World War Z and Walking Dead

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Zombies. One of the best 'monster' creatures in modern fiction. Be it film, tv or paper media. Their symbolism is often used to reflect a mass of people behaving mindlessly (be it as consumers or even as an armed force following instruction) and only acting on impulse.

The 00's seemed to resurrect (pardon the pun) these creatures back into the public conscious with a slew of successful films: 28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead, Shaun of the Dead and Rec amongst others.

28 Days Later was a low budget film with high standards set by the opening sequence of a deserted London as the hero awakes to find himself completely alone in one of the (usually) most bustling and cosmopolitan cities in the world.

Dawn of the Dead was a remake of the fantastic 1978 original that kept the message of consumerism being a zombie-esque practice by the living alive but was able to play with conventions from the original that centred on the audience caring about the main band of survivors.

Shaun of the Dead was Edgar Wright's breakout film and brought a lot of the same pop-culture savvy from Spaced and again played with the conventions of the typical zombie film (Don't say the Z word... it's ridiculous!)

Rec was a Spanish film that took inspiration from the 1st person approach used in Cloverfield to amplify the tension and terror.

The 4 films mentioned either added or paid respect to the zombie sub-genre. However, the 2 productions in the thread title are what I really want to discuss as in some ways it seems that those in charge of them have been guilty of becoming zombies themselves. Allow me to explain.

Walking Dead
The graphic novel series is fantastic. Starting similarly to 28 Days Later, the hero Rick Grimes awakes from a shooting induced coma to try and find out what has happened and where his family are. Like the series, he finds them relatively early on and becomes the "leader" of the survivors.
The strongest image in the graphic novels is when the survivors find a prison in the middle of nowhere and set about taking out the zombies within, fixing the fencing surrounding it and trying to trust the prisoners who have survived. The visual metaphor is very strong; when society was normal this is the last place they'd wish to be and had limitless options. Now society has collapsed, to retain their humanity they have had to lock themselves into a prison to maintain that while the hordes of zombies try to break in, with Rick eventually yelling at the group that in fact they, the survivors, ARE the walking dead.
At the end of the first TV series, the audience discovers how the virus started after finding a scientist. In the novels, this does not happen until much much later on, as one question they are "imprisoned" by is how it all started. After seeing that giveaway so early on in the tv series, I was incredibly shocked and disappointed they didn't try and drag this out a lot longer and get some mileage out of it.
Final thought, is it perhaps worth reading into that Darabont fired all the writers after the first series concluded?

World War Z
World War Z is a book written after a zombie infestation has nearly wiped out the world's population, and is written as a series of interviews varying in length about different aspects of the zombie problem.
It's scope is huge and imaginative; from the breakout in China, to South Africa's hardline policy to protect themselves, to underlying Xenophobia in Israel/Egypt, to Japanese and South Koreans decimating the whale population by surviving on the sea through to the efforts to rebuild the world.
If ever a book is designed to be a tv series, this is it. However, Brad Pitt and his production company are currently filming a film version of the book, I guess with a view to further films depending on the initial success of the film. From what I've read it doesn't seem to be a retrospective film but instead will follow Brad Pitt's character as he fights through the chaos.

So, the questions of the thread.

Does it seem that the producers themselves have become zombies in a sense by following the traditional styles of series'/films even when the source material gave them the option to do something more ambitious/different?

What are your general thoughts on WWZ and TWD? (Either the originals, adaptations or both)

Do you imagine the zombie bubble will burst soon?

Any other thoughts welcome


(Apologies if this came across as too ranty, can get a bit passionate about things I like not being done justice too!)

 

[Roodey]

I effing love the Walking Dead graphic novels... so well written and worthy of a mini-series!

Sadly they turned it into a regular series and have strayed from the plot that so many love from the original Kirkman story. Yet another disappointing adaptation i'm afraid. I'll still watch the second season but it would be nice if it were on a network that allowed them to be a little more ...well, vulgar.

I haven't read the other... suppose I should before crapping on Pitt's adaptation too, haha

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I effing love the Walking Dead graphic novels... so well written and worthy of a mini-series!

Sadly they turned it into a regular series and have strayed from the plot that so many love from the original Kirkman story. Yet another disappointing adaptation i'm afraid. I'll still watch the second season but it would be nice if it were on a network that allowed them to be a little more ...well, vulgar.

I read a reason Darabont was fired from the project was because he was bringing a more film-based approach over a traditional tv one to the project which was slowing everything down. The global economy being what it is, I do kind of understand that the producers wouldn't want to be worrying over the costs if they went over time, but it seems a resolution could have been made.

It's really hard to imagine how the series will continue. Them locking themselves in the prison now does not make as much sense and should have been included in the first season at some point. Think I'm going to stick with Kirkman's story, #14 just came out recently

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I love zombies, I remember my first experience with them. I was about 7 when I watched the original Night of the living dead. I had nightmares of a cut scene where a female zombie is eating a liver for weeks.

From that point on I was hooked. So much so that I wrote a midterm paper and power point on zombies. I included a detailed Bob *bug out bag* and survival plan. I went over to possibility of reanimation. Including a 1940's short movie about Russian scientists re-animating a dead dog. They hooked up body parts to a machine called the Auto-injecktor and brought it's head and other organs back to life. Among other things I created a list of possible zombie types known to science. Man made zombies, virus, de-evolution of the human brain, and more.

A bit nerdy I know, but my love for this subject has led me to read and view about everything I can on zombies. While it is a far chance that this can happen in real life. It's still a possibility, in today’s world anything is.

I loved The walking dead, the drama shows much more emotion than a movie can. It also can focus on many small details that are often overlooked in today’s hack and slash kill em' all zombie movies. I will agree with the previous user that they have diverted alot from the Books.

Max Brooks on the other hand has created a fantastic zombie book in WwZ. He is a man that is only behind one in Zombie culture. That being the one and only George Romero. World War Z is a book that I've been itching to read again, along with the zombie survival guide. I love watching movies, but I have a rather vivid imagination. I love to read books, it just brings more to the table to me than movies. I've seen some ware that a movie is being made on this book. I hope it focuses on the whole book, rather than just making a movie out of The battle of Yonkers. That being something that I could see happen with today’s fore mentioned Hack and slash movies.

I will agree with the thought that Zombie movie makers have become a bit dull with Zombie movies in general. That being George Romero, he has made a killing off the slow shambling zombie that he helped create. A lot has been done with the Zombie Genre, but a lot more can be done with movies as a whole.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I hope it focuses on the whole book, rather than just making a movie out of The battle of Yonkers. That being something that I could see happen with today’s fore mentioned Hack and slash movies.

While that chapter is one of my favourites in the book, I would hate to see a film solely based around it. Yes it is the chapter that focuses on the turning point in the conflict (I can't remember the name of the first battle that's mentioned?) but the sheer scope of the book deserves more attention.

If Romero had been given the gig to direct either Walking Dead or World War Z in a TV capacity, I would have loved it. Be interesting to know if an approach was made to him actually, although he seems to be more content to create his own zombie universe rather than take on an adaptation. Not sure if it is technically a zombie film, but I watched the original Crazies a few months ago and think it is incredibly under-rated.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I believe that if George would of took that gig it would of turned out a bit better than what it was right now. Walking dead is just starting man, so many things can be added outside of the books. We all know almost all adaptations never stick to the plot. But I think George could of taken it to another level. The zombie scenes would of been intense, but a bit more lax and brought on. Not just BOOM ZOMBIES! Then done, a bit more buildup can be done with a few zombie scenes.

But Yonkers was the first major battle in the Great panic. They sent out teams of special military members to fight zombies during the first winter. But I think the battle you might be thinking of in the book is Pakistan and Iran destroying each other.

Redeker's plan in the book is a great one that I believe in theory could work. I mean shit if it does happen I'm quite sure that I would never make it. But the safe zones in theory would in my mind be something of a miracle. You would have to have total control over the population inside of it. If one person got outside or one zombie got in. That could fuck the whole population. Another problem is just getting the people there and training them. I'm sure not everyone could do what would be needed. Sure a lot of people hunt, and I'm just thinking in the Us here guys. Sorry people in other country’s. But how many people have the mental mindset to kill another “human” even if they are bloodthirsty monsters trying to kill them. On top of the killing ideals, how many marksmen are actually trained to Shoot the head and not the body.
I know most modern snipers are trained off center mass shooting, and most hobby hunters just shoot for the body cavity. With no gunsmiths, or bullet manufacturers in place in this zombie Apocalypse how do you make one of the most important items, the Bullet.
On top of that in today’s society, outside of said hunters. How many people actually know how to hunt and forage for food. Sure you would have stores with food stock, but what do you do when you pick stores clean for miles. Trips out would require more trained sharpshooters. You can't just slap a MG on a car and go out all Willy dilly.
I say outside of a small population, if a zombie Apocalypse were to happen. 90+ percent of the human population would die out or turn into zombies.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I believe that if George would of took that gig it would of turned out a bit better than what it was right now. Walking dead is just starting man, so many things can be added outside of the books. We all know almost all adaptations never stick to the plot. But I think George could of taken it to another level. The zombie scenes would of been intense, but a bit more lax and brought on. Not just BOOM ZOMBIES! Then done, a bit more buildup can be done with a few zombie scenes.

I think what's annoyed me the most is the negation of the Prison and the meeting with a scientist so early on. George tends to include a lot of social commentary about our current society in his zombie flicks, and if he had been given the chance to direct the series then I think the prison would have been akin to the mall from Dawn of the Dead. I think the one thing that can redeem this series would be the introduction of Michonne, one of my favourite characters from the novels. Her appearance in the novels just screams BADASS!
(There's something you said later on which I'll tie back again to the prison aspect but will give it a rest for now )

But Yonkers was the first major battle in the Great panic. They sent out teams of special military members to fight zombies during the first winter. But I think the battle you might be thinking of in the book is Pakistan and Iran destroying each other.

I think the battle I'm thinking of was also in America but in the Mid-West I believe. The one with the 'Waterboys' which I thought was a great touch. You're right though, Yonkers was the first one and was perhaps an analogy for Iraq/Vietnam in terms of America fighting on their terms rather than adapting to the different circumstances.
They maybe get mentioned in both American battles, but I once had a nightmare based on the description of the helmet cams which were all linked, so in the peripheral vision of a soldier they could see someone else being attacked. Fucking terrifying concept!

Redeker's plan in the book is a great one that I believe in theory could work. I mean shit if it does happen I'm quite sure that I would never make it. But the safe zones in theory would in my mind be something of a miracle. You would have to have total control over the population inside of it. If one person got outside or one zombie got in. That could fuck the whole population.

Yeh that was a fantastic chapter! Confession - it wasn't til I read it the second time that I realised it was Redeker the interviewer was speaking too. Oops.
I'd be on the outside too if a plan like that came together, no question. For the greater good of trying to rebuild the population of earth, it is a solid plan, but the morality of instigating it would have to lie with someone of a somewhat sociopathic (I think) nature.
The absolutive nature of the plan would probably lead to several emotional breakdowns, so that would be another thing to keep in mind, with second chances probably not being offered. If someone shows weakness once, "weakness", then for the benefit of the surviving populace drastic measures would have to be taken I imagine.

Another problem is just getting the people there and training them. I'm sure not everyone could do what would be needed. Sure a lot of people hunt, and I'm just thinking in the Us here guys. Sorry people in other country’s. But how many people have the mental mindset to kill another “human” even if they are bloodthirsty monsters trying to kill them. On top of the killing ideals, how many marksmen are actually trained to Shoot the head and not the body.
I know most modern snipers are trained off center mass shooting, and most hobby hunters just shoot for the body cavity. With no gunsmiths, or bullet manufacturers in place in this zombie Apocalypse how do you make one of the most important items, the Bullet.
On top of that in today’s society, outside of said hunters. How many people actually know how to hunt and forage for food. Sure you would have stores with food stock, but what do you do when you pick stores clean for miles. Trips out would require more trained sharpshooters. You can't just slap a MG on a car and go out all Willy dilly.
I say outside of a small population, if a zombie Apocalypse were to happen. 90+ percent of the human population would die out or turn into zombies.

I'm not too clued up on modern military procedure, but you raise a great point about the bullet situation. The early days/weeks/months would cause a significant loss of available bullets as people panic and fight their hardest to get out of dodge. Places like here in the UK would have to rely on hand-held tools rather than automatic weapons which significantly increase the chances of being scratched/bitten.

Now, back to Walking Dead's prison! I loved how early on they realised the finite number of ammunition they had and how the sound of rifles firing would attract roamers from nearby, and so set about experimenting with methods to kill the maximum number of them with minimal risk.
Semi-tied in with the bullet manufacturing is the food manufacturing, and having a large open protected space where crops can be grown would be a crucial necessity. How many people nowadays would be able to grow and sustain this though? If I had to I would give it a bash, but if things went wrong I wouldn't know how to fix any problems, such as increased levels of insect and bird populations that would affect the crop growth.
Got to love WD and WWZ for the way both authours have thought about such a crazy idea with such sanity!

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I'm not in the military, but I've seen local firing ranges making bullets. You can take spent shells and re use them with the right process if they aren't to damaged. But in the heat of battle how many people are going to pop and drop to look for shells? None

You would have to center yourself around a military ammo dump or basically take over an abandoned bullet factory. But that problem comes with another, you brought up farming. If you were going to take over a factory how many have farm land right around them. To be honest, how do you feed a population over a few hundred. Acres upon acres would be needed for that, and I just don't think you would have the man power to fence that all in.

You don't fence it in and Zed can get in it and hide. Run over it with a combine and you have contaminated your whole food stock and the combine. More problems can come from farming, but that's just a major one I thought of.

But I to liked the Mele weps that most of the walking dead used. You will have to use guns in a zombie Apocalypse. But it's nice to see something like that outside of the usual grab as many guns as you can movies. Nice touch to an already great series.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Out of interest, how many of the Walking Deads are you through? I think the last one I read was #13 and was getting pissed at Rick's combative attitude when it didn't seem necessary. It's nigh on impossible to guess how the series is gonna end but I get the feeling it wont be a happy ending.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

The closest I can get comic books or grafic novels is about 40 miles away. Alot of that stuff in my area really isn't that common. I know it's going to sound really crappy, but I've only read Days gone bye. My bro got that from barnes and nobel. When we went back about 4 months ago to pick up another one they were out.

But I do plan on going to a local mall around xmas, they are having a big nerd fest about 4 weeks from xmas. Cards, games, comics, the whole lot. I'm hoping with the success of the show that I can find a few good deals on the grafic novels.

For the people out of the loop, the new season of The Walking Dead will start October 16th at 9pm. It will be a 90 minute show, 12 episodes will follow that. It's a good thing for me since Falling skies and now True Blood is over. Only about a month to wait people!