WWE confirms Live Smackdown and Brand Split ****Keep it in here!****

[Sean Valjean]

God, I hope not. I was completely over the brand split years before it finally ended and I have no desire to see it return. It made sense in 2002, but would be pointless today. They don't need a way of featuring more talent, but a way to smartly use what they have.

Instead of trying to feature everyone and everything each week, they should take a page from NXT's playbook and rotate appearances. Superstars who don't wrestle either do promos/backstage stuff or don't appear at all. This keeps Raw from feeling cluttered, prevents overexposure (a BIG problem today), and makes you more excited to see your favorites. It also makes champions seem like bigger deal as they'll compete the least, making title matches more special. Most importantly, this solves the problem of running talent into the ground and creating injuries just as effectively as a brand split. I'd be more in favor of canceling Smackdown and focusing on Raw and NXT, then using Superstars to build lower card talent.

My biggest gripe with separate shows returning is potentially going back to having two world titles. I hated that concept before, as I firmly believe in one, true world champion, period. It would also render the first unification, which was not even two and a half years ago, totally pointless.

 

[dsotm5150]

Pros and cons on both sides, what it all comes down to is whether or not WWE feels the roster is deep enough to justify having two brands again, and they have a huge roster of talent in NXT that they've dubbed "not ready for primetime players" but as far as a main roster, its pretty weak right now. Even if Cena, Rollins and Orton were active right now WWE is essentially in the a rebuilding phase as far as true main event stars goes. I would be all for a brand split if done right, title wise I think you make the Divas, Tag Team and World titles defendable on all shows, draft U.S. Champ to RAW, IC to Smack down or vice versa and leave the rosters alone after the draft, no trading or jumping sides just for the hell of it, do a draft once a year to shake it up.

 

[BigBombB]

And your logic for splitting the rosters this way? Or were you just trying to name talent? Is there a reason you're breaking up the Dudleyz and #socialoutcasts?

Raw is the brand with the "top" talent, Smackdown is the brand for establishing talent and creating new "top" talent. I see a Smackdown brand as being the next logical step up the ladder from NXT. So when I'm thinking of how these brands can be split up, it should be in a way that gets the most traction out of names who are lost in the shuffle and gives a place for potential big stars who can't break through due to the glass ceiling of Raw.

So if Dean Ambrose is made the champion of Smackdown, as an example, while sticking former champions like Big Show, Chris Jericho, and Sheamus (who are used very inconsistently) on the show to help bolster him, then it benefits all of those talents. It allows them all to develop their characters again instead of being thrown into generic transition feuds which makes the WWE, as a whole, stronger. It also gives a place for talented midcards like Luke Harper and Rusev, who have been stuck in the shadows of others, a chance to establish themselves.

And, to my earlier point about Smackdown being the next logical step for NXT talents, I think a guy like Finn Balor could come onto Smackdown with my proposed roster and be instantly seen as a major player. Right now, I'm not sure I would feel the same if he debuted in the current over-populated landscape. Same for Samoa Joe, who could easily fit into an upper midcard/occasional main eventer role. More WWE style guys (like American Alpha) and guys they instantly have big plans for (like Shinsuke Nakamura) can still come onto the Raw brand and be major players without needing the transition.

As to your specific questions, I hope that that helps explain my logic behind who I would place where. As for splitting up the Dudley's, I think that Bubba Ray proved that he can be a hot commodity on his own after his Bully Ray run in TNA. D-von may get the short end of the stick on that end, but D-von can also cut a decent promo when he is comfortable with the material he is working with, and could make for a good manager with a return to his Reverend character. And, honestly, the social outcasts are jobbers and their "social" appeal could see them split up while still staying connected through online events.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Raw is the brand with the "top" talent, Smackdown is the brand for establishing talent and creating new "top" talent.

It is? Or it was 10 years ago when you had like 15 viable world champions on the roster? Right now Raw is the show where stuff happens and Smackdown is the show where they show that stuff happening again.

I see a Smackdown brand as being the next logical step up the ladder from NXT. So when I'm thinking of how these brands can be split up, it should be in a way that gets the most traction out of names who are lost in the shuffle and gives a place for potential big stars who can't break through due to the glass ceiling of Raw.

Then it's not a brand split, it's relegation. If you're going to split the brands, they need to be somewhat equal.

So if Dean Ambrose is made the champion of Smackdown, as an example,

Did you watch Raw? He is the most over face on that show. Your example sucks.

while sticking former champions like Big Show, Chris Jericho, and Sheamus (who are used very inconsistently) on the show to help bolster him, then it benefits all of those talents.

You just said it is the "B" show. It is one step up from developmental. How does getting labled as B level performers help Jericho, Show, and Sheamus? That is even worse than the above abuse of Ambrose.

It allows them all to develop their characters

Something Y2J and the Big Show clearly need to do.

again instead of being thrown into generic transition feuds which makes the WWE, as a whole, stronger.

Y2J is about to win the tag titles and Sheamus is in a stable that play henchmen to the authority. Please tell me about how they toil in nothingness again.

It also gives a place for talented midcards like Luke Harper and Rusev, who have been stuck in the shadows of others, a chance to establish themselves.

Not everyone can lead a stable. Your suggestion breaks up every stable in the Fed. What is your problem with stables? Did you get cornered by a horse and have your innocence into called into question? The stables in the WWE right now are the best thing going. Seriously, stop trying to defend your idea for the brandsplit. All you did was list talent with no rhyme or reason.

And, to my earlier point about Smackdown being the next logical step for NXT talents, I think a guy like Finn Balor could come onto Smackdown with my proposed roster and be instantly seen as a major player.

Finn Balor, specifically, should be featured on Raw. He and AJ are the next logical step from Daniel Bryan. Once HHH is fully in charge, those are the guys that will rule the fed.

Right now, I'm not sure I would feel the same if he debuted in the current over-populated landscape.

Then purge the garbage, don't hide the talent on a show that changes nights and networks every five minutes.

Same for Samoa Joe, who could easily fit into an upper midcard/occasional main eventer role.

He really sucks. I just can't get into him. His intensity is so forced. I feel like I should be rubbing his belly for luck.

More WWE style guys (like American Alpha)

I'll give you $100 dollars if you tell me how they are more "WWE style guys"

and guys they instantly have big plans for (like Shinsuke Nakamura) can still come onto the Raw brand and be major players without needing the transition.

Where are these plans? He's going to NXT like everyone else. Did someone whisper in your ear that he's going straight to the top? Considering the fact that they just randomly changed Brock Lesnar's Mania plans, I wouldn't count an this Nakmura to the top fantasy you're having.

As to your specific questions, I hope that that helps explain my logic behind who I would place where.

Not even close.

As for splitting up the Dudley's, I think that Bubba Ray proved that he can be a hot commodity on his own after his Bully Ray run in TNA.

Meh. It wasn't that good. it filled a need at the time. There are plenty of better heels right now, as evidenced by HHH's run with the title. In all seriousness, the Bully Ray run was what, three/four years ago? He's getting old. You talk about wasting a spot someone could grow in, that's the definition.

D-von may get the short end of the stick on that end, but D-von can also cut a decent promo when he is comfortable with the material he is working with, and could make for a good manager with a return to his Reverend character.

That is outlandish.

And, honestly, the social outcasts are jobbers and their "social" appeal could see them split up while still staying connected through online events.

You would break up the Horseman and DX given the chance.

 

[Shotaro]

A brand split would be a phenomenally bad idea.

The current injury situation while bad is something that could easily happen again. Most of the big stars are in their mid to late thirties and those that aren't either aren't getting over (Reigns) or have already been at the top for seven or eight years and people are getting tired of them (Orton) for a brand split to work they need guys to hang each brand on. Feuds and rivals for them as well as an heir and a spare.

The WWE are also doing a frankly terrible job of getting people over with 5+ hours of prime time to use them in. Would reducing that really help? They only really have 5 genuine full time main event era (Cena, Orton and the Shield members) right now and I'm frankly being charitable. Five main event stars is plenty when you have an upper mid-card full of also rans and future main eventers. WWE have really not got that right now.

Maybe I'm just being cynical after last night's episode of Raw but holy shit they need to do something fast to fix this. I feel like WCW was in a better place when it went under.

 

[BigBombB]

It is? Or it was 10 years ago when you had like 15 viable world champions on the roster? Right now Raw is the show where stuff happens and Smackdown is the show where they show that stuff happening again. Then it's not a brand split, it's relegation. If you're going to split the brands, they need to be somewhat equal.

It's not like they're going to be like "hey, this is the second rate brand!"...does NXT look like a second rate brand despite being "developmental"? No, it is a different flavor, just like Smackdown would be for wrestlers who are getting lost in the shuffle on Raw. It can be the brand where they take risks and push boundaries. During Daniel Bryan's World Title run he was on Smackdown nearly the entire time and it was excellent, he got an opportunity to succeed outside of the Raw environment and knocked it out of the park.

Did you watch Raw? He is the most over face on that show. Your example sucks.

Hence why making Ambrose the face of an entire brand, instead of making him play second fiddle to Roman Reigns, is a sensible plan.

Y2J is about to win the tag titles and Sheamus is in a stable that play henchmen to the authority. Please tell me about how they toil in nothingness again.

Are we pretending the League of Nations is a good stable? It SHOULD be a good stable, but the reality is quite different. Also, Y2J working with AJ is great for AJ, but this isn't going to last long, and then Y2J will be lost in the shuffle again. If he is on a brand where he is one of the biggest names then there is a better chance of him crafting a proper feud with someone which is when Jericho is at his best.

Not everyone can lead a stable. Your suggestion breaks up every stable in the Fed. What is your problem with stables? Did you get cornered by a horse and have your innocence into called into question? The stables in the WWE right now are the best thing going. Seriously, stop trying to defend your idea for the brandsplit. All you did was list talent with no rhyme or reason.

It doesn't break up the one stable that is getting over, the New Day, the rest of the stables are temporary throw togethers anyway. Also, there was plenty of rhyme and reason, you may disagree with that reason but I think it is a solid idea.

Finn Balor, specifically, should be featured on Raw. He and AJ are the next logical step from Daniel Bryan. Once HHH is fully in charge, those are the guys that will rule the fed.

Neville being on Raw worked out so well, right? AJ Styles is an outlier at the moment, he is coming in as a former NJPW champion in a time when WWE is trying to break into that market. Balor is great, and deserves to be a top star, but he is likely to play second fiddle to AJ if they are both on the same brand.

He really sucks. I just can't get into him. His intensity is so forced. I feel like I should be rubbing his belly for luck.

Fair enough but, again, that is only your opinion.

I'll give you $100 dollars if you tell me how they are more "WWE style guys"

Jason Jordan is a tall, handsome, athletic guy who can wrestle incredibly well. Chad Gable, while smaller, is good on the promo end and is a GREAT wrestler. These are the kinds of guys who are young, hungry, confident, and able to make everyone they work with look good. They are EXACTLY the kinds of guys that the WWE loves.

Where are these plans? He's going to NXT like everyone else. Did someone whisper in your ear that he's going straight to the top? Considering the fact that they just randomly changed Brock Lesnar's Mania plans, I wouldn't count an this Nakmura to the top fantasy you're having.

Who said this was happening tomorrow? And if you don't think Nakamura will be used as a major player at some point then you clearly haven't seen anything he has done in NJPW or the massive star power he has there.

Meh. It wasn't that good. it filled a need at the time. There are plenty of better heels right now, as evidenced by HHH's run with the title. In all seriousness, the Bully Ray run was what, three/four years ago? He's getting old. You talk about wasting a spot someone could grow in, that's the definition.

Utilizing the only guy on the roster who can get real heel heat to put over an up and coming star is a waste of a spot? Oooook then.

You would break up the Horseman and DX given the chance.

I would break up teams that aren't over and aren't meant to be longterm anyway. So no, I wouldn't break up the Horsemen and DX, nor would I break up the New Day, the Usos, or most others who are better as a team. The Dudleys nostalgia is already dying, utilizing Bubba Ray to his fullest before they leave again is just the smart thing to do.

 

[Rocky84]

That's funny lol...I posted this a couple weeks ago and a lot of the people in that thread bashed the idea. Guess it was pretty good after all huh? It makes total sense especially when you actually look at the amount of talent they really do have and the amount that goes unused every week. Smackdown is pure garbage...make it meaningful and give guys good feuds and storylines. Friggin KOwens in a random count out feud with Big Show all of a sudden at Mania time? Come on. Tell me this wouldn't be better....

Is it just me or has NXT become too ambitious? It's been fine with me up to this point, but here we have one of the worst times in history for injuries...I don't recall there ever being so many to top superstars like these, especially on the road to Wrestlemania. And with that said, here we have management signing top stars like Austin Aries, and Nakamura, only to be sent to NXT?? We lucked out and fortunately got AJ Styles, but at a time like this, why aren't we getting these other established guys, and then some to WWE?

NXT is a developmental organization, yet it has established guys from TNA and NJPW going there. Why is that? It's not so that they learn the WWE style, because if that were the case they wouldn't have brought in AJ Styles. So why is Samoa Joe, and Finn Balor there?

My question is would anyone prefer that NXT be just for developing young talent, and therefore allow it's top guys to move to the main roster as part of a brand split? This way millions can watch them on a regular basis. If the network only has a small amount of subscribers, then they're missing out on millions and millions more being able to see the talent currently there.

Imagine a Raw and Smackdown headed by...


Raw:

John Cena
Seth Rollins
Aj Styles
Austin Aries
Shinsuke Nakamura
Finn Balor
Bray Wyatt
Baron Corbin
Neville
Kalisto
Ziggler
Miz
Kane
Cody Rhodes
Tyler Breeze
Rhyno
Swagger


Dudleys
Machine Gun Anderson & Gallows
Wyatt Family
R-Truth & Goldust
Prime Time Playas
The Ascension


Charlotte
Sasha
Bayley
Nikki
Brie
Asuka
Alicia Fox
Summer


Smackdown:

Roman Reigns
Randy Orton
Dean Ambrose
Kevin Owens
Samoa Joe
Sami Zayn
Cesaro
Sheamus
Del Rio
Apollo Crews
Rusev
Ryback
Barrett
Big Show
Mark Henry
Sandow
Fandango
Ryder


New Day
Usos
Enzo & Big Cas
Social Outcasts
Los Matadores


Paige
Becky Lynch
Natalya
Naomi
Tamina
Nia Jax
Emma



With Sting, Undertaker, Brock, Daniel Bryan, Jericho, Rock, Batista, Christian etc, on either one when they're around.



Have 2 Tag Titles, 2 Divas Titles, US/IC Title on each, and two World Titles. Obviosuly, I didn't get all the talent, but plenty to have two shows with.


Oh and bring Raw back to 2 hours...


Thoughts?

 

[Trill Co$by]

The roster is deep on talent, laughably low on star power. They need to prove they can fix that before we talk about the bennies of a brand split.

This is why the brand split WOULD work... because you've got so much talent, and yet not nearly enough space in the title pictures or television time to put all the top guys on the show. By dividing the roster and saying "Okay, now you guys can only go here and you guys can only go there" makes it so that we get less Roman Reigns shoved down our throats twice a week and more of a possibility to get two shows having decent programming. Also, WWE right now has pretty much a mirror of talent that can be used perfectly for the brand split. Just randomly dividing up the former World Champions...

Raw: John Cena, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Triple H, Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio

SD: Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Big Show, Kane, Dolph Ziggler, The Miz

Which, just like the original brand split, gives you a starting six for potential big spot light main eventers while using the rest of the shows to create more. You'd be able to put Kevin Owens on Smackdown, have him go over say Randy Orton and then become a world champion, building the biggest heel champion since Orton's IED era. You'd be able to put AJ Styles on Raw and push him to beat someone like Roman Reigns or John Cena to become a WWE Champion. It's not a terrible idea, because it helps create new stars.

 

[Navi]

The roster is deep on talent, laughably low on star power. They need to prove they can fix that before we talk about the bennies of a brand split.

I see what you're saying the roster is deep on talent, but the reason it's low on star power is because even although they have umpteen hours of TV each week, only certain people are featured.

If you split the brands they could elevate some of the midcard into stars, and I think this year has shown what happens when you don't. Everyone makes a argument for someone like Bray Wyatt who is floundering around, again, doing really nothing. We all thought he would have a big match at Mania with Lesnar, that's been scrubbed in favour of Ambrose. Wyatt on SD with the right opponents could be elevated higher than he is now.

I'm not saying that everyone should or could be elevated into main event players, but pushing them up a few notches couldn't hurt, just in case you have another injury prone year. Let's face it SD has become a rerun of RAW each week, and seeing how bad RAW has been lately, do we really need a recap of that bullshit.

Stopped watching SD a long time ago because of that reason, give the viewers a reason to tune in and they just might. I remember a time years ago when the SD roster was better than the RAW roster, and it could happen again. They have enough wrestler's to do it and if Shane is back for the long haul then why not. I really can't sit through another 3 years of Stephanie gloating that she ousted her brother, that will make me want to stop watching completely.

 

[Shotaro]

I see what you're saying the roster is deep on talent, but the reason it's low on star power is because even although they have umpteen hours of TV each week, only certain people are featured.

If you split the brands they could elevate some of the midcard into stars, and I think this year has shown what happens when you don't. Everyone makes a argument for someone like Bray Wyatt who is floundering around, again, doing really nothing. We all thought he would have a big match at Mania with Lesnar, that's been scrubbed in favour of Ambrose. Wyatt on SD with the right opponents could be elevated higher than he is now.

I'm not saying that everyone should or could be elevated into main event players, but pushing them up a few notches couldn't hurt, just in case you have another injury prone year. Let's face it SD has become a rerun of RAW each week, and seeing how bad RAW has been lately, do we really need a recap of that bullshit.

Stopped watching SD a long time ago because of that reason, give the viewers a reason to tune in and they just might. I remember a time years ago when the SD roster was better than the RAW roster, and it could happen again. They have enough wrestler's to do it and if Shane is back for the long haul then why not. I really can't sit through another 3 years of Stephanie gloating that she ousted her brother, that will make me want to stop watching completely.

You say it will create more stars, which is great. Except that it won't. How many main event stars broke through between 2004 and 2011 and stayed in or around the main event on a regular basis because they were a draw. Two? Cena and Orton. No-one else from that era became and stayed a draw persistently from that whole seven years. It's why WWE are in the situation they're in currently.

When the only stars made in a seven year period were made when the old stars were still around it means that the experiment was a failure. Cena is still top of the mountain because no one has come close to being able to take his place without injury, short term booking decisions or bad booking getting in the way (This is not something against Cena FWIW, simply pointing out the very real lack of an heir for a 38 year old whose injuries are getting more frequent and more serious) the only positive from the brand split would be that they could push someone other than Roman fucking Reigns whose 18 month push is going to end when he gets booed out of Dallas after beating the biggest heel in the company.

 

[TDFG]

I hate the thought of a brand split returning, I don't see any benefits to it, trimming the roster into two groups isn't going to have us watching RAW with 4 x 30 minute matches, having two World Champs just demeans the title as well.

 

[FromTheSouth]

There are two arguments the pro brandsplit crowd keeps falling back on.

1. The split would create new stars.

How? First of all, those of you who are endorsing the split are listing the "new" main eventers as Dolph, Miz, Sheamus, Del Rio, Y2J, Cena, Orton, etc. These are the people everyone is listing as those they would put on top. Having six or seven of the already top guys on each show makes new stars how? Every one of those guys has been given an opportunity to be on top in the last six or seven years, and with the exception of Cena and Orton, none can sustain a successful run as standard bearer. The WWE has made one new star in that time period...Daniel Bryan. Please tell me how, with the same people clogging up TV time on two shows, someone breaks through and becomes a star.

2. The roster is so deep that it needs to be split. NorCal said it best. The roster is deep on talent, but low on star power. Who on the roster that has never had a WHC in the WWE is ready to be elevated to that level? One person...AJ Styles. Not exactly a homegrown talent. Bray Wyatt could get there. Hell, Ryback has had moments of being insanely over. But, of those three, who is the breakout guy that can carry the company? That's what the WWE needs to find. They need to find someone who can anchor all of their programming and work with everyone. Everyone's proposed split is an attempt to get similarly skilled talent together (actually, all they are is giant lists of people saying look how many wrestlers I can name, yeah pork and beans yay!). Keeping the brands together allows someone to work their way up through wrestling feuds and mic feuds.

The issues above are not the issues facing the WWE. Therefore, the brand split is not the answer.

The issues facing the WWE center around one person. Vince McMahon. His control over creative leads right into stagnation. No one can progress because Vince is out of ideas. No buzz leading up to Mania....his solution...more McMahons. Literally, the number of McMahons on TV has increased by 50% and the amount of TV time they're getting is p three fold. The title scene is stale...let's bring in a new champion. HHH McMahon! HHH being as over as he is is not a positive. It shows a severe lack of other people stepping up. Having two shows to force 12 people down our throats instead of six is not the answer. HHH is clearly the star maker now, not Vince. Let HHH determine the future of the company from behind the scenes and you'll get a product that people want to see. Stop with the Hollywood writers and bring in wrestlers. Regal should be a booker on Raw, Matt Bloom should be a booker on Raw.

 

[OYDK]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this split is not a good idea. I've heard "nothing changes unless Vince changes", which is true, but why exactly does that mean the brand split is a bad idea? At the least, it means more time on TV for talents that are deserving and a renewed focus on Smackdown. Best-case scenario, we get some new stars out it.

The brand is floundering product-wise, a shake-up is exactly what's needed. Raw sucks, Smackdown sucks, I see no problem in attempting to make both of these shows semi-interesting. Just because something MIGHT fail, doesn't mean it should not be attempted. It would be a hell of a lot more intriguing than 99% of the shit we get today.

 

[BigBombB]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this split is not a good idea. I've heard "nothing changes unless Vince changes", which is true, but why exactly does that mean the brand split is a bad idea? At the least, it means more time on TV for talents that are deserving and a renewed focus on Smackdown. Best-case scenario, we get some new stars out it.

The brand is floundering product-wise, a shake-up is exactly what's needed. Raw sucks, Smackdown sucks, I see no problem in attempting to make both of these shows semi-interesting. Just because something MIGHT fail, doesn't mean it should not be attempted. It would be a hell of a lot more intriguing than 99% of the shit we get today.

I have to agree. Raw is the show that is the most highly regulated and, with no competition to make it necessary, the least likely to do anything surprising. Smackdown, on the other hand, can be looked at a bit like the wild west. It doesn't have the weight of the WWE's existence on its back, it can be the place where nothing is off limits and storylines can go in somewhat controversial directions without having the scrutiny they would have on Raw.

The Smackdown brand died because the WWE didn't know what to do with it after its initial success. If they go in with a longterm gameplan for what Smackdown should be like, DON'T do those horrible "draft" shows to suck it dry of talent, and treat it like a different flavor instead of a direct threat to the Raw brand then I think it could succeed.

This could shake things up in different ways, especially if talent swaps happen rarely but are treated as big deals; like a wrestler is a "free agent" and both brands are looking to pick them up. Make it seem like each show has a budget and, if a big talent leaves, that opens them up to pulling in new talent or a different big star. Still, this should be a rare focus and the shows should mostly focus on storylines between their talent.

I'm sorry but the WWE roster is simply too big and too numerous to get every talented wrestler the exposure they deserve, a brand split could make a big impact right now. Especially with so many potential big stars waiting in NXT for their chance at the big time, there will never be a better time for a brand split to happen than now.

 

[Shotaro]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this split is not a good idea. I've heard "nothing changes unless Vince changes", which is true, but why exactly does that mean the brand split is a bad idea? At the least, it means more time on TV for talents that are deserving and a renewed focus on Smackdown. Best-case scenario, we get some new stars out it.

The brand is floundering product-wise, a shake-up is exactly what's needed. Raw sucks, Smackdown sucks, I see no problem in attempting to make both of these shows semi-interesting. Just because something MIGHT fail, doesn't mean it should not be attempted. It would be a hell of a lot more intriguing than 99% of the shit we get today.

It provides absolutely zero benefit to anyone on the (frankly, bloated) roster. The last brand split produced two (TWO!) stars in seven years. In the four years since it has ended WWE has had just as many chances (if not more) to make legitimate stars and each time they've totally fucked it up. (Punk has been champ for a year and is the hottest face in the company! But Rock V Cena 2 needs the championship! Let's turn the potential FACE OF THE COMPANY heel so that the guy working two nights for us isn't booed in any way) or been screwed because of injury (Daniel Bryan)

Hell, they even had one guy on the roster main event mania. One who gets legitimate heat and the fans would love to see lose. What do they do. Take him off TV for months at a time to make movies that would offend the films you buy in a dollar store.

With each passing week it becomes agonisingly clear that the people being the main roster creatively are behind the times. Not only that, but they have been for a decade but they can no longer coast on their past successes and recent failures are coming home to roost.

Convince me that the brand split is a good idea. That I should continue to pay 9.99 a month when I might only care about half of the PPVs. That my precious time NEEDS to spend five hours a week watching wrestling to justify spending that 9.99 every month.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You guys are fucking DREAMING, man



We all agree 3 hour RAWs suck? We all agree SmackDown is not treated as something that matters?





Man, both of those improve so much if they only had half the roster at their disposal, wouldn't it!!



Think about what you are saying

splitting the rosters wont make the WWE better at what its doing.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this split is not a good idea. I've heard "nothing changes unless Vince changes", which is true, but why exactly does that mean the brand split is a bad idea? At the least, it means more time on TV for talents that are deserving and a renewed focus on Smackdown. Best-case scenario, we get some new stars out it.

The brand is floundering product-wise, a shake-up is exactly what's needed. Raw sucks, Smackdown sucks, I see no problem in attempting to make both of these shows semi-interesting. Just because something MIGHT fail, doesn't mean it should not be attempted. It would be a hell of a lot more intriguing than 99% of the shit we get today.

I agree that the product is a boring, uninteresting mess right now. There are reasons for that, there is talent that is injured. Plus the talent showing up on Raw are not showing much interest anymore. The shake up that needs to happen is creative/booking plus Vince/ Triple H.

Triple H needs to have full creative control of the company for a solid year and see what he does. Vince needs to lay off, maybe mentor Triple H on the corperate side and THAT SIDE only! Leave the creative decisions to Triple H!

Picture the promo's now if you do a brand split with the card filled with ...ahem...midcarders. You have to admit, there's very few top stars in the company right now, maybe four at best.

Coming up next week on Smackdown.... R-Truth vs Shaemus!

You sit there and think...holy crap...that has to be four weeks in a row they fought on Smackdown. Then you think...ooohhh...the brand split.


Grouping together the same guys on one show will get boring really fast.

 

[OYDK]

I agree that the product is a boring, uninteresting mess right now. There are reasons for that, there is talent that is injured.

If we're being honest, was it that much less of a boring, uninteresting mess even with the entire roster healthy? It was definitely better back when Cena and Rollins were the champs but the product has been pretty damn pathetic for a couple of years now.

The shake up that needs to happen is creative/booking plus Vince/ Triple H.

Triple H needs to have full creative control of the company for a solid year and see what he does. Vince needs to lay off, maybe mentor Triple H on the corperate side and THAT SIDE only! Leave the creative decisions to Triple H!

This is a scenario that will not happen. Vince will never give up complete control of his company, which is why something like a Brand Split would not be that bad. The monotonous, tone-deaf booking is not going to change, might as well do something story-line wise that will at least create a compelling program for a LITTLE WHILE.

Picture the promo's now if you do a brand split with the card filled with ...ahem...midcarders. You have to admit, there's very few top stars in the company right now, maybe four at best.

It would be very easy to promote Smackdown as an alternative to Raw. You put guys like Ambrose, Owens, Styles, Balor, etc. there and it becomes a smarks dream. Also, I'm of the opinion that Smackdown is a waste of time at this stage. ANYTHING would be an improvement to the garbage re-run special it's become. I don't need to see a show with the production value of Raw, just give me 2 hours of decent wrestling. The WWE champion moving between brands would open up some huge opportunities for these guys as well.

Coming up next week on Smackdown.... R-Truth vs Shaemus!

You sit there and think...holy crap...that has to be four weeks in a row they fought on Smackdown. Then you think...ooohhh...the brand split.


Grouping together the same guys on one show will get boring really fast.

True, but again, I'm bored anyway. And I get the sense that I'm not alone.

 

[Rocky84]

You guys are fucking DREAMING, man



We all agree 3 hour RAWs suck? We all agree SmackDown is not treated as something that matters?





Man, both of those improve so much if they only had half the roster at their disposal, wouldn't it!!



Think about what you are saying

splitting the rosters wont make the WWE better at what its doing.

Wtf?? Nobody is saying that. Look at my last post. With 2 hours for each show, and a split roster, we wouldn't have stupid, short, unexplained, nonsensical, wasteful storylines and feuds like Owens vs Big Show for example. There'd be more time for fully developed storylines that actually are entertaining.

Also, if you haven't noticed, we are currently lacking injured stars, and newly signed stars, but once these guys either come back, or join the main roster, there won't be enough time for them all...

Nakamura, Aries, Cena, Balor, Samoa Joe, Rollins, Orton, Sting, Cesaro, Gallows & Anderson, Crews, etc. Add to that all of the current top guys like Roman, Ambrose, Brock, Owens, AJ, etc...def not enough.

 

[OYDK]

It provides absolutely zero benefit to anyone on the (frankly, bloated) roster.

That's an opinion. I can say it provides a lot of benefit depending on how the show's run. As I mentioned earlier, if it leads to a lighter schedule, that ALONE is beneficial to the roster.

The last brand split produced two (TWO!) stars in seven years.

That's just not true and you know it. 7 years would have been since 04 since it ended in 2011. I can name Cena, Orton, Punk, Edge, Batista, and Mark Henry just off the top of my head. Besides, it's not about producing stars. If WWE knew how to do that, they would have done it by now. It's about creating something, anything worth watching out of Smackdown.

In the four years since it has ended WWE has had just as many chances (if not more) to make legitimate stars and each time they've totally fucked it up. (Punk has been champ for a year and is the hottest face in the company! But Rock V Cena 2 needs the championship! Let's turn the potential FACE OF THE COMPANY heel so that the guy working two nights for us isn't booed in any way) or been screwed because of injury (Daniel Bryan)

All the more reason to take guys like CM Punk away from the John Cena's and Roman Reigns' of the WWE. Many guys will never get their just due with Cena, Roman, and Seth all around at one time.

 

[OYDK]

You guys are fucking DREAMING, man

Of course.

We all agree 3 hour RAWs suck? We all agree SmackDown is not treated as something that matters?

Yeah.

Man, both of those improve so much if they only had half the roster at their disposal, wouldn't it!!

They would if guys worth a shit were given some actual TV time. Tyler Breeze, a guy who's already proven that he has the potential to get over, rarely gets a spot on Raw. Damien Sandow, who was the hottest thing going at one time, is nowhere to be seen. Wyatt, Cesaro, Miz, Harper, Neville... all guys that could and should be doing so much more but can't because the Mcmahons need an hour each of TV time. You have 4 great talents in Sheamus, Barrett, Rusev, and Del Rio in a lame ass group because it's the only way to keep them all around and semi-relevant. Big Show and Kane are taking up spots on Raw ffs. It's not as asinine as you're making it seem Norcal. Far from it.

Think about what you are saying

splitting the rosters wont make the WWE better at what its doing.

No, but what the fuck will? It's like saying never try anything because it doesn't matter. This style of booking hasn't gone away and it won't anytime soon.

 

[Shotaro]

That's an opinion. I can say it provides a lot of benefit depending on how the show's run. As I mentioned earlier, if it leads to a lighter schedule, that ALONE is beneficial to the roster.

Except it won't lead to a lighter schedule. The roster already splits into two touring companies. They'll just brand one as the Smackdown tour. Just like they did when the brand split was going on.

That's just not true and you know it. 7 years would have been since 04. I can name Cena, Orton, Punk, Edge, Batista, and Mark Henry just off the top of my head. Besides, it's not about producing stars. If WWE knew how to do that, they would have done it by now. It's about creating something, anything worth watching out of Smackdown.

I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by star. Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Taker, Bret, Shaun, Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH, Sting, Flair, Race, Sanmartino, Cena and Orton are or were stars. Ortons been there for the best part of a decade now and has been there for as long as guys like Bret Hart were.

I'll concede Edge and Batista. Punk didn't break through and stay there until 2011 and Mark Henry was insanely popular in 2001 and didn't stick around in the main event for long. They had their first main event in that time but other than that they didn't become actual main event stars in that time.

All the more reason to take guys like CM Punk away from the John Cena's and Roman Reigns' of the WWE. Many guys will never get their just due with Cena, Roman, and Seth all around at one time.

You're throwing Punk at me, I get it he's my avatar he's in my sig he's the rep for my character in the e-fed. He was close to or outselling Cena's merchandise when he turned heel. He got his just due and short term booking (turn him heel so he can give the Rock the title run he deserves!) essentially fucked him. Losing at the rumble and not getting a rematch at mania made his year long run with the belt meaningless. Go Bck to 2013, make that match a triple threat where Punk wins and watch as you return to the present to see forum posts about how they're fed the fuck up with Punk keeping guys down.

Then you have a case like Bryan, he sadly is one of the younger guys who was around for the hardcore era. He got concussions a plenty in his early years then became the best wrestler in the world. Made it to the big time and got Bret Harted by Sheamus. Tragic, inevitable, not WWE's fault.

Then you have The Miz, the last chance of the brand split. He was the biggest heel in the company. People HATE him, he is objectively one of the best guys in WWE, a natural heel personality with a punch able face and good enough in the ring and on the stick to hang with the big boys. He main events mania in 2011. Then? Mid-card obscurity.

The brand split is a gimmick that would draw in a small number of new fans who would see the product and immediately change channel. It will not and can not fix anything. Smackdown's ratings are good enough for it to be profitable and stay on the air. Right the ship first. Make one or two guys to hang each brand onto and THEN split the roster if you absolutely must.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Wtf?? Nobody is saying that. Look at my last post. With 2 hours for each show, and a split roster, we wouldn't have stupid, short, unexplained, nonsensical, wasteful storylines and feuds like Owens vs Big Show for example. There'd be more time for fully developed storylines that actually are entertaining.

How can you guarantee that? With a full roster, we get Show vs. Owens. Your argument is that splitting the roster will give them MORE options? I'm no math major, but...

Also, if you haven't noticed, we are currently lacking injured stars, and newly signed stars, but once these guys either come back, or join the main roster, there won't be enough time for them all...

Do you think they're going to take time from Y2AJ or from TruthDust? How will we ever live with less TruthDust?

Nakamura, Aries, Cena, Balor, Samoa Joe, Rollins, Orton, Sting, Cesaro, Gallows & Anderson, Crews, etc. Add to that all of the current top guys like Roman, Ambrose, Brock, Owens, AJ, etc...def not enough.

Cena, Lesnar, etc. rarely appear on SmackDown as it is. Splitting the brands isn't going to get them off of SmackDown when they're not there already.


The problem is not that there isn't enough time to develop people, it's that there's too many people getting time that don't deserve it. There is a shit ton of filler on both shows. If they have time for all that filler with one "brand" then there isn't enough actual talent for two brands. The solution is to use time better, not pretend that a brandsplit creates more.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I have yet to hear a good argument as to why this split is not a good idea.

Funny. I was thinking that about why we SHOULD split.

I've heard "nothing changes unless Vince changes", which is true, but why exactly does that mean the brand split is a bad idea? At the least, it means more time on TV for talents that are deserving

There are no real stars that can carry a program. List the "main eventers" on the roster. What is the common theme? They all have to against Cena or HHH or Orton or Jericho to be interesting. Ziggler, Miz, Show, Sheamus, Del Rio. and I'm sure I've missed someone, have all gotten chances to be a torch bearer and have failed in attempts to be interesting outside of feuding with the big 4, and sometimes have failed even going against them. There is a lot of talent, but there are few stars, and taking them away from each other makes the roster more watered down, not less.

and a renewed focus on Smackdown. Best-case scenario, we get some new stars out it.

Exactly, absolute best case, one or two people rise from the ashes and shine briefly. You don't make a long term plan for the best. You hope for the best and plan for the worst. You can fix Smackdown and make stars without splitting the brands. Cut the recaps, focus more on wrestling, and use the rest of the newly found time to get some of these guys used to talking and take advantage of the fact that it is taped. Cutting the recaps would add 30 minutes to SD. The reason that show always had the recaps before is that it was on network television instead of cable. Those recaps existed to keep people without cable in the loop. Now, everyone has cable, everyone has the internet, and everyone can keep up with the product. Were you in the Raw LD last night? They recapped the entire show from last week. Between SD! last week and Raw this week, they wasted an hour on recapping Shane's return. That's 20% of the TV time they are given weekly. Use that time better and there is plenty of time to elevate new talent.

The brand is floundering product-wise, a shake-up is exactly what's needed. Raw sucks, Smackdown sucks, I see no problem in attempting to make both of these shows semi-interesting. Just because something MIGHT fail, doesn't mean it should not be attempted.

It's a publicly traded company that is responsible to shareholders, not a puppet show just for you. "Something might fail" is exactly why you don't try it.

It would be a hell of a lot more intriguing than 99% of the shit we get today.

It could also destroy the company and end professional wrestling in America. I know that's a little extreme, but there is a reason the same shit keeps showing up on TV. It sells ads. That keeps USA happy, that keeps the shareholders happy, that keeps the company going.

 

[OYDK]

There are no real stars that can carry a program. List the "main eventers" on the roster. What is the common theme? They all have to against Cena or HHH or Orton or Jericho to be interesting. Ziggler, Miz, Show, Sheamus, Del Rio. and I'm sure I've missed someone, have all gotten chances to be a torch bearer and have failed in attempts to be interesting outside of feuding with the big 4, and sometimes have failed even going against them. There is a lot of talent, but there are few stars, and taking them away from each other makes the roster more watered down, not less.

First of all, nobody needs to "carry the program". All that's needed is some moderately popular names and a new focus on the show, which you yourself have admitted. In a previous post I stated that SD doesn't need to rival Raw in star-power or production value, it just needs a direction. SD has fallen so far at this point that nothing besides a brand split is going to get people watching again. Want to know why? Because they don't know to. WWE treats SD like shit but if they actually started a program revolving around the damn show people would have no choice but to tune in.

Secondly, all those guys you listed were never meant to be main eventer's. They were all, every single one of them, mid-card talents who were thrusted into the main event when they won their first titles. Current landscape alone should tell you that. Also, don't know how this proves your point. Their interactions with Cena, HHH, Orton, etc. have all resulted in ultimately failed main event careers.

Thirdly, splitting the roster in no ways waters it down. The argument you used for this point has no basis. How exactly is putting Cena and Orton or Jericho and HHH on different shows watering down the roster? These guys have nothing to do with each other as is. Plus, very few people get programs with Cena and HHH per year anyway.

Exactly, absolute best case, one or two people rise from the ashes and shine briefly. You don't make a long term plan for the best. You hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Yes, and you just happened to ignore my worst case scenario being a more watchable Smackdown. Doesn't seem so bad.

You can fix Smackdown and make stars without splitting the brands. Cut the recaps, focus more on wrestling, and use the rest of the newly found time to get some of these guys used to talking and take advantage of the fact that it is taped. Cutting the recaps would add 30 minutes to SD. The reason that show always had the recaps before is that it was on network television instead of cable. Those recaps existed to keep people without cable in the loop. Now, everyone has cable, everyone has the internet, and everyone can keep up with the product. Were you in the Raw LD last night? They recapped the entire show from last week. Between SD! last week and Raw this week, they wasted an hour on recapping Shane's return. That's 20% of the TV time they are given weekly. Use that time better and there is plenty of time to elevate new talent.

This is all well and good, but as I already mentioned, that's not going to get people watching again. Even when I see title matches advertised on SD, I don't watch and I'm guessing many others don't even care to tune in no matter what they throw at us at this point. The brand has been soiled by now. People will only watch if you give them a real reason to.

It's a publicly traded company that is responsible to shareholders, not a puppet show just for you. "Something might fail" is exactly why you don't try it.

And you had to enter D-bag territory didn't you. That's cool. I don't expect WWE to be my personal puppet show, I'm sorry if my wanting a watchable hour or two of WWE programming is too entitled for you. The reason of "it might fail" is not a good reason to not try something. What business school trained you? Nothing has a 100% success rate. Everything has a chance of failing.

It could also destroy the company and end professional wrestling in America. I know that's a little extreme, but there is a reason the same shit keeps showing up on TV. It sells ads. That keeps USA happy, that keeps the shareholders happy, that keeps the company going.

Oh man, I'm not even going to bother. The "end of pro wrestling in America" because of a BRAND SPLIT? Listen to me. WWE will sell adds and find investors no matter what. They make money out the bunghole. There will always be somebody there to invest in the WWE.