WWE Region, Fourth Round, TLC: (2) Undertaker vs. (3) Andre the Giant

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the WWE Region. It is a Tables, Ladders and Chairs match, held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York.

Rules: A briefcase will be hung over the ring and the wrestlers must climb a ladder to pull it down. Tables, ladders and chairs will be provided and encouraged for use.

#2. Undertaker

Vs.

#3. Andre the Giant

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Since Warrior never submitted and he didn't seem like a guy who would submit I am going to have to go with Andre because he never went through a table, fell on a ladder or was knocked unconscious by a chair.

Undertaker lost all sorts of matches even during his prime. Did UT even have a prime?

Andre wins this easily.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Goddamn. I'm a big Undertaker fan, I truly am. Been pulling for him throughout this contest. But if I were honest with myself, I'd know the buck stops here. It's Madison Square Garden, and Andre has never struck me as the type to be put through a table or even have a chair keep him down completely. Undertaker has at least succumbed to chair blows before. This isn't Hell in a Cell and Andre is not from the era that saw hardcore bumps trend. Undertaker was one hell of a novelty character, but Andre has a posse.

Andre climbs a few steps and yanks the briefcase down, to the awe of all of his doubters.

 

[Tastycles]

I think this has got to be Andre's. Undertaker has shown himself to be vulnerable to monsters in his first encounter, losing to luminaries like The Great Khali. People also forget that the Streak has a win by DQ against Giant Gonzales, who knocked him out with chloroform.

A definite worthy argument for Undertaker would be that he had the better of the Big Show for most of his career, but to that I'd say that The Big Show became enhancement to the top level stars fairly early on, and their head to head was much closer, if not in Big Show's favour in the first couple of years he was in the WWF. Andre never really had that jobber to the top tier phase until the very end of his career when he could barely run.

For me, the stipulation doesn't really factor into it, Undertaker has fought in ladder and TLC matches, but he's beaten a then tag team specialist narrowly and lost to Edge, so I don't think we can read too much into it.

 

[Bernkastel]

Always with the ladder. Both of these guys were mostly novelties their whole careers, but Andre was bigger and better. People think Undertaker transcended the WWE and wrestling; he doesn't. Andre did. Does Taker have a posse? No he does not.

Plus you know it's MSG, and Andre was undefeated there almost as long as Taker was at Mania. The difference being that McMahon didn't ever consider ending Andre's streak multiple times before it ended.

So gotta go with Andre.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The stip doesn't fucking matter, and I will bitch slap the first person who says it does. Don't be a fucking idiot.

I'd like to see a real, legit argument on who REALLY is the bigger draw and influence on the business. The knee-jerk default answer is Andre, but REALLY consider the longevity of Taker, the heights in popularity in the business he was around for, the enormous shows he has been on for two decades. If you look at it impartially, Andre isn't automatic.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The stip doesn't fucking matter, and I will bitch slap the first person who says it does. Don't be a fucking idiot.

I'd like to see a real, legit argument on who REALLY is the bigger draw and influence on the business. The knee-jerk default answer is Andre, but REALLY consider the longevity of Taker, the heights in popularity in the business he was around for, the enormous shows he has been on for two decades. If you look at it impartially, Andre isn't automatic.

The problem here Norcal, is that people are incapable of doing that where 'Taker is concerned. With him the argument against him is your standard, "He never was the number 1 guy so he automatically isn't a draw". What a load of horse shit. They don't call 'Taker the cornerstone of the WWE for nothing or the foundation of the WWE. I bet if people added up just the crowds that he's wrestled for at all of his Wrestlemania appearances that that number may be fairly equal to or even greater than the number of people that Andre has wrestled in front of for his entire career.

The reason Andre was such a big name was because of his size and that's it. He was the first, honest to goodness giant in the wrestling business. Don't get me wrong, I respect Andre, however, if Paul Wight had have came first, we'd be talking about him instead. Hell, if the Great Khali had've come first we'd be talking about him. The same can't be said about 'Taker. The reason 'Taker is where he is at is because the man worked his ass off. He didn't rely on his size alone. 'Taker, unlike Andre, is someone who got better and better as time went on. So much so that it can easily be said that 'Taker's best matches were in this last phase of his career. J.R. said that 'Taker has surpassed Andre in levels of respect and in the best big man discussion. 'Taker took a gimmick, that like most back then, was complete shit and he made that gimmick into the all time best. 'Taker has defeated the three biggest names in the history of wrestling and he defeated two of them for WWE Championships. While yes it can be said that 'Taker, historically, didn't fair well in first encounters with bigger men, however, those were in feud situations. 'Taker always came out the winner at the end of the feud. I think in a one off, 'Taker would stand a better chance then most are giving him. It's not as cut and dry as you guys are saying.

I just wanted to get that off my chest. Every year I have to read about how 'Taker isn't a draw and blah blah blah and it's bullshit. Having said all of that, however, because of his name and who he is, I think Andre would win.

Vote Andre.

 

[L@RISANO]

I'm biased in this one alongwith the Samoan votes( ) and the Undertaker is the reason I started to watch wrestling and is my All-Time Fav, never to be surpassed.

All logic and reasoning flies out the window in this one when it comes to my favourite.


Vote Undertaker.

 

[Bernkastel]

The problem here Norcal, is that people are incapable of doing that where 'Taker is concerned. With him the argument against him is your standard, "He never was the number 1 guy so he automatically isn't a draw". What a load of horse shit. They don't call 'Taker the cornerstone of the WWE for nothing or the foundation of the WWE. I bet if people added up just the crowds that he's wrestled for at all of his Wrestlemania appearances that that number may be fairly equal to or even greater than the number of people that Andre has wrestled in front of for his entire career.

It's not. Mania in 30 years has drawn less than 2 million total people to live events. Andre for sure wrestled in front of more than that over his entire career. Regional stars like Whipper Watson drew 5 million alone. And Andre was a bigger draw than most regional stars. That's the general consensus on this board anyway.

Then you gotta figure Taker wasn't the one drawing those huge 60,000-70,000 audiences. He was a cog in the machine. And BECAUSE he wasn't ever a top star means he wasn't necessarily a big cog either. Not for a large part of his career. So the consistency is not there. Not compared to Andre.

 

[Nate DaMac]

They don't call 'Taker the cornerstone of the WWE for nothing or the foundation of the WWE.

Yes, that's exactly they do. It's a buzzword. Saying he's the cornerstone is laughable because that implies that the show wouldn't work without him. I would have and it did on several occasions. He wasn't the cornerstone, he was an important cog in the wheel.

That said, I'm voting for Taker. I find Andre to be totally unwatchable in any era. I don't give a shit how much he drew in the 70s. These were the same people who thought The Bee Gees were good.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Andre is a total scaredy cat. Undertaker is the most terrifying man in wrestling history. Legitimately, all Undertaker has to do is being out a snake and then Andre will run away.

TLC stands for Tables, Ladders, and Cornsnakes today. Andre is the most overrated guy ever, Undertaker has somehow become massively underrated.

Vote Undertaker or Die. (And in this case, Taker will be the one who kills you.)

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Yes, that's exactly they do. It's a buzzword. Saying he's the cornerstone is laughable because that implies that the show wouldn't work without him. I would have and it did on several occasions. He wasn't the cornerstone, he was an important cog in the wheel.

That said, I'm voting for Taker. I find Andre to be totally unwatchable in any era. I don't give a shit how much he drew in the 70s. These were the same people who thought The Bee Gees were good.

Pre disco Bee Gees were great. How dare you, sir.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Andre, I mean look where this is is and Andre might decimate him here to be honest. That 70s early 80s Andre is fast, agile and brutal. Taker has met his match. I thnk Taker has lost the only TLC he has been in with Edge, cant be arsed to check but I remember his splendidly going through stacked tables.

Andre here.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Yes, that's exactly they do. It's a buzzword. Saying he's the cornerstone is laughable because that implies that the show wouldn't work without him. I would have and it did on several occasions. He wasn't the cornerstone, he was an important cog in the wheel.

That said, I'm voting for Taker. I find Andre to be totally unwatchable in any era. I don't give a shit how much he drew in the 70s. These were the same people who thought The Bee Gees were good.

I still think the Bee Gees were good, coming from an 80's kid, lol.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

I'll be honest, I'm on the fence on this one. I really don't have an argument for or against Andre or Taker in this one. I plan on reading everyone's arguments, before I make my vote.

I will say this though. Andre and Taker, to me, are the two greatest Giant wrestlers in the history of pro wrestling, bar none.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Pre disco Bee Gees were great. How dare you, sir.

Disco Bee Gees were great too! "Jive Talkin," "You Should Be Dancing," "Stayin' Alive," "Night Fever." No one can resist those songs. NO ONE!

 

[nightmare]

Those songs are fucking stupid & discussing disco in an Undertaker thread will cause the ghost of Paul Bearer to take a phantom dump on your pillow.



I am going with personal preference here & voting Taker. Both would take a beating I'm sure, but I can see Taker keeping Andre down long enough to climb the ladder with that glazed over look in his eyes like old people do when their Alzheimer's kicks in in the cafeteria dessert line. In a bewildered stupor, Taker goes on pure instinct & grabs the tapioca, I mean briefcase.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

I can get the point of Andre winning, but I'm sure Undertaker takes this one. His participation in TLC/Ladder matches is small, but at least it's experience. Edge may have beat him in what I remember being his only TLC match, but he beat Jeff Hardy in a Ladder Match, teamed with Kane to defeat the Dudleyz in a Tables match & has a win over Batista in a Chairs match. Surely, when you put together all 3 into one major match, there's an instant edge?

Yeah, Edge had the assistance of about 4 people to get the win over Undertaker, so what kind of good is that? Andre has not got two idiot Andre-heads, a sexual relationship with Vickie Guerrero & Chavo by his side either. This screams out to me as the kinda match where Andre gets worn down by the Deadman with his quick, heavy landing punches. A Hell's Gate submission (as the potential of hitting finishers that involve lifting could be a challenge) to really take Andre out, followed by an ascent up the ladder to grab the briefcase means that I vote Taker.

 

[Bernkastel]

Those songs are fucking stupid & discussing disco in an Undertaker thread will cause the ghost of Paul Bearer to take a phantom dump on your pillow.



I am going with personal preference here & voting Taker. Both would take a beating I'm sure, but I can see Taker keeping Andre down long enough to climb the ladder with that glazed over look in his eyes like old people do when their Alzheimer's kicks in in the cafeteria dessert line. In a bewildered stupor, Taker goes on pure instinct & grabs the tapioca, I mean briefcase.

In that case Verne Gagne should have beaten Austin since he actually did kill a man in the nursing home. The only thing Undy is going to catch is a Tombstone Piledriver for his troubles, which Andre used and made relevant years before Taker.

Undertaker sits on the floor with this look on his face...

... as Andre climbs the ladder.

Vote Andre.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Georgy is gonna kiss me for this but look at this phenomenal record in Andre's prime

United States WWWF MSG Show (Nov '78)
Nov 20th 1978 Andre The Giant Def. Ernie Ladd
United States WWWF MSG Show (Aug '78)
Aug 28th 1978 Andre The Giant & Dino Bravo & Tony Garea Def. (Pin) Spiros Arion & Yukon Eric & Yukon Pierre 6-Man Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Jun '78)
Jun 26th 1978 Andre The Giant & Ivan Putski Def. Billy Graham & Luke Graham
United States WWWF MSG Show (Mar '78)
Mar 20th 1978 Andre The Giant & Dusty Rhodes & Mil Mascaras Def. Ken Patera & Mr. Fuji & Professor Toru Tanaka 6-Man Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Jun '77)
Jun 27th 1977 Andre The Giant & Chief Jay Strongbow Def. (Pin) Ken Patera & Nikolai Volkoff Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Dec '76)
Dec 20th 1976 Andre The Giant & Dominic DeNucci Def. Executioner #1 & Executioner #2
United States WWWF MSG Show (Oct '76 #2)
Oct 25th 1976 Andre The Giant & Billy White Wolf & Chief Jay Strongbow Def. (Pin) Bruiser Brody & Executioner #1 & Executioner #2 6-Person Tag (3 Out Of 5 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Sep '76)
Sep 4th 1976 Andre The Giant & Billy White Wolf & Chief Jay Strongbow Def. Executioner #1 & Executioner #2 & Stan Hansen 6-Person Tag (3 Out Of 5 Falls)
United States WWWF Showdown At Shea '76
Jun 25th 1976 Andre The Giant Def. (CO) Chuck Wepner Boxer Vs. Wrestler
United States WWWF MSG Show (Apr '76)
Apr 26th 1976 Andre The Giant Def. (CO) Ernie Ladd
United States WWWF MSG Show (Mar '76 #2)
Mar 29th 1976 Andre The Giant & Ivan Putski Def. Bugsy McGraw & Ernie Ladd
United States WWWF MSG Show (Sep '75)
Sep 6th 1975 Blackjack Lanza & Blackjack Mulligan Draw Andre The Giant & Francisco Flores
United States WWWF MSG Show (Aug '75)
Aug 9th 1975 Andre The Giant & Verne Gagne Def. Jimmy Valiant & Johnny Valiant Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Jul '75)
Jul 12th 1975 Andre The Giant Def. Butcher Vachon
United States WWWF MSG Show (Oct '74)
Oct 7th 1974 Andre The Giant & Victor Rivera Def. Killer Kowalski & Strong Kobayashi
United States WWWF MSG Show (Aug '74)
Aug 26th 1974 Andre The Giant Def. (CO) Killer Kowalski
United States WWWF MSG Show (Apr '74 #2)
Apr 29th 1974 Andre The Giant & Chief Jay Strongbow Def. Don Leo Jonathan & Otto Von Heller Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF Philadelphia Show (Dec '73 #1)
Dec 1st 1973 Andre The Giant & Chief Jay Strongbow & Victor Rivera Def. Blackjack Lanza & Mr. Fuji & Professor Toru Tanaka 6-Person Tag
United States WWWF MSG Show (Nov '73)
Nov 12th 1973 Andre The Giant & Chief Jay Strongbow Def. Blackjack Lanza & Stan Stasiak Tag (2 Out Of 3 Falls)
United States WWWF MSG Show (Oct '73)
Oct 15th 1973 Andre The Giant Def. Blackjack Lanza
United States WWWF MSG Show (Apr '73)
Apr 30th 1973 Andre The Giant Def. Professor Toru Tanaka
United States WWWF MSG Show (Mar '73)
Mar 26th 1973 Andre The Giant Def. Buddy Wolfe

tl;dr? No problemo. He never lost and I mean NEVER lost in the WWWF which is made, paid and engraved at MSG. Guess where this match is being held...

Spoiler

Boys, lets leave our Taker love at the door. I know its hard, I know its sad, Echelon is playing the worlds smallest violin while George Steele's Barber might actually be fapping at the thought that Andre actually might win this; Andre should win this comprehensive-fucking-bruce-chun-brian-lee!

 

[Blade]

Aw, man. This hurts for me because I love the Undertaker. To be honest, who doesn't love the Undertaker?

But Andre was on a whole other level, both as a kayfabe monster and a non-kayfabe draw and performer. The Undertaker is, to this day, pretty incredible, but Andre the Giant was the Eighth Wonder of the World, who should beat anyone not named Hulk Hogan in this tournament.

Andre for me.

 

[L@RISANO]

Aw, man. This hurts for me because I love the Undertaker. To be honest, who doesn't love the Undertaker?

But Andre was on a whole other level, both as a kayfabe monster and a non-kayfabe draw and performer. The Undertaker is, to this day, pretty incredible, but Andre the Giant was the Eighth Wonder of the World, who should beat anyone not named Hulk Hogan in this tournament.

Andre for me.

Does that mean Yokozuna would beat Andre then?

 

[Lowdown]

I like both guys, but I'm giving the edge to Taker. I'd this were a singles match, I'd say it was dead even. Thing is, for a match like this, you'd have to be agile and take some big spots. Andre was no slouch, and he'd overpower Taker throughout the match. But I imagine if the Giant took a huge tumble off the ladder through some tables, he might not be able to answer the bell.