Sorry Y4J but Heenan said it best. Doesn't matter who thinks your great, or who pops for who, wrestling is a business and it's all about who brings in the money.
And right now that IS NOT Orton. If you feel I'm wrong, prove it. Show me #s. Maybe I used to the wrong word. Orton is semi over, but he doesn't sell. He doesn't put asses in seats yet. Remember Jericho? Back with long hair, had a fantastic match with HHH where he won the title for half a minute. People tuned in, A LOT tuned in to see that match. Thats what Orton doesn't have yet. As a heel you need to draw the audience in when your wrestling guys that aren't on your level. If Orton and Kofi Main event tomorrow on Raw it will bomb. It won't draw higher than the previous weeks.
And do you think MAYBE Orton can't draw was because he hasn't been ESTABLISHED as a draw because of him being held back? Do you think he isn't established as a great HEEL because everytime he gets to a point where he's a MONSTER heel, or a monster ANYTHING, people don't take him seriously because they KNOW he's a little bitch that's going to get beat? Since it ALWAYS happens that way?
Of course HHH is a bigger draw. WWE markets him as this monster wrestler, face OR heel. and that's what you don't realize..
HHH draws because WWE PUSHES him to be a draw. I don't care HOW good you are, WWE needs to be behind you to help make you draw. If you don't have anyone advertising and telling people he's good, people won't know, and they NEVER COULD because Orton has been shoved down by HHH. In EVERY situation. Whether face, heel, and everything.
HHH wasn't shit for a while, but he went up the ranks and any normal great in the past has, (Just as Orton did, when he was IC champion and he DREW back then) and then HHH was in DX, which had people really enjoy him and he gained support, and then became champion for the first time, and then married Steph, and he became the first heel to win a Wrestlemania main event, and he had the WWE train behind him to have him pushed as the BEST.
Orton has NEVER had that. In evolution, he was IC champion and grew into stardom, when he became champion, it was taken from him, and he became a limbo garbage face.. Yea the whole attitude thing blah blah blah. Let's jump ahead.
Orton has been STOPPED at every corner. And i'm not saying he's been stopped to be champion. He's been stopped to be the TOP guy, and he CAN if WWE gets behind him to do it. HHH before being champ had a lot behind him before. WWE doesn't get behind Orton because HHH doesn't let him happen. And Orton is doing an AMAZING job right now, which is why (like I said before) HHH is stopping him because HHH isn't ready to let it go.
And go look at numbers.. Orton as champ when he was facing peopple like Jeff Hardy as drawing.. Not HUGE, but it didn't decline bad either. And THAT'S just because of the time of wrestling right now.
Also remember, the time when WWE was great as HHH as a heel, ALSO had stars like Austin and Rock, and Foley, and a MEGA FACE Jericho. I give more props to Jericho for that ratings jump against HHH. And if you wanna give the credit to HHH, it's because WWE was pushing the McMahon Helmsley Faction through the roof. NOTHING killed that. Nothing came around and killed that. Infact, it imploded (Just like most factions do)
ORTON on the other hand, doesn't get that push, because HHH stops him EVERY time. You can't get credibility if HHH stops you. I don't care.
I'm not a Orton hater, I'm a realist. Right now HHH is more over and sells more than Orton. Doesn't mean HHH isn't stale, needs a heel turn bad, but the facts still remain. Right now I hate Cena more than anything, he's probably IMO one of the worst workers in the WWE top right now. But he sells so he gets the pub, the title, the glory. Isn't right but thats how it is. Warrior should have NEVER went over Hogan but he was hotter. Savage should have NEVER won the WM4 tourney, but WWE wanted to show Hogan they didn't need him during a contract disupute.....Ooops....
Point is Orton has came along way, but he has go a lot further if he is going to carry the WWE as their main Heel. Right now Jericho is more over than Orton. But even Jericho is getting stale.
Orton needs to realize its not about looking angry all the time, its what you say and how you say it. HHH just wasn't angry all the time yelling. Million Dollar Man wasn't just mean, and hateful all the time, he used humor. Hollywood Hogan wasn't just a dick all the time, he acted cool. Randy Orton is just one dimentional in his character right now.
Once again, HHH is over because he MAKES himself the MAIN star to get himself over. Orton is READY.. If he WASN'T ready, DONT PUSH HIM AS READY and be DERAILED again. See that's what you're missing again. It's not us complaining that he needs to be champ and we hate HHH, it's the FASHION that WWE and HHH is doing it! If he's not ready, don't push him through Rumble and then crush him at the BIGGEST SHOW OF THE YEAR where most careers and runs start rising.
One dimensional? Orton went from Cocky jock who loves himself, to an almost skitzo dark character who drools on himself after kicking them in the head. The guy is GREAT.
HHH draws but draws the SAME people, and SELLS to the same people. Orton needs to get the chance to do so! And yea he probably will, but why not mania?
Mania is where big things start. If Eddie would have won his title match at MANIA instead of NWO, it would have felt more important. Because Mania is the BE all END all. If Orton wasn't ready, don't push him and pull him back the way they do.
If you want to blame somebody blame Vince. He's the idiot that took the best matches and switched them ala WM 8. Orton-Cena was the money match. WWEs version of super heel vs Super face. That might have worked in the short term. Edge and HHH would have been a better match IMO than what we saw tonight.
And you don't think HHH might have had anything to do with it? I PERSONALLY thought it was going to be Edge and HHH and Orton and Cena. Orton and Cena have great matches. And more or so because of the connection they have. Go look at NWO when they had their match. It was mostly the "looking evil" like you said, yet it went AMAZING and worked.
The reason why it didn't happen was because HHH wanted to be main event, and he wanted to be the top face facing the top heel. Because HHH couldn't face Cena because he was champ, and him facing Edge wouldn't have been the main event. And the reason why he wasn't main event last year is because Orton won it (Which argues your argument why if Orton iisn't ready, did he win that match, in which he pinned CENA not HHH) is because TAKER was in the main event.
GUARANTY HHH convinced Vince that his angle with Orton would draw more than Orton and Cena. And what did HHH do. He got ALL the McMahons involved.
Of course maybe it's not all Ortons fault. Maybe he just hasn't had the chance to work with the super face to put him over. Cause HHH is not a super face. HHH was born to be a heel, period.
And THIS is why we argue and infact this contradicts what you've been saying. Orton is NEVER given a chance to shine because he's not being put over. HHH isn't the super face, but he CONSTALTY pushes himself as the SUPERFACE when he isn't. HHH being in the main event means he's a BIG face and since you said HHH is a big draw, don't you think an Orton WIN over HHH at the BIGGEST show of the year, would put him OVER as that?
It's not about Orton just beating HHH and that's it. If Orton won the title on SMACKDOWN, people would be like "WTF?" It's all about execution. And THAT'S what at LEAST I AM arguing more about. If Orton isn't ready, like you think, (And maybe the only one who thinks that
) then make him not ready and have him lose. DON'T PUSH HIM for like4 months and then CRUSH him at the biggest show of the year. If anything that HURTS him more than benefits him.
If Stone Cold beat HBK on Raw, it wouldn't have felt as important. But they built it up and had it FINALLY culminate at Mania. THIS is what it was suppose to be with Orton. His win at the rumble, and it ALL culminating at Mania. But it didn't happen. It all was CRUSHED at mania. it was ALL executed bad and it was bad for Orton. And yea he'll win the title soon, but it' a shame he couldn't get the MEGA WRESTLEMANIA push that he should have gotten. instead, we''ll see him win the title at backlash or armeggedon and it'll just be another run.
