WWE Region, Dallas Region, First Round: (9) AJ Styles vs. (24) Big Daddy

[The Dragon Saga]

Any argument for AJ Styles here is redundant, he could springboard off the top rope twenty times in a row, connect each time with Big Daddy's chest and he still wouldn't get the big man down, Big Daddy would crush Styles in an instance and that's giving AJ credit.

Most here don't know of Big Daddy's contribution to the wrestling industry. Not only was he a huge celebrity in both the United Kingdom and Europe but it was his influence that allowed a lot of British wrestlers to make it into the mainstream e.g. Dyanmite Kid, British Bulldog and William Regal. He wasn't the fastest or the most technically gifted wrestler of all-time, he was broot strength mixed with raw animalistic power.

Lee eluded to the ratings World of Sport would get, the re-runs of World of Sport on ITV probably get a higher number than TNA do now! That is saying something, because a lot of the old timers these days including my very own father grew up watching World of Sport, wrestling from the States didn't make its way over here until the mid-eighties and even then it wouldn't have been drawing the viewers World of Sport did.

Big Daddy vs. Kendo Nagasaki is one of the most memorable feuds in wrestling history, it used to draw huge crowds and even bigger television viewers. Big Daddy was the John Cena of British and maybe even European wrestling. Hell, he used to team with a lot of the British stars who have noteriety today, including the already reference William Regal and Dynamite Kid.

Big Daddy takes this, with ease - no pun intended. I'm Irish and I'm supporting the Englishman here, a vote for AJ Styles is a vote for absurdity.

 

[Daniel]

If you want to be stupid and analyse this match as if it’s legitimate, fine. Big Daddy grabs hold of AJ and slams him to the mat, putting all of his 375 pounds behind it. You see, I can just as easily argue that Big Daddy wins. This kind of argument is baseless, and therefore means nothing. So don’t use it.

So that’s the kayfabe argument done. Let’s move on to the ones which actually matter.

Success
Big Daddy is the most successful wrestler in British history. AJ isn’t the most successful wrestler in TNA.

Fin.

Drawing power
In 1981, a match Big Daddy vs. Giant Haystacks pulled in 18 million viewers. Not bad for an island which had a population of 46 million at the time. This was indeed a one off, but Saturday afternoon wrestling often pulled in 10 million viewers every week anyway. Needless to say, AJ Styles couldn’t draw like that in his wildest dreams.

Influence
In addition to his success, Big Daddy is the most influential wrestler in British history. And I’m not just talking about in relation to British wrestlers (from Davey Boy Smith to William Regal to Wade Barrett). No, Big Daddy was Hogan before Hogan was Hogan - insanely over, incredibly dominant and a huge draw. And how about this for a bit of trivia, King Kong Bundy originally called himself Big Daddy Bundy. While that comment isn’t the core of my argument, it does silence anyone who claims that Big Daddy’s influence is limited to the British Isles and the wrestlers thereof.

Legacy
Anyone who’s anyone in the wrestling business knows and respects Big Daddy as a great wrestler. He’s still, 15 years after his death, ingrained in British pop culture. People who don’t follow - or even understand - wrestling know who Big Daddy is. AJ Styles, on the other hand, is a guy you'd have to do your research on.

As every post in this thread shows, there’s no good reason to vote for AJ Styles in this match. Big Daddy is superior in every context that matters. Oh, apart from “speed” and “how many moves he does in a match”.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

My God, I hated Big Daddy.

After watching guys like Fit Finlay, Dynamite Kid, Mark 'Rollerball' Rocco, Steve (now William, young'uns) Regal and even Owen Hart perform - he'd waddle down to the ring with some cruiserweight as a tag partner and stand in the corner for 90% of the match while his young protégé got hammered from pillar to post before receiving the hot tag and quickly dispensing of both of the heels with his huge gut, taking the pin and glory and then he would help his poor beaten to a pulp partner up to give him the rub. My hatred deepened when I discovered that not only was he meant to be an unlikeable git in real life (Haystack's on the other hand was credited as being an absolute gentleman), the reason for his no selling dominance was that his brother was head booker for the company. This might be the reason that I have carried a slight chip against other wrestlers whose records sound fantastic until you hear that they where related to the powers that be / booked the shows themselves or had extreme levels of creative control on their characters.

With that having been said, Crabtree wasn't always the pasty white slob shown in the clip - he once carried the physique of a bodybuilder and was very proficient within the squared circle (another reason for my dislike for the man - it makes it look like laziness pays because he was more successful and over as a limited ability, fat slob).

Someone has listed how popular he was on television, which needs some clarification. The TV options available at this time were extremely limited - three stations rising to four in 1982. Given that BBC1 and C4 were airing horse racing and BBC2 was generally showing old b&w movies, this left wrestling as the programme the whole family could enjoy Saturday afternoons. It is no coincidence that the British wrestling industry left our screens when Satellite TV became available to everyone and people had legitimate options. To counter this, ITV cancelled Big Daddy's show and brought in the WWF to fill the slot and when Sky bought the rights to that, they started showing WCW Worldwide.

Roddy Piper asked Hulk Hogan during his stint in WCW if he'd have been as popular if it hadn't been for how much the fans hated him and this definitely applies to Daddy, his first two feuds where against Kendo Negasaki (a Japanese Samurai style character) and the wild man beast Giant Haystacks - two characters guaranteed to be hated by the blue rinse brigade and feared by the kiddies.

So this leaves me with a quandary... In what believable way can AJ Styles go over a no-sell, unbeatable foe? Well AJ has beaten wrestlers of all shapes, sizes & styles; he has excelled in every type of match and he has won both championships and critical accolades. The one area that I can see AJ go over is the Ultimate Warrior scenario. Hulk Hogan was nigh on unbeatable against heels but when he came up against the equally popular Warrior - he went down. Also helping is that this is in Dallas where Daddy is an unknown, not a national institution so no "Easy! Easy! Easy!" chants; rather the crowd will be behind the underdog Styles and when you take away the blue eye (face) option from the Brit, his chances of winning take a dramatic plummet.

Therefore, the combination of being drawn against a face and the location of the competition provides the Kryptonite and AJ adds another big man's scalp to his collection.

 

[Loveless]

This is a glorified midcarder in a 2nd rate promotion against England's Yokozuna. Easy? It fucking would be. AJ wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

We ARE talking the same AJ Styles who is, like, the best thing Impact has, right?
And we ARE talking the same Big Daddy, who isn't very memorable, right?
I don't have to ask any more questions, right?
Right.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

We ARE talking the same AJ Styles who is, like, the best thing Impact has, right?
And we ARE talking the same Big Daddy, who isn't very memorable, right?
I don't have to ask any more questions, right?
Right.

You mean that Styles guy who hasn't been the man in his own company for years on end? If he is the best thing Impact has, then why isn't he consistently on top? They've brought in guy after guy while Styles was playing a buffoon.

Take a trip to England and try to tell somebody that Big Daddy wasn't memorable. They'll laugh right in your face.

 

[willross]

Big Daddy is a huge huge huge person. Sits on little AJ and its over. How long can AJ stay out of his grasps. How will he even get this guy off his feet. A glorified cruiserweight could never ever touch a guy that big.

Big Daddy wins.

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

You mean that Styles guy who hasn't been the man in his own company for years on end? If he is the best thing Impact has, then why isn't he consistently on top? They've brought in guy after guy while Styles was playing a buffoon.

Take a trip to England and try to tell somebody that Big Daddy wasn't memorable. They'll laugh right in your face.

OK, correction: Styles, the FORMER best thing in Impact.
He COULD still be on top, provided the creative team didn't suck monkey balls.
As for Big Daddy, I wasn't a huge Brit wrestling fan.
When I said he wasn't memorable, I meant in the good ol' US of A's respect.
My apologies if I was misunderstood.

 

[Thom]

This is a glorified midcarder in a 2nd rate promotion against England's Yokozuna. Easy? It fucking would be. AJ wouldn't stand a chance.

This is how everyone should be looking at it. I'm assuming this will go the same way it has been in almost every other match including someone who was around prior to the 80s, where people vote for the modern guy who they know and don't look at the facts before voting. Everything that needs to be said has already been said in this thread. I'm a fan of AJ, nothing against him at all, but this one should be a lock for Big Daddy.

 

[Gelgarin]

A vote for AJ Styles is pretty much an admission of racism.

I can't think of any rational argument that stretches beyond "I'm a jingoistic American fuck and I ain't going to vote for no foreigner" that rationalises voting for AJ styles over Big Daddy.

Big Daddy is the biggest wrestling star in the history of the UK. Despite being confined to a tiny island he still drew far in excess of what AJ has managed in his career. Big Daddy was the biggest star in the biggest promotions in England. AJ Styles can't even be the biggest star in the number two promotion of the US.

Big Daddy has an enormous size and strength advantage over AJ. AJ repeatedly has shown himself to struggle getting opponents like Abyss off of their feet, and Abyss is shit. Also, Big Daddy had quite a lot of ability when it comes to winning wrestling matches; whereas AJ Styles frequently jobs to such industry titans as Tommy Dreamer and Frankie Kazarian.

AJ hardly ever wins, Big Daddy hardly ever loses. Big Daddy is bigger, stronger, better at wrestling, a bigger draw, had a more significant career and contributed more to the industry.

If you can elect a black president then you can fucking will vote for Big Daddy.

 

[Ming]

One of the biggest first round squashes.

Big Daddy would crush AJ without breaking a sweat. Styles could run away for a little while but when Big Daddy gets his hands on him (and he would) he'd toss him around like a rag doll. Then finish him off around the 10 minute mark.

 

[#hamler]

Big Daddy is to England what Bret Hart is to Canada. Big Daddy is to England what Rikidozan is to Japan. Big Daddy is to England what Hulk Hogan is to America. Big Daddy goes over AJ easily. Styles may be my favorite performer in TNA's history but he doesn't hold a candle to Big Daddy. It was said before, Styles is nothing but a glorified midcarder who has never been the face of any company - let alone an entire country. Big Daddy had huge success in the wrestling business that not even AJ can touch.

 

[Ming]

I'd vote for AJ. He would just run rings around the big lad until he finds a way to bring him down and win the match.

Then you'd be voting for the wrong man.

He'd run rings around the big lad, then get caught, then get squashed. I'm being generous when I say that AJ would last near 10 minutes.

 

[.]

There is no way that AJ can beat Big Daddy here.

AJ hitting 20 or 30 springboard dropkicks or forearms or whatever against Big Daddy is the same as me throwing a tennis ball against a brick wall for 40 minutes straight. I'm hitting it but nothings gonna move it at all or create any lasting damage. AJ taking the big man down is simply impossible.

Let's compare the history of both men shall we? AJ is arguably the top face in a company that many consider the 2nd best in America simply due to the fact that it has a TV deal. He has lost a large portion of his matches recently including one loss to Kaz. KAZ. That's like losing to Billy Gunn! He's a great worker and one hell of a high flyer(Probably the best going today) but at the same time, he's tiny and is barely a draw. His show brings in only about 3 million people(Or is it less?).

Now onto Daddy. For one, he went undefeated for 6 years. Would TNA let AJ break Crimson's streak? I would bet not. Even if he does, officially Crimson's streak hasn't lasted a year yet. As it's already been mentioned, Daddy had a match that drew less than half of England's whole population to watch.

So.... one of the most biggest drawing wrestlers of the UK that inspired plenty of wrestlers both British and non-British vs. a glorified mid-carder who is a big draw in a company that barely draw. Yeah AJ totally has this in the bag.

 

[Daniel]

I'd vote for AJ. He would just run rings around the big lad until he finds a way to bring him down and win the match.

Read this. Fucking read this.

If you want to be stupid and analyse this match as if it’s legitimate, fine. Big Daddy grabs hold of AJ and slams him to the mat, putting all of his 375 pounds behind it. You see, I can just as easily argue that Big Daddy wins. This kind of argument is baseless, and therefore means nothing. So don’t use it.

Did you read it? Did you fucking read it? Good. Then you'll know why that argument is ridiculous. It shows no knowledge of wrestling, it offers no reasoning for your position and I'm pretty sure it's in violation of the spam rule here.

All it tells me is that you like AJ Styles and you're not sure who Big Daddy is. That's no reason to vote for the lesser wrestler.

 

[shattered dreams]

All it tells me is that you like AJ Styles and you're not sure who Big Daddy is. That's no reason to vote for the lesser wrestler.

Actually it is a pretty good reason to vote for someone when the only reason to vote for the other guy is he is a hero on an island 35+ years ago. This match is in Dallas and some wanker that gets winded listening to their theme song is going to come in and defeat someone that can actually touch their toes? I doubt it. Legend is being thrown around far too much in these tournaments, not to mention regurgitating wikipedia (looking at you HAM) and pretending you actually know this guy is a legend or give a shit about him. History majors don't get jobs, live in the present. Don't let other people tell you who the legends are. If you don't know 'em they aren't a legend to you, probably with good reason.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

I can't say I know anything about Big Daddy. When I clicked on the link, I thought "so I guess they're calling him Big Daddy V instead of Mable. Ok"

Either way, I'm voting for one of the top 5 wrestlers in America presently. It'll make for a better tournament, and Styles deserves. Sheer determination & a never say die attitude will allow Styles to outlast Big Daddy.

 

[Daniel]

Actually it is a pretty good reason to vote for someone when the only reason to vote for the other guy is he is a hero on an island 35+ years ago.

It's not the only reason. Like I said, Big Daddy was more successful, the bigger draw and more influential. AJ is the lesser wrestler here.

This match is in Dallas and some wanker that gets winded listening to their theme song is going to come in and defeat someone that can actually touch their toes? I doubt it.

Big Daddy was fat. Is that really the argument you're putting forward? Good lord.

Legend is being thrown around far too much in these tournaments, not to mention regurgitating wikipedia (looking at you HAM) and pretending you actually know this guy is a legend or give a shit about him. History majors don't get jobs, live in the present. Don't let other people tell you who the legends are. If you don't know 'em they aren't a legend to you, probably with good reason.

Actually, do. Otherwise, how are you going to learn? Just because you aren't aware of Big Daddy, it doesn't mean he isn't any good. Or even a "legend". And it sure as hell doesn't make AJ Styles better.

I can't say I know anything about Big Daddy. When I clicked on the link, I thought "so I guess they're calling him Big Daddy V instead of Mable. Ok"

So you don't know of one of the wrestlers. Fine. You could read the posts in this thread, maybe do a bit of research and then make an informed decision on who's better...

Either way, I'm voting for one of the top 5 wrestlers in America presently. It'll make for a better tournament, and Styles deserves.

... oh.

AJ isn't one of the top five wrestler in America. Should probably clear that up. He barely makes the top five in TNA. There's a reason he's a midcarder.

Sheer determination & a never say die attitude will allow Styles to outlast Big Daddy.

Horrible reasoning. Just horrible.

 

[Con T.]

I love AJ. I really do. If I'm being completely honest, he may be my favorite wrestler going in wrestling, today.

I can't ignore how much money Big Daddy has drawn in England, and what he means for English wrestling. Someone will call me a hypocrite, because I voted Joe over Y2J, and Joe didn't draw money. I would argue he drew more money than AJ, but this isn't the Joe match. As much as I love AJ for his in ring work and his hustle, I have to admit he's lacking everywhere else. I've never seen a babyface who's been pushed for so long, and has gotten over, that still cuts such bad promos. They aren't always cringe inducing, but they often are. And at the end of the day, Big Daddy is not only the biggest wrestler in his company, he's likely the biggest wrestler in his own country.

I'm sorry; I love you.

Big Daddy takes this one

 

[Loveless]

Just reading the Wikipedia entry and laughing my arse off at the thought that AJ could beat this guy. I'll quote sections

"famous for his record-breaking 64 inch chest"

And just to be clear, that record was set before he got fat. AJ is 5'11 at best and nearly half Daddy's weight.

"a former Rugby League player for league club Bradford Northern who never made an appearance for the first teams due to his fiery temper often forcing him off the pitch early,"

This might not register with the US fans but imagine your version of football with no padding. This guy wasn't allowed to play because he was too rough. Fuck me

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Any argument for AJ Styles here is redundant, he could springboard off the top rope twenty times in a row, connect each time with Big Daddy's chest and he still wouldn't get the big man down, Big Daddy would crush Styles in an instance and that's giving AJ credit.

[YOUTUBE]vm3t5IeczZI[/YOUTUBE]

Or it would take one crossbody and five strikes to the gut.

 

[SavageTaker]

I honestly don't know anything about Big Daddy. Nothing at all. That's the reason why I'm abstaining from voting, but I get the feeling that people are underestimating AJ Styles here. If a guy smaller than AJ like Rey Mysterio can defeat guys bigger than Big Daddy such as Mark Henry and The Big Show, then I don't see why AJ couldn't defeat Big Daddy.

Like I said, I'm not voting in this match because I've only heard of him, but don't actually know a thing about Big Daddy. I'm merely pointing out though that it's one hundred percent plausible for AJ to take down the big man and get the win by either pinfall or submission. Remember, weirder things have happened in the world of professional wrestling.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

So you're saying that being massively over in a second rate company is better than being massively over in an entire country. And your also saying that wrestlers that don't draw are just as good as wrestlers that do.

Right...

I don't know what you were expecting him or anyone to do against a 650 pound behemoth. The fact that he managed to send Haystacks over the top was pretty damn impressive.

So you're just going to assume he can't do anything based on a match with an opponent twice his size? Lulz...

Clearly you're too simple to comprehend my argument so I'll simplify it for you. I'm saying being an upper midcarder in one of the world's most viewed promotions (yes, TNA) is greater than being over as a wrestler in England.

If you're impressed by bodychecks and cheap finishes from an untalented nobody, watch NHL. There's a reason why Big Daddy never made it big in the US, because he couldn't. Andre The Giant made it big, a bunch of Canadian and Mexican wrestlers did. Bulldog, Dynamite Kid were prominent Brits that left their mark. But Big Daddy is a small time cult hero who never did / won anything of significance. There's a reason why he's ranked this low by an entire panel of experts.

AJ wins this. Easily.

 

[Bernkastel]

Clearly you're too simple to comprehend my argument so I'll simplify it for you. I'm saying being an upper midcarder in one of the world's most viewed promotions (yes, TNA) is greater than being over as a wrestler in England.

...So let me see if I understand you correctly. You're saying that being a second rate main eventer in a company that only draws a couple thousand fans as a whole, is somehow greater than being a single man who was adored by thousands upon thousands of people including world leaders?

Do you think that just because WWE is the most successful company in the world that all the other little two bit companies in the USA are somehow also better than everything else in the world? That's nonsense.

AJ Styles is a nobody in the grand scheme of things. 20 years from now his accomplishments will have been forgotten. In my home state, you could ask nearly anyone over the age of 40 if they watched Jerry Lawler growing up and they'd say yes. I'm sure if I went to England and starting asking people over the age of 40 or so the same question about Big Daddy they'd say yes.

If you're impressed by bodychecks and cheap finishes from an untalented nobody, watch NHL. There's a reason why Big Daddy never made it big in the US, because he couldn't. Andre The Giant made it big, a bunch of Canadian and Mexican wrestlers did. Bulldog, Dynamite Kid were prominent Brits that left their mark. But Big Daddy is a small time cult hero who never did / won anything of significance. There's a reason why he's ranked this low by an entire panel of experts.

Now you're just blowing smoke out of your ass. You're assuming that Big Daddy couldn't have made it in the US; on what grounds? That's pretty ignorant. And the reason as to why he's ranked so low? That because none of us were alive 50 years ago to watch the man in his prime; we can only read about it through documentation... but that doesn't mean his accomplishments should be demeaned or ingnored.

 

[Con T.]

There's a reason why he's ranked this low by an entire panel of experts.

Experts? Experts, you say?

Listen, I hope that the good people of Wrestlezone don't take this too much to heart when I say, but I'd be hesitant, at best, to describe anyone that took part in the selection as an "expert". Jack, they're just like you and I; they are fans. Now, most of them are somewhat well informed fans, who have followed wrestling for quite some time. But no one on this forum, and this I hope is taken literally, is an expert on professional wrestling. Cept for Gelgarin, I imagine him studying wrestling literature for a job. I'm sorry I've deemed you to such a sad, sad existence.

If we're going to be fully honest, the experts in wrestling are the actual wrestlers. And the more people you draw, the greater your expertise. Big Daddy draws; AJ doesn't.

And I'm an AJ mark