Horseshit. You don't have to know 1000 holds to be a good wrestler. You have to structure a good narrative and possess the requisite athletic prowess to not botch everything. Cena is as good at wrestling as anybody out there.
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WWE RAW 12/26/2011 - The (Chi-Town) Rumble Road
- Thread starter FunKay the Inevitable
- Start date
Horseshit. You don't have to know 1000 holds to be a good wrestler. You have to structure a good narrative and possess the requisite athletic prowess to not botch everything. Cena is as good at wrestling as anybody out there.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
I think he's had good matches with those people as well. I just think you need to look at the list of names and decide who the better wrestler in each of those matches was. Except for Umaga...
So are you saying out of all those matches the other guy carried Cena to a good match?
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
BTW, love the red rep for expressing an opinion.
Tequila Dave
Flame on.
Does it take just one person to put on a good wrestling match then?
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
Not at all. I'm just saying that when you have a worker like Triple H, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, etc. it's hard to NOT have a good match. Unless you're a complete abomination.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
Holy crap, not another one of these fucking discussions?
Didn't you read what I said:
From the proper angle, it appears that Punk is wearing your grandma's muumuu.
This is a cutting edge discussion topic that needs mindless banter.
Didn't you read what I said:
From the proper angle, it appears that Punk is wearing your grandma's muumuu.
This is a cutting edge discussion topic that needs mindless banter.
But with such a long list of good matches wouldn't it be fair to say that Cena is a good wrestler? If he wasn't then he wouldn't be able to have so many good matches regardless of his opponent's ability. Eventually he would be exposed but he keeps delivering.
Tequila Dave
Flame on.
My grandma's dead...
takes two to tango...
amazing_blue
Pre-Show Stalwart
What would be cool is if Jericho came back and is barking at CM Punk about how he's the best wrestler in the world. And then from out of nowhere, Muhammad Hassan's unmistakeable music hits.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
The thing is, he didn't get over with his current gimmick. He got over with the rapper gimmick and was put in the main event after a measly 3 years. If he had debuted with his current gimmick, he would probably not be in the position he is in today and would not have had the opportunity to have the matches he had with the main eventers you listed. Again...merely my opinion.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
What is up with people red repping me for giving my opinion? It's getting ridiculous.
I don't see how any of that equates to him not being able to wrestle.
His gimmick has evolved over time. That's natural. He is still by far the most over guy in the company. Besides the rapper gimmick pretty much disappeared when he went to Raw in 2005. All the matches I listed came after. The rapper gimmick was fun but it wasn't really a main event gimmick.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
This is true, but it's still what got him to the position he is in today. It covered up his weakness (wrestling) while bringing his strength to the forefront (mic work, entertainment, etc.). That's why it took so long for people to start the "Cena only noes 4 moovez" crap. I'm not one of those people but I do see that there is enormous room for improvement in his in-ring game. I hope he turns heel because it will force him to do more than take a beating for 90% of the match and then make a comeback.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
Listen Brain, I'd love to continue this conversation with you as you've been the only person to try and have it in a civilized manner but I don't want to risk people red repping me some more just because they don't agree.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
What they are doing is red repping you for saying that "John Cena can't wrestle." See, the problem with that statement is that John Cena is (get this) a professional WRESTLER! Then you keep saying that he sucks. He doesn't suck, he is just not your cup of tea.
His 5 Moves of Doom (shoulder block x2, back suplex variation, 5 knuckle shuffle, Attitude Adjustment, STF) are one more then Hulk Hogan had (punch, irish whip, boot, leg drop). It's as many as Shawn Michaels had (Forearm with kip-up, inverted atomic drop, body slam, elbow drop, Sweet Chin Music). Bret Hart also had a finishing sequence too. As did Stone Cold Steve Austin.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
Dude...I didn't even say anything about the 5 moves of doom. In fact, I said I'm not one of those people. You do realize that it IS possible for somebody to think Cena is not a very good wrestler and not be a proponent of the 5 moves of doom philosophy right?
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
But it is not possible for someone to think that Cena isn't a very good wrestler and for that same person to be intelligent/correct.
The central flaw in your argument is that you posit a difference between "entertaining people in a wrestling ring" and "wrestling", when no such difference exists.
If you want to argue that Cena is not a very good technical wrestler in the tradition of Angle, Benoit, and so on, than by all means, you're correct. But John Cena is a wrestler in every sense of the word, and he is quite good at it.
If you want to argue that Cena is not a very good technical wrestler in the tradition of Angle, Benoit, and so on, than by all means, you're correct. But John Cena is a wrestler in every sense of the word, and he is quite good at it.
DemonToSome
Occasional Pre-Show
Only if you believe that entertaining = wrestling.
Seriously, I'm done here. Some people are just too high and mighty to have a conversation about this and must resort to insults.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Wrestling is a form of entertainment. The fuck are you talking about?
That's fine, but I'll leave you with this thought: What's more important, being able to execute a lot of wrestling moves or being able to connect with the audience? Judging by your sig I'm guessing you'll pick the former and if that's what you like that's fine. I like it too but I think storytelling and emotion is more important. Give Daniel Bryan and Evan Bourne 15 minutes and I'm sure they will flawlessly execute all kinds of moves, flips, and counters. They'll probably do a good job but how would that match hold up to Hogan vs. Rock at WM18? No one will call that match an example of crisp textbook wrestling moves but it is fondly remembered of one of the all time great matches. It's because both those guys could connect with the audience with just some simple mannerisms. John Cena can do that to.
There is enough room on the roster for variety. You may like Punk and Bryan best but if everyone wrestled like them than everyone would eventually be boring. Variety is good. Cena's style suits him and he's worked well with many. He's by far the most over guy in the company so he must be doing something right.
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