Why, WWE, Why???

It's not about like or dislike. It's been well-documented that Warrior pissed on the business when he held Vince up for money in the past prior to Summerslam. Vince swallowed his pride and let the Warrior come back from this, only to get fucked again. So Vince put him on the payroll a THIRD time only to have him borderline-injure Triple H (prior to Trips have any influence).



Welcome to how a company does business. The Warrior never respected the business, so the business never respected him. They made their money off him and tossed him away because he DESERVED it.



He bashed his legends because they went on live television and, for the sake of making money for THEMSELVES, bashed the WWE to kingdom come. They talked shit about Vince on the programming at all times just to get WWE viewers to flip the channel to Nitro. So, Vince retaliated.

Your views are so one-sided. You're dismissing the other side of the spectrum just to make it look like you have a point. If you're going to debate with me, make sure your points include ALL information, otherwise trust me... you don't want any of this.

It's funny. All of your talking points came directly from the Warrior DVD.

(original) The Warrior never respected the business, so the business never respected him.

*Instead of relaying lines from the DVD, why don't you give me some specific details on how he disrespected the industry?

(original) It's been well-documented that Warrior pissed on the business when he held Vince up for money in the past prior to Summerslam.

*That is only one side of the story, which conveniently enough came from the Warrior DVD. Warrior states that he wasn't paid his bonus from Wrestlemania VII so he was trying to get that before going out. Who knows who's right, but it is foolish to take either side of their stories as gospel.

(original) He bashed his legends because they went on live television and, for the sake of making money for THEMSELVES, bashed the WWE to kingdom come. They talked shit about Vince on the programming at all times just to get WWE viewers to flip the channel to Nitro. So, Vince retaliated.

*Come on now. No rewriting history. "Nacho Man" and "Huckster" were well before the MNW heated up.

See all of your points come directly from WWE produced DVDs. Suuuure, WWE would never tell a lie, now would they? Come on dude, stop being such a fan boy.

(original) Your views are so one-sided. You're dismissing the other side of the spectrum just to make it look like you have a point. If you're going to debate with me, make sure your points include ALL information, otherwise trust me... you don't want any of this.

*The irony of that whole paragraph is that you are doing the exact thing that you are accusing me of. Too funny!

Well, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me, so I am just going to let this drop. So just go on an worship your Vince McMahon action figure and go study up on your "McMahonism" and praise WWE for all of their loyalty an respect for their past.
 
I don't see the problem with legends being on RAW every now and then. It's mainly for the adults that have watched wrestling their whole lives and gives a chance for the younger fan to look up their history so they can have some knowledge about them. If people have a problem with that, then I don't know what's wrong.
 
I personally enjoy seeing the likes of Dusty Rhodes, IRS, and Rowdy Roddy Piper on occasion because they all can cut a pretty good promo, and were always at least decent in the ring in their day. Like some people said before me, Dusty and IRS have kids involved with the WWE right now, so its only natural for them to be involved somehow. And isn't Dusty a road agent or something for the WWE?
 
Lets not forget that some of these older guys didn't make shit for money back when they wrestled, and Vince throwing these guys a bone every once in a while is one of the more respectable things he does.
 
It's funny. All of your talking points came directly from the Warrior DVD.

The DVD, Wikipedia, and just about every other kind of reference out there. Why? Because it's the TRUTH.

Instead of relaying lines from the DVD, why don't you give me some specific details on how he disrespected the industry?

Actually, that line was a D-Man original.

You want examples? Here goes:

1. Extorting money from Vince prior to a live PPV event
2. Carelessness in the ring and injuring opponents legitimately
3. Insubordination towards his peers and superiors
4. Refusal to job in matches
5. Backstage unprofessionalism

Should I go on?

That is only one side of the story, which conveniently enough came from the Warrior DVD.

And every other source that covers pro-wrestling, but who's counting.

Warrior states that he wasn't paid his bonus from Wrestlemania VII so he was trying to get that before going out. Who knows who's right, but it is foolish to take either side of their stories as gospel.

I'd rather go with multiple, reputable sources instead of Warrior's mouth.

Come on now. No rewriting history. "Nacho Man" and "Huckster" were well before the MNW heated up.

The MNW's started in 1995 and those vignettes started in 1996 after WCW publicized their stealing of WWE talent. No history is RE-written, it was merely written. No matter what you say here, it cannot be changed.

See all of your points come directly from WWE produced DVDs. Suuuure, WWE would never tell a lie, now would they? Come on dude, stop being such a fan boy.

My points come from documenting history. Denial is a dirty word, but I don't mind throwing it at you here since you're clearly 100% wrong.

The irony of that whole paragraph is that you are doing the exact thing that you are accusing me of. Too funny!

Really? What did I leave out? PLEASE enlighten me.

Well, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me, so I am just going to let this drop. So just go on an worship your Vince McMahon action figure and go study up on your "McMahonism" and praise WWE for all of their loyalty an respect for their past.

Or, you could let it drop because you don't have a leg to stand on. But continue to use immature phrasing based on WWE catchphrases in order to make yourself sound like you had a strong closing statement :rolleyes:
 
They do it to throw a bone to the adults. While the audience is mainly children, the adults watch with them. The guys that come out like IRS and Piper and Rhodes are there to give the parents something to be interested in. To us, they're still cool because they came from a time when wrestling was better and it makes us smile a bit. They're legends and seeing them with guys like the young Dibiase makes them seem more credible as well. It helps everyone.

The audience is not mainly children.

The guys are legends and deserve to have a bone thrown their way every once in a while. They helped pave the way for the younger guys. At least they don't have control and book themselves on TV every week.
 
Dude, get over yourself. We can go on and on all day with this topic. I have said my peace earlier in the discussion board, and I really have more important things to do than debate this with you. Unlike you, I don't need to have the last word to try to prove my point. So go ahead and try to prove yourself by quoting me and get the last word. Go get 'em fanboy!


It's not about being a fanboy. It's about being right. The fact that you tucked your tail between your legs after you had been proven wrong makes no nevermind. The fact that you use lines like "Unlike you, I don't need to have the last word to try to prove my point." makes you a moron. The fact that you call him a fanboy makes you a hypocrite to boot. No. He doesn't have to get over himself. You have to get over yourself and accept that you were dead wrong here.

I have said my peace earlier in the discussion board, and I really have more important things to do than debate this with you.

And, you are a liar. You just have nothing else to offer so you make excuses. lol


Also, IRS and Dusty are still far more entertaining that DiBiase Jr, The Miz, and most of the WWE roster.
 
Why do WWE insist on having people like IRS, or Roddy Piper, or Dusty Rhodes make appearances on Raw?

WWE is a PG product, trying to attract kids. They will have no idea who these people are. Their time was too long ago and these wrestlers do not have a big enough legacy to get children interested in wrestling history.

Are you insane? Dusty Rhodes and Roddy Piper don't have a "Big Enough" legacy? One of the GREATEST baby faces and one of the GREATEST heels of all time don't have a big enough legacy? Are you insane? Did you even think about what you were saying before you typed it? That's like saying that SCSA, The Rock and Triple H were just "Some dudes who used to wrestle, no big deal". Come on now, you do know that there were more people wrestling in the 80's outside of Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, and Rick Flair, right?
 
Are you insane? Dusty Rhodes and Roddy Piper don't have a "Big Enough" legacy? One of the GREATEST baby faces and one of the GREATEST heels of all time don't have a big enough legacy? Are you insane? Did you even think about what you were saying before you typed it? That's like saying that SCSA, The Rock and Triple H were just "Some dudes who used to wrestle, no big deal". Come on now, you do know that there were more people wrestling in the 80's outside of Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, and Rick Flair, right?

Yes, I am insane.

This still doesn't change the fact that neither Dusty or Piper were NEVER WWE champion. They didn't ever win a Royal Rumble, Or a KoTR. They didn't have any significant run with any title.

They had decent personalities, could cut promos and had some decent matches, can't deny that.

However, having them on Raw now is like having Santino, Chavo or William Regal making appearances in 20 years.
 
D-Man actually proved my point! If the WWE put out the "Self-Destruction" DVD, to punish the Warrior for being so bad to the industry, then why would they plan to put out a DVD to bash Bret Hart?

At first, the Warrior DVD was suppose to be a traditional "best of" 2 disc DVD set showing the highlights of his career. It wasn't until Warrior decided to not sign the contract with Vince did they decide to go the "Self-Destruction" route. "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" (Which I am still waiting for D-Man to concede that he was wrong like he said he would) would have been released if it weren't for Bret Hart reluctantly signing the legends deal.

Now from that specific example, can you please explain to me how threatening Bret Hart, who gave so much to the wrestling industry, with a degrading DVD release is a sign of "Respect" from the company?
 
D-Man actually proved my point! If the WWE put out the "Self-Destruction" DVD, to punish the Warrior for being so bad to the industry, then why would they plan to put out a DVD to bash Bret Hart?

At first, the Warrior DVD was suppose to be a traditional "best of" 2 disc DVD set showing the highlights of his career. It wasn't until Warrior decided to not sign the contract with Vince did they decide to go the "Self-Destruction" route. "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" (Which I am still waiting for D-Man to concede that he was wrong like he said he would) would have been released if it weren't for Bret Hart reluctantly signing the legends deal.

Now from that specific example, can you please explain to me how threatening Bret Hart, who gave so much to the wrestling industry, with a degrading DVD release is a sign of "Respect" from the company?

Ok, I'll concede that the process of putting out a degrading DVD for Bret Hart was in the works. After all, you proved it.

But here's the thing - If you had a former (very popular) employee of yours traveling the world and constantly bashing and berating your company, wouldn't you try and seek vengeance if you extended an olive branch only to have it spit on by the other party involved? Well, the WWE had two of them.... Bret Hart and the Warrior.

The Warrior traveled all around the world and constantly bashed Vince and the WWE product when he, in fact, was at fault for all of the wrong doing that occurred during his tenure in the WWE that lead to his MULTIPLE firings. Bret Hart jumped ship to WWE and refused to job out to HBK for his WWE title when this had always been a "time honored tradition" to be done by all parties leaving the company while holding a title. Their job was to drop the title, which allowed a smooth transition of both the title being pushed onto another deserving star and to let the former employee move onto their new company. Bret refused to do this (because it was to take place in his home country of Canada... oh, the shame), so Vince retaliated with the Montreal Screwjob. In turn, Bret traveled the world for years and years and did his best to give the WWE a bad name as a result of his poor decision.

All of this being said, do you expect Vince to sit back and kiss Bret's ass? I don't think so. Anyone that was a former employee of the WWE and had bashed their company without good reason was shunned for even better reason.

In addition, the WWE had reached out to MULTIPLE legends in the past to honor them in their version of the Hall of Fame, even if the bad blood still existed. Verne Gagne, Billy Graham, Paul Orndorf... (just to name a few) were severely anti-WWE for one reason or the next. But Vince still RESPECTED history enough to give them the highest honor due to them.

After all of the firings, bad blood, and bullshit, Vince always found a soft spot in his heart to rehire these guys for one reason or the next. Sure, money was a big factor. But respect played an even bigger factor. Vince knows who built his company in terms of talent and drawing power and always payed them homage.

So, through all of the garbage and every excuse you could think of, it's still a fact that Vince RESPECTS the legacy of his wrestlers, no matter what.

PS - I guess I should also mention that the Warrior was asked to be the main inductee into the 2010 Hall of Fame at this past Wrestlemania but refused, even AFTER all of the bullshit that you keep bringing up. But I guess Vince was doing it for money, right? Especially since the HOF never draws more than a 1.5 in ratings each year. :disappointed:

Care to try again? I'm having fun owning you in this debate.
 
Yes, I am insane.

This still doesn't change the fact that neither Dusty or Piper were NEVER WWE champion. They didn't ever win a Royal Rumble, Or a KoTR. They didn't have any significant run with any title.

They had decent personalities, could cut promos and had some decent matches, can't deny that.

However, having them on Raw now is like having Santino, Chavo or William Regal making appearances in 20 years.

So Dusty and Piper can't be on RAW because they never were champion? You can have a legacy without being champion. Rhodes, Piper, and DiBiase are proof of that. They're still beloved by fans anywhere and an appearance by them is a treat for the older fans. They're not taking any time away from anybody so I fail to see what the problem is.
 
I don't have a problem with the older guys making appearances once in a while. It can be fun. The problem I have is it's always the same guys. Anytime there is a legends segment we get Rhodes, Piper, IRS, Slaughter, and Steamboat. Of course some of these guys work backstage so it's easy for them to appear on camera at any given time. It would be fun to see random appearances by some other guys for a change. I'm not looking for a big name like Randy Savage or The Rock. How about Rick the Model Martel giving fashion tips to Zack Ryder, or Nikolia Volkoff singing the Russian national anthem with Vladimir Kozlov? Rhodes, Piper, and IRS are fine, but they aren't a surprise.
 
Ok, I'll concede that the process of putting out a degrading DVD for Bret Hart was in the works. After all, you proved it.

But here's the thing - If you had a former (very popular) employee of yours traveling the world and constantly bashing and berating your company, wouldn't you try and seek vengeance if you extended an olive branch only to have it spit on by the other party involved? Well, the WWE had two of them.... Bret Hart and the Warrior.

The Warrior traveled all around the world and constantly bashed Vince and the WWE product when he, in fact, was at fault for all of the wrong doing that occurred during his tenure in the WWE that lead to his MULTIPLE firings. Bret Hart jumped ship to WWE and refused to job out to HBK for his WWE title when this had always been a "time honored tradition" to be done by all parties leaving the company while holding a title. Their job was to drop the title, which allowed a smooth transition of both the title being pushed onto another deserving star and to let the former employee move onto their new company. Bret refused to do this (because it was to take place in his home country of Canada... oh, the shame), so Vince retaliated with the Montreal Screwjob. In turn, Bret traveled the world for years and years and did his best to give the WWE a bad name as a result of his poor decision.

All of this being said, do you expect Vince to sit back and kiss Bret's ass? I don't think so. Anyone that was a former employee of the WWE and had bashed their company without good reason was shunned for even better reason.

In addition, the WWE had reached out to MULTIPLE legends in the past to honor them in their version of the Hall of Fame, even if the bad blood still existed. Verne Gagne, Billy Graham, Paul Orndorf... (just to name a few) were severely anti-WWE for one reason or the next. But Vince still RESPECTED history enough to give them the highest honor due to them.

After all of the firings, bad blood, and bullshit, Vince always found a soft spot in his heart to rehire these guys for one reason or the next. Sure, money was a big factor. But respect played an even bigger factor. Vince knows who built his company in terms of talent and drawing power and always payed them homage.

So, through all of the garbage and every excuse you could think of, it's still a fact that Vince RESPECTS the legacy of his wrestlers, no matter what.

PS - I guess I should also mention that the Warrior was asked to be the main inductee into the 2010 Hall of Fame at this past Wrestlemania but refused, even AFTER all of the bullshit that you keep bringing up. But I guess Vince was doing it for money, right? Especially since the HOF never draws more than a 1.5 in ratings each year. :disappointed:

Care to try again? I'm having fun owning you in this debate.

You are conveniently leaving out a few facts. According to Bret Hart's book, he and Vince made up over the Montreal incident in June 2002 when Vince called Bret after his stroke. The proposed "Screwed" DVD was not in retaliation to Montreal anymore. Originally planned as a tribute DVD, Bret didn't want anything to do with it, so it was then changed to "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story". "Screwed" was planned because Bret wouldn't sign the legends deal. That's fact! Now since your screwjob theory has been de-bunked, can you explain how that is RESPECT? No matter how you put a spin on it, there is no way you can say that how they treated Bret regarding the DVD was respectful. (It's funny how you defend WWE tooth and nail on this topic considering you didn't have any clue about the "Screwed" DVD until today, and you still will defend them at all costs)

As far as the Hall of Fame goes, if they really respected the Warrior and wanted to put him into their Hall of Fame, why wouldn't they put him in even if he didn't want to show up to accept the award? You don't need permission to honor someone. And the funny thing is, why would they even want to put someone into their "Hall of Fame" when they spent years bashing the man and putting out a DVD insulting him? It's their logic of respecting someone only if it benefits you. That time, their years of "respect" bit them in the ass.
 
Ive been watching wrestling since 98 and couldnt really care less about the legends from before that era. In my eyes the legends are Stonecold, The rock, HHH, Shawn micheals, Undertaker and many more. Not the ones I had never seen before snip its on tv.

They get hardly any crowd reaction and are stale.
 
They get hardly any crowd reaction and are stale.

Oh so true, cause Roddy Piper, Mean Gene and Dusty Rhodes got zero crowd reaction and was overall BORING this week, I completely agree......

The legends as I would like to call them (obviously you don't) aren't getting stale, because they're not around often enough to get stale, and they get a damn decent crowd reaction, did you watch RAW this week? heard the cheering through-out the majority of his appearance on camera ? obviously not.

Same goes for Mean Gene, he got a great reaction, any of the legends that people remember will get a reaction, some less than others, but nonetheless they get a reaction, and saying otherwise would be false.
 
I Love seeing the older wrestlers that I use to watch growing making "guest appearances." I think it's especially important today to have guys like Rowdy Roddy Piper and Dusty Rhodes to make appearences on Raw or Smackdown. The WWE is filled with so many young superstars that I think the interactions the veterans and rookies have together is a good rub. A lot of superstars need a good rub.

Let me try to explain what I'm saying. When Randy Orton had the Legend Killer gimmick it would have made no sense if he didn't have guys like Dusty Rhodes or Mick Foley around to wrestle. I know at this time more "Legends," or "Icons," were around at this time like RVD, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair and Stone Cold Steve Austin that helped. But if you remember when Mick Foley came back he had a phenomenal fued with Randy Orton and gave him probably one of his greatest matches at Backlash 2004. Randy Orton also fueded with Dusty Rhodes and had a Bull Rope Match. It helped Randy Orton get over. Another Example is with Batista. In 2005 he had a match at Taboo Tuesday with The Coach w/ Vader and Goldust. This helped Batista get over with a good rub. I know it was meant for Stone Cold but Batista took his place and benefited.

I also think about Bret Hart. Guys like John Cena and Batista once again benefited and got a rub off of Bret Hart by being involved in some way with the Mcmahon/Hart fued. Now The Hart Dynasty is getting the rub from Brett when he took them under his wing and mentored them.

Sometimes the younger guys need a rub and IMO who's better than the legends such as Brett Hart, Rowdy Piper, and Dusty Rhodes to give it to them.
 
You missed out mean gean...he made an appearance...

I actually like it when they show up...its kinda entertaining and gives you the old WWF feeling that we don't have anymore...They don't take much time and maybe its not good for the kids, but for the odler audience, it gets them into the show...
 
yeh man, most "kids" dont know who the "older generation" of the wrestlers, most kids know about Hulk Hogan, The Rock and Ric Flair, etc, but not people like, Doink, Earthquake ect ect.... kids want more younger people, newer generation like...
 
:disappointed:

Well, now that I'm back from vacation, I can respond to this horrific dribble...

You are conveniently leaving out a few facts. According to Bret Hart's book, he and Vince made up over the Montreal incident in June 2002 when Vince called Bret after his stroke. The proposed "Screwed" DVD was not in retaliation to Montreal anymore. Originally planned as a tribute DVD, Bret didn't want anything to do with it, so it was then changed to "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story". "Screwed" was planned because Bret wouldn't sign the legends deal. That's fact! Now since your screwjob theory has been de-bunked, can you explain how that is RESPECT? No matter how you put a spin on it, there is no way you can say that how they treated Bret regarding the DVD was respectful. (It's funny how you defend WWE tooth and nail on this topic considering you didn't have any clue about the "Screwed" DVD until today, and you still will defend them at all costs)

The "Screwed" DVD was indeed retaliation for Bret's mannerisms after the MSJ occurred. It had very little to do with him signing a Legends deal with the WWE. If anything, and after all that transpired between Bret and Vince, just like he always does with released wrestlers, Vince stretched out an olive branch to Bret. Considering the fact that the MSJ was a result of Bret's unprofessionalism, if Bret did not reconcile with Vince, he would have deserved to have a DVD similar to that of the Warrior's.

It's funny how you say that your little blurb was "fact" when it came out of Bret's mouth while ALL other sources cite the events the way that I explained them. I love how you side with the wrestlers just because they themselves said all of these things about their past. Of COURSE they're not going to incriminate themselves and agree with the real side of the story, considering the fact that it makes them look bad in the long run. You pass it off as fact just because it came out of their mouths when the only fact is that it was stated in their autobiographies that they wrote themselves.

Therefore, back on subject, Vince respected Bret so much that he was willing to let the past go, come to a deal, and move on with Bret in an amicable way that would have kept their respect in tact, as well as made them both money since Bret received royalties from all of the sales. You need to get out of that one-dimensional way of thinking, man...

As far as the Hall of Fame goes, if they really respected the Warrior and wanted to put him into their Hall of Fame, why wouldn't they put him in even if he didn't want to show up to accept the award? You don't need permission to honor someone. And the funny thing is, why would they even want to put someone into their "Hall of Fame" when they spent years bashing the man and putting out a DVD insulting him? It's their logic of respecting someone only if it benefits you. That time, their years of "respect" bit them in the ass.

Man, you're dense...

They were hoping Warrior would show up to the ceremony, you moron. They wanted the HoF to be centered around him, wanted him to show up, wanted him to accept the award, and wanted him to make a speech, while saying his peace one last time and putting the issues between him and the WWE to rest.

And you ask why they would put someone in the HoF that they bashed in the past? Use your brain... they obviously wanted to reconcile because they RESPECTED Warrior's contribution to pro-wrestling. They understood that the past was the past and they needed to move on.

Not everyone holds grudges forever. Maybe you should let go of this one and fade away in this debate... you're losing badly.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing Warrior in the HoF. And D-Man you are exactly right. They had the most respect for him and Bret. It's all about moving on. They showed that they wanted to make the past, the past and forget about it. If you dwell on the past, you get nowhere.
 
OMG How many times have we heard that before... Do you know I also worked with the WWE. 8 years ago. I worked in the Australian devision. I'm responsible for the man they call Cena...

They do it because it helps the kids understand the history. Every kid that watches WWE with their parents would ask them who they liked or watched as a kid. It also helps them sell dvds and the other stuff people have already mentioned in this thread.
 
I would rather watch IRS, Dean Malenko and Arn Anderson have it out with the NXT boys any day of the week as opposed to watching The Great Khali tag up with Hornswaggle. Same goes for anything dealing with a guest host.

When legends come in, they should be given something more to do, I agree. But in all honesty, why does this bother ANY of you? Those guys have such short segments and take up so little television time, it's hard for me to believe any reasonable fan would have a complaint.

It makes you sound like a whiny, childish fanboy. They add nothing to the show? I completely disagree. Seeing Dean Malenko, Arn Anderson, Piper, etc. is refreshing for an old school fan like myself. It shows me the WWE gives a shit about it's former employees.

I think the real problem lies with some of you. Some of you didn't watch wrestling while these guys were on tv, and that's fine. I don't think it takes an old-school fan to be a true fan. But, do not piss and moan about seeing older guys just because you don't know who they are. And even worse, don't try and cover up not knowing them with some bullshit about them adding nothing to the show. For some, they add something to the show. For others, they don't. Please, do not assume a majority of fans do not want to see these guys, it makes you sound like a moron.
 
There is nothing wrong with the odd legend comig around every few months, what your saying, is that WWE should just forget about Every legend, I mean, yes, the WWE is PG, wo the fuck cares, it is also partly aimed at adults aswell. Also, the Legends also help out the current wrestlers aswell, they help backstage, and they help with advice, and they offer help to the superstars, so yes, WWE should have legends on the show
 
Yes, I am insane.

This still doesn't change the fact that neither Dusty or Piper were NEVER WWE champion. They didn't ever win a Royal Rumble, Or a KoTR. They didn't have any significant run with any title.

They had decent personalities, could cut promos and had some decent matches, can't deny that.

However, having them on Raw now is like having Santino, Chavo or William Regal making appearances in 20 years.


Santino & Chavo aren't even in the same league as Rhoades of Piper partner. That's just the honest to goodness truth. I can't believe you would even attempt to put that out there like that. Really honestly should think about what you are writing before you push the "Post" button my friend.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,851
Messages
3,300,884
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top