WWE Region, Dallas Region, First Round: (9) AJ Styles vs. (24) Big Daddy

Discussion in 'WWE Region' started by Tastycles, Apr 18, 2012.

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Who Wins This Match?

  1. AJ Styles

  2. Big Daddy

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    It isn't irrelevant, especially in the context of a supposed legend. When do "legends" that "don't" lose, lose? Usually outside their country in the opponents home country. AJ has wrestled in Texas before and is a southerner. The only way AJ loses this match is if he actually was a jobber at his prime and that is ludicrous. Some british guy comes to Texas and squashes one of the tops guys in the southern region? Don't see it.
     
    #76
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  2. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Well said, but without the AJs and HBKs, a Hogan or Austin would only go so long if they squashed all before them and this is my issue with Big Daddy. Hogan level popularity for a while but when he came up against a rival promotion full of AJs and the WWF his promotion went to the wall in double quick time.

    There is no opinion or review, it just lists the dates and champs, so I'm pretty confident of it's accuracy (plus it ties in with other available info). As for your quoted line, it lists the histories for both belts but then does pigeonhole Crabtree's version for it's dubiousness. Thank's for the praise though, I'm enjoying the debate too and there are some great members involved!
     
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  3. Vega

    Vega ^______^

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    I don't know if I can find all house show cards and venues, but one doesn't need to wrestle in a town to be over there.

    Take AJ in his prime and BD in his prime and let them wrestle in Dallas, Texas. Who is more over, so for which man does it make more sense to go over? In the UK people would clearly want to see Big Daddy win, but in Texas I think Styles.
     
    #78
  4. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Ted DiBiase never won any titles at all, so you better not vote for him. Crabtree won three titles, at a time when there were few. He won tag matches when he was about 60. Andre The Giant also spent his twilight years in cameo tag matches, was he really successful?

    Wrestlers are pretty much measured by mainstream appeal. You don't get much more mainstream than that.

    1) King Kong Bundy, a man who headlined WrestleMania 2 and in doing so helped draw more viewers than the entire cumulative main event PPV career of AJ Styles has repeatedly stated that he was influenced by Big Daddy, and not just his name.

    2) How many people are going to be able to copy the style of a man that literally won a Guinness World Record for the size of his chest?


    You keep saying this. I'll give you two points. You can decide which one to use to be proven wrong by.

    1) The business started going under when Big Daddy retired. If your biggest draw retires or leaves, you start losing business. See WWE post Hogan, WCW circa 1992 etc.

    2)
    So when Big Daddy had "run wrestling out of business" it was still drawing twice the audience that TNA has ever achieved, in a country a sixth of the size.

    Hulk Hogan's "wrestling" ability has been questioned a thousand times, yet he was able to get over. John Cena too. And Austin. And the Rock. And the Ultimate Warrior. And Batista. So that's be some of the biggest draws of all time, and all of them would shit on AJ Styles.

    They have far more instances of big guys fucking decimating little guys. Some of the feuds you mentioned are included in that. The Great Khali is from India, can't speak English and is about as charismatic as my bollock, but has been a World Champion in WWE, something AJ would never be. The crowd react to what a wrestler does, not where they are from. Otherwise Koko B. Ware would have been more popular than Andre the Giant.
     
    #79
  5. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    Yeah because that's the only way someone that's only 19 can learn about someone from the past. You sound completely ignorant. It's not impossible to know how big of an influence Big Daddy is over in the UK. Just because your brain isn't fully developed enough to know anything about Big Daddy doesn't mean anyone else can't. Yeah, there's absolutely no way I could've stumbled upon Big Daddy a few years ago after researching his match with Giant Haystacks. There's no way I didn't try and create him in svr09. There's just no way I could know about anything after 1992 because there's no such thing as a computer, or youtube or the internet. :rolleyes:

    Big Daddy goes over AJ here easily. AJ success in the wrestling business isn't that impressive to begin with, let alone compared to Big Daddy's.
     
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  6. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Again, the BHC win is about as legit as Kurt Angle's IWGP reign and when you look at the histories of the Crabtree's European reigns... well, you know he won the belt twice but that's about it. DiBiase won many titles in his career and they're far better documented, plus he wasn't pushed continuosly as their top star. Andre won the WWF Title he only appeared sporadically in these tag matches, plus he was never pushed continuously as their top star. Throw in that Crabtree had a fifteen year sabbatical and the personas either side of the break have no relation to each other either physically, intellectually or even memorably (nobody in Britain would have any idea who the Blond Adonis was) and that he was pushed as the top star continuously as the top star.

    True, but again this is tempered by the fact that he was the star of a program in a Primetime spot with no competition. Once competition raised it's head, Daddy's career went bust. I was just started in Secondary (High) School when the WWF started alternating with Big Daddy's show and the derision that was felt for him compared to Hogan et al was immeasurable (in fact there was a rumor going that British Wrestling was fake but the WWF was real:lmao:).

    "Helped"? C'mon Tasty, there's a reason why the Miz was getting comparisons to Big Daddy Bundy this year for his fall from grace from headlining the previous year. Are you really telling me that it wouldn't have done as well (probably better) if it had been some other monster heel on the roster?

    Which needs taken with a pinch of salt considering there was already a record at that time of 124 inches held by Robert Earl Hughes, substantially exceeding Crabtree's 64".

    You're timing is slightly off there, Crabtree retired from wrestling in '93. His company was forced to share TV time with All Star Wrestling (featuring many former guys from his promotion tired of the Crabtrees) and the WWF in '85 and booted completely in '88.

    Where is this stat from? While they had some events in the Wembley Arena at their peak, they where more famous for touring bingo halls and holiday camps.

    And all of their abilities eclipsed Big Daddy's whose conditioning was so poor his solo matches only ever lasted a matter of minutes.

    And they all have a far more devastating arsenal than Big Daddy that they demonstrated in any victories over far longer periods than he can go. AJ is three inches shorter than Crabtree with a good physique, he'd be treated as the underdog but he'd hardly be causing any suspension of disbelief at overcoming him.
     
    #81
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  7. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    So what are you saying here? Big Daddy was more of a star than Andre the Giant? His title reign is completely legitimate, and if you want to start talking about illegitimate reigns, again you better do so in threads about Flair and Harley Race. When Andre was past it, he basically only tagged with Haku, that's it. Big Daddy did the same thing.

    The only reason people are pushed continuously as the top star in a successful company is because they are the best. These tournaments look at a wrestler's entire career to weigh up their whole CV, and Crabtree's is the best.

    Also, it was made abundantly clear that Crabtree had been around for years and they often used his real name:

    [​IMG]

    And pointed out he was blond:

    [​IMG]

    Note how much less of a fat bastard he looks in that picture.

    You keep saying this, but there was always sport on BBC on - often rugby - and he out drew this. I'll say this, if it wasn't a draw, why did ITV retain it when they got rid of all other World of Sport programming? Still, it was doing 6 million viewers on Saturday lunchtime - not prime time - which is still more than double what TNA has ever drawn.

    Tell me this, if he and the show weren't popular in their own right, why is the programming still being shown on Sky now? If it wasn't popular in it's own right, why are people writing plays about it?

    http://www.thepublic.com/events/big-daddy-vs-giant-haystacks

    Why did nothing else on World of Sport draw this kind of audience?

    I can't help but think you've misremembered this or are inflating the opinion of you and your friends to represent the entire nation. WWF programming featured in the slot 6 times in the two and a half years between World of Sport stopping and wrestling moving out on it's own, as it were, and December 1988 when it was sacked off completely. WWE never had a consistent broadcast in this country until Sky was launched in 1989. And like I said, if your career going bust means having twice the audience that TNA had in it's highest rated segment of it's highest rated show, I'd take bankruptcy happily.


    Look, we're not arguing the merits of King Kong Bundy, but the fact remains that a wrestler who was once very popular has taken his lead from Big Daddy.

    Whatever, the fact of the matter is few people have had his physique so few could wrestle like him.

    But the company went out of business in 1995. When it was taken off the air, it was still popular, just not as popular as it had been in 1980. When Big Daddy drew 18 million viewers. AJ Styles struggles to draw a tenth of that, in a much bigger market.

    Television audience. But you're right to say Big Daddy sold out Wembley Arena, which TNA failed to do. They also used to tour provincial theatres, almost all of which are bigger than the Impact Zone.

    This is just bollocks. The Ultimate Warrior's matches were short, as indeed were most of those wrestlers. It's as if the best people don't take long to win.

    The Warrior's finisher is the same as Big Daddy's. Hulk Hogan's finisher is a leg drop. The Rock's finisher is an elbow drop. Need I say more about devastating arsenal? I can't believe you're trying to use the fact that Big Daddy was so good that beat people quickly as a reason that he would lose!

    Except nobody ever did over come him, did they? People aren't booked as the underdog against faces anyway, it defeats the point. AJ would go down, like everyone else did, and probably quickly.

    I am only responding to you, as you are evidently the only pro-Styles person arguing from any point of knowledge, however I do think that's perhaps part of the problem. Being 38, you're old enough to remember Big Daddy the fat tag team wrestler, but probably too young to remember the feuds that endeared him to the nation at their height - Nagasaki and Haystacks predominantly. I'm not saying this as an attack at all, but I guess you think of that fat man first, in the same way that I think of Ric Flair as being an embarrassing has been.
     
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  8. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    Are you really trying to tell me this bold part is an original thought?

    I hope not because you aren't the only one that read Rikidozan's wikipedia entry.

    Now who looks ignorant.

    It still ties back to all you seem to be able to express is that this guy supposedly is a legend and thus he should win. Still no one can explain why he actually is a legend and that is what many have called people out on. If you knew anything about him you would have said it by now or would not have made your sole statement about him in your original post something from wikipedia. You don't know he is a legend, someone told you he was and you went along with it. Now pressed to defend something you thought was true you realized there is little information about the guy when it comes to actually wrestling as a main event singles competitor so you just regurgitate the original idea you bought into with hopes others will blindly follow instead of asking the pertinent questions you never thought to. The more I hear about this guy from people that actually did their research I realize he sounds like a Kamala much more than an Andre.
     
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  9. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I think it's pretty clear why he is a legend. You don't seem to understand that sustained popularity is the only thing that really matters when you are comparing the success of wrestlers because it is the only thing that is real and cannot be faked. We know Hulk Hogan is better than Crimson because more people liked him. If we did it on % of matches won, things would be different. If we did it on World Championships won, then Vince Russo and David Arquette are superior workers to Ted DiBiase. If we did it on "technical wrestling ability" whatever that even means, then someone like Dean Malenko would be considered better than Dusty Rhodes. None of that is true.

    If you walked into a pub in England and said "who's Big Daddy?" they would say "wrestler from the 80s". If you said "Who's AJ Styles?" they'd say "Doesn't he play for Rotherham?" or something else equally ignorant. Big Daddy is a household name, 24 years after he stopped being on television every week. I've just asked my flatmate, aged 24, who Big Daddy is, and he gave a full answer.

    [YOUTUBE]ZUwDnlxy7Qc[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]ahDnLmLZsoY[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]ntoo1lqP3q4[/YOUTUBE]

    Do people still sing Kamala's chants 20 years after he stopped being on TV at unrelated events? Did Kamala even have chants? Didn't think so.

    There's plenty of information about his main event singles competition, there's not much video, because people tended not to upload video to YouTube in 1976.

    But lets look at some old posters shall we, because then we can decide if a) he had a big billing and b) if he won those matches...

    [​IMG]

    Rex Strong. Beat him.


    [​IMG]

    Kendo Nagasaki. This match was a draw, but he ultimately unmasked him. Notice "the best of today's TV stars".

    [​IMG]

    Ringer, beat him too.

    [​IMG]

    John Wilson. Beat him.

    [​IMG]

    Dave Bond, another win.

    I'm getting bored of this, shall we just look at some results?

    7/2/77 – CHELTENHAM v Gil Singh W
    8/2/77 – HEMEL HEMPSTEAD v Gil Singh W
    9/2/77 – EASTBOURNE v Steve Veidor L
    11/2/77 – PICKETTS LOCK v Johnny Yearsley W
    12/2/77 – BELLE VUE v Kojak Kirk W
    18/2/77 – LIVERPOOL v Wild Angus W
    19/2/77 – NEWARK v Magnificent Maurice/Tally Ho Kaye W
    22/2/77 – CHELMSFORD v Gypsy Smith W
    24/2/77 – BRIGHTON v Bruiser Muir W
    28/2/77 – PRESTON v Wild Angus W
    1/3/77 – WOLVERHAMPTON v Bruiser Muir W
    2/3/77 – LEAMINGTON SPA v Rex Strong W
    3/3/77 – NOTTINGHAM v Masked Assassin W
    5/3/77 – HANLEY v Wild Angus Double DQ
    7/3/77 – TUNBRIDGE WELLS v John Elijah W
    8/3/77 – HEMEL HEMPSTEAD v Lee Bronson W
    9/3/77 – BUXTON TV v Brian Hunt W
    10/3/77 – GRAVESEND v Colin Joynson W
    12/3/77 – BELLE VUE v Al Martin W
    14/3/77 – BRADFORD v Rex Strong W
    15/3/77 – WOLVERHAMPTON v Rex Strong W
    17/3/77 – DIGBETH v Wild Angus L
    19/3/77 – HANLEY v Terry Rudge W
    21/3/77 – HALIFAX with Kung Fu v Masked Assassins W
    23/3/77 – LEICESTER v Banger Walsh W
    24/3/77 – KEIGHLEY v Gil Singh W
    28/3/77 – FOLKESTONE v John Elijah
    29/3/77 – DIGBETH v Banger Walsh W
    31/3/77 – LEEDS v Jim Palmer W
    3/4/77 – KIRKBY IN ASHFIELD v Terry O’Neill W
    4/4/77 – BRADFORD v Masked UFO W
    5/4/77 – LEAMINGTON SPA TV v Al Martin W
    7/4/77 – PRESTON with Kung Fu v Great Bula/Masked UFO W
    13/4/77 – MARGATE v Johnny Czeslaw W
    14/4/77 – GRAVESEND v Johnny Czeslaw W
    19/4/77 – SOLIHULL v Masked UFO W
    20/4/77 – MIDDLETON v Rex Strong W
    22/4/77 – LIVERPOOL v Rex Strong W
    24/4/77 – CLEETHORPES v Great Bula W
    25/4/77 – HAMILTON v Count Bartelli NC
    29/4/77 – CHESTER v Roy St.Clair W
    2/5/77 – CHELTENHAM v John Elijah W
    3/5/77 – CHELMSFORD v Bob Kirkwood W
    4/5/77 – IPSWICH v John Elijah W
    5/5/77 – BRISTOL v Colin Joynson W
    9/5/77 – SHREWSBURY v Roy St.Clair W
    10/5/77 – OAKENGATES v Colin Joynson W
    11/5/77 – LINCOLN v Great Bula W
    12/5/77 – BRIERLEY HILL v Terry O’Neill W
    14/5/77 – BELLE VUE v The Maori W
    16/5/77 – HALIFAX v Colin Joynson W
    18/5/77 – BANBURY v John Elijah W
    19/5/77 – BRIGHTON v John Elijah W
    20/5/77 – CHATHAM v John Elijah W
    21/5/77 – NEWARK v Phil Pearson W
    23/5/77 – HARROGATE v Mike Dean W
    24/5/77 – WOLVERHAMPTON v Brian Hunt W
    25/5/77 – LEICESTER v The Ringer W (Ladder match)
    27/5/77 – LIVERPOOL v Great Bula W
    28/5/77 – HANLEY v Ron Allcard W
    30/5/77 – TUNBRIDGE WELLS v Rex Strong W
    31/5/77 – CROYDON v Rex Strong W
    1/6/77 – GREAT YARMOUTH v Gypsy Smith W
    2/6/77 – BRISTOL v John Elijah W
    4/6/77 – RHYL v Sandy Scott W
    8/6/77 – BUXTON v Mike Dean W
    10/6/77 – LIVERPOOL v Mike Dean W
    13/6/77 – BRIDLINGTON v Tony St.Clair NC
    15/6/77 – YORK v Mike Dean W
    18/6/77 – HANLEY v Banger Walsh/Mike Dean W
    19/6/77 – CLEEHTORPES v Colin Joynson W
    22/6/77 – CARDIFF v John Elijah W
    24/6/77 – BEDWORTH v Gypsy Smith W
    28/6/77 – WOLVERHAMPTON v Al Martin W
    29/6/77 – SOUTHPORT v Rex Strong W
    6/7/77 – YORK v Giant Haystacks W
    10/7/77 – CLEETHORPES v Giant Haystacks W
    14/7/77 – MALVERN v John Elijah W
    20/7/77 – SOUTHPORT TV v Sandy Scott W
    25/7/77 – BRIDLINGTON v Tony St.Clair L
    28/7/77 – MORECAMBE v Roy St.Clair W
    31/7/77 – BLACKPOOL v Banger Walsh W
    6/8/77 – HANLEY with Bobby Ryan v Bronco Wells/John Kowalski W
    10/8/77 – SKEGNESS TV v Colin Joynson W
    21/8/77 – BLACKPOOL v Sandy Scott W
    1/9/77 – DIGBETH v Dr Death W
    3/9/77 – HANLEY v John Kowalski W
    4/9/77 – CLEETHORPES v Detroit Donovan W
    6/9/77 – SOLIHULL v Tony St.Clair NC
    7/9/77 – LEAMINGTON SPA v Banger Walsh W
    8/9/77 – DIGBETH v Steve Logan W
    9/9/77 – BLACKBURN v Steve Logan W
    12/9/77 – LEICESTER KO v Banger Walsh W
    14/9/77 – LINCOLN v Banger Walsh W
    15/9/77 – GLASGOW v Dr Death W
    16/9/77 – HEREFORD v Giant Haystacks W
    27/9/77 – CHELMSFORD v John Elijah W
    28/9/77 – STEVENAGE v John Elijah W
    30/9/77 – BEDWORTH v John Elijah W
    1/10/77 – BELLE VUE v Banger Walsh W
    2/10/77 – BLACKPOOL v Dr Death W
    3/10/77 – BRADFORD v Dr Death W
    4/10/77 – SOLIHULL v Giant Haystacks W
    8/10/77 – HANLEY v Masked Outlaw W
    11/10/77 – HEMEL HEMPSTEAD v Butcher Bond W
    13/10/77 – BRIGHTON v John Elijah W
    14/10/77 – ST.ALBANS v Johnny Kincaid W
    17/10/77 – BRADFORD v Giant Haystacks L
    26/10/77 – CHESTER TV v Giant Haystacks NC
    28/10/77 – BEDWORTH v Mr Big W
    29/10/77 – MAIDENHEAD v John Elijah W
    30/10/77 – KIRKBY IN ASHFIELD v Banger Walsh W
    2/11/77 – BUXTON v Steve Logan W
    7/11/77 – AYLESBURY TV v John Elijah W
    11/11/77 – NEWARK v Banger Walsh W
    14/11/77 – DERBY v Terry O’Neill W
    16/11/77 – WOKING v Butcher Bond W
    19/11/77 – ROCHDALE v Banger Walsh W
    22/11/77 – BLACKBURN v Masked UFO W
    24/11/77 – NOTTINGHAM v Masked Outlaw W
    27/11/77 – CLEETHORPES v Masked Outlaw W
    30/11/77 – ROYAL ALBERT HALL v Sandy Scott W
    1/12/77 – BRISTOL v Detroit Donovan W
    2/12/77 – CARDIFF v Detroit Donovan W
    3/12/77 – HANLEY v Giant Haystacks L
    4/12/77 – CLEETHORPES v Giant Haystacks NC
    5/12/77 – DARLINGTON v Masked Outlaw W
    10/12/77 – BELLE VUE KO v Hillbilly Hell-on W v Detroit Donovan L
    12/12/77 – TUNBRIDGE WELLS v Sandy Scott W
    14/12/77 – HASTINGS v Detroit Donovan W
    15/12/77 – PETERBOROUGH v Detroit Donovan W
    16/12/77 – PICKETTS LOCK v John Elijah W
    17/12/77 – HUDDERSFIELD KO v Ron Allcard W v Masked Outlaw DKO
    19/12/77 – HALIFAX v Masked Outlaw W
    22/12/77 – DIGBETH v Masked Outlaw W
    30/12/77 – HANLEY KO v Giant Haystacks L
    4/1/78 – LINCOLN v Giant Haystacks W
    5/1/78 – DIGBETH v Banger Walsh W
    11/1/78 – LEICESTER v Masked Outlaw W
    26/1/78 – WINSFORD v Banger Walsh W
    31/1/78 – HATFIELD v Butcher Bond W
    1/2/78 – BATH v John Elijah W
    2/2/78 – RICKMANSWORTH v John Elijah W
    3/2/78 – CHATHAM v Bronco Wells W
    13/2/78 – CATFORD v Bronco Wells W
    14/2/78 – CHELMSFORD v Bronco Wells W
    15/2/78 – BANBURY v Bull Schmidt W
    28/2/78 – PRESTON v Banger Walsh W
    2/3/78 – NOTTINGHAM v Blackjack Mulligan W
    7/3/78 – SOLIHULL KO v Rex Strong W v Banger Walsh W
    8/3/78 – BUXTON v Kojak Kirk W
    9/3/78 – GLASGOW with Tony St.Clair v Kojak Kirk/Colin Joynson W
    16/3/78 – DIGBETH v Banger Walsh W
    17/3/78 – CHESTER v Kojak Kirk W
    18/3/78 – NEWARK v Masked Outlaw W
    19/3/78 – CLEETHORPES v Kojak Kirk W
    20/3/78 – TUNBRIDGE WELLS v Butcher Bond W
    22/3/78 – LEICESTER TV v Kojak Kirk W
    24/3/78 – PICKETTS LOCK v Kojak Kirk W
    25/3/78 – SEYMOUR HALL, LONDON KO v Kojak Kirk W v Butcher Bond W
    28/3/78 – BEDFORD KO v Steve Logan W v John Elijah W
    29/3/78 – BATH v Colin Joynson W
    3/4/78 – CREWE v Brian Hunt W
    5/4/78 – BLACKBURN TV v Banger Walsh W
    7/4/78 – CHESTER v Giant Haystacks W
    17/4/78 – DERBY v Banger Walsh W
    21/4/78 – CARDIFF v Giant Haystacks L
    22/4/78 – NEWCASTLE v Banger Walsh W
    24/4/78 – CHELTENHAM KO v Banger Walsh W v John Elijah W
    25/4/78 – HATFIELD KO v Bruiser Muir W v Wayne Bridges W

    This proves quite a lot. Firstly, he wrestled as a singles competitor a lot. The Ws are all wins by the way, so we can see that in these 13 months alone, he had literally 100s of wins. Secondly, he won a ladder match. That doesn't sound like someone who can't handle agility etc. Thirdly, bear in mind that I removed the matches where the result is unknown and the tag matches, and you can see that he was basically wrestling every single day, often two or three times in a night. What does that mean? Well it means that he is a lot less unfit than you are all saying. Fourthly, the only man to have beaten him more than once is Giant Haystacks. Someone bigger than him, and almost as popular. AJ is neither.
     
    #84
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  10. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    Has anyone disputed that people in England know who this guy is? There are plenty of places this guy isn't a household name. I don't think it is controversial to suggest Dallas isn one of them. If this match was in England we would likely give it to you but it isn't. Thus, your anecdotes about people you talked to both actually, and merely theoretically, are at best a small, borderline insignificant, piece of the puzzle.

    As for a) though he was certainly not top billed. Nagasaki clearly was which becomes more important once we talk about him more later with less glossed over details. Also, why should I care that he beat Rex Strong?

    Yes he unmasked him ultimately and proceeded to immediately lose the match after that. I get the feeling this was one of his biggest feuds and he didn't even come out on top of it and Nagasaki was only 6'2".

    Dual top billing and why should I care he beat Ringer? You know what the top returned search is when I google Big daddy vs the ringer? Big Daddy V wikipedia.

    At least we finally have one that meets both your criteria. Too bad I don't see any reason AJ wouldn't prevail in a match with Tarzan.

    Agreed on the boredom.

    This also proves that as a singles competitor he certainly did lose. It also shows that Haystacks won more than he did in this sample. If he is supposed to be the man, why is there someone that clearly appears to be better here? I don't understand the logic of putting someone over based on crowds thousands of miles away from where the match is actually taking place enjoying their chant, which is what this seems to boil down to here. I do thank you for actually providing something beyond "he is legendz" and have no problem with you voting for your hometown hero.
     
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  11. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    Ok, explain to the few who have never heard of Big Daddy, how popular he was and is in England? What's the first thing you'd say? You'd more than likely compare to him to someone most people have heard of. I'm not saying it was completely original, but that doens't make it any less true.
    Still you. Because you haven't ever talked to me, our paths have never crossed. You don't know what kind of wrestling knowledge I have. You based your opinion on something wikipedia said and you think I don't know shit about the subject. As I've said, I've done my research on big daddy roughly three years ago when I came across one of his matches on Youtube.
    I guess that's why I've quoted maybe two posts during this entire tournament. I know plenty about Booker T and Christian yet I made two posts during that entire thread.
    Benjamin Franklin isn't a US historical figure. Michael Jackson isn't a legend. According to you, you can't learn anything from the internet. Tell me, how is it possible to know anything about anything without someone telling you about it or you researching it.
    You mean all the shit that Tasty posted isn't enough information about him? There's plenty of information about him. It looks to me that you didn't do shit research before making your decision to blindly vote for AJ. I guess I should've copied his OWW profile or something. Maybe everyone who has never heard of Big Daddy will love to hear how he won the British Heavyweight Championship instead of comparing him to someone everyone on the board knows.

    Read above. In the later part of his career, why do you think he was put into tag matches so much? He was incredibly out of shape, why not just retire? Mainly because he was so popular. If you loko up British wrestling influence, Big Daddy is there. Do your own research. There are plenty of sites to look at.
     
    #86
  12. Peoples_Champ

    Peoples_Champ Bra & Panties match winner & NEW...

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    In four hours, we end the farce that is Big Daddy's participation in this tournament. A big fish in a small pond, he was huge in England apparently. But the truth remains - he could not beat AJ Styles on these boards or in kayfabe either.

    So long Big Daddy. May your legend never be forgotten by these ass clowns who are obsessed with you for some reason.
     
    #87
  13. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    Tell me these reasons why Big Daddy couldn't beat AJ Styles since you seem so convinced and you talk about him being a big fish in a small pond. Styles can barely be a medium fish in a small pond for the past five or so years. Why should Styles win?
     
    #88
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  14. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    It's going to be a travesty if AJ Styles picks up a victory over a clear/cut far more deserving opponent in Big Daddy. A mid-carder should not go over one of England's greatest competitors.


    Do the right thing and vote Big Daddy. See Tasty's post for reasons why you should. Guy doesn't lose.
     
    #89
  15. Vega

    Vega ^______^

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    His record shows that in bigger matches, yeah, he lost. Even against much smaller opponents. There's a reason he didn't hold a title after he came back - he was the biggest attraction, but the serious matches were the main events contested between guys that are mostly forgotten now.

    Look at the opponents Tasty posted:
    Bill Strong - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD (http://www.profightdb.com)
    Wayne Bridges - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD
    Rex Strong - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD
    Kendo Nagasaki - big feud, lost
    The Ringer - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD
    John Wilson - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD
    Dave Bond - no Wikipedia entry, not in the IWD

    When it went against the bigger names (who on a global scale are still footnotes) like Tony St. Clair, Loch Ness or Kendo Nagasaki, his record isn't dominant at all.

    Also, it should not be forgotten that his brother was the booker. I don't see him as the hometown hero who gives the kids something to smile about in this kind of match.

    If AJ wrestled in GB at that time, I'm sure he would not be a jobber that is fed to Daddy. He would be more like St. Clair or Nagasaki - guys Big Daddy lost against.
     
    #90
  16. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    First off, own what you did instead of trying to gloss over it. The comment was completely unoriginal. Second off, the validity of that statement has already been disputed by one of our resident Canadians. That is one of those interesting things that happens when you take an idea you didn't come up with yourself. Many times it isn't as accurate as you were duped into believing.

    I don't know you, correct. So I did this crazy thing where I judged you by the substance of what you provided. What is so ignorant about pointing out someone plagiarized their only "point" from a questionable source?

    This isn't a quantity argument. It is based on what you said when you did post. If you had extensive knowledge to back your opinion you would have provided an original thought with more substance. Something you still haven't done.

    Not my point at all. My point is that information exists to support those two things and I have experienced it organically as well. You found out about a match that the guy had against an opponent that Tasty has shown he was worse than over an extended period of time. How did that lead you to conclude he was a legend that could not be defeated?

    You mean all that shit Tasty posted in response to this post you are quoting? This isn't especially helping your campaign for supposedly at least partially being an independent thinker much either. I want to know why you believe that Big Daddy wins. Not why wikipedia or Tasty does. What did your "research" turn up? How does it all tie together?

    AJ Styles has owned Kurt Angle, a #4 seed in this tournament and beat Sting before, a #2 seed. He also has victories over plenty of other wrestlers in this tournament. Unless I am missing something the only person we have confirmed Big Daddy has beat before in a singles match in this tournament is a #29 seed that he wasn't even kayfabe better than for a significant time period. This is a big part of the reason that Big Daddy was correctly seeded significantly worse than AJ. Big Daddy got famous by having nobodies bounce off his belly. AJ isn't a nobody, in fact he has held his own with plenty of somebodies. Big Daddy was popular in England. What does that have to do with winning this match in the US?

    Hogan slammed Andre, Rikidozan beat Lou Thesz, who did Big Daddy beat to put him on that level?
     
    #91
  17. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    With less than an hour to go I guess I should get my post in. I've held off because I really didn't know anything about Big Daddy and even though he's been in TNA for ten years now I've only seen AJ wrestle a handful of times. I tried to do a little research on Big Daddy, and yes that was through wiki and youtube because honestly what else am I supposed to do? I waited this long to get my vote in and was really leaning toward Big Daddy thanks mostly to Tasty. I decided to vote AJ though. No disrespect intended to his fans but what I did see of Big Daddy just looked awful. I understand he was popular but the few matches I saw were terrible. I couldn't believe such a legend was so bad in the ring. He clearly made his name on charisma. He seemed to be an attraction that had some medicore guys bounce off his belly before falling on them for the victory. The fans were happy to just see him and sing his song or chant his chant that what happened between the bells didn't matter. He may not be the biggest name in this tournament by any stretch of the imagination but AJ Styles isn't exactly a nobody. I don't see him going out there and bouncing off Big Daddy just so the legend can get an easy win, especially in the US. Daddy can come out and wave to the fans and AJ can bounce off him for a bit but I see Daddy missing his splash and AJ capitalizing on that for the pin.
     
    #92
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  18. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    It's not as if AJ Styles is Dallas' favourite son though, is it? Nor has he ever been popular anywhere outside of the TNA bubble. The location, as I see it is irrelevant. If AJ Styles showed up on Raw in Texas, the audience wouldn't care, just as they haven't when other TNA stalwarts like Braden Walker and Marcus Cor Von showed up.

    So you have to look it from the outside.

    Which of the two has created popularity somewhere more than the other?


    This question is important, because the person who has fostered the most popularity is the most likely to be able to get the crowd onside. Big Daddy is the answer.

    Which type of Wrestler traditionally gets over easier in the WWE, Superheavyweights or Cruiserweights?


    It took Shawn Michaels 7 years to reach the main event. It took Yokozuna about 6 months. Even if Big Daddy had lower credentials than AJ, he would be more likely to get over with this audience based on the fact he looks so much more impressive.

    If you unmask a masked wrestler, you come out on top of the feud. That's how masked wrestling has worked for about 100 years. Also, Nagasaki was one of the most cynical heels there has ever been, while AJ is and has always been a terrible heel. He wouldn't be able to use much of the underhanded tactics that Nagasaki used because a) British wrestling gave warnings before DQs, and b) Styles was never good at the underhanded stuff.

    Learn to optimise your search engine queries:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q="big+daddy+v+the+ringer"

    Good point, really good argument. Nice one on flaming other users by the way.

    His two biggest feuds where with Nagasaki and Haystacks, and he won the decisive matches in both instances. This argument is literally like saying Hulk Hogan wouldn't beat some average wrestler from Japan because he lost some of his matches against Andre the Giant. It's a crap argument.

    Is that the same IWD that lists matches from Mexican, Japanese and US promotions only? Stone Cold Steve Austin is not on the UK equivalent, so I guess he was irrelevant.

    1) Who, that isn't a "global footnote" does AJ have a winning record over?
    2) Those "global footnotes" wrestled to a much bigger audience than WWE, let alone TNA, garners
    3) Big Daddy won his biggest matches against all of them.

    If he got where he was only because his brother was the booker, then imagine how popular World of Sport would have been without him!!! Maybe 110% of the television audience would have tuned in!!! Don't be so stupid, people don't watch what they don't enjoy, regardless of who booked it.

    Dynamite Kid, Giant Haystacks, British Bulldog, William Regal, Finlay and Owen Hart all featured alongside Daddy and were either his weaker tag partners or squashed by him. All of them have wrestled to bigger audiences in the USA than AJ Styles, and all have been more relevant.
     
    #93
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  19. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    You must be getting desperate to try and put AJ on the level of a Walker or Cor Von. I don't see how the location is irrelevant. It isn't so much an "advantage" for AJ as it is obviously a disadvantage for Big Daddy. Has he ever even wrestled in the US?

    Nagasaki was such an amazing heel that he didn't even make this tournament. AJ Styles as a heel has defeated Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe while reigning as champion. Taking the mask off is nice but if you lose the match you don't advance here. Big Daddy can steal AJ's hood if he wants but he is going to lose the match in the US.
     
    #94
  20. Vega

    Vega ^______^

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    No, it has guys like Steve Douglas, Absolute Andy or Murat Bosporus - German indy guys. I'd rather say the UK equivalent is irrelevant in a tournament to determine the greatest wrestler.

    1) Against Kurt Angle, Booker T or Jeff Jarrett for example. All bigger than Daddy's opponents I'd say.
    2) FF4L talked about how the big audiences came about. Few channels, lack of competition. There's not a lot of coverage of the feuds, which to me suggests that people liked to see wrestling, regardless of the stars.
    3) From what I can find Nagasaki won the bigger matches, but feel free to give your sources. I can't find his record against Haystacks, but it seems like Haystacks won quite often. I can't find a one-on-one victory against Tony St. Clair.

    I can't find were Dynamite Kid, Bulldog, Regal, Finlay or Hart were squashed by Daddy, but I'm open to your information. Even if they were, they must've been so young and without reputation that it didn't matter.
     
    #95
  21. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Well I picked a fun first match to vote on so far in this year's tourney as I see we're all tied up in a very heated debate on this one with 63 votes apiece for each man. So in a sense I have the swing vote, atleast for the present time being. And what I'm about to say might shock some people on here because of my affinity for cruiserweights and the lucha libre style in general, but I just don't see AJ winning this one.

    It's not that AJ isn't incredibly talented and gifted, he is, he's one of the best all around wrestlers of the last twelve years and one of the guys I immediately think of when I think of what new stars were built over the 2000s decade, but against someone the sheer size and mass of Big Daddy and with the credentials he has, I just can't rightfully say that 9 times out of 10 if these two were to meet in the fantasy booking land of my mind that Styles would win. Sure, he might be able to pull off the upset win, he's done it before against big men and he's got all the skills and tools needed to do it, but Daddy was such a domineering presence inside of a wrestling ring, I just don't see him being successful in those endeavors most of the time.

    Daddy was hardly a technical wrestling god or anything but he was nearly unbeatable for a good period of time when some of the best international workers would fly into England to wrestle him and others, and that plus his size advantage is what seals my vote for him here. Personally I prefer AJ between the two and would rather watch him wrestle than Big Daddy most any time, but I just can't see AJ putting Big Daddy into the Styles Clash, can you?
     
    #96
  22. #hamler

    #hamler Trending Worldwide.

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    I did. But it's a true statement.

    Oh yeah because Coco represents every wrestling fan from Canada. I guess that's why Bret Hart gets massive ovations whenever he goes to Canada. Guess that's why Shawn is boo'd evreytime he goes to Canada - because Canadian wrestling fans don't give a shit about him. :rolleyes:


    Because according to you, there wasn't much substance. You're judging my knowledge based on something you consider with no substance - ignorant.


    Comparing his popularity to Hogan or Hart is fine substance. You just won't accept it.



    Where did I say he couldn't be defeated? In the match that turned his career around with Kendo Nagasaki, he didn't even win. Doesn't mean shit considering he was more popular than AJ ever will be.


    I said this earlier. AJ was never top dog in any organization he's been in for a solid amount of time. The dude has been nothing short of a midcarder at best his entire career. While Big Daddy popularized British wrestling and brought it to the main stream. The Buster comic strip and the fact that ITV even tried producing a television show based around the Big Daddy character prove that. AJ won't ever amount to that popularity.


    If Vince would've brought in Big Daddy, he probably would've been big- what with the cartoonish characters of the WWE in the 80's. If Vince would've brought in AJ, where do you think he would've ended up? This is the WWE region after all.


    I mentioned this above. He unmasked a major heel in Kendo Nagasaki. Granted, he didn't win, but that's his turning point in getting him over.
     
    #97
  23. shattered dreams

    shattered dreams Hexagonal Hedonist

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    Can you give some examples of who these top international workers were that he defeated in a singles match? When was it that he was nearly unbeatable? I just could not find any evidence that he was an unquestioned dominate singles main event competitor, especially against top tier talent. I don't seem to be the only one that came to that conclusion.
     
    #98
  24. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    [YOUTUBE]0DSro4l_0cE[/YOUTUBE]​

    This is the British version of SCSA vs the Rock or Hogan vs Andre. It lasts less than three minutes. If this doesn't show why Big Daddy should not go through, I really do despair. All of this drawing 18 million and selling out Wembley Arena is fine and good but (and I can not stress this enough), this was due to lack of competition.

    Ask a non darts fan today to name a darts player - they'll say 80s guys Eris Bristow or Jocky Wilson. The best darts player ever is Phil Taylor and he is has sold out arenas all over Britain and yet he is less famous to laymen than guys whose primes were over a quarter of a century ago. Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan are massive names in the world of Snooker and yet their recognition is nothing compared to 80s guys like Steve Davis, Alex Higgins and Jimmy White. The millions who watched WOS where not necessary fans, they watched it because it was the best of a bad lot. People who watch TNA do so because they like guys like AJ Styles. The top watched program in 2011 got 13.59m viewers (the Royal Wedding), in 1980 'Who shot JR' in Dallas garnered 21.6m.
     
    #99
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  25. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I appreciate that they aren't in AJ's league in TNA, but they still got absolutely zero reaction. What I'm saying,as you've agreed, is that the location is not an advantage for AJ. Now, the fact that foreign wrestlers have gotten over quickly when they have a strong look would give Big Daddy every bit as much of an advantage as AJ coming from somewhere else in America. Coupled with the fact that he's more charismatic.

    It's not my fault if people didn't put him on their list. You're missing the point, I'm not talking about Kendo Nagasaki's mask coming off in the match, I'm talking about him taking his own mask off having been beaten by Big Daddy loads of times, the point of finality in the feud.



    Those guys are wrestling now. The internet exists now. It did not exist in 1976. PAC has a profile, he's not more popular here than any of those mentioned.

    Styles doesn't have a winning record over either Booker T or Jeff Jarrett! And many of his wins over Angle have been largely tainted.

    No. People will talk about three wrestlers - Nagasaki, Haystacks and Daddy - almost synonymously with wrestling. Nothing gained as many viewers in the same slot before or since.

    Haystacks did win often, but the 18 million show from Wembley Arena was won by Big Daddy. Nagasaki lost to Big Daddy last before removing his mask.

    Can you read? I said either squashed or were the subordinate in a tag team. If you can't find that info, you're either not looking very hard or lying.
     
    #100
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