.

There are guys that did fantastic jobs on NXT, too. But once they were put on Raw or Smackdown, they floundered.

And Zack Ryder never got the chance to do any of that, even though he has clearly deserved a SHOT to be on the main TV show.

The biggest problem is that none of you have any patience. You want everyone to break through a glass ceiling RIGHT NOW. Listen, with Ryder's internet popularity, he won't be ignored for long. But for the love of everything that is holy, STOP SWEATING IT RIGHT NOW.

I'd say 2 years is pretty fucking patient. And 3 months after he started getting over on his own dime is pretty fucking patient.

(Mucho respect, TSG.)

damn right. TSG=the man.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Latest episode of Z! True Long Island Story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40cedXBt0pw

 

[The Crock]

Latest episode of Z! True Long Island Story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40cedXBt0pw

In the time that it took me to watch that there were 33 new comments. He might have a few fans.

 

[JGlass]

It doesn't appear as though he's going to stop with the Partnership for a Woo Woo Woo America bits.

 

[Stormtrooper]

It doesn't appear as though he's going to stop with the Partnership for a Woo Woo Woo America bits.

and why would he stop? They're funny, and we now get to the root of this problem. If you're gonna punish someone for doing something, TELL THEM YOU'RE PUNISHING THEM, so they know that there are negative reprocussions to doing them.

The story never says that they told him "you aren't gonna be on RAW because we don't like this." They just didn't put him on RAW.

 

[X]

Interesting little take on the Ryder situation by Meltzer, taken out of today's Observer:

A big story involved Ryder. It was not a secret to anyone that there would be a vocal amount of fans in Long Island for Ryder. This was something up for discussion and the decision was made to put him on Superstars and not even show him on Raw. A lot of people who are in the company or insiders with the company were really unhappy with how this went down, with the idea that Ryder got himself over using new media and without a push or on their U.S. television shows. And instead, he wasn&#8217;t put on Raw because they knew he&#8217;d get such a big reaction that it would dwarf most of those being pushed. Now, if this was done to made him seem like someone the company is against, thus rallying the fans even stronger behind him (you know, like taking the title off Christian seemed to make him a bigger babyface and then well, you know), then it&#8217;s a unique strategy and we&#8217;ll see. But the company track record makes it more likely they just didn&#8217;t want him on TV getting a big reaction because they don&#8217;t believe him to be a star. The funny thing is everyone is told to get themselves over and how you have to show you can get over on your own, but if you do in an unorthodox way, that&#8217;s considered cheating and doesn&#8217;t count. Ryder pinned Primo with a flying leg lariat for Superstars and the home town crowd was big into him and into the match, more than most on Raw

And a correction on the original story, which was mis-attributed to Meltzer. It was actually posted by Bryan Alvarez, who helps Meltzer run the newsletter and does the whole Figure Four Online website that it's attached with, on the site news shortly after RAW. So it was Alvarez who got the info apparently and not Meltzer as originally reported.

 

[ABMorales787]

 

[D-Man]

Ryders a former tag champ.

How conveniently ignorant of you to overlook the other two factors I mentioned about Ted DiBiase that puts him ahead of Ryder.

You mean someone who entertains people, has plenty of signs of each week in the arena's, and this week outpopped virtually everyone not names Stone Cold Steve Austin doesn't deserve ANY TV/mic time? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Wow, big stretch for him to outpop other superstars in his hometown. Let him do that in other towns and we'll talk shop.

To be fair, any sane fan wouldn't want a guy who is working on Superstars to jump to the World Title (Ryder included). If they impress in their current role, they want them to be in higher standing. Ryder has impressed in his current role, and they wish he would be treated fairly and bumped up the card a bit.

You guys continue to miss my point. And I've answered it a billion times so I won't do it again.

Ryder has never been given a chance to shine as a singles competitor on the main brands. He got thrown on RAW, then they never did shit with him for his entire RAW career. And if the deck is always shuffled, why has Ryder been kept on the bottom of the deck without even a chance to move up. They shuffled the deck, but they omit his "card" and just put it at the bottom every time.

He's been on Raw since last February. Have a little patience... geez.

And he NEVER, EVER voiced disdain about the company. EVER, and to say so is just wrong. All he has EVER said is they missed the boat on him, or they dropped the ball on using him, or what-have-you. That's not being negative towards the company.

It's not? So advertising to the public that his character is being misused is not taking a direct shot at WWE creative? You can capitalize the word "EVER" all you want and it still cannot make this fact be ignored.

Like I've been saying, this is semantics. You don't think much of it but apparently someone did. And who are you to judge them? You're an internet wrestling forum poster. Vince owns a billion dollar conglomerate. I'd trust his way of thinking over yours, regardless of the size of his ego.

And Zack Ryder never got the chance to do any of that, even though he has clearly deserved a SHOT to be on the main TV show.

By YOUR standards. Which basically mean as much as mine or anyone else's that post on this forum.

I'd say 2 years is pretty fucking patient.

16 months, actually.

And 3 months after he started getting over on his own dime is pretty fucking patient.

Yeah, because YouTube is expensive.

damn right. TSG=the man.

Fuck yeah. You're cool, too. You're just very wrong here.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

Thing is, you can have balls and not do what Zack Ryder did, which is what Vince took offence to. Take The Major Brothers becoming the Edge Heads, Zack Ryder creating his current gimmick, Wade Barrett pitching the Nexus invasion or Stone Cold coming up with... Stone Cold.

I don't give a damn who was right or wrong about this. All I know is that I don't give a fuck about Zack Ryder, and in some ways I think it would be a good thing if he got released.

In all fairness, we don't know if that is why he wasn't on Raw, unless you got a text message too.

 

[JGlass]

Interesting little take on the Ryder situation by Meltzer, taken out of today's Observer

It'll be interesting to see how they deal with his massive pop on Superstars. It should be very revealing as to what McMahon's motivations for keeping Ryder off Raw were.

I'll never understand why the WWE tries to hide how over some of their guys are. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[D-Man]

I must see this Superstars taping. I love seeing crowds go apeshit for wrestlers, even if they're named Zack Ryder.

 

[shattered dreams]

Out of all the people that WWE hasn't pushed for a dumb reason I am shocked that Ryder is the one people have lost their heads over.

 

[Lee]

Ryder's only 25? That's actually just changed my total opinion on him.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

Ryder's only 25? That's actually just changed my total opinion on him.

In a positive or negative way?