WWE Region, Third Round, Dog Collar Match: (2) Shawn Michaels vs. (7) Bob Backlund

[Remix]

Everyone got caught in Kurt Angles ankle lock, who didn't tap out to Angle. Hell, even Taker tapped to Angle, even HOGAN tapped to Angle, EVERYONE TAPS TO ANGLE.

I would say during the match Shawn hung in there with Angle when it came down to chain and mat wrestling very well. Bob gets Shawn in the crossface chicken wing Shawn takes the chain, wraps it around his fist and hits Backlund, yeah real hard to get out of that one in a Dog Collar match.

All it takes is one Sweet Chin Music and this match is over, surely Shawn could get one of those off with no issue.

He can punch someone standing directly behind him on the face? Is his fist located on his elbow. Seriously people get some understanding of the mechanics of the moves before you post.

And it'd be harder for Shawn to get the kick than Backlund the chicken wing. All it takes is a tug on the chain and Shawn's taken off ballance enough that he can't deliver it.

I agree that HBK would win, but I don't think this is a valid argument. Both Shawn Michaels and Bob Backlund are on their home turf here, Backlund is just as much a WWE wrestler as HBK is.

He's more of a WWE wrestler. during the years of 1978-83 he was the WWF champion, and in this very building he kicked a lot of asses over the years. Shawn's done a lot in MSG, but Backlund did more, drew more and won more. Just like he would here.

 

[D-Man]

Wow... what a draw for Backlund.

Shawn doesn't stand a chance here. Backlund is a legitimate grappler and an animal with his crossface-chicken wing finishing hold. Shawn is at his best when he maneuvers himself around the ring, utilizing hi speed, agility and position to dominate his opponents. But with all of Shawn's knowledge, his only key to victory against Backlund would be to keep his distance from him. Obviously, this match stops that from happening.

Backlund will wear Shawn down and eventually lock him up into a submission where Shawn WILL tap out.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

He can punch someone standing directly behind him on the face? Is his fist located on his elbow. Seriously people get some understanding of the mechanics of the moves before you post.

And it'd be harder for Shawn to get the kick than Backlund the chicken wing. All it takes is a tug on the chain and Shawn's taken off ballance enough that he can't deliver it.

Dude I'm very aware of how a Chicken wing is applied, not hard to punch directly behind you, he does have one arm free after all. It's also not hard to pull of a low blow either in that position. The chain could make it easier to get out of the chicken wing if used right. Don't lecture me on move mechanics.

It's also true that Backlund could just tug the chain but it takes less than a second to hit Sweet Chin Music, he could hit it before Bob had a chance to react.

 

[D-Man]

Dude I'm very aware of how a Chicken wing is applied, not hard to punch directly behind you, he does have one arm free after all. It's also not hard to pull of a low blow either in that position. The chain could make it easier to get out of the chicken wing if used right. Don't lecture me on move mechanics.

Tell this to Bret Hart. If this were so easy to reverse, Bret would've done it about a million times instead of being Backlund's bitch every time he applied the move.

It's also true that Backlund could just tug the chain but it takes less than a second to hit Sweet Chin Music, he could hit it before Bob had a chance to react.

You act as if HBK never missed with Sweet Chin Music before. Backlund is a scholastic wrestler. He shoots for the legs. He can easily duck under SCM, get a single leg takedown, and apply the chicken wing.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Tell this to Bret Hart. If this were so easy to reverse, Bret would've done it about a million times instead of being Backlund's bitch every time he applied the move.



You act as if HBK never missed with Sweet Chin Music before. Backlund is a scholastic wrestler. He shoots for the legs. He can easily duck under SCM, get a single leg takedown, and apply the chicken wing.

Shawn has a chain to use to get out of the move, Bret didn't. Even if he can't punch Backlund you grab the chain, swing it backwards and hit Backlund with it, easy. Also Bret did reverse the Chicken Wing at Wrestlemania 11 so it can be done.

Of course HBK has missed Sweet Chin Music before but he can also hit it out of no where and end the match. Shawn's a little more explosive than Bob was.

 

[Remix]

Dude I'm very aware of how a Chicken wing is applied, not hard to punch directly behind you, he does have one arm free after all. It's also not hard to pull of a low blow either in that position. The chain could make it easier to get out of the chicken wing if used right. Don't lecture me on move mechanics.

It's also true that Backlund could just tug the chain but it takes less than a second to hit Sweet Chin Music, he could hit it before Bob had a chance to react.

Good. Now, throw a punch directly behind the back of your head (not to your head that would be silly). You can't hit very hard, can you?

Shawn has a chain to use to get out of the move, Bret didn't.

The chain makes it harder to get out of. It gives Backlund to hold onto and apply more pressure.

Even if he can't punch Backlund you grab the chain, swing it backwards and hit Backlund with it, easy. Also Bret did reverse the Chicken Wing at Wrestlemania 11 so it can be done.

Shawn Michaels is no Bret Hart, and Bob bidn't have a chain to make the move more effective and harder to escape.

Of course HBK has missed Sweet Chin Music before but he can also hit it out of no where and end the match. Shawn's a little more explosive than Bob was.

He isn't going to get the separation he needs to get the surprise superkick though, because Bob isn't going to give him any space, let his guard down or do something stupid to allow it to happen.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Good. Now, throw a punch directly behind the back of your head (not to your head that would be silly). You can't hit very hard, can you?

It's wrestling not an actual fight. If this was shoot rules Frank Gotch would have taken the whole thing and in that case yes, Backlund would win. All he has to do in wrestling is connect, he doesn't have to throw haymakers.

The chain makes it harder to get out of. It gives Backlund to hold onto and apply more pressure.

True but it can also benefit Shawn, its just a question of who uses the chain more to their advantage in that situation.

Shawn Michaels is no Bret Hart, and Bob didn't have a chain to make the move more effective and harder to escape.

Once again how the chain is used and by whom is the real question here. I gave it to Shawn because I feel he would use it more effectively.

He isn't going to get the separation he needs to get the surprise superkick though, because Bob isn't going to give him any space, let his guard down or do something stupid to allow it to happen.

He could though, you only need about 4 feet of separation to hit it and if Shawn can stun Backlund and give himself enough a few seconds to hit it. For example Shawn wraps the chain around his fist, punches Backlund, stuns Backlund, drops the chain, hits the Sweet Chin Music and its over.

I also have to say this. We are talking about both guys in their prime and Bob Backlund didn't even use the Crossface Chicken Wing in his prime so chances are you wouldn't see him using it in this match.

 

[pumpkinking8987]

DeanerandTerry:
You gotta remember though Bob was Vince Sr's champion not Vince Jr's. Vince Jr is much more about the entertainment then he is about the wrestling. Shawn had more charisma and more character than Bob, he was also much more entertaining to watch in the ring.

you mean the Vince Jr. that allowed a returning Bob Backlund to go over 60 minutes in the 93 Royal Rumble (which was unheardof at that time) or the Vince Jr that allowed Bob Backlund to beat Bret Hart for the WWE title when Bret at that time was the face of the promotion.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

you mean the Vince Jr. that allowed a returning Bob Backlund to go over 60 minutes in the 93 Royal Rumble (which was unheardof at that time) or the Vince Jr that allowed Bob Backlund to beat Bret Hart for the WWE title when Bret at that time was the face of the promotion.

You do realize Flair did 60 minutes literally the Royal Rumble before right? All I'm stating is Shawn Michaels fit the Vince Jr. mold better than Bob Backlund did. He also let Shane Douglas go a long time in the Rumble too but he certainly didn't amount to anything in the WWE.

I'm also gonna throw in there that the only reason Backlund beat Bret was for the simple fact he decided Diesel was gonna be the next champion of the company so they did the match in a way where Bret didn't lose face by getting destroyed in 8 seconds like Backlund did. After Backlunds feud with Bret he didn't do anything, he didn't do anything before it either. If Diesel wasn't on the rise Backlund wouldn't have been champion. Backlund being champ in '94 is the equivalent of Stan Stasiak being champion between Morales and Sammartino. It's simply done so one face doesn't have to beat another face.

 

[X]

Loving the support that Backlund is getting here, dude is still so underrated. Huge draw, incredible worker, and one of the legit strongest motherfuckers to ever wrestle (if you've seen his infamous roll through spot where he lifts guys anywhere from 250-500 pounds above his head with one arm into the middle of the air then you know that). Not to mention his success in the land of kayfabe, having not one but two successful main event runs over the course of three different decades in the WWF, the first of which was incredibly important after the end of the Sammartino era. Plus, this guy was a god damn workhorse to boot, always stealing the show at MSG with his incredible feuds against the likes of Adrian Adonis, Ken Patera, and Sgt. Slaughter among others, resulting in several Match of the Year winners in the early 80s.

All of that said however, this is Shawn's to win here. The guy is simply one of the best of all time, and while he may never have been quite the box-office draw Backlund was in the arenas he made up for it with longevity, insane workrate, and probably the best comeback in wrestling history. It also helps that he's beloved among wrestling fans like very few others, even with his infamous backstage politics in the 90s. Michaels is simply one of the greatest ever, and while I do think Backlund is underrated and up there, he's not Top 5 ever material like HBK is. He's got my vote here.

 

[nightmare]

Great posts for both sides. Hell, I even see Backlund as more legit than I had before. Never really liked him, but I have to respect the guy more now than I used to give him credit for.


With that being said, Shawn would get the win. Great match with alot of good technical moves mixed in with some chain thrashings. People dont give Shawn much credit for his technical ability. The man will always stick in my mind for his match at WM with Kurt. While most people watching at the theater were chanting 'boring'- me and my friends were loving the pace and execution of that match. He went toe to toe and hold for hold with Angle. Great stuff. Plus Bob is no slouch in the ring and can be very agile\quick when need be. This in RL would be a great matchup.



I have to give this one to HBK. I just see him as a bigger star and he has the ability to get the pin here. Kip up and HBK pulls the chain launching Backlund forward right into Sweet Chin Music.


HBK moving on.

 

[Loveless]

This idea that HBK needs distance to hit SCM from is nonsense. Case in point

04:30
[YOUTUBE]vxPUXRxDXe4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[steve_smith]

Loving the support that Backlund is getting here, dude is still so underrated. Huge draw, incredible worker, and one of the legit strongest motherfuckers to ever wrestle (if you've seen his infamous roll through spot where he lifts guys anywhere from 250-500 pounds above his head with one arm into the middle of the air then you know that). Not to mention his success in the land of kayfabe, having not one but two successful main event runs over the course of three different decades in the WWF, the first of which was incredibly important after the end of the Sammartino era. Plus, this guy was a god damn workhorse to boot, always stealing the show at MSG with his incredible feuds against the likes of Adrian Adonis, Ken Patera, and Sgt. Slaughter among others, resulting in several Match of the Year winners in the early 80s.

All of that said however, this is Shawn's to win here. The guy is simply one of the best of all time, and while he may never have been quite the box-office draw Backlund was in the arenas he made up for it with longevity, insane workrate, and probably the best comeback in wrestling history. It also helps that he's beloved among wrestling fans like very few others, even with his infamous backstage politics in the 90s. Michaels is simply one of the greatest ever, and while I do think Backlund is underrated and up there, he's not Top 5 ever material like HBK is. He's got my vote here.

Aha. So, in the Warrior-Cena thread, Warrior gets the knock for not being a draw as the face of the company. Michaels, however, is 'one of the greats ever' even though when he was the face of the company, the company almost went bankrupt. Consistency?

Michaels, imo, is the #1 most over-rated wrestlers ever. When Vince made him face of the company, I was one of those millions of viewers who clicked the dial. I can't believe that people call this guy a Top 5 ever. He's had a HOF career, but that Top 5 ever talk is just crazy.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

The stipulation really works in Backlund's favor here. It prevents Shawn from getting too much distance and really ups the importance of mat wrestling, where BAcklund is one of the best ever.

Backlund is a really underrated guy in WWF history. Shawn is great, too, obviously, but I think this stipulation really opens Backlund's chances way up. Vote Backlund.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Nah, it's just easy and truthful to call and prove you to be a dumbass.

Great, thats the best comeback you've had in this argument anyway.Assmonkey will quote this.

And Bob Backlund has beaten bigger and better men than Shawn Michaels. Face facts Paperghost. This match is in the home stadium of the WWF, where Bob Backlund was champion for over three years. In both men's primes Shawn would be the punk heel that Backlund puts down definitively.

What is it that you want me to face? That Bob was a good champion? Ye he was kiddo. I told you that. If you read the fucking opening post you would've been a little less daft and realized that I also said "SHAWN NEEDS INTERFERENCE". A heel, Shawn at his peak will have help. A dog collar match will help a heel as he is allowed to be ruthless and cut-throat.

What did Vince Sr. see in Backlund when he gave him his run? Thats right a goody-too shoes, all American Boy. For all his technical prowess it will do him no good here as this will be a downright brawl. If this was Sheik agaimst Shawn, I'd have thought harder.

More like Shawn goes for the kick, Backlund pulls on the chain sending him off balance and allowing the technical annihilation to begin. Standing on one leg is seldom a good idea when someone's got a chain around your neck.

Ye I don't think Backlund is a ninja and has shunjitsu reflexes. Sweet Chin Music is a stealth finisher as I have alluded to before.

Bob Backlund went from having no gimmick other than "good wrestler" for decades to "crazy man". He's plenty adaptable, and beating an inferior wrestler in a match that takes the inferior guys few advantages off the table is no ptoblem for him. Bob can Bet violent. Bob can get brutal and he has all the tools he needs to beat Shawn Michaels.

Oh ye that one run where he lost to Hart at WWF MSG Show?! Or when Razor Ramon pinned him at Mania? Or when he lost in RECORD TIME to Diesel for the WWF championship 3 days after winning it? Ye that dude was hardcore.

Amd I don't mind Bob 'betting' violent but the way his persona was, and the way HBK's persona was, this match screams HEEL.

And Bob isn't in the same league as Shawn. Know why, because he will never be remembered like Shawn. Blasphemous? Not for me. Everybody parades around saying how they have had great moments in wrestling and remind us of their accomplishments right? But when a legend like Stone Cold (who saw Flair in his prime) says Shawn's the best he is ever seen; when guys like Ric, Taker, Hunter all believe him to be the best, there has to be something there. I'm making this clear to you that Backlund as good as he was, and he was good, never reached the global status that Shawn attained and still has. Backlund is all but forgotten and hardly any American wrestling fans care/remember for him, forget the global ones.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Oh and people screaming he made Bret his bitch:

Bret Hart pinned Backlund in 93
Bret Hart pinned Backlund in July 94
Backlund beat Bret on Nov 23rd 94
Diesel beat Backlund on Nov 26th 94

Transitional situation much?

 

[Tastycles]

If Shawn Michaels boots Bob Backlund in the face, Backlund is going to fall backwards, the rope will tighten, and Michaels will have all of Backlund's weight on his own neck. In short, if Shawn Michaels tries to hit his finisher, he will break his own neck. So that's out. Backlund wins because for Michaels to win, he'd have to kill himself.

Well, also because he was a bigger draw, tougher and more resilient.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

If Shawn Michaels boots Bob Backlund in the face, Backlund is going to fall backwards, the rope will tighten, and Michaels will have all of Backlund's weight on his own neck. In short, if Shawn Michaels tries to hit his finisher, he will break his own neck. So that's out. Backlund wins because for Michaels to win, he'd have to kill himself.

Well, also because he was a bigger draw, tougher and more resilient.

[YOUTUBE]YKubok1UFpI[/YOUTUBE]


Shawn simply falls with Backlund. And ref have counted 3 for Shawn in that position a many times. Bischoff was dicking with him here. There was an angle.

 

[Cmills005]

[YOUTUBE]YKubok1UFpI[/YOUTUBE]


Shawn simply falls with Backlund. And ref have counted 3 for Shawn in that position a many times. Bischoff was dicking with him here. There was an angle.

Bingo.

Backlund may dominate the the majority of the match, but that's the norm for Shawn Michaels. Michaels looks dead to rights in this match then BAM! Sweet Chin Music. 1-2-3. This is the exact kind of match HBK overcomes the odds a wins.

 

[The Brain]

I’ve read the thread and I’ve got to say this is a difficult match. I ended up voting for Backlund. I like HBK as much as anybody and I’m not going to say anything to run him down. I just think Backlund would win the match. Let me review some of the things that have been discussed during throughout the thread.

Some have said the stipulation favors Backlund because it limits Shawn’s offense by restricting the distance he can create. I agree. I do think Shawn has the ability to adapt but to be taken out of his game against an accomplished wrestler like Backlund is a huge disadvantage. Backlund is the better grappler and he could use the chain to keep Shawn close and keep him in some of those wrestling holds. Yes, Shawn can grapple too. He did well against Kurt Angle at WM21 but he did lose.

I’ve read some pretty poor arguments about HBK countering the cross face chicken wing with something as simple as a punch or sweet chin music. I really don’t see this happening. First of all countering the chicken wing with sweet chin music makes no sense. You may as well say the sharpshooter could be countered with sweet chin music. Could you picture such a thing? Of course not. As others have pointed out Bret Hart was unable to counter the chicken wing. He laid helpless in the chicken wing for over nine minutes at Survivor Series 94. If you recall one of the stories leading up to Survivor Series was how there was no counter for the chicken wing. I know Bret reversed it at WM11 but the move was not fully executed. When the move is fully executed both men are down on the mat. Bret was able to reverse it against a 45 year old Backlund while still on his feet. If Backlund gets Michaels down it’s over. Keep in mind these two are attached at the neck, not the wrist like a strap match. That is bound to put a lot of strain on the neck and while the chicken wing mostly affects the arm and shoulder it also punishes the neck. After getting jerked around by the neck for twenty minutes that chicken wing is going to be even more painful than normal.

Some say that HBK has a home field advantage being in MSG. I don’t understand this argument at all. Backlund was THE main headliner at MSG for about a four year period. MSG was the house that Backlund subleased after Bruno built it. It was mentioned that while Backlund was in his prime he was Vince Sr.’s champion and Vince Jr. would book HBK to go over. Who says Vince Jr. has the book? It’s the WWE region but if we’re able to view Backlund in his prime we can imagine Vince Sr. has a say in the booking. You know the only man in the world that Vince Jr. might back down to? Vince Sr.

For the most part Shawn is a loser. For as harsh as that sounds I don’t mean it as an insult and I’m not talking bad about Shawn. The simple fact is he lost more often than he won. He has this incredible reputation as one of the best mostly because of how he built himself up with the Mr. WrestleMania nickname. He did always put on a hell of a performance at mania but when it came to results he lost more often than he won. He looked great in defeat but he was still defeated. He could look great here too but in the end this is Backlund’s match to win.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I’ve read some pretty poor arguments about HBK countering the cross face chicken wing with something as simple as a punch or sweet chin music. I really don’t see this happening. First of all countering the chicken wing with sweet chin music makes no sense. You may as well say the sharpshooter could be countered with sweet chin music. Could you picture such a thing? Of course not. As others have pointed out Bret Hart was unable to counter the chicken wing. He laid helpless in the chicken wing for over nine minutes at Survivor Series 94. If you recall one of the stories leading up to Survivor Series was how there was no counter for the chicken wing. I know Bret reversed it at WM11 but the move was not fully executed. When the move is fully executed both men are down on the mat. Bret was able to reverse it against a 45 year old Backlund while still on his feet. If Backlund gets Michaels down it’s over. Keep in mind these two are attached at the neck, not the wrist like a strap match. That is bound to put a lot of strain on the neck and while the chicken wing mostly affects the arm and shoulder it also punishes the neck. After getting jerked around by the neck for twenty minutes that chicken wing is going to be even more painful than normal.

I am not speaking for others here, but all I'm gonna say is I have never mentioned the Chickenwing being countered into a sweet chin music. I have said that Bob yanks the chain to bring Shawn closer and WHACK!


Also one clear way out of the chickenwig will be the the mule kick low blow. When they are vertical of course. No rules here so it will be legal as sunshine.

 

[The Brain]

I am not speaking for others here, but all I'm gonna say is I have never mentioned the Chickenwing being countered into a sweet chin music. I have said that Bob yanks the chain to bring Shawn closer and WHACK!


Also one clear way out of the chickenwig will be the the mule kick low blow. When they are vertical of course. No rules here so it will be legal as sunshine.

I don't see HBK being able to use sweet chin music if Bob yanks the chain. These two are connected at the neck. If Bob yanks the chain Shawn is going to stumble regardless of how athletic he is. Shawn will be too off balance to connect with the kick.

 

[pumpkinking8987]

This is the reason there is stipulations if you Ignore them all together why even have them. Bob Backlund vs Shawn Michaels is close without having a stipulation. A past his prime Bob Backlund hung with the Excellence of Execution. There is little doubt in my mind that Backlund in his prime is a better pure wrestler then HBK.

Add the stipulation to the match and it should be overwhelmingly in Backlund's favor. There will be no negative affect to Bob's offense, and at the same time HBK will definetly be negatively affected.

Yes Shawn can hit Sweet Chin Music, but i dont believe i have ever seen another finisher countered so much, especially into submissions...

BOB BACKLUND deserves this win, he has earned it. This is the perfect draw with the perfect gimmick, VOTE BACKLUND and shake it up.

 

[nightmare]

I just dont understand how some people dont consider HBK to be one of the best ever. His in ring work should speak for itself. I cant recall Backlund putting on a single match that was better than either of the HBK\Taker matches. What Shawn did in those losses and still came up short- damn. Those were astounding and dramatic matches.


Also, the distance for the SCM argument is crap. He has proven he can hit that kick in a short distance and still be very effective. Hell the fact he can hit it out of nowhere, just when you think he is dead should prove a valid point also. How many times have we seen HBK hit that kick when the chips were down? You think you have him beat, he hits SCM out of nowhere and its over. In mere seconds the whole match swings the other way. Chain and Chicken-Wing aside- that kick is something HBK has that Backlund doesnt. He might graze him with one early on, but at the last second when Bob thinks everything is ok- BAM! Lights out Backlund.


That kick has taken out men of great talent within the blink of an eye. Go ahead and count Shawn down and out, beat him up and make him bleed. You will see what happens- Sweet Chin Music.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Bob Backlund here...

It takes a sadistic human being to win this match... and HBK's never been known as sadistic or crazy... Bob Backlund has. He knows submissions and knows ways to torture opponents. Also, Backlund's a better pro wrestler than HBK. Mat wrestling and leverage go to Backlund here.

Though HBK will have the better entrance, I have to give this one to Backlund via choking out HBK with the dog collar.