WWE Region, Fourth Round, 3 Stages Of Hell: (2) Shawn Michaels vs (3) John Cena

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the WWE Region. It is a 3 Stages of Hell match. It will be held at Madison Square Garden, New York, New York.

Rules: This is a 2/3 Falls match. The first fall is a street fight, the second fall is a cage match which is won by pinfall, submission or escaping the cage, and the third fall is a ladder match.

#2. Shawn Michaels

Vs.

#3. John Cena

​

This match takes place one week following the third round.

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

This would be an epic match, no doubt about that in my mind. We've seen them go at it several years back, including an epic match on Raw that lasted more than an hour. Cena got the win over HBK at WrestleMania and HBK got the win over Cena very soon after.

This is a perfect setting for these two as it doesn't seem to favor one man over the other. Each is differently suited to certain aspects of this match. We all know HBK can brawl but I don't think he's as comfortable here as Cena is. Just look at Cena vs. Lesnar for proof of that. HBK's always been tough but, more often than not, he's gotten the shit kicked out of him in street fight/no rules sort of matches. So I'd give Cena an advantage there.

The steel cage is a complete toss up. I don't see either man having an advantage here as both have won some major victories in cage matches.

The ladder match is one where HBK has the edge. I'm not gonna say something "well Cena can't climb a ladder" or any other bullshit nonsense like that, but HBK has had some fantastic ladder matches in the past. He put ladder matches on the map in WWE. While it's still a no rules sort of environment, the fact that he can't lose this particular fall via pinfall or submission helps him out. Not that Cena is a slouch in ladder matches, he's been in several of them in his career and usually comes out on top.

Even in the stages where I see one guy having an advantage, the other guy still has a very, very viable chance of winning. I don't know which way to go here right now and compelling arguments can be made for both men.

 

[klunderbunker]

This is probably the best match of the round and I have no idea who is going to win.

Both guys bring it better than almost anyone on the big stage. The one thing to keep in mind here: Shawn Michaels can and has beaten John Cena clean. London, England - April 23, 2007: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels. Cena was WWE Champion and Shawn beat him 100% clean with Sweet Chin Music after over 55 minutes. Shawn beat Cena 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring after kicking out of the FU and escaping the STFU.

Now does that mean that Shawn will beat Cena? Not for sure, but it certainly means that it's possible for him to do it here. I'm not sure who I'm going to pick yet but it's a toss-up.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I see this happening exactly as the HHH/HBK Three Stages of Hell Match went. Cena takes the first fall as it is a Street Fight and I believe Cena has an advantage. Since these things always goes to the third fall, I'll give HBK the second one even though I would put Cena over HBK in a cage match and Cena will win the third fall. To those who will say that HBK is the innovator of the ladder match and all that noise, HBK beat Ramon in the rematch of his WM 10 loss and the only other wrestler he's ever beat in a ladder match is Goldust. Food for thought.

 

[Big Sexy]

This goes to Cena. HBK has a victory over Cena but it was on Monday Night Raw and there was nothing on the line. When it actually counted on the biggest stage of them all for the WWE Title, Cena came out on top. This is the type of match where HBK would put on a tremendous performance and it would be a 4 or 5 star match, but in the end he would put over his opponent. HBK would get a fall but Cena comes out on top.

 

[LSN80]

Both guys bring it better than almost anyone on the big stage. The one thing to keep in mind here: Shawn Michaels can and has beaten John Cena clean. London, England - April 23, 2007: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels. Cena was WWE Champion and Shawn beat him 100% clean with Sweet Chin Music after over 55 minutes. Shawn beat Cena 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring after kicking out of the FU and escaping the STFU.
.

That's only the smaller half of the story here, however.

The bigger half to remember is what happened when Cena and HBK tangled for the WWE Championship at Wrestlemania 23. Cena didn't only beat HBK clean, he made him tap out. Not that HBK hasn't tapped out before, but this was in the main event of Wrestlemania, the biggest stage of them all.

And for those who would argue that this was a "past his prime" HBK, he was main-eventing Wrestlemania for the WWE Championship. Men "out of their prime" don't compete for the WWE Title at Wrestlemania in the main event. So while HBK did pin Cena 3 weeks later in a rematch, it was on a smaller stage, and with smaller stakes. It was bragging rights- nothing more. Cena beat HBK in a very physical matchup, including him taking a piledriver from HBK on the ring steps, at Wrestlemania.

I think the street fight element favors Cena. People can point to the return match HBK had at Summerslam 2002 after 5 years back, where HBK beat HHH, and it's a valid point. But Cena beat Brock freakin Lesnar in a Street Fight, who's far tougher then HHH is. We saw proof of that on Monday.

I think the cage match environment also favors Cena. While HBK has always been impressive in, and has won his fair share of cage matches, I'll take Cena's three Elimination Chamber match wins. HBK has won one, and while he's beat up a heck of a fight in the others, he's taken a beating and lost. If we went to limit this to regular cage matches, Cena is 2-1. He beat Edge and Alex Riley, and lost to Sheamus, but only after major Nexus interference. I see this as a face vs face matchup, with no interference, and I think that lends to a Cena victory as well. But in the case that HBK does roll Cena up, catch him with Sweet Chin Music or escape quickly, that leaves the ladder match....

I say this goes to Cena. While HBK is the Innovator of the ladder match, he's hardly got a good record in them. He's shined in defeat, the WM match against Ramon and No Mercy 08 against Jericho come to mind, but he lost. Cena, in his only WWE ladder match(I believe) walked into Edge's hometown, into Edge's match, and despite outside interference, beat Edge in a TLC match. I've heard the tired argument that a TLC match isn't the same as a ladder match-Why not? Climb ladder, retrieve belt, anything else goes? What's the difference? Aren't chairs and ladders legal in a regular ladder match as well? They are. Cena showed that, despite interference, he could beat the true master of the ladder match.

Cena wins this. I think all three matches lend the slight advantage to Cena, but should HBK win one fall, no chance does he take 2 from Cena in one night. I don't see the argument for HBK here that he beat Cena in London, a far less impressive feat then Cena making him submit in the main event of Wrestlemania.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I'm leaning towards Cena right now.

This match is by far the hardest to decide, both guys are incredible and frankly it being in the garden would guarantee a white hot crowd. The stars all aligned for this match, no question about it.

The reason I'm going with Cena is the matches themselves seem to be in his favour. Cena has done very well in all 3 stipulations and I think it the whole match benefits him from top to bottom. I know that a lot of people would say the Ladder match benefits Shawn but truthfully I only recall him winning 1 and that was the Summerslam rematch with Razor. A street fight benefits Cena as I think overall he can dish out more punishment and take everything Shawn throws at him. I think Shawn would be more inclined to win the Cage match as if Cena is dazed enough from something as simple as a mistake Shawn could make a quick exit. The match would go 3 falls but its really hard to go against Cena in this, much harder than Shawn.

As of now ill go with Cena but I can definitely be persuaded by the end, its a really close matchup.

SIDE NOTE: Every time I see that HBK picture I can't help but laugh. Becca persuaded you to use that pic, didn't she KB.

 

[Loveless]

I'll keep this brief

HBK in his prime doesn't lose clean and Cena prime doesn't win dirty. For that reason

Cena takes the first fall when he has weapons
HBK takes the next two which, whether you like it or not, suit him better.

Now regarding the matches they've had.

Cena beat a past his prime HBK
Past his prime HBK beat Prime Cena

I'd also argue that had HBK not gotten injured post Wrestlemania they were positioning him to win the belt off Cena. He beat him in London and at the following PPV he nailed Cena, only to have Cena fall on someone and have the pin counted to retain.
Factor in where this match is being held and it's clear that HBK gets the "dream" win over a less than popular Cena to leave the crowd happy.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'll keep this brief

HBK in his prime doesn't lose clean and Cena prime doesn't win dirty. For that reason

Cena takes the first fall when he has weapons
HBK takes the next two which, whether you like it or not, suit him better.

Now regarding the matches they've had.

Cena beat a past his prime HBK
Past his prime HBK beat Prime Cena

I'd also argue that had HBK not gotten injured post Wrestlemania they were positioning him to win the belt off Cena. He beat him in London and at the following PPV he nailed Cena, only to have Cena fall on someone and have the pin counted to retain.
Factor in where this match is being held and it's clear that HBK gets the "dream" win over a less than popular Cena to leave the crowd happy.

Enlighten me as to how a cage match favors HBK over Cena because I would be delighted to hear.

So the match is being held in Madison Square Garden. I remember Cena winning the Royal Rumble at MSG which is pretty much on par with HBK winning the title if that's what you're referring to.

 

[Loveless]

Enlighten me as to how a cage match favors HBK over Cena because I would be delighted to hear.

He's smarter, quicker and more agile.

So the match is being held in Madison Square Garden. I remember Cena winning the Royal Rumble at MSG which is pretty much on par with HBK winning the title if that's what you're referring to.

It's not on a par, especially as Cena then failed to win the title. Secondly I remember him being booed out of the building, and this was against HHH, hardly a fan favourite either.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

He's smarter, quicker and more agile.



It's not on a par, especially as Cena then failed to win the title. Secondly I remember him being booed out of the building, and this was against HHH, hardly a fan favourite either.

1. I've never seen HBK or Cena win a steel cage match by escaping the cage so the quicker and more agile stuff means nothing to me. Cena has a better record in steel cage matches than HBK.

2. Cena was booed out of the building and still won. I remember that happening quite a bit.

 

[Loveless]

2. Cena was booed out of the building and still won. I remember that happening quite a bit.

Punk in Chicago
Rock in Miami
Frickin' RVD in New York

 

[JGlass]

He's smarter, quicker and more agile.

Smarter? John Cena beat Batista with duct tape. I'd like to see HBK do something half that smart.

Quicker and more agile... maybe quick, but I'm not willing to give him the agile advantage. Cena is crazy athletic for a big man.

It's not on a par, especially as Cena then failed to win the title. Secondly I remember him being booed out of the building, and this was against HHH, hardly a fan favourite either.

Hmmm, I seem to remember Cena getting a HUGE pop when he returned at the 2008 Royal Rumble.

[YOUTUBE]juy5Kg1Fpd4[/YOUTUBE]

Yeah, that was pretty fucking favorable for John Cena.

Not that a hostile crowd matters. He's won the majority of his matches in hostile environments, making your point wildly moot.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

This will no doubt come down to the ladder match. I am not really sure who will win the streetfight or the cage match but it is apparent that a match this big has to come down to the last fall. Off the top of my head, HBK has won streetfights against HHH, Chris Jericho, Edge and Kevin Nash and lost to Shane McMahon and The Undertaker and also to Batista in a stretcher match in a hardcore environment. Cena has mostly won in a hardcore environment against the likes of Umaga, Batista, Randy Orton, JBL, Brock Lesnar and many more and has one clean loss against JBL.

When you come to the cage match, HBK has defeated Nash and HHH( one of the falls in their three fall match in 2002) while Cena has defeated Edge and Alex Riley and lost to Sheamus via interference. It's really a toss-up here and you can give the first two matches to either guy but you would have to agree that it is going to be 1-1 by the end of fall number 2. For argument's sake, I'd say that the first fall goes to Cena for defeating a tougher opponent like BrockLesnar in a streetfight while the second fall goes to HBK because he has never lost a regular cage match.

As for the final fall, I'll give it to Cena. HBK has lost ladder matches to Hart, Ramon and Jericho and won against Ramon and Goldust while Cena has won against Edge in a TLC. One thing I would like to mention that LJL left out because he fucking hates HBK is that HBK lost via interference in the ladder match against Jericho. An argument could be made that HBK had that match won. Even so, I would give more prominence to a win over Edge, a great ladder match competitor than a win against either Ramon, Goldust and a loss via interference against Jericho. Just like at Unforgiven 2006, Cena will walk into the final fall of this match as an underdog because of his opponent's experience but will leave as the winner just like he did at Unforgiven.

Winner: John Cena.

 

[Loveless]

Smarter? John Cena beat Batista with duct tape. I'd like to see HBK do something half that smart.

I'm so glad you mentioned that. Cena lost his last WWE title after being tricked by Del Rio into leaving the cell and then being locked out. Yeah he's a genius.

 

[The Gribbler]

This is the sort of match where Shawn Micheals pre-comeback wins in an epic, and post-comeback offers to do the job to Cena. However, I am going to give Cena the win here, I think the street fight gives Cena the edge, and somehow I think he holds on to win the Ladder match in the third fall.

 

[Tastycles]

This could be the turning point in IWC history. On the one hand you have the man who spent his prime being a complete and utter cunt, who the IWC love. On the other hand you have the man who has done nothing but try, and the IWC hate him. I'd argue in any of the things these matches can be measured in, Cena has the edge - he's a bigger draw, he has more impressive wins, he has more accomplishments and was the face of the company far longer. You might argue that Michaels had better matches, but that's not as clear as you might think.

Cena has found a way to beat just about everyone in just about every match type. I see no reason why he couldn't find a way to win two of these falls.

 

[nightmare]

I still dont know where to go with this. Cena in his prime was squeaky clean and beat almost everyone, but HBK in his prime had a devious nature and would always find a way to win.


I see DX being a factor in the first fall helping HBK take the win. Either HHH alone or the other members give him the edge in a beatdown of Cena. Sneaky and underhanded, but that makes sense. The cage is lowered- Cena gets his revenge and beats HBK without interference leaving DX pissed on the outside for the 2nd fall.


The ladder match is one I actually cant figure out here. Both have shown they can win this match and it doesnt really favor either man. I think that once the cage is raised HHH would rush in to attack Cena while HBK is recovering and Chyna would set up the ladder and try to get HBK on his feet. Cena mounts a superhero comeback on HHH and lays him out. Chyna and HBK beat on Cena for a minute and she holds up Cena while HBK goes for the SCM. Unfortunately Cena ducks and HBK kicks Chyna in the face. He has a staredown with Cena and they go at it like 2 wild dogs. Cena hits the AA and goes up the ladder.


Just about that time HHH slides in with a chair, whacks Cena and he falls from the ladder. HHH hits a pedigree on Cena and pulls Shawn to his feet helping him up the ladder.


HBK wins with a little help from his friends. That scenario just keeps playing in my head when I see this ladder match. I have to go with HBK. Sneaky, cocky, underhanded DX era HBK wins the final fall.

 

[The Wrestling God]

My big question is what do we define as Cena's "prime" are we saying when he won his first title against JBL? His over year long reign that only ended due to injury? Super Cena we have had after his return from pectoral injury? or The post Rock Wrestlemania Match Cena? I feel that these are all different Cena's for HBK to face

For this type of match against the four types of Cena I see this:
Cena after winning against JBL would beat HBK in his prime
Cena during his year long reign would also beat HBK in his prime
"Super" Cena would actually lose since despite what we may believe "super" never lost he lost against clever or dastardly opponents more often then the two previous Cena's I mentioned
Current Cena would also lose against HBK in his prime since for some reason (ignoring his Hulking up against Brock Lesnar) he looks weaker and more vulnerable lately.

I actually think Cena in his "prime" would be either his over year long reign or after the return from injury so I am split and the arguments for either man here so for now I am currently undecided I may post later with my choice

 

[Daniel]

Cena wins this.

John Cena is one of the greatest wrestlers of all-time. When all is said and done, he will be thought of in the same way as Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock are now. He'll be thought of as the guy. Michaels will be remembered as an all-time great, but not in the same way as Cena. Cena has also been more successful, more dominant and a bigger draw. Cena has been the top guy in a financially successful WWE for seven years. Michaels was at the top of the WWF when it almost went bust.

So Cena's better at his job than Michaels was. Glad we could clear that up. Now let's look at how this match would go. Shawn Michaels has pinned Cena before. That's very true. But it took him 55 minutes to do so, and as far as I'm aware, it's the only time he's done it clean. Do you really think Michaels would be booked to do it twice in one night? No, neither do I.

Individually, the match stipulations don't mean a whole lot. Cena has one all of those matches before, as has Michaels. But put them together in a nice little bundle, and Cena definitely benefits. After all, this is SuperCena we're talking about. He's the go-to guy when it comes to digging down deep and getting a result. You can throw a street fight and a cage match at him, but Cena will still come back and climb that ladder. Michaels, on the other hand, wouldn't do that.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I can't imagine Shawn winning this. I'd like to, but it's not happening.

I don't want to hear about Shawn's legendary stamina. Cena can go just as long as Shawn, and he's more destructive. He's just tougher, there's no way around that.

This isn't an anti-Shawn thing for me. I always liked Shawn as a competitor. However, I see no reason to vote for him. No matter how hard I try, and I can't imagine a scenario where he wins. I think he's better than John, but in the realm of kayfabe, Cena's tougher.

John wins.

 

[Cmills005]

To me this comes down to the steel cage match. Cena wins the street fight and HBK takes the ladder match. And I have far from made my mind up about that cage match.

The one thing that keeps popping in my mind is that match in the UK. That year was the absolute prime of John Cena's prime. He was untouchable. And HBK beat him clean. And that was far from HBKs prime. Like I said I still have no idea which way I'm going. But I can see cena seconds away from the sweep in two matches, Cena goes for the AA and HBK lands on his feet and we have the same finish as in the UK. But hey, if that happens Cena would be a lot fresher if that happened.

What. A. Match.

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Cena going over HBK will be worse than punk going over hart.really?just because he's face of the company doesnt mean he gets the pie.He'll manage to get at best one fall and then what.HBK has beaten the biggest names in buisness.Who has Cena beaten?huh? HBK was in the company when the show's ratings were 7-8,cena's get hardly 3's. Cena lost a match to a visitor of 8yrs where HBK won EC when no one thought he'd be the same after his injury. Vote goes to HBK.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Cena going over HBK will be worse than punk going over hart.really?just because he's face of the company doesnt mean he gets the pie.He'll manage to get at best one fall and then what.HBK has beaten the biggest names in buisness.

Biggest names in the business?

Has HBK beat Hogan? No.

Has HBK beat Austin? No.

Give me some big names.

Who has Cena beaten?huh? HBK was in the company when the show's ratings were 7-8,cena's get hardly 3's. Cena lost a match to a visitor of 8yrs where HBK won EC when no one thought he'd be the same after his injury. Vote goes to HBK.

That same HBK who lost a month later in a Three Stages of Hell match.

 

[Shocky]

John Cena should win this one, fairly easily. John Cena is just flat out a better all around professional wrestler then Shawn Michaels. Yes, I know that's IWC blasphemy, but it's the simple truth.

Shawn Michaels lost a three stages of hell match to Triple H, with the same exact match types taking place in that match. I see a scenario where Michaels might win the first match, and Cena goes two straight to move onto the next round.