WWE: Calgary: Round 1, Match 2: #32 Abyss vs. #33. Haku

[Shocky]

The following matchup is a first round match in the WWE Region, from Calgary, Alberta Canada. The match is conducted under Basic WWE Rules.

#32. "The Monster" Abyss

vs.

#33. Haku

 

[klunderbunker]

Now this is an interesting match. Abyss has far more credentials than Haku, but that doesn't mean he's better as David Arquette has more time as a world champion than Kane. Abyss has won some non hardcore matches, meaning he can wrestle under WWE rules. Haku though is more comfortable in this enviroment. That Tongan Death Grip he used as Meng brought down the Big Show before so i don't think Abyss will be much of a problem.

 

[The Todd]

This won't be pretty by any stretch of the imagination, it will just be a big brawl and it could sway either way. Haku was renowned for being an incredibly good foghter, and I'll give him the edge.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Both of these men are big brawlers. They punch, kick, slam, and throw. Abyss is heavier, but Haku was a bit faster. The Tongan Death Grip, though, was a beast of a finisher. It could take anyone down. Because of that, Haku wins.

 

[CENAtion]

I actually like this match up alot. Both guys are tough and can take punches. These guys are gonna trade punches for fun with each and this is going to be a slobberknocker. I just feel Abyss has lived to much off the hardcore envirnement throughout his career and this is the WWE where that stuff is not legal. Haku/Meng is semi athletic for his size as well as the strength and the Tongone Death Grip can take down anyone on a given night.

 

[jmt225]

The WWE ring has always been made for two types of wrestlers: Supermen and Monsters. Abyss is a monster, while Haku sure as shit ain't a Superman. While you could make an argument that Haku was a fucking monster in WCW as Meng, I think most consider his prime to be as Haku in WWE. And as Haku in WWE, he didn't accomplish much. Besides, even if you want to say Haku was in his prime when he was Meng.... Meng got his ass kicked multiple times by Sting (in what were GREAT matches, I must admit), whereas Abyss has multiple wins over Sting in TNA, in some very brutal matches.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Both of these men are big brawlers. They punch, kick, slam, and throw. Abyss is heavier, but Haku was a bit faster. The Tongan Death Grip, though, was a beast of a finisher. It could take anyone down. Because of that, Haku wins.

Amen, 48.7!

Haku, especially in his later and more imposing WCW incarnation, was a monster. VERY agile, VERY quick, VERY strong, and just deadly. His finisher was badass, and he's put down some legends with it.

Abyss is a bad hybrid of Kane and Mick Foley - the look and size of Kane with a similar backstory, and the penchant for falling on tacks and broken glass. Abyss never even wins those hardcore matches anymore.

Haku NEVER went soft as Abyss has. Even if this is the true Abyss with James Mitchell in his corner, Haku was so focused and single-minded, he'll take some of Abyss's best shots and come out on top by pinfall with the Tongan Death Grip into a side thrust kick.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Man, I would take Abyss over Haku any day. Haku only has two things to his credit: a) he's Samoan, and Somoans are oh so crazy that you wouldn't want to mess with them in a street fight (all right, I'll walk on the other side of the street if I see Haku, but it still doesn't change the fact that I think he sucks in the ring); and b) he had the Tongan Death Grip as a finisher when he teamed with The Barbarian as The Faces of Fear in the late 90s (please, the only reason why people think this move and "Meng" were so badass is because the Death Grip afforded The Faces of Fear a few fluke wins over the likes of the Steiners and Harlem Heat, if I remember correctly).

On the other hand, Haku has a lot in his disfavor: he was part of a jobber heel tag team whose only credit was belonging to the Heenan Family (i.e., The Islanders) and he got his ass handed to him by Hercules at WM V and by Demolition at WM VI. Furthermore, after him and Andre lost the belts to Demolition, he couldn't even protect Heenan from Andre, who, by that time, was nothing more than a half-crippled and wheezing Gentle Ben.

So, I'm going to go with Abyss, the man who actually puts on great hardcore matches, who helped build a company, and who doesn't have to rely on a contrived finisher to endear himself to the fans.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Two big men going at it here and I will give the advantage slightly to Haku. Haku has the Tongan Death Grip that would take anybody down but Abyss has some moves in his arsenal as well. I don't know if he has enough to keep Haku down and wrong move and the grip would be applied so Haku picks up the victory here.

 

[Tastycles]

The WWE ring has always been made for two types of wrestlers: Supermen and Monsters. Abyss is a monster, while Haku sure as shit ain't a Superman.

Could you tell me where Shawn Michaels fits into that model? Or Jericho? Edge? Heel HHH? Or even Bret Hart really. The WWE has had far more styles of wrestlers than that, and Haku fits into at least one of them.

While you could make an argument that Haku was a fucking monster in WCW as Meng, I think most consider his prime to be as Haku in WWE. And as Haku in WWE, he didn't accomplish much.

He did become the King of WWE by beating Harley Race. He was also a key figure in the tag division. That being said, he was definitely a bigger deal as Meng, who excelled in WCW, a company far more similar to WWE than TNA is.

Besides, even if you want to say Haku was in his prime when he was Meng.... Meng got his ass kicked multiple times by Sting (in what were GREAT matches, I must admit), whereas Abyss has multiple wins over Sting in TNA, in some very brutal matches.

Do you know whose beaten Abyss loads of times? Christian. Do you know whose beaten Christian in a title match? Gillberg. Chains of victories count for nothing.

Man, I would take Abyss over Haku any day. Haku only has two things to his credit: a) he's Samoan, and Somoans are oh so crazy that you wouldn't want to mess with them in a street fight (all right, I'll walk on the other side of the street if I see Haku, but it still doesn't change the fact that I think he sucks in the ring);

Haku is Tongan, not Samoan. That being said, I still wouldn't want to mess with him.

and b) he had the Tongan Death Grip as a finisher when he teamed with The Barbarian as The Faces of Fear in the late 90s (please, the only reason why people think this move and "Meng" were so badass is because the Death Grip afforded The Faces of Fear a few fluke wins over the likes of the Steiners and Harlem Heat, if I remember correctly).

It is true to say that the Tongan Death Grip was part of the Faces of Fear's repetoire, but I'd say its most notable role was his anhiliation of Flair's enemies when Flair was the president.

On the other hand, Haku has a lot in his disfavor: he was part of a jobber heel tag team whose only credit was belonging to the Heenan Family (i.e., The Islanders) and he got his ass handed to him by Hercules at WM V and by Demolition at WM VI.

Jobbers? Their biggest feuds were with Strike Force, who they lost to, The Young Stallions, who they beat at the first Royal Rumble, and The British Bulldogs, who they beat at Wrestlemania IV. He then became a singles star, beat Harley Race at the next Royal Rumble. I wouldn't say he got his arse handed to him by Hercules, but he did lose.

The Colossal Connection easily beat Demolition on Superstars, and they dropped the titles back at Wrestlemania VI because Andre was unable to wrestle anymore.

Furthermore, after him and Andre lost the belts to Demolition, he couldn't even protect Heenan from Andre, who, by that time, was nothing more than a half-crippled and wheezing Gentle Ben.

That's what Andre was in reality, but not how he was portrayed. What are they supposed to do? Andre needed to turn face before he died, and what better way to do it? It would have made zero sense to have Haku put Andre down.

So, I'm going to go with Abyss, the man who actually puts on great hardcore matches, who helped build a company, and who doesn't have to rely on a contrived finisher to endear himself to the fans.

Haku has also put on great hardcore matches, but that is neither here nor there. My problem with Abyss, is that he is derivative, Mankane if you will, and he was a big deal in TNA when TNA didn't have big name players. Since he lost the title, and more big names came into the company, Abyss has hardly been in the main event. Meng was presented as a legitimate contender when he faced Goldberg in 1998 for the WCW title.

I think this match would be close, but I think Haku is a real dark horse in terms of acheivements, and I think he should edge this one.

 

[Thriller Ant]

You have to give Haku/Meng the advantage in this match. Abyss is known for hardcore matches, and using weapons would be the only way he could take out a beast like Haku. I think that Abyss definitely loses some ability for longevity in the tournament by not being placed in the TNA or ECW regions. Also, don't forget that Haku gave Goldberg one of his toughest matches during "the streak." Even though most will think of him in the WWE, his greatest time as far as I'm concerned is in WCW. Abyss will definitely get some offense in, but will submit to the Death Grip eventually.

 

[Bernkastel]

From what I've seen out of Abyss, the man functions at his best in a hardcore environment, although he can thrive without the weapons. I disagree with those that say that Abyss is basically a knockoff of Kane, the two are completely different. Kane is an admitted sadist while Abyss is a masochist. And that masochism boils over to his matches. Often times Abyss will not dominate an opponent with power to weaken them, instead he will absorb the blows of an opponent and wait for them to run out of gas before finishing them off with power. Abyss behaves more like Mankind in the ring than Kane.

Haku has almost a completely different style, attacking with brute force, technique, and power right from the get go. The question is can Haku dominate Abyss enough to wear him down quickly enough to get the pin, or can Abyss withstand Haku's onslaught and dominate Haku with power after Haku wear's himself out? Both these guys are big, and both are agile, and both have a surprising amount of stamina. I'd have to give the advantage to Haku simply because I've seen him dominate other men that just as big and as strong as Abyss. Abyss may have a slight strength advantage, but even if he does, it wouldn't be by much. Haku has the technique advantage in his moveset, and I could see him quickly overloading Abyss's pain receptors. I can see the Tongan Death grip potentially being Abyss's downfall as it's a move that Haku can apply out of nowhere, and if Haku's onslaught causes Abyss to panic and get sloppy, then that would open up an opportunity for Haku to apply the move.

All things considered, I'd give the match to Haku

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Being a highly touted WCW mid carder, and a WWE tag champ who wrestled numerous times at WM trounces anything a TNA lifer could ever accomplish. Haku is extremely underrated for YEARS of important service during the Hogan era. Haku easily.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Haku is Tongan, not Samoan. That being said, I still wouldn't want to mess with him.

Apologies...I'm not that well versed in Pacific geography.

It is true to say that the Tongan Death Grip was part of the Faces of Fear's repetoire, but I'd say its most notable role was his anhiliation of Flair's enemies when Flair was the president.

All right, so the most notorious usage of this move didn't even take place inside of a ring?

Jobbers? Their biggest feuds were with Strike Force, who they lost to, The Young Stallions, who they beat at the first Royal Rumble, and The British Bulldogs, who they beat at Wrestlemania IV. He then became a singles star, beat Harley Race at the next Royal Rumble. I wouldn't say he got his arse handed to him by Hercules, but he did lose.

The Islanders were nothing more than jobbers. As faces, they didn't do anything besides beat jobbers themselves. And, as heels, the only credit they had to their names was, as you already said, a victory over The British Bulldogs at WM IV. However, you forgot to mention that this was a six-man tag team bout pitting Heenan and The Islanders against The British Bulldogs and Koko B. Ware. Anyone could tell you that as soon as Koko B. Ware was added to the match that The British Bulldogs were destined for doom; Koko B. Ware was an even bigger jobber than both of The Islanders combined.

As for Race losing to Haku, this was not that much of an accomplishment at that time, as Race's career as an active competitor was coming to an end. Furthermore, Haku did nothing to capitalize on this rub from one of the greats. In fact, he ended up losing his crown to Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

The Colossal Connection easily beat Demolition on Superstars, and they dropped the titles back at Wrestlemania VI because Andre was unable to wrestle anymore.

This still doesn't change the fact that Demolition did a number on Haku at WM VI. But, I'll concede my point here, because you using Andre's exit as a reason for Demolition getting the belts back means that I am justified in saying that the only reason Haku got Race's crown was because Race was on his way out.

That's what Andre was in reality, but not how he was portrayed. What are they supposed to do? Andre needed to turn face before he died, and what better way to do it? It would have made zero sense to have Haku put Andre down.

I'll concede this point as well, as it allows for me to further look at Haku without suspending my disbelief. So, realistically speaking then, although The Tongan Death Grip was an admittedly dangerous move, was it paralyzing to the point that no one could move and try to swipe away Haku's/Meng's hands? Furthermore, Haku/Meng almost always signaled that he was going to execute the Death Grip by putting two fingers in the air. If I remember correctly, Goldberg saw this (in a match they had in late 1998) and just speared and jackhammered him, thus beating him in just over two minutes. So, the two things that Haku/Meng definitely doesn't have going for him are his contrived finisher and his predictability.

Haku has also put on great hardcore matches, but that is neither here nor there. My problem with Abyss, is that he is derivative, Mankane if you will, and he was a big deal in TNA when TNA didn't have big name players. Since he lost the title, and more big names came into the company, Abyss has hardly been in the main event. Meng was presented as a legitimate contender when he faced Goldberg in 1998 for the WCW title.

I think this match would be close, but I think Haku is a real dark horse in terms of acheivements, and I think he should edge this one.

If by great hardcore matches, you mean holding WCW's Hardcore Championship (which was held by such esteemed wrestlers as Big Vito and Screaming Norman Smiley) and winning the aforementioned belt by beating Terry Funk (who was nothing but the equivalent to a crash test dummy in wrestling at this point), then, yes, he did put on great hardcore matches. But, as you said, this is neither here nor there, as we aren't under extreme rules (apologies for bringing this point up when we are under WWE rules).

And, Abyss only being big when no one else was in TNA doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the people on which the company was built. Furthermore, not currently being a big name in TNA has no bearing on his quality as a performer. Although such wrestlers as Bobby Eaton and Ricky Morton never amounted to much when WCW became a national wrestling promotion, this doesn't take away from the fact that they were great performers and were essential to WCW's success as a territory.

 

[NSL]

I'm going for Abyss here. I don't have anything against Haku, but I don't think the Tongan Death Grip is going to be enough to overcome a Shock Treatment and Black Hole Slam.

As KB noted, the TDG has taken down the Big Show. One thing Abyss has done, that Big Show hasn't is taken a great deal of abuse over a long period of time. It's a good move, but not good enough to take out a man like Abyss.

The match will be, in JR's words, a "slobberknocker". They're going to brawl, and it's going to get ugly. That's why I think it'll come down to who's finisher is more effective.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The WWE ring has always been made for two types of wrestlers: Supermen and Monsters. Abyss is a monster, while Haku sure as shit ain't a Superman.

No he's a monster.

While you could make an argument that Haku was a fucking monster in WCW as Meng, I think most consider his prime to be as Haku in WWE. And as Haku in WWE, he didn't accomplish much.

Tag team champion & Heenan Family heavy.

Besides, even if you want to say Haku was in his prime when he was Meng....

Nobody would say Meng over Haku.

Meng got his ass kicked multiple times by Sting (in what were GREAT matches, I must admit), whereas Abyss has multiple wins over Sting in TNA, in some very brutal matches.

Abyss beat a 50 year old Sting who's past his prime and who was thinking about what he was having for luch during the match. Even then, and with weapons, he only just beat Sting.

So, I'm going to go with Abyss, the man who actually puts on great hardcore matches, who helped build a company,

Really, build a company? He was there. But that's about it.

and who doesn't have to rely on a contrived finisher to endear himself to the fans.

As this is a kayfabe type situation, which would you prefer to take? The answer is the Black Hole Slam. Because you sure as shit don't want Haku messing with your gullet.

 

[Luther_Hull]

Having Youtubed both these guys I've come to the conclusion that Abyss can't wrestle without the use of weapons, whereas Haku can. Therefore I think Haku will go through although it will be a close match, Haku seems the tougher of the two, from what I've seen, admittedly not a lot, Abyss seems to almost "give-up" when his opponent gets a disadvantage, Haku seems like a tough SOB so I think he'll win this one.

 

[Tastycles]

Apologies...I'm not that well versed in Pacific geography.

I don't care, but I'm sure Tongans would. He still has the polynesian frame though, so your point stands, just pedantics really.

All right, so the most notorious usage of this move didn't even take place inside of a ring?

Yes. It was a move so effective that it could be used outside the ring to neutralise people. How many finishers are seen as being so potent that they can deestroy someone backstage? This move is ring legal, and it was seen as more effective than hitting someone with an object to sort them out.

The Islanders were nothing more than jobbers. As faces, they didn't do anything besides beat jobbers themselves. And, as heels, the only credit they had to their names was, as you already said, a victory over The British Bulldogs at WM IV. However, you forgot to mention that this was a six-man tag team bout pitting Heenan and The Islanders against The British Bulldogs and Koko B. Ware. Anyone could tell you that as soon as Koko B. Ware was added to the match that The British Bulldogs were destined for doom; Koko B. Ware was an even bigger jobber than both of The Islanders combined.

Face Islanders were shit. So you are honestly trying to say that Koko B. Ware was more of a burden on The Bulldogs than Heenan was on the Islanders? Koko is krap, but he's better than Heenan. Islanders and their non ring trained manager, beat The Bulldogs and a hall of famer.

As for Race losing to Haku, this was not that much of an accomplishment at that time, as Race's career as an active competitor was coming to an end. Furthermore, Haku did nothing to capitalize on this rub from one of the greats. In fact, he ended up losing his crown to Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

He did become the enforcer of the Heenan family. His role was to protect Andre the Giant and Heenan. If that isn't a salute to his abilities, I don't know what is.

This still doesn't change the fact that Demolition did a number on Haku at WM VI. But, I'll concede my point here, because you using Andre's exit as a reason for Demolition getting the belts back means that I am justified in saying that the only reason Haku got Race's crown was because Race was on his way out.

And I didn't defend him beating Race to keep up my end of the bargain.

I'll concede this point as well, as it allows for me to further look at Haku without suspending my disbelief. So, realistically speaking then, although The Tongan Death Grip was an admittedly dangerous move, was it paralyzing to the point that no one could move and try to swipe away Haku's/Meng's hands? Furthermore, Haku/Meng almost always signaled that he was going to execute the Death Grip by putting two fingers in the air. If I remember correctly, Goldberg saw this (in a match they had in late 1998) and just speared and jackhammered him, thus beating him in just over two minutes. So, the two things that Haku/Meng definitely doesn't have going for him are his contrived finisher and his predictability.

Hmmm, well Abyss isn't exactly a ring technician is he? Watching everyones moves then reacting, like a cat, with a reversal. This match is hardly going to be counters and chains, he does the grip, he wins. Simples.

If you're really going to use the hand gesture as a defence, then The Rock will never win with the People's Elbow and Ric Flair will never be able to use the figure four, because they show boat before the move.

If by great hardcore matches, you mean holding WCW's Hardcore championship (which was held by such esteemed wrestlers as Big Vito and Screaming Normal Smiley) and winning the aforementioned belt by beating Terry Funk (who was nothing than the equivalent to a crash test dummy in wrestling at this point), then, yes, he did put on great hardcore matches. But, as you said, this is neither here nor there, as we aren't under extreme rules (apologies for bringing this point up when we are under WWE rules).

The TNA tag title, which Abyss has held, has been held by Pacman Jones. Are you going to say that Ric Flair and Hogan are crap because Arquette and Russo held the WCW title?

Terry Funk may just have been a crash test dummy, but he is still seen as one of the best hardcore wrestlers in kayfabe, and Meng beat him. Anyway, neither here nor there.

And, Abyss only being big when no one else was in TNA doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the people on which the company was built. Furthermore, not currently being a big name in TNA has no bearing on his quality as a performer. Although such wrestlers as Bobby Eaton and Ricky Morton never amounted to much when WCW became a national wrestling promotion, this doesn't take away from the fact that they were great performers and were essential to WCW's success as a territory.

I don't really think it was built around him to be honest. He was an original, but I don't think that he was anywhere near as important as Christopher Daniels or AJ. He was around, but not really a huge deal.

 

[Spunky]

Meng is more suited to the rule's, And the company, As Abyss is a TNA hardcore wrestler. The match itself would be a brawl, And Abyss is the king when it come's to taking it, Eventually though Meng would attach the death grip, But Abyss could still smash him with the black hole slam, And because of that, I'm going for Abyss.


Abyss is the winner here.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Abyss is a Kane rip off. He's evolved into something more. But his genesis was a poor mans Kane. And just like the Kane of today, Abyss loses. To everbody almost.

He doesn't win many feuds, and he get's beaten down easily. It's safe to say that even his weapons don't help him most of the time.

 

[Shocky]

It might be me blurring perception with reality, but I always thought Abyss did fairly well in opening matchups in feuds, and then the gimmick match is where he usually faired poorly. Haku was impressive, but I never perceived him as a legit threat to anyone, especially monsters. It wasn't until he became Meng and utilized the Tongan Death Grip that he became a legit threat to everyone in the company. Abyss, say what you will about TNA, was for the majority of its existence, the most dangerous man in the company, and the most feared man.

Can Haku lock on the Tongan death Grip, yes. Can the Tongan Death Grip drop Abyss, certainly. However, that Tongan Death Grip leaves an entire side of Haku exposed, which Abyss could quickly turn into a blackhole slam and end it. I'm going with the Monster.

 

[Mr. TM]

This is the first time my opinion has been changed by reading what others have written. I was originally going to vote for Haku in this match over Abyss, but after reading what others have said, you make some great points. Haku wasn't much, Abyss has accomplished a lot more even on the smaller stage. Abyss goes over here.

 

[RVDgurl]

In all honestly, this match is a borefest for me. But since I have to choose, I'm going with Haku. Abyss is definately more of a hardcore wrestler and being in the WWE region does not help him one bit. Haku was more of a pure wrestler and would be able to adhere to the rules of the ring.

 

[Theo Mays]

This match would be a blast to watch. Abyss is a big dude and Haku, while the credentials aren't there could scrap with Abyss. This is one of those matches where it is tough to pick a winner, as I think you can't go wrong either way. I could honestly see this matching ending in a draw. But in the end I'm giving the oh so slightest edge to Haku. Though like I said, you can't go wrong with either of them.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

It sickens me that, at the time I write this, Haku is losing to Abyss, 7-6. And I'll tell you why it's happening that way - because the name says "Haku" and not "Meng."

In WWF, with the Collossal Connection, Haku was barely servicable. But that wasn't his prime. His prime, ladies and gentlemen, was in WCW as Meng. In WCW, this guy was unstoppable. He nearly defeated Sting for the US Title in 1995, feuded with guys like Sting, Luger, Hogan, and Hart, and gave Goldberg his toughest test to that date for the WCW Championship on Nitro.

Meng was as capable a singles competitor as he was in tag. He teamed with Andre to form The Collossal Connection, winning the WWF Tag Team Titles. He formed The Faces of Fear with Barbarian, bringing legitimacy (sort of) to the Dungeon of Doom.

Abyss loses most of the Hardcore matches he is in, and was terrified of his manager.

I like Abyss, don't get me wrong. But this is Meng's match.