Worst/Least Deserving guy to headline a 'Mania

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

I agree that the main man should be in the main event(s). I get your point there. At the time Hulk Hogan was the biggest thing around. It's just that why is it that Hulk Hogan back then always showed up when he shouldn't have?

Definitely a good point sir and well appreciated because I think it's a fair question to ask. I can't necessarily speak for guys like Hogan and Vince or what really went on behind the scenes. But my feeling is that Vince still looked at Hogan as the man, even when he was on a hiatus from the company. Do I necessarily think that was how it should have been? Personally speaking, no. I wanted Bret to be the World Champion for the longest time, I was sold on him as a Tag Champ and an IC Champ, I mean SummerSlams 91 and 92 were indicators of how great a story teller Bret was in that ring. Not to mention WrestleMania 8 against Roddy Piper, in my honest opinion, I think that match is a nominee for a Most Deserving WM Headliner thread. Therefore I was sold on the Hitman and very content with him as the World Champion.

So basically I think it's just a case where Vince was dependent on Hogan still, and I got a feeling Hogan might have leveraged that too, but considering that Hogan's WWF deal was winding down, I don't think he was as much in the position to power play like some people might think. I think in Yokozuna, Vince saw the guy that would be a good character to use to phase Hulk Hogan out of the WWF. I think a Bret-Hogan match for the title was something Vince and the WWF might not have wanted to do when considering that the last face-face title match ended up resulting in Warrior not living up to expectations.

Mania IV, Hogan shouldn't have shown up in the WWF Championship Match. Mania in Indiana, why did Sid vs Hogan finish the damn night. Savage vs Flair should've.

Bossman, I couldn't agree more. Despite my love and admiration for the Hulk Hogan character, I always had the feeling that Vince always felt inclined to keep the WWF Hogan-centric while he was still there. Personally speaking since I loved the Macho Man as much as I did Hogan when I was younger, I would have been more than content with what you just said. Having Randy close out both WM IV and VIII alone as WWF World Champion. At this point in history I am sure Hogan's star power had say, and Vince was willing to go along with it, in some ways that's disappointing if it's entirely true. This is all just theory on my part, but just the same I think Vince had much of a say in how many of these situations ended up.

Mania IX, Hogan shouldn't have come out and expect a match. Bret Hart didn't deserve that rub in the face.

I am with you on a lot of that, to be honest, I would have hated the wait as a kid, but it probably was best not to have made Bret the World Champion in the first place and held off a little longer for his title win. Granted this is more ideal sounding booking that is easier said than done, but a good approach I think would have been to have Hogan win the title at some point after coming back and just put over Yokozuna that way. In that respect we would not have had this confusing title exchange like WM 9 had, but at the same time to be fair, people continuously talk about it to this day. It was a bold move in WWF history and it sticks out in people's minds. Hence why we are talking about it right now, but again I do feel that this is how Vince probably saw things, and at the end of the day it's Vince's final say on a lot of these matters. I do think that the fallout of Hogan-Warrior from WM VI might have also scared WWF from trying a Bret-Hogan torch passing, and therefore the company went back to the tried and true method of a villain beating the hero for the title, (i.e. Ivan Koloff and Billy Graham over Bruno Sammartino and Sheik over Backlund), Yokozuna fit that bill with his beating Hulk Hogan. And in the end Bret Hart indeed redeemed himself by beating the man who actually took his title from him in the first place.

However good counterpoint and I am glad you brought your stance on this up, I hope that gives you a little bit better of an idea where I am coming from. More or less I don't outright support every storyline decision made in the case of Hulk Hogan, however I hope my theories as to why they occurred have made sense.

 

[Benoit4ever]

Most Deserving was Chris Benoit and the least deserving was Sid Justice. Chris is the greatest WRESTLER of all time and Sid is the best SOFTBALL player of all time nuff said if you don't get it you better aks somebody

 

[reed214]

my pick is the miz from 27,too much too soon. a raw triple threat between cena/rko/cm punk (only a matter of time) would have been great since cena wouldnt have had to do any of the carrying,just the horrible part of winning (wwe booking,i put punk the winner here).hopefully DB winning a world title will justify his clean smashing of the miz and then the Miz going on to have that long reign.

 

[EastCoastFan]

For those of you who said Lawrence Taylor, keep in mind that LT-Bam Bam was NOT intended to be the main event of WM 11. It got moved to the last spot because of all the mainstream press coverage the match was getting.

For mine, I'm going to go with Hogan's impromptu appearance at the end of WM 9. According to the rumor mill, Hogan insisted on becoming champion at the end of the night and Bret refused job to him, leading to Yokozuna's 2:30 title reign. It's also rumored that Vince went along with it because he knew the fans would backlash against Hogan.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

For those of you who said Lawrence Taylor, keep in mind that LT-Bam Bam was NOT intended to be the main event of WM 11. It got moved to the last spot because of all the mainstream press coverage the match was getting.

Exactly, again because WrestleMania was started on celebrity buzz so it has continued to do so.

For mine, I'm going to go with Hogan's impromptu appearance at the end of WM 9. According to the rumor mill, Hogan insisted on becoming champion at the end of the night and Bret refused job to him, leading to Yokozuna's 2:30 title reign. It's also rumored that Vince went along with it because he knew the fans would backlash against Hogan.

That's just that, rumor, Vince actually booking a guy to win the title just so people would exhibit backlash, where the fuck did you hear that from? Please, oh please give us a newslink to this juicy tidbit of internet rumor. Again, I need to know where you are getting all this information from.

 

[The Brain]

I don’t see anything wrong with King Kong Bundy being in the main event of WM2. He was a monster heel who had been built up strongly for about a year. Hogan was coming back too soon from an attack that put him in the hospital and the match was inside a steel cage. The cage and the injury put doubt in the minds of the fans as to whether Hogan could overcome the 450 pound challenger. I don’t see anything wrong with this main event.

I will never understand why anyone has a problem with Sgt. Slaughter in the main event of WM7. This was a great storyline that played off of people’s real emotions. Slaughter had more heat at that time than anyone in wrestling had ever had before or since. What is the problem with American hero Hulk Hogan taking him down at mania? Besides without Slaughter in the main event we may not have had one of the greatest mania matches ever between Savage and Warrior.

Everyone seems to think Diesel vs. HBK should have been the main event of WM11. That’s easy to say 16 years later. What you’re forgetting is that in 1995 neither Diesel nor Shawn Michaels were established main event talent. If these forums existed in 1995 and we were all members I guarantee the majority would be shitting all over a main event between two unproven wrestlers. LT vs. Bigelow is what sold the show and had the right to be the main event.

As for undeserving 'wrestlers', I mean 'Sports entertainers', then Top Five would be:
2. Hulk Hogan (A company was built on him, but one of the most limited in ring competitors ever and only succeed due to politics.)
3. John Cena (A Hogan cloan, with limited ring ability and a success only due to politics.)

If someone were to post on here that the sun rotates around the Earth rather than the other way around I would not bother to correct such ridiculousness with a response. I would just assume there is no hope. Instead I would simply mock that poster with laughter. Without further adieu

 

[two_doinks_or_an_illusion]

definitely Sid. terrible on the mic, even worse in the ring. probably got the most undeserving push of the 90's and he got it in TWO companies. only way he should ever headline anything is if it's a ladder match vs. arn anderson to see who can get a big pair of scissors hanging from above the ring first. i'd watch that.

 

[MMK]

So Hogan's ego was so great that it told Vince McMahon what to do? I'm not sure if you were alive back in 1993 or if you were old enough to remember Hogan's profile in the company even at that time. Despite being gone for a period of months, he was easily still the guy that the WWF was identified with. While I won't dispute your argument that the booking was questionable, I will question how much influence Hogan really had on the end result of Mania, in a kayfabe sense he totally did. But behind the scenes we don't really have a damned clue what was going on, after all it's Vince's call at the end of the day and since Hogan's contract was coming to an end anyway, I would doubt he was in much of a position to bargain. Vince at the end of the day is the guy that makes the call. It would be remiss of anyone being a fan of wrestling during that time and being there to witness it as it was happening to think otherwise. But yes we do at least agree that Hogan as a credible Mania headliner.

If you really want to point a finger at WM 9's infamous happenings, I would start first with the guy at the very top of the company's ladder and that would be Vince McMahon. And I maintain that same stance on the subject of WrestleManias 8 and 11 as well. Period.

Yes I was alive during Wrestlemania 9. I've been alive for all of them. And yes Hogan's ego had everything to do with it. Bret goes into detail about it in his book somewhat. Hogan and Bret were even supposed to meet for the title at Summerslam but Hogan refused to put Bret over and instead dropped the belt back to Yoko at KOTR instead. I still remember the WWF Magazine from around June of 93 with the photospread of Bret and Hogan having a tug of war over the belt. It was supposed to happen, but Hogan chickened out. Hogan demanded the title at Wrestlemania 9 or else he wasn't going to resign. He put the wwf in tough spot. Vince didn't really have much of a choice but to give him what he wanted seeing as how the roster was so thin at that point and Hogan was still the biggest name they had. No doubt at the end of the day it's Vinces call. You are correct on that. But Hogan could have said no.

And if Hogan being an ego maniac is news to you, then I'll have to ask you the same question of whether or not you were alive back then. Because Hogan's hogging the ball is not exactly breaking news.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Wow, just when I gave you props with a green rep for your original post, you have to give me a rebuttal that has us think you were a first hand witness to the events surrounding the WWF World Title in the Spring through Summer of 1993. Well sir, I am more than glad to counter every single point of yours and argue it to the best of my abilities. Are you ready to read up as to why I think you are gravely mistaken?

Yes I was alive during Wrestlemania 9. I've been alive for all of them. And yes Hogan's ego had everything to do with it. Bret goes into detail about it in his book somewhat.

Dude, you seriously can't cite a tell all book as the gospel for what really happens backstage, I mean seriously dude...Bret's book was great I can't deny that, as a fan I HAD to read it. But dude, I hate breaking this to you but those "tell all books" are just an extension of kayfabe, let's be real here for a second. Think about this for one moment we are dealing with the subject of professional wrestling, a genre of entertainment NOTORIOUS for blurring the lines that border fantasy and reality and as the fans have supposedly gotten "smarter" to the occurrences...the industry has found new ways to loop us into the whole product. Therefore, your insistence that Bret Hart's book is evidence for what happened behind the scenes of WrestleMania IX and beyond is inadmissible, plain and simple.

Hogan and Bret were even supposed to meet for the title at Summerslam but Hogan refused to put Bret over and instead dropped the belt back to Yoko at KOTR instead. I still remember the WWF Magazine from around June of 93 with the photospread of Bret and Hogan having a tug of war over the belt.

Again just speculation and rumor nothing more, Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan have spoken about this vaguely, but Vince himself has never confirmed or denied such a thing. Sure, they say so in their books but read above in my previous paragraph, I'm calling "kayfabe" on all that jazz good sir.

However as far as your claim that there was a photospread promoting the match, there wasn't. Bret claims there was in an interview, but such materials were never released to the public, they were never in the WWF Magazine of June 1993 either. That month's issue had a recap of WWF WrestleMania IX, trust me, I owned the issue when I had a subscription as a kid and the subsequent issues that summer had no mention of Bret Vs Hogan other than in a Fantasy Warfare between the two.

Again, a lot about the whole "Bret Vs Hogan" scenario has several holes.

It was supposed to happen, but Hogan chickened out. Hogan demanded the title at Wrestlemania 9 or else he wasn't going to resign. He put the wwf in tough spot.

Ok, prove it to me...I don't want rumor, I don't want Bret's own perspective because everyone has heard that spiel before. But prove it to me because that photo spread does not exist.

Vince didn't really have much of a choice but to give him what he wanted seeing as how the roster was so thin at that point and Hogan was still the biggest name they had. No doubt at the end of the day it's Vinces call. You are correct on that. But Hogan could have said no.

Yes, but as we all saw it was obvious Hogan's contract was ending anyway he was on his way out of the company. My theory (and again it's a theory not an assumption like you have made with what you THINK you know), Vince saw it to make better sense to have Hogan get crushed by the monster heel in Yokozuna than having Hogan lose to another face like Bret. Remember they tried it three years ago with Warrior and that did not work in the long term as we saw.

And again, why was Lex Luger being groomed as the new top face to take Hogan's spot? You see this is the thing...they could have had Bret win the title back immediately from Yokozuna after the "supposed Hogan deal" fell through but they never did. Again, I can't prove anything about this but my feeling is that Lex Luger all along was being groomed to try to take Hulk Hogan's spot or else they never would have come up with that Lex Express angle. It was obvious the WWF still wanted a Hogan like character even though the real McCoy had decided to depart for other opportunities.

Again, there was no rush for a Yokozuna-Bret Hart II until the following WrestleMania, if there was such a rush to make Bret Hart the World Champion again, then it would have probably happened.

Like I said, unlike you I am only proposing a theory while you on the other hand seem to act like you were an eyewitness to every single thing you heard about just because you read it in a book....please....

And if Hogan being an ego maniac is news to you, then I'll have to ask you the same question of whether or not you were alive back then. Because Hogan's hogging the ball is not exactly breaking news.

Oh here we go again, the tried and true "Hogan's an ego maniac" game. Yes, I'll concede that megastars like Hulk Hogan are more likely than not a little overwhelming because they have a certain sense of ego. But it comes along with the territory of show business, let's not kid ourselves.

Basically anyone that wants to have a level of fame, has to have a CERTAIN amount of ego and that even includes guys like Bret Hart who believe it or not is still a favorite of mine regardless of my defending my point against you in regards to Hogan's ego. Because I do not think Hogan's ego was the biggest factor in this whole situation like you claim it to be. Basically, people who want to have fame and be publicly known figures all have to have a bit of ego, that goes all the way up from Hulk Hogan and all the way down to The Brooklyn Brawler, if you can't see that point, you're deluded.

And for the record, I was indeed alive during this era, in fact I more than remember the Saturday Morning Superstars where Mean Gene introduced Bret Hart as the new WWF World Champion when he beat Ric Flair. I also remember Bret's early matches as champion against guys like Papa Shango and Shawn Michaels. I've always been a Bret Hart fan as much as a Hogan fan, but just the same accept your role as a fan just like I have mine...you or I are just that fans...we are not privy to what really goes on in the world of wrestling just because the industry likes to make a few extra bucks off of us by publishing these supposed "tell all" autobiographies.

Again, you would do yourself well to realize that you have no true leg to stand on when it comes to what occurs behind the scenes in the business even though you think you do. I bet you also think that there isn't a possibility that Montreal was a very well orchestrated work, again I can't prove it was and I will admit that it was a well played angle...but I think there's plenty of room to make a sound theory (and again let's stress the word theory because at the end of the day that's what it is, I am not trying to sell fact like you are, and it's sad when one sells fact even though they lack the grounds to do so) that Montreal could be a work...

Anyway, it's obvious that you are someone who is obviously blinded by some great bias towards Hogan that you'll believe anything and everything you hear, which is a very sad mentality to have.

Just enjoy the fact that at the end of the day that Bret Hart got to (in storyline) avenge his loss against the man he lost the title to a year earlier. If you cut out all the bullshit backstage drama that you are convinced had to have happened, Bret's second reign was a pretty damn good storyline.

 

[DanTheMan3:16]

My pick might piss some people off but hear me out. I say Chris Jericho and HHH at Wrestlemania 18 now calm down here why. Going into Wrestlemania the main build match, the match everyone wanted to see was Hogan vs Rock, that should have been the Main Event, the last match and after the match was over with, the crowd in toronto was exhusted. Also The build up between Jericho and HHH wasnt exactly main event material for WM. HHH was in a feud with Steph. and since HHH won the Rumble, Jericho was just thrown into the match just because he was the Champion, he wasnt in the feud whatsoever. Hogan vs Rock made Wrestlemania X8, it was the match that all 68,237 fans in attendance and the millions at home paid to see in the main event. If you watch the Hogan vs Rock match you will see why it should have the main event, The crowd went apeshit and was on their feet the entire time. It was truely a dream match, And you look at HHH vs Y2J, the crowd basically was just exhusted.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I can think of two. Lawrence Taylor and The Miz. Taylor is the least deserving to headline let alone WIN the main event of a Wrestlemania because he wasn't even a wrestler. The match was good for publicity and could have gone on next to last with Diesel VS Michaels main eventing. Then there's The Miz. He is the least deserving to headline Wrestlemania in a WWE Championship match. That man will NEVER be believable as a top guy, let alone deserving to win at the biggest show of them all due to the fact that he's terrible in the ring and could never pull off being believable as anything higher than a midcard champion if his life depended on it. The title match at the biggest show of the year should be between the two best guys they have, or at the very least someone who deserves it.

 

[mr.nobody]

Slaughter in wm7 the war was over by then no one care his heel power wasn't strong enough and Hogan was stale at this point....they should kept rude and bad news brown happy or even kept pushing earthquake longer.... how long was he the main heel like 6 to 8 months??? Slaughter got almost a year and the war ended like 4 months in of his heel push

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Sgt. Slaughter at VII- As mentioned before, cheap heat from Iraq conflict. Had that war never happened, Slaughter have never gotten that push(winning the title in the result).

Yokozuna at IX, and X- I don't think this guy should have gotten the push as the lead heel. Loved his fued with the Undertaker, but not a main event caliber wrestler in my opinion. WWF should have taken a different direction in 93-94. I would have rather seen Hart vs Luger at WMX, especially after the way the 94 Rumble ended. I think the Undertaker should have gotten the push as the lead heel in 93 instead of Yokozuna, and instead of putting the Undertaker up against the freaks week in, and week out. Undertaker should have won the 93 Royal Rumble, then defeated Bret for the title at WM IX(with some assistance, and/or cheating, much like what did happen at WMIX), then have Hulk come out, challenge the Taker to a match, and lose! Taker was already over, this would have solidified him as top heel, and a great, deserving world champion. 93 would have been more fun with the Undertaker as world champion. He could have dropped the belt to Yokozuna at Royal Rumble 94 in that match, and that fued would have still went down.(With Chuck Norris!)

Even though it was the last match, I don't consider Bam Bam vs LT the main event of WM XI. HBK vs Diesel was the main event. Bam Bam vs LT was a match that the WWF badly needed at the time to draw some sort of media attention to their product.

 

[Big Sexy]

LT and Mr T are not the right answers at all in this situation. The WWE is about sports entertainment and Wrestlemania is their biggest entertainment show of the year. Mr T was deserving because he was a huge name in entertainment in 1985. LT was deserving because he recently retired from the NFL as one of the greatest players to ever play the game and one of the most entertaining to ever play the game. In 1985 Mr T was more widely known then pretty much the entire WWE roster outside of Hulk and Andre. In 1995 Lawrence Taylor was more widely known then almost all of the WWE roster. They were more then deserving as entertainers to headline Wrestlemania which has always been more about entertainment then wrestling.

The answer for me is Sid Justice at Wrestlemania 8. He had only been in the WWE for 8 months total and had only been a heel for less then two months. Everything about that main event seemed rushed and Sid hadn't made nearly enough of an impact to deserve a match against Hogan to headline and close that show.