Wrestlemania 17: A Retrospective Look

[shooter_mcgavin]

For me The Rock vs. Austin at WM17 was the real showdown between the two. WMXV The Rock was nowhere near the level of Austin now at X-Seven The Rock is equal if not, more, popular than Austin.

Like many I found this to be a great Wrestlemania and in my Top 5. It's not my favorite like most but I can see why people love it so much.

For one the card, from top to bottom, made sense. There would be a few things I would remove or change in the match but, overall, everything worked for the best.

Jericho/Regal and Guerreo/Test made good enough sense and were all good matches for the length given. Someone mentioned why Regal/Jericho wasn't a cage match but remember at WM, time is really constraint here. They wouldn't have had enough time to fully utilize the cage at WM so better to have that match afterwards (did it actually happen?).

TLC II was amazing and better than the Triangle Ladder Match the year before. It's amazing to see these guys still find way to make the match fresh despite being their 3rd time doing this. Lita, Rhyno, and Spike's involvement really helped from keeping this match from being stale.

McMahon vs. McMahon was good, though I don't love it as others. I think Foley should have just accepted wrestling Vince here. It would have been his WM moment he was looking for all these years.

RTC vs. APA and Tazz - was short but fun. Though they should have just added Steven Richards here, the guy deserved to be on the card as a reward of making the RTC stable work. It should have been Steven Richards, Buchanan, Goodfather, Venis vs. APA, Tazz, and maybe Billy Gunn.

The Hardcore Triple Threat was ok, that's all I am going to say about it.

Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - I think this was a very under appreciated match. Sure they would have more amazing matches through the years but this was their first on PPV. So it was a very basic match but with simplicity you saw beauty here, the mat wrestling, the submission moves, the high spots, and roll up win. Yes it was a basic match but one executed to perfection and the fans ate it up. This is actually my second favorite match in the card.

Gimmick Battle Royale - Good idea in execution but when I saw how out of shape most were I was thinking maybe they should have thought this through. Heenan and Mean Gene's commentary probably made it worth it though.

Triple H vs. Undertaker - Great idea on paper but I thought this was too much brawling. The big spot was also terrible to look at since Triple H took that high choke slam only to land on an obvious cushion. Decent match but Undertaker was actually pretty bad here in ring wise, not sure the reason why but he wouldn't have a notable singles match for quite awhile. This was a big win for Undertaker though since Triple H was red hot at the time and while people didn't discuss the streak yet as much, people were already aware of its existence.

Chyna vs. Ivory - Ok whatever. I would prefer Lita in this though.

The Rock vs. Austin - Great match up and while I thought their WMXV was an ok to good match, this match was nothing short of great. I think it helped that the in ring work was much better here. The Rock greatly improved his in ring work since WMXV and it shows here. He's become more agile and more creative in his moveset. Austin actually got better in ring wise since his return from his injury. Not sure because he felt better physically or because working with guys like Angle and Benoit helped them be more creative.

The match was great and despite being both faces I loved how they didn't approach it as "I respect you may the best man win" type match up. It was "I want to beat you and beat the living s*** out of you I will". It lead to a match more aggressive than any face vs. face match up we have seen before.

As for ending. People didn't like it and I have to agree. Those chair shots were just overkill. Though I guess they wanted to establish Austin as a ruthless heel. I would have settled with a chair shot or two then a stunner on a groggy Rock.

Now as for Austin turning heel and joining McMahon I loved it. Jim Ross went berserk in commentary and sold the turn as much as he can. Many said it was a mistake turning Austin heel but I beg to differ, with Austin turning heel and the months after it really helped guys like Jericho, Benoit, and Angle get more over working with a heel Austin. The problem with the turn was that the Invasion Angle happened and really just screwed things up. But that's a discussion for later.

Also I loved the Astrodome Venue, this was a big way for the Attitude Era to go and big middle finger to WCW. It made WM feel like a big event, the event it was in it's early days so this felt like a long time coming.

What was your favorite match on this show, and why did you like it the most? What about the worst match of this show, why did you like it the least?

Best Matches were Rock/Austin and Benoit/Angle. Reasons already specified.
Worst match was the Women's Title, as mentioned I preferred Lita in this and it could have, at least, been a real match.

If you could change a few things about Wrestlemania 17, what would it be and why?

The RTC involvement ... Lita vs. Ivory for the Women's Title then put Chyna in that 8-Person Tag probably instead of my initial RTC vs. Tazz, APA, and Chyna why not just RTC vs. APA, Billy Gunn, and Chyna. I love Tazz but he looked lost in that match.

Gimmick Battle Royale - not terrible but there really wasn't people of note that could still go besides a handful.

 

[MMK]

Damn, and I thought I was a tough critic. How were you not entertained by Vince vs Shane or Taker vs HHH???? The hardcore title match was friggin awesome! Hardly meaningless. You gotta admit yourself that you're clearly very hard to please lol.

I just never much cared for WWF's version of "Hardcore". I thought the hardcore title was basically a comedy belt, a tame (occasionally lame) version of what ECW was doing at the time. Although I never much cared for ECW either. I prefer traditional technical wrestling. Garbage cans and kendo sticks just never did it for me.

Now, the TLC match AT WM17, THAT was an example of hardcore wrestling done the right way. No complaints there. But having too many hardcore style matches on one show is a bit redundant and repetitive. As I said, I would cut the hardcore title match and the six man tag match to allow more time for Angle/Benoit and the TLC match. Quality over quantity I say.

As for Vince vs Shane, I felt the McMahon's had worn out their welcome on screen at this point. After the Austin-McMahon feud ended in 99 I didn't see much purpose in the McMahon family still having a presence on camera. And I think I was proven right when they botched the WCW vs WWF feud by turning it into Shane and Stephanie vs Vince.

 

[Elchicano15]

Great Wrestlemania. It is in my top along with 20, 6, 7, 10, 26. I don't think I could change a thing on this card. You had such an awesome line up from the opening of the IC title match, to some old school nostalgia, to the WWF Title match, and the Austin turn. It kinda had a Bash At The Beach 96 feel to it, when Hogan turned on his fans and sided with the NWO.

I'm just surprised that the match I voted for on the poll didn't get much votes. Triple H/Taker match was my favorite match of the night. Even though I was sick of Triple H I was impressed how he held is ground and both performers looked great. They had a pretty nice build up to the match as well. Stone Cold/Rock 2 was pretty rad. I loved the turn and that would have been the perfect time to end a Mania with a heel victorious after a turn. JR on commentary sounded like he was going to have a heart attack or his voice was about to get thrown out. I really loved the emotion in his commentary and the back and forth arguements him and Paul heyman had.

I don't think I can change a thing with this card........maybe one more thing. I would have kept Heenan on commentary the rest of the night as a third commentator. I missed him at the table. I was so happy to see him back, and his wit.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

If Wrestlemania XVII isn't the best ppv ever, it is certainly the WWE's best ever show. (The only card that comes close is In Your House: Canadian Stampede in my opinion)

If this was to be the end of the Attitude Era, what a way to go

 

[The Warlord]

This should be an interesting thread. Many people consider WM17 to be the greatest mania of all. I think it's a coin toss between this one and WM19 and usually lean to 19 but it's very close. I could see people picking any one of five matches as their favorite. Mine is Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon. The funny thing is as was against this match at the time. I didn't like the idea of two people that weren't wrestlers getting such a valuable spot on mania. I'm very happy to admit I was wrong about that. This was a fantastic match. Obviously it wasn't going to be a technical clinic but this match was full of drama and told an awesome story. Everyone involved played their part to perfection. This was the first mania I attended live and I'll never forget the crowd response when Linda stood from her chair. These two having the best match at mania, especially this mania really says something.

I guess I'd say my least favorite match was the triple threat hardcore match. I'm not a big fan of backstage brawls. I prefer the action to stay around the ring. Even so this match wasn't bad and I'm only mentioning it because there has to be a least favorite.

I've tried to make at least slight changes to improve each mania but this is a tough one. It's so good as it is it's hard to make it any better. At the time I thought the main event could have been Kurt Angle defending the title against Austin but really Austing vs. Rock was the way to go. Just for the hell of it I'll suggest one minor change. I would add Steven Richards to the Women's title match. Sounds strange but Ivory vs. Chyna was such a mismatch. Ivory had no chance so I say make it a handicapped match involving Richards. Chyna could still win pretty easily but at least this way Ivory had a chance of keeping her title. Like I said, it's a minor change and it wouldn't really have any impact on the show but I just wanted to put some kind of change out there. Really the show was pretty much perfect.

I found this very interesting, as The Brain is one of my favorite posters to read on this forum...and who I agree with 90% of the time. I understand that Vince vs Shane told a great story...but favorite match on the card?? Put down the bottle of Jack Daniels and back away slowly...lol. Just messin.

But seriously...I understand that attending an event you see certain things differently....as I did the year previous at Wrestlemania 16 in Anaheim. What you see on TV and what you feel in person...sometimes words can't do it justice.

With a card that had Undertaker vs. HHH, TLC and perhaps one of the greatest Wrestlemania main events: Austin vs Rock....it's tough to pick my favorite match. As old school as I am (or claim to be)..you'd think I'd appreciate a good one on one match, for the title, with great build like Austin vs Rock. It had it all. But once again...the spot fest got the best of me. It's the match I kept thinking about and re-watching weeks after seeing this event. TLC was one of the most amazing things I've seen...I could only imagine what it must of been like to see it live.

Many people say this is the greatest Wrestlemania of all time...and I'm one of them. From the opening match to the very end...it was as close as you could get to perfect. My least favorite match...if I had to answer: Chyna vs Ivory. Just didn't like that match up.

If I would have changed anything...I think I would have put Tazz in a one-on-one match with Eddie Guerrero. I think they could have put on a memorable performance at Wrestlemania.

Also, I know hindsight is 20/20...but turning Austin heel and aligning with McMahon just didn't make any sense. I have no problem Austin going over the Rock clean and remaining a top babyface.

Thanks to the WWE network (which I just purchased the other day and am extremely impressed with)...I might have to go back and watch this PPV from beginning to end, what a fantastic show.

 

[spg]

i love the tlc match but taker vs hhh means a lot to me. the chokeslam of the stage looks awesome even though you see where he goes, originally he disappears into nothing, you expect the tlc from the 3 way, not from the taker brall, best hhh match at mania, no doubt.

 

[The Brain]

I found this very interesting, as The Brain is one of my favorite posters to read on this forum...and who I agree with 90% of the time. I understand that Vince vs Shane told a great story...but favorite match on the card?? Put down the bottle of Jack Daniels and back away slowly...lol. Just messin.

Yeah, I figured I'd probably be the only on to pick Vince vs. Shane. A lot of it has to do with expectations. When you have very low expectations for something and it turns out to be good you tend to view it as maybe better than it was. The other big matches had high expectations so they either met my expectations or disappointed.

Actually none of them disappointed but none really stood out as more than I thought they would be. I've been a little hard on Austin vs. Rock in the past. I'm not crazy about these guys stealing each other's finishers so much and the swerve ending didn't really work that well, especially being there live. The crowd was behind Austin and finally after so many chair shots some began to boo him a little but as soon as he got the pin the place erupted again. It was just kind of an awkward turn. Very good match though.

Undertaker vs. Triple H was good too but a little too much brawling through the crowd for my liking. I like matches staying in the ring or at least around ringside.

TLC was great and was really fun to watch live. Even though it was great it was the third time we saw this match in a year. I did enjoy it very much but it was almost like been there, done that.

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit was very good too but honestly for as good as it was I was expecting better. That may be unfair but that's just the way it was. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the match very much. It just had the reverse effect with me compared to the McMahons. A good match that already had high expectations doesn't stand out as much as a good match that surprised. Plus Angle and Benoit had no build. Angle came out on Raw six days before mania and said he had no opponent. Benoit came out and also said he had no opponent. That was the build.

To be fair I realize I'm nitpicking on all of these matches. They were all great and I'd pick any one of them as my favorite compared to other manias entire cards. When I watch WM17 all these years later I find myself looking forward to the McMahon match more than anything else.

 

[spg]

I like what brain just said, he's right. I love this ppv more than any. The opener is brilliant, the 3 way for the hardcore title makes the title look more than it ever did, angle vs benoit, tlc, taker vs hhh, rock vs austin, even chyna vs ivory made sense, mcmahon vs his kid(little bit over booked, linda. mick, stephanie, trish) shane still made it great, such a good show.

 

[Mac]

What was your favorite match on this show, and why did you like it the most? What about the worst match of this show, why did you like it the least?

Rock/Austin was one of my favorite feuds ever and this was the perfect match to cap the end of the attitude era. How fitting with the two biggest stars of that era.

My least favorite match is Chyna/Ivory. Terrible match although the buildup was decent.

As for the card I wouldn't change much except for a few things.

Take Raven out the hardcore match and make it just Kane/Big Show

Also I'd do Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guererro, which leaves Test and Regal working together.

Those are my only changes I'd leave everything as is. IMO this is a top 3 WM of all time.

 

[klunderbunker]

Really? I have to explain why Wrestlemania X7 was great? There's a reason this show is called the greatest show of all time and it's really not hard to see why. With a mind blowing four matches that are an A or better plus nothing truly bad (if that six man tag or Eddie vs. Test is the worst thing I have to watch in four hours, I'm good), there's almost nothing to complain about here. It's also the first big stadium show in years and the whole thing just works to perfection.