Winter is Coming - The Night is Dark and Full of Spoilers

[Барбоса]

Spoiler

It'll also mean the exit of a character who had the potential to be the best character in the whole thing.

My money's on Arya killing at least one redeemed character, she already left Clegane to die after all. I forget what the term is, tragic hero or whatever, but it'll be like in Troy (the film mainly) when Achilles kills Hector, the villain is the hero etc, etc. I think that's the path that has been chosen for her. She'll be a grey character, much like what Tyrion is.

Whoever finishes the job of taking Stoneheart's head off deserves a medal though. Melisandre as well.

Spoiler

Stoneheart might just fade away when her big targets liek Walder Frey are taken out or she finds out that Bran, Rickon, Sansa or Arya are still around.

I fancy Stannis to finish Melisandre off, although seeing her have to come to terms with her Saviour dying might be just as

Still fancy her to revive Jon Snow in the next book though, perhaps showing that her visions are starting to focus more on him being the Big Cheese rather than Stannis.

Other death possibilities:-

Jaime kills Cersei
Sandor kills Robert Strong
Sansa kills Littlefinger
Jorah kills Barristan
Dani kills Aegon

 

[Барбоса]

I think it might even be worth starting the next season there, have them discuss the situation in King's Landing then Oberyn arrives at the end of the episode

I like that idea, although not necessarily beginning the episode that way but certainly an early scene showing a council meeting with the Martells, explaining that Oberyn must be arriving at King's Landing soon and then going on to explain what he is there for.

However, as the Martell story does not really kick off until Feast for Crows, I think they will just go with the Red Viper arriving somewhat unexpectedly in Kings Landing. Then having heard what he is really there for, a Lannister meeting explains it a bit more, with Jamie commenting on his battle prowess and Tyrion on his bedroom prowess.

 

[Miko]

Spoiler

Stoneheart might just fade away when her big targets liek Walder Frey are taken out or she finds out that Bran, Rickon, Sansa or Arya are still around.

I fancy Stannis to finish Melisandre off, although seeing her have to come to terms with her Saviour dying might be just as

Still fancy her to revive Jon Snow in the next book though, perhaps showing that her visions are starting to focus more on him being the Big Cheese rather than Stannis.

Other death possibilities:-

Jaime kills Cersei
Sandor kills Robert Strong
Sansa kills Littlefinger
Jorah kills Barristan
Dani kills Aegon

Spoiler

Jaime is a good a candidate as any for Valonquahoweverthefuckyouspellit, and Sandor is one of the few people with the combination of strength, speed and skill to kill Robert, so those two I'll go along with.
Littlefinger will survive, and become very prosperous and may even be remembered as a great lord.
I'll reverse Barristan and Jorah, with the former killing the latter.
Is Aegon the Mummers Dragon? Or would that be Stannis? If it is Aegon then you are almost certainly correct.

Thoros kills Stoneheart (wishful thinking mayhaps?)
Arya does Jaime, potentially Tommen and Myrcella as well.
Dany kills Tommen/Myrcella, to make us hate her slightly as she's too loveable at the moment.
Tyrion will die at the end as well, although it wont be corny like just after he's made peace with Jaime or in Tysha's arms, I think he'll have a pathetic death or a long wretched life due to the curse of kinslaying. Which if you believe every conspiracy theory going Jaime may also be guilty of due to killing Aerys.

What of Varys though? He's a survivor but I couldn't imagine a less likely, and therefor better character for some kind of noble sacrifice, or is he doomed to watch his great plan fail as Dany and Aegon turn on each other?

Oh and as for your friends prediction. Tyrion is a very good guess, and if I hadn't have read the books its one I would've considered.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

What I've found from my friends and family who have been watching the show without reading the books, is that people talking about a character doesn't seem to have as much impact as seeing the character.

Stannis is the main example that comes to mind as both my parents and best friend wanted to know who the guy by the fires on the beach was despite him being mentioned a decent amount in the first season.

 

[Miko]

What I've found from my friends and family who have been watching the show without reading the books, is that people talking about a character doesn't seem to have as much impact as seeing the character.

Stannis is the main example that comes to mind as both my parents and best friend wanted to know who the guy by the fires on the beach was despite him being mentioned a decent amount in the first season.

My parents are the worst for that;
"Who is that?"
"Stannis, remember? The one even Tywin is scared of."
"Tywin?"
"Charles Dance, fucking legend."
"Oh, but thats not Charles Dance. . ."
"No, thats fucking STANNIS!"

They're old and slow bless them, but once you beat them round the head with the details they are Game Of Thrones addicts.

 

[Барбоса]

My mate is reasonably good at working things out - he had the identity of the Boy figured out early on, although that was because he loved Roose Bolton's line about sending word to his Bastard at the Dreadfort.

Having said that, he is the same friend who spent the first two seasons choosing characters who were about to be offed as his favourite - Ned, Robert, Drogo and Yoren.

 

[Барбоса]

My parents are the worst for that;
"Who is that?"
"Stannis, remember? The one even Tywin is scared of."
"Tywin?"
"Charles Dance, fucking legend."
"Oh, but thats not Charles Dance. . ."
"No, thats fucking STANNIS!"

They're old and slow bless them, but once you beat them round the head with the details they are Game Of Thrones addicts.

Tywin fears no man

 

[Miko]

My mate is reasonably good at working things out - he had the identity of the Boy figured out early on.

Having said that, he is the same friend who spent the first two seasons choosing characters who were about to be offed as his favourite - Ned, Robert, Drogo and Yoren.

The identity of the boy?

He likes the fighters then, although Ned's fighting prowess is amped up in the series, but its Sean Bean and he is pretty much physical perfection and an acting masterclass, so I can allow that. Yoren is a beast, gets some cracking lines in the books as well, those were certainly the characters they tried to draw us to. Although I always preferred Ser Jorah to the likes of Robert and Drogo.

Spoiler

Your mate picks his favourites like I do, no doubt he'll like Oberyn Martell as well.

Tywin fears no man

This conversation happened before I'd understood the Tywin character, I was just playing up the fact that Tywin, in Charles Dance's ridiculously soothing, velvet like but also kind of gravelly voice, had called Stannis a bigger threat than all the other kings combined, or something of that nature.

 

[Барбоса]

The identity of the boy?

Ramsay

 

[Miko]

Ramsay

Ah yeah, him. For a second there I thought we were getting ahead of the series somewhat.

 

[Miko]

http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE...nd_full_of_terrors_by_mistermikea-d50qors.jpg

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

My parents are the worst for that;
"Who is that?"
"Stannis, remember? The one even Tywin is scared of."
"Tywin?"
"Charles Dance, fucking legend."
"Oh, but thats not Charles Dance. . ."
"No, thats fucking STANNIS!"

They're old and slow bless them, but once you beat them round the head with the details they are Game Of Thrones addicts.

Charles Dance is awesome though, the power of his stare no doubt unsettles many.

Spoiler

although they are responsible for so many of the terrible things, its going to be a bit sad to see the Lannister family crumble. Definitely going to miss Tyrions conversations with Cersei.

 

[Miko]

Charles Dance may have been the best cast person in the series, perhaps second to Tyrion, with Stannis close behind, but then everybody was nearly perfectly cast, even those actors that didn't physically resemble their characters (Davos) were still excellent.

Speaking of Stannis, I've finished reading all of the books again and for a character without humour, he puts the book version of Tyrion to shame, Tyrion lines are much funnier in the series than they are in the books it has to be said, but in the books Tyrion generally seems to try to hard while Stannis has gems like.

Stannis - "Lord Celtigar declared it admirable, if I showed him the contents of my privy he'd declare that admirable as well."

Renly - "She came to my bed a maid."
Stannis - "Knowing you she's like to stay that way."

"I am not without mercy!" Roared the man who was notoriously without mercy.

Spoiler

That's not including his comments about Janos Slynt and Gilly in Dance, and his flat out distate for Ramsay in the Winds sample chapter.

 

[Барбоса]

There are some hints of Stannis' twisted humour in the show but it has yet to burst forth as he has been too mired in planning and executing his attack on Kings Landing and then wallowing in his defeat.

 

[Miko]

I feel Stannis has been a little bit wasted with more than just his humour, but its been to the benefit of Tywin Lannister, so can I complain? I am glad they finally Humanised him in the shows though and used Shireen to do so, because they made him far too much of a wanker with the other things; His attitude to burning Gendy (Edric) in the books as opposed to the series.

His reaction to killing Renly in the books as opposed to the series.

His story of the Hawk, which I don't think has been mentioned in the series at all.

I believe all of those things have happened within the series timeline, yet all we see of Stannis really is "I am a massive cunt!" I was beginning to think the only characters allowed to be complex in the series had to have the last name of Lannister.

Spoiler

The more I read the books, the more Stannis might actually be my favourite character and (because of lack of competition and Aegon most likely being a Blackfyre, not to mention a little shit) favourite candidate for King. I at least hope he makes it to the end and burns the Boltons before being killed off or turned into the champion of the Others or whatever fate awaits him. I guess its the Davos effect, only on me the reader, the loyalty grows slowly but once it is there it is hard to remove it.

 

[Барбоса]

Stannis definitely is a complex character. One moment he is burning anyone that might aide his cause, the next he is demonstrating an ethical compass that Ned Stark would have been proud of.

In a way, it reflects horrendously badly on him for in a way it makes him seem manipulated, particularly as he seems to sway the direction of whatever person he talked to last - Melisandre/Selyse or Davos/Shireen.

However, he is really caught in a difficult position with his main and dominating characteristic - a staunch traditionalist - has him being pulled in two different directions at the same time. Melisandre encouraging him to do whatever it takes to claim what tradition says is his rightful place as king, while Davos urges him to remain true to the traditional values he has lived his life by up until now.

Of course, the question remains as to who does he need to listen to for the sake of the Seven Kingdoms rather than which is good and which is evil.

 

[Miko]

Exactly right, he is manipulated. Melisandre has overcome all of his defenses and convinced him to do all of those horrible things because if he doesn't win, everything with warm blood will be wiped out, ironically that should mean Stannis is safe. On the other hand, I think Stannis is stronger than he appears, I think Davos is Stannis' way of fighting back because Davos with his titles and lordship on one hand and shortened fingers on the other reminds Stannis who he is. Which is why 9 times out of 10 (in the books) Davos wins out when he puts his foot down.

As you say though, listening to the more morally correct characters may be detrimental to his overall cause.

When we see Stannis away from both Davos and Melisandre I think we get a glimpse of the real man, and that man is everything Tywin Lannister and Ned Stark promised and more.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Mark Gatiss has been signed up for season 4. Wouldn't mind seeing him as a Greyjoy but I'm sure he'll be great whichever role he takes.

 

[Барбоса]

Strikes me more of a Mace Tyrell, although he is not fat enough.

Doesn't look chiselled/griselled enough to be either Victarion or Euron, although Aeron Damphair might be a possibility.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Yes I think Damphair is a possibility for him. I initially thought that the priest who blessed Theon when he came back to Pyke was Damphair and did fit the description pretty well. I think they even got some seaweed in his hair!

Gatiss could suit the role of someone who is completely bleak or even someone who is fighting to be optimistic. I think that kinda sums up 95% of the characters viewpoints at this stage though

 

[Miko]

After watching Sherlock I feel Mark Gatiss's ability to play seemingly harmless but ultimately infinitely dangerous (or perhaps the other way around) authority figures shouldn't be wasted. So here's to him playing a staunch plodder like Kevan Lannister. Well, they haven't miscast yet, and he would make a good Kevan.

 

[Барбоса]

I like that there are numerous choices that would make sense.

So he is good at playing a harmless yet dangerous/Dangerous yet harmless type?

Aside from the names already mentioned (Greyjoys or Mace Tyrell), it could describe Kevan Lannister but I don't think he needs recast, especially when he will be doing virtually nothing for the next 2 or 3 series. It could describe any of the local leaders that Dani meets after leaving Yunkai, although he is too Westerosi looking rather than Essene for that. But I think if he is to play such a harmless yet dangerous type, then perhaps the best Westerosi character for that would be Prince Doran Martell, although I am not sure he will appear in season 4 (unless my idea of a brief scene of the Martells talking about their quest for vengeance in a meeting before Oberyn leaves for Kings Landing was to happen).

Is there anything to be gleaned from the last instance of not announcing the character name of a cast actor - Iwan Rheon as "boy" rather than Ramsay Snow? Not many other characters need their identity hidden though and I think he is too recognisable an actor to be stuck under the hood of Coldhands. A leadership role in the Night's Watch for the coming Battle of Castle Black? Bowen Marsh, Donal Noye or the like?

 

[Miko]

Even though he'd do a good job he would be wasted as Kevan and I forgot that we'd already seen him in season 1 anyway, good shout there.

Another role he is good at is the supremely arrogant idiot and in that he fits in perfectly with Mace Tyrell, he doesn't look nearly Mediterranean enough to play anyone related to Oberyn which is a shame as he would be a good Doran. Bowen Marsh would be... Kind of inspired actually.

EDIT - You know what? I am not even going to guess, the only person I can think of that he wouldn't be well cast as is Victarion.

 

[Барбоса]

Another role he is good at is the supremely arrogant idiot and in that he fits in perfectly with Mace Tyrell,

As a character, he sounds like he would play be perfect for Mace Tyrell. Unfortunately, he is nowhere near fat enough to play Lord Oaf. I saw an excellent suggestion of Brendan Gleeson for the High Marshall of the Reach if he could mask his accent.

Spoiler

he doesn't look nearly Mediterranean enough to play anyone related to Oberyn which is a shame as he would be a good Doran.

Personally, I do not view the Martells as "Mediterranean" racially, rather just tanned. While the Sand Snakes and Ariannne look somewhat exotic, that is to do with their mothers rather than their Martell fathers.

Bowen Marsh would be... Kind of inspired actually.

I could see him as part of the Watch, although that would mean a bit-part player.

EDIT - You know what? I am not even going to guess, the only person I can think of that he wouldn't be well cast as is Victarion.

Can't see him as Euron Greyjoy either myself. He doesn't have that swashbuckling look to him that the Crow's Eye needs. Aside from Aeron, the only Ironborn I see him being would be Rodrik Harlaw.

 

[Miko]

When does that new High Septon come into it?